Want to lose weight & treatment for diabetes

Other discussions not related to the Permanent Portfolio

Moderator: Global Moderator

WiseOne
Executive Member
Executive Member
Posts: 2692
Joined: Wed Feb 16, 2022 11:08 am

Re: Want to lose weight & treatment for diabetes

Post by WiseOne » Tue Jul 06, 2021 6:09 pm

Blood pressure, right. Essential hypertension is part of metabolic syndrome, and is therefore covered under "step 1: Fix your metabolic syndrome."

Guess how much evidence there is that lowering blood pressure impacts health outcomes: NONE. It's a marker for disease risk, but that doesn't have to mean that it's a therapeutic target.

Example: Let's say you smoke a lot of cigarettes and in consequence you have yellow fingers. The yellow fingers are therefore a marker of disease risk. Would scrubbing your fingers clean lower that risk? Exercise left to the reader.

Caveat: there are rare secondary causes of hypertension, which can and should be treated (eg carcinoid syndrome and other stuff you've never heard of). In these cases though, the hypertension is typically very high and not asymptomatic.
User avatar
vnatale
Executive Member
Executive Member
Posts: 9423
Joined: Fri Apr 12, 2019 8:56 pm
Location: Massachusetts
Contact:

Re: Coronavirus General Discussion

Post by vnatale » Tue Jul 06, 2021 8:50 pm

WiseOne wrote:
Tue Jul 06, 2021 1:49 pm



Would love for people to add to this list (if any additions are needed) so we can come up with our very own DIY Primary Care Guide!


Doing regular free weight exercising (barbells and NOT dumb bells!).

I just passed 10 years of consistently doing it and the quality of life enhancements continue.

I recently read somewhere that exercise has a greater effect on life than does diet (in no way minimizing also striving for a good diet...just emphasizing how effective exercise can be...).
Above provided by: Vinny, who always says: "I only regret that I have but one lap to give to my cats." AND "I'm a more-is-more person."
User avatar
vnatale
Executive Member
Executive Member
Posts: 9423
Joined: Fri Apr 12, 2019 8:56 pm
Location: Massachusetts
Contact:

Re: Want to lose weight & treatment for diabetes

Post by vnatale » Tue Jul 06, 2021 9:59 pm

Putting this here just for curiosity purposes and to compare what is being written in this topic...Hitler's diet.

Vinny


In 1936, when Morell became the Fiihrer's personal physician, Hitler was a rather strict vegetarian. Like most physicians, Morell knew little about diets but put Hitler on a very restricted diet during the later war years. In addition to the self-imposed vegetarian diet, Hitler was forbidden to eat bread and rolls with crusts, toast, hard cheeses, cottage cheese, margarine, egg yolk, farina, most kinds of flour, oatmeal, beets, cauliflower, lentils, walnuts, lingonberries. In small quantities, he was permitted to eat graham bread, bacon, butter, lard, egg whites, buttermilk, heavy cream, macaroni noodles, green peas, hazelnuts, and cocoa. Without restriction were potatoes and other vegetables, with the restrictions listed above, and fruit juices as beverages. Hitler's diet certainly was not tasty,113 but its caloric supply was adequate.
Above provided by: Vinny, who always says: "I only regret that I have but one lap to give to my cats." AND "I'm a more-is-more person."
User avatar
Maddy
Executive Member
Executive Member
Posts: 1694
Joined: Sun Jun 21, 2015 8:43 am

Re: Coronavirus General Discussion

Post by Maddy » Wed Jul 07, 2021 5:13 pm

Good stuff.
Fingerstick blood glucose, as often as needed for home monitoring and to check for post-prandial blood sugar rises. If that happens, you ate something you need to not eat anymore.
WiseOne, you seem to be implying that you don't get any post-prandial rise in blood sugar. That's pretty amazing. As I recall, you've gone strict keto. So am I understanding correctly that you're pretty much flat-lined blood sugar-wise throughout the day?

Forgive me if I'm getting too personal, but would you care to share what your typical blood sugar range is?
User avatar
Mark Leavy
Executive Member
Executive Member
Posts: 1950
Joined: Thu Mar 01, 2012 10:20 pm
Location: US Citizen, Permanent Traveler

Back to the Weight and Diabetes thread

Post by Mark Leavy » Wed Jul 07, 2021 8:26 pm

Maddy wrote:
Wed Jul 07, 2021 5:13 pm
Good stuff.
Fingerstick blood glucose, as often as needed for home monitoring and to check for post-prandial blood sugar rises. If that happens, you ate something you need to not eat anymore.
WiseOne, you seem to be implying that you don't get any post-prandial rise in blood sugar. That's pretty amazing. As I recall, you've gone strict keto. So am I understanding correctly that you're pretty much flat-lined blood sugar-wise throughout the day?

Forgive me if I'm getting too personal, but would you care to share what your typical blood sugar range is?
I'm not WiseOne and have zero credibility. I'm also curious. WiseOne and Kriegs are the gold standard.

From my experience, any meal that contains protein or carbs will produce a blood sugar spike. No way around it. Obviously, more with carbs, but protein will also give a spike - regardless of what you read on the internet.

I carried a glucose and ketone meter for a year or so - and got pretty good at predicting what my numbers would be. Nowadays, I just ask for an HbA1c reading whenever I get some blood work done. No schedule, I just tack it on to the tests. I like that number better than the daily/hourly glucose number - and from my experience it averages my 6 month blood sugar measurements very well.

Unfortunately, there is no easy way to test how your insulin response spikes after a meal. Which is what you really want to know. I've come down on the side of just watch your HbA1c every now and then. Cut out the chips if you need to, but if your numbers are good, keep doing what you are doing.
WiseOne
Executive Member
Executive Member
Posts: 2692
Joined: Wed Feb 16, 2022 11:08 am

Re: Want to lose weight & treatment for diabetes

Post by WiseOne » Thu Jul 08, 2021 8:59 am

Normal fasting (pre-meal) blood glucose should be no more than 100 mg/dl. After a meal it does rise a bit - but if you see a number in excess of 140 mg/dl, that's too high. That's what I meant by "blood sugar spike". There's no set value because high blood sugars after a meal are so common they're considered normal - which they are not! I prefer to keep my post-prandial readings below 120, in fact.

If you see spikes like that after eating a high protein meal, you're eating too much protein and not enough fat. It's very hard to get enough fat in your diet especially if you eat a lot of your meals at restaurants. Those meals will be fat-restricted and the fat that's present will mostly be in the form of industrial seed oils. Badness. Mark you might consider asking for melted butter with your meals to help that situation. Make sure they don't give you margarine though.

Agree about the insulin....that can spike even if your blood sugars stay flat. But if your blood sugars spike, you know for certain that your insulin has gone off the scale, and can't deal with the mess you just ate.
User avatar
Maddy
Executive Member
Executive Member
Posts: 1694
Joined: Sun Jun 21, 2015 8:43 am

Re: Want to lose weight & treatment for diabetes

Post by Maddy » Thu Jul 08, 2021 9:12 am

Dusted off the ol' glucometer this morning. You guys have me pumped to do this.
User avatar
vnatale
Executive Member
Executive Member
Posts: 9423
Joined: Fri Apr 12, 2019 8:56 pm
Location: Massachusetts
Contact:

Re: Want to lose weight & treatment for diabetes

Post by vnatale » Thu Jul 08, 2021 9:23 am

Regarding getting "enough fat"....

Does the fat in peanut butter count?


I am looking at my one pound jar of Teddie Super Chunky Unsalted Peanut Butter.

It says that there are 14 servings per container and a serving size is 2 Tbsp (32g). Calories per serving 190.

Each serving is:

Total Fat 16g (Saturated 2.5g)
Total Carbohydrates 7g
Protein 8g

Since it is fairly often I can eat half the jar in one day...on those days I am consuming (from this peanut butter alone)...

Fat - 125g
Carbohydrates - 49g
Protein - 56g

Total calories - 1,330

I weighed 144.3 this morning.

If one is supposed to consume 0.5 g of protein per pound of body weight then I'm almost there from the peanut butter alone.

Have no idea how the fat consumption ranks (though from information on the jar it'd be 141% Daily Value for a 2,000 daily calorie diet)
Above provided by: Vinny, who always says: "I only regret that I have but one lap to give to my cats." AND "I'm a more-is-more person."
pp4me
Executive Member
Executive Member
Posts: 1190
Joined: Wed Apr 29, 2020 4:12 pm

Re: Want to lose weight & treatment for diabetes

Post by pp4me » Thu Jul 08, 2021 9:23 am

I heard one of the Youtubers I listen to talk about study in which they found just putting something sweet in your mouth causes an insulin spike, even if you spit it out and even if it was an artificial sweetener.

Must be a sort of pavlovian reaction.
User avatar
Maddy
Executive Member
Executive Member
Posts: 1694
Joined: Sun Jun 21, 2015 8:43 am

Re: Want to lose weight & treatment for diabetes

Post by Maddy » Thu Jul 08, 2021 9:46 am

A friend with Type 1 diabetes experiences blood sugar spikes when the weather is hot or when she's stressed. She's used an insulin pump for years, which she fine-tunes constantly (in addition to diet), so while her experience is anecdotal, I have a high degree of confidence in her observations.
WiseOne
Executive Member
Executive Member
Posts: 2692
Joined: Wed Feb 16, 2022 11:08 am

Re: Want to lose weight & treatment for diabetes

Post by WiseOne » Thu Jul 08, 2021 10:22 am

Interesting, Maddy.

Stress results in a lot of changes to body chemistry for sure. Like, cortisol production which will itself spike blood sugar. A type 1 diabetic is going to be super sensitive to this stuff because they don't make insulin - it's the opposite of type 2 diabetes, where the problem is too much insulin and a broken cell signaling mechanism.

Can't wait to hear about your results!!
User avatar
Cortopassi
Executive Member
Executive Member
Posts: 3338
Joined: Mon Feb 24, 2014 2:28 pm
Location: https://www.jwst.nasa.gov/content/webbL ... sWebb.html

Re: Want to lose weight & treatment for diabetes

Post by Cortopassi » Thu Jul 08, 2021 10:55 am

pp4me wrote:
Thu Jul 08, 2021 9:23 am
I heard one of the Youtubers I listen to talk about study in which they found just putting something sweet in your mouth causes an insulin spike, even if you spit it out and even if it was an artificial sweetener.

Must be a sort of pavlovian reaction.
Cephalic response

https://thefastingmethod.com/cephalic-p ... asting-18/
pp4me
Executive Member
Executive Member
Posts: 1190
Joined: Wed Apr 29, 2020 4:12 pm

Re: Want to lose weight & treatment for diabetes

Post by pp4me » Thu Jul 08, 2021 2:23 pm

I've known people in my life that experience hunger as fear. One of them was my first wife who would say "I'm so hungry I think I'm going to throw up" and you could see she was having a real panic attack. Needless to say she became what they call "morbidly obese" and I'm sure that would have killed her if it hadn't been for the cigarettes doing it first.

I've never experienced anything remotely like that even when I used to go on long fasts for religious reasons. I guess the closest I can relate is when I get the "munchies" which doesn't even happen that often.
User avatar
Kriegsspiel
Executive Member
Executive Member
Posts: 4052
Joined: Sun Sep 16, 2012 5:28 pm

Re: Want to lose weight & treatment for diabetes

Post by Kriegsspiel » Thu Jul 08, 2021 2:44 pm

pp4me wrote:
Thu Jul 08, 2021 2:23 pm
I've known people in my life that experience hunger as fear. One of them was my first wife who would say "I'm so hungry I think I'm going to throw up" and you could see she was having a real panic attack. Needless to say she became what they call "morbidly obese" and I'm sure that would have killed her if it hadn't been for the cigarettes doing it first.

I've never experienced anything remotely like that even when I used to go on long fasts for religious reasons. I guess the closest I can relate is when I get the "munchies" which doesn't even happen that often.
There was a long section in The Hungry Brain that talked about how people with defective leptin receptors* felt when they couldn't eat, and it was just like that. Maybe she developed the condition (if she had it) later in life, because those people become obese pretty much immediately. Unfortunately I don't have my notes on it, but it's a good book to read in its entirety.

* They feel like they're starving to death, even if obese, because their body isn't getting the signals (leptin) from their fat cells.
You there, Ephialtes. May you live forever.
User avatar
Cortopassi
Executive Member
Executive Member
Posts: 3338
Joined: Mon Feb 24, 2014 2:28 pm
Location: https://www.jwst.nasa.gov/content/webbL ... sWebb.html

Re: Want to lose weight & treatment for diabetes

Post by Cortopassi » Thu Jul 08, 2021 3:24 pm

pp4me wrote:
Thu Jul 08, 2021 2:23 pm
I guess the closest I can relate is when I get the "munchies" which doesn't even happen that often.
I've pretty much never felt "hungry" even on a 48 hour fast I recently tried.

I have gone from intermittent fasting (no breakfast) for the past number of years, to very often just dinner lately (I just don't bring lunch to work) without even batting an eye.

There has been no further weight loss, however, because I am pretty sure I make up most of the calories at dinner by eating more. I don't "feel" the need to eat more, I think it is psychological or something.

Food definitely tastes better when you eat fewer times/day!
User avatar
vnatale
Executive Member
Executive Member
Posts: 9423
Joined: Fri Apr 12, 2019 8:56 pm
Location: Massachusetts
Contact:

Re: Want to lose weight & treatment for diabetes

Post by vnatale » Thu Jul 08, 2021 3:30 pm

I've read that the brain is a huge user of glucose.

A friend told me that when you feel hungry it is a case of low blood sugar.

I can exercise in the morning and not feel hungry and not eat anything at all that day until early afternoon.

However, if I start my day doing intense brain work then I am more likely to feel "hungry".
Above provided by: Vinny, who always says: "I only regret that I have but one lap to give to my cats." AND "I'm a more-is-more person."
pp4me
Executive Member
Executive Member
Posts: 1190
Joined: Wed Apr 29, 2020 4:12 pm

Re: Want to lose weight & treatment for diabetes

Post by pp4me » Thu Jul 08, 2021 4:06 pm

vnatale wrote:
Thu Jul 08, 2021 3:30 pm
I've read that the brain is a huge user of glucose.

A friend told me that when you feel hungry it is a case of low blood sugar.

I can exercise in the morning and not feel hungry and not eat anything at all that day until early afternoon.

However, if I start my day doing intense brain work then I am more likely to feel "hungry".
I've also read that the brain needs cholesterol which is one of the reasons I stopped paying any attention to cholesterol numbers. I programmed computers for a living so I figured my body was making just the right amount it needed.
User avatar
Tortoise
Executive Member
Executive Member
Posts: 2751
Joined: Sat Nov 06, 2010 2:35 am

Re: Want to lose weight & treatment for diabetes

Post by Tortoise » Thu Jul 08, 2021 4:08 pm

The hunger impulse and its effect on the body seems to be a fascinating blend of psychology and biochemistry.

Like some of you here, I can go for the better part of a day without eating, and I do just fine. I initially feel hungry, but it goes away and then I feel okay.

My wife (normal body weight), on the other hand... holy crap. If she starts to feel hungry and doesn't get to eat right away, "hangry" is an understatement. She has to eat soon after she starts to feel hungry, or her mood becomes foul. Once she gets some food in her belly, though, her mood goes right back to normal.

Not sure why our reactions to hunger are so dramatically different.
User avatar
vnatale
Executive Member
Executive Member
Posts: 9423
Joined: Fri Apr 12, 2019 8:56 pm
Location: Massachusetts
Contact:

Re: Want to lose weight & treatment for diabetes

Post by vnatale » Thu Jul 08, 2021 4:20 pm

Tortoise wrote:
Thu Jul 08, 2021 4:08 pm

The hunger impulse and its effect on the body seems to be a fascinating blend of psychology and biochemistry.

Like some of you here, I can go for the better part of a day without eating, and I do just fine. I initially feel hungry, but it goes away and then I feel okay.

My wife (normal body weight), on the other hand... holy crap. If she starts to feel hungry and doesn't get to eat right away, "hangry" is an understatement. She has to eat soon after she starts to feel hungry, or her mood becomes foul. Once she gets some food in her belly, though, her mood goes right back to normal.

Not sure why our reactions to hunger are so dramatically different.


I seem to be most similar to your wife. Once it arrives...it does not go away until satiated in some manner...
Above provided by: Vinny, who always says: "I only regret that I have but one lap to give to my cats." AND "I'm a more-is-more person."
User avatar
vnatale
Executive Member
Executive Member
Posts: 9423
Joined: Fri Apr 12, 2019 8:56 pm
Location: Massachusetts
Contact:

Re: Want to lose weight & treatment for diabetes

Post by vnatale » Thu Jul 08, 2021 6:47 pm

Tortoise wrote:
Thu Jul 08, 2021 4:08 pm

The hunger impulse and its effect on the body seems to be a fascinating blend of psychology and biochemistry.

Like some of you here, I can go for the better part of a day without eating, and I do just fine. I initially feel hungry, but it goes away and then I feel okay.

My wife (normal body weight), on the other hand... holy crap. If she starts to feel hungry and doesn't get to eat right away, "hangry" is an understatement. She has to eat soon after she starts to feel hungry, or her mood becomes foul. Once she gets some food in her belly, though, her mood goes right back to normal.

Not sure why our reactions to hunger are so dramatically different.


From the same book I just wrote about elsewhere here is the potential danger to any of us if we are in court and the judge is "hungry"!!

"As revealing as they are, these studies, which involve tightly controlled experiments, almost certainly understate the magnitude of noise in the real world of criminal justice. Real-life judges are exposed to far more information than what the study participants received in the carefully specified vignettes of these experiments. Some of this additional information is relevant, of course, but there is also ample evidence that irrelevant information, in the form of small and seemingly random factors, can produce major differences in outcomes. For example, judges have been found more likely to grant parole at the beginning of the day or after a food break than immediately before such a break. If judges are hungry, they are tougher."
Above provided by: Vinny, who always says: "I only regret that I have but one lap to give to my cats." AND "I'm a more-is-more person."
User avatar
Dieter
Executive Member
Executive Member
Posts: 655
Joined: Sat Sep 01, 2012 10:51 am

Re: Coronavirus General Discussion

Post by Dieter » Thu Jul 08, 2021 8:21 pm

vnatale wrote:
Tue Jul 06, 2021 8:50 pm
WiseOne wrote:
Tue Jul 06, 2021 1:49 pm


Would love for people to add to this list (if any additions are needed) so we can come up with our very own DIY Primary Care Guide!
Doing regular free weight exercising (barbells and NOT dumb bells!).

I just passed 10 years of consistently doing it and the quality of life enhancements continue.

I recently read somewhere that exercise has a greater effect on life than does diet (in no way minimizing also striving for a good diet...just emphasizing how effective exercise can be...).
Why no Dumbbells? My goto (no room for barbells; I'm definitely NOT a heavy lifter, but trying to be more consistent about resistance training).

And, ever read Younger Next Year? Basically, occasional high intensity exercise helps reduce biological age.
User avatar
vnatale
Executive Member
Executive Member
Posts: 9423
Joined: Fri Apr 12, 2019 8:56 pm
Location: Massachusetts
Contact:

Re: Coronavirus General Discussion

Post by vnatale » Thu Jul 08, 2021 8:40 pm

Dieter wrote:
Thu Jul 08, 2021 8:21 pm

vnatale wrote:
Tue Jul 06, 2021 8:50 pm

WiseOne wrote:
Tue Jul 06, 2021 1:49 pm



Would love for people to add to this list (if any additions are needed) so we can come up with our very own DIY Primary Care Guide!


Doing regular free weight exercising (barbells and NOT dumb bells!).

I just passed 10 years of consistently doing it and the quality of life enhancements continue.

I recently read somewhere that exercise has a greater effect on life than does diet (in no way minimizing also striving for a good diet...just emphasizing how effective exercise can be...).


Why no Dumbbells? My goto (no room for barbells; I'm definitely NOT a heavy lifter, but trying to be more consistent about resistance training).

And, ever read Younger Next Year? Basically, occasional high intensity exercise helps reduce biological age.


Yes. I did read that one about ten years ago.

I do less than 30 minutes of cardio in the entire week. Yet at my age...when I'm on the basketball court...running bases in softball...you don't hear me huffing and puffing out of breath. I know it comes from the barbells.

And, why barbells and NOT dumbbells?

What in real life do you ever attempt with one hand / arm when the other one can help? Working out with barbells helps develop overall body coordination the same way you'd use your body parts in real life.

This article is a good one at explaining why barbells are the superior strength training to all other methods (though this article just compares it to machines)...

https://startingstrength.com/article/wh ... chines-txt

By the way...the woman pictured in the beginning of the article doing the deadlift who looks like she has way more muscles than me....appears to be she is doing a similar weight pound deadlift to me. Here 185 pounds while my tops (and finishing set) is 190 pounds.
Above provided by: Vinny, who always says: "I only regret that I have but one lap to give to my cats." AND "I'm a more-is-more person."
pp4me
Executive Member
Executive Member
Posts: 1190
Joined: Wed Apr 29, 2020 4:12 pm

Re: Want to lose weight & treatment for diabetes

Post by pp4me » Thu Jul 08, 2021 9:00 pm

Tortoise wrote:
Thu Jul 08, 2021 4:08 pm
The hunger impulse and its effect on the body seems to be a fascinating blend of psychology and biochemistry.
Based on my wife's experience with doctors I'm of the opinion that relegating obesity to the realm of psychology is simply a cop-out because they have no answers. One of my wife's doctors told me that he thought the simple answer to obesity was simply not to eat so much. I though to myself like, yeah, thanks you bastard like I didn't f***ing know that already, of course. Made me think of the Indian saying not to criticize someone until you've walked a mile in their sandals.

There is a Youtube of Peter Attia giving a Ted talk in which he was treating a woman who was obese and thought to himself the same thing, like this is all her fault and I should be treating other people more worthy of my attention. He actually had to hold back tears when he remembered it but now he is doing some interesting research on obesity.
User avatar
Xan
Administrator
Administrator
Posts: 4393
Joined: Tue Mar 13, 2012 1:51 pm

Re: Want to lose weight & treatment for diabetes

Post by Xan » Thu Jul 08, 2021 9:06 pm

pp4me wrote:
Thu Jul 08, 2021 9:00 pm
Made me think of the Indian saying not to criticize someone until you've walked a mile in their sandals.
I went looking for a reference for this and found this, which claims that it's actually from a poem by Mary T. Lathrap in 1895:
https://www.aaanativearts.com/walk-mile ... -moccasins
User avatar
Tortoise
Executive Member
Executive Member
Posts: 2751
Joined: Sat Nov 06, 2010 2:35 am

Re: Want to lose weight & treatment for diabetes

Post by Tortoise » Thu Jul 08, 2021 10:48 pm

pp4me wrote:
Thu Jul 08, 2021 9:00 pm
One of my wife's doctors told me that he thought the simple answer to obesity was simply not to eat so much. I though to myself like, yeah, thanks you bastard like I didn't f***ing know that already, of course.
Yeah, that’s kind of like telling a heroin addict that the simple answer to their addiction is simply not to do so much heroin.
Post Reply