Want to lose weight & treatment for diabetes

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Hal
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Want to lose weight & treatment for diabetes

Post by Hal » Sat Jun 12, 2021 5:57 pm

Found this talk from a Nephrologist to be very interesting.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-xULX7a6usQ
For those who don't have the time to listen, the attachment says it all.
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Re: Want to lose weight & treatment for diabetes

Post by WiseOne » Sat Jun 12, 2021 9:22 pm

Ketogenic diet.

The efficacy is something like 70% plus for getting diabetics off insulin. yes, it's been studied, and used all over the world. It qualifies as medicine's best kept secret, because I have no idea why any diabetic is still being told to eat lots of carbohydrates and sugar.

If you're on insulin or diabetes drugs it's best to do it under medical supervision, because medications will have to be managed carefully to avoid hypoglycemia episodes.
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Re: Want to lose weight & treatment for diabetes

Post by sweetbthescrivener » Sun Jun 13, 2021 12:13 pm

@WiseOne

I am curious about this ketogenic diet and am sure you have your facts in order but I am experiencing serious cognitive dissonance having in the past read and put into practice the Dean Ornish diet, and the keto diet appears to be the opposite of that.

My question is, has the work of Ornish been debunked, or is this just a different approach?

I just don't understand how the mainstream medical advice can change so drastically from low fat/high carb to high fat/low carb.

Thanks to anyone who can clear this up.
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Re: Want to lose weight & treatment for diabetes

Post by sweetbthescrivener » Sun Jun 13, 2021 1:05 pm

Okay, but not really addressing specifically where Ornish is wrong.

Here is Ornish's point in a nutshell:
While Dr. Ornish admits weight loss is possible on a ketogenic diet, he asks whether ‘you are mortgaging your health’ when doing so.

He says: “The answer is yes. When you look at the arteries of people on a keto diet, they tend to be more clogged, even though they may be losing weight.

“Weight loss is good but you can lose weight in lots of ways that aren’t good for you. Smoking cigarettes is an excellent way to lose weight, chemotherapy is a good way to lose weight, getting profoundly depressed is a good way to lose weight.

“I don’t recommend any of those approaches – you want an approach which promotes health.”

https://plantbasednews.org/lifestyle/wa ... enic-diet/


I am also thinking of the "China Study" which connects animal products to a lot of health problems.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_China_Study#Synopsis
The China Study examines the link between the consumption of animal products (including dairy) and chronic illnesses such as coronary heart disease, diabetes, breast cancer, prostate cancer, and bowel cancer.[4] The book is "loosely based"[5] on the China–Cornell–Oxford Project, a 20-year study which looked at mortality rates from cancer and other chronic diseases from 1973 to 1975 in 65 counties in China, and correlated this data with 1983–84 dietary surveys and blood work from 100 people in each county.

The authors conclude that people who eat a predominantly whole-food, vegan diet—avoiding animal products as a source of nutrition, including beef, pork, poultry, fish, eggs, cheese, and milk, and reducing their intake of processed foods and refined carbohydrates—will escape, reduce, or reverse the development of numerous diseases. They write that "eating foods that contain any cholesterol above 0 mg is unhealthy."[6] The book recommends sunshine exposure or dietary supplements to maintain adequate levels of vitamin D, and supplements of vitamin B12 in case of complete avoidance of animal products.[7] It criticizes low-carb diets, such as the Atkins diet, which include restrictions on the percentage of calories derived from carbohydrates[8] The authors are critical of reductionist approaches to the study of nutrition, whereby certain nutrients are blamed for disease, as opposed to studying patterns of nutrition and the interactions between nutrients.[9]
I mean I think everyone understands that science changes over time and that often the profit motive influences conventional wisdom about medicine.

I was more asking specifically if these more recent diet guidelines have been debunked or is keto just an alternative weight loss strategy.
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Re: Want to lose weight & treatment for diabetes

Post by WiseOne » Sun Jun 13, 2021 1:41 pm

The Ornish diet and related low-fat, high sugar/carbohydrate diet have been studied head to head with the ketogenic diet for diabetes and weight loss multiple times. The literature is pretty clear: success rate for weight loss and diabetes control of the low fat diet is < 5%, and keto is >70%. Doesn't get much clearer than that. The only studies that don't show low fat diets in a bad light are the ones comparing to a strange definition of "ketogenic" that includes something like 50% carbohydrates. Which is low carb as per Dean Ornish and the USDA, who advocate 70-80% carbohydrate diets. But, 50% is probably still way too much carbs for a diabetic.

I should probably link to some of the articles in the literature but I don't have time at the moment....in the meantime, let me suggest you watch the movie "The Magic Pill" as an introduction. There's a related movie that focuses more on diabetes but I can't remember the name right now.
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Re: Want to lose weight & treatment for diabetes

Post by sweetbthescrivener » Sun Jun 13, 2021 2:08 pm

Thank you, WiseOne. Will check that out.
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Re: Want to lose weight & treatment for diabetes

Post by Smith1776 » Sun Jun 13, 2021 2:18 pm

To use Jordan Peterson's language, WiseOne is at the top of the dominance hierarchy on this forum in regards to health knowledge. She's my go-to girl for this kind of stuff! O0
I still find the James Rickards portfolio fascinating.
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Re: Want to lose weight & treatment for diabetes

Post by l82start » Sun Jun 13, 2021 2:36 pm

Smith1776 wrote:
Sun Jun 13, 2021 2:18 pm
To use Jordan Peterson's language, WiseOne is at the top of the dominance hierarchy on this forum in regards to health knowledge. She's my go-to girl for this kind of stuff! O0
also searching keto, diet (or similar search term) in the forum will bring up a wealth of topics, believe it or not there have been keto discussions happening here since the forums start, way back when it was fringe.. and long before it was a thing....
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Re: Want to lose weight & treatment for diabetes

Post by Smith1776 » Sun Jun 13, 2021 2:47 pm

tomfoolery wrote:
Sun Jun 13, 2021 2:44 pm
Smith1776 wrote:
Sun Jun 13, 2021 2:18 pm
To use Jordan Peterson's language, WiseOne is at the top of the dominance hierarchy on this forum in regards to health knowledge. She's my go-to girl for this kind of stuff! O0
I would agree on all parts of your statement except to assume WiseOne’s gender. On one hand, it’s incorrect to assume gender based on use of a feminine name and a feminine avatar photo. On the other hand, to assume WiseOne to be male based on being a physician is also offensive.

So I’d rather not assume.
I think the safest assumption to make is that she is Madame Curie.
I still find the James Rickards portfolio fascinating.
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Re: Want to lose weight & treatment for diabetes

Post by Don » Sun Jun 13, 2021 2:56 pm

Thanks.
Last edited by Don on Mon Jun 14, 2021 6:41 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Want to lose weight & treatment for diabetes

Post by D1984 » Sun Jun 13, 2021 4:36 pm

WiseOne wrote:
Sun Jun 13, 2021 1:41 pm
The Ornish diet and related low-fat, high sugar/carbohydrate diet have been studied head to head with the ketogenic diet for diabetes and weight loss multiple times. The literature is pretty clear: success rate for weight loss and diabetes control of the low fat diet is < 5%, and keto is >70%. Doesn't get much clearer than that. The only studies that don't show low fat diets in a bad light are the ones comparing to a strange definition of "ketogenic" that includes something like 50% carbohydrates. Which is low carb as per Dean Ornish and the USDA, who advocate 70-80% carbohydrate diets. But, 50% is probably still way too much carbs for a diabetic.

I should probably link to some of the articles in the literature but I don't have time at the moment....in the meantime, let me suggest you watch the movie "The Magic Pill" as an introduction. There's a related movie that focuses more on diabetes but I can't remember the name right now.
I don't doubt a ketogenic diet (or at least a fairly low-carb diet if not a strictly keto one.... since the strictest purest "true" ketogenic diet--the 4:1 one for epilepsy--the OG keto diet if you will--was 90% fat by macro composition....do you have any idea how difficult it is to eat 90% of your macros as fat? Just an example....you can't even have ribeyes or short ribs cooked in butter as a main dish unless you add additional fat on top of them because otherwise they have too much protein as a percent of macros and not enough fat! You can't eat very much kale or broccoli because even those can use up all your available carbs for the day) is probably best for those who are already diabetics; after all, sugar is toxic to a diabetic because their bodies can't utilize it properly due to insulin resistance (or due to a nearly complete lack of insulin in the case of T1s). My questions regarding ketogenic diets being the healthiest diets and/or the best diets to lose weight are as follows:

One, if it is the case that high-carb diets cause Type 2 diabetes and metabolic syndrome then why was T2 diabetes virtually non-existent from, say, 1900 to the mid-1960s (and fairly rare until the mid-1970s)? Keep in mind that for much of this period (at least until the early 1930s) people in the US ate more raw amounts (in grams) of carbohydrates per day on average than we do today (Americans were a lot poorer back then and bread and potatoes are much cheaper than meat and animal fats; as we got wealthier we ate less carbs and more meat, fats, vegetables, fruits, and sweets in both relative and absolute amounts compared to carbs); as a percentage of total calories carbohydrates have never been lower than they have from the late 1970s to the present (I have data from the USDA on this going back to 1909) and yet this is the time frame when diabetes, obesity, and metabolic syndrome exploded. Pretty much NO ONE was eating keto/low-carb/Atkins/carnivore in 1915 or 1939 or 1961 or 1975 yet the metabolic disorder epidemic of today basically didn't exist.

Two, if high-carb/low-fat diets are especially unhealthy then why do pretty much all the healthy high-longevity "Blue Zones" feature diets that are either (from a comparison with the Standard American Diet) relatively higher carb and lower in fat or at least relatively moderate carb and still fairly low fat? Granted, most of the carbs in these diet are unprocessed whole grain/bean/lentil/chickpea/etc carbs but still, if carbs are bad then you'd expect to see plenty of Blue Zone diets that were keto or low carb but you don't.

Three, how do you explain how people were relatively lean, fit, healthy, and non-diabetic on the diets of the Okinawans (largely purple sweet potatoes and rice with a bit of pork and some fruits and vegetables on occasion), pre-famine Ireland (diets among the vast majority of Irish at the time consisted almost entirely of potatoes, oatmeal, and "buttermilk" although it wasn't the buttermilk of today but rather milk that had had the cream already separated out as butter because that was the only kind of milk most of them could afford....it was much akin to what we would today consider skim milk), pre-1900s Thailand (for poorer Thais and middle-class Thais the diet was mostly rice and vegetables; this applies to Vietnam and Cambodia as well...presumably wealthier Southeast Asians during this time could and did eat more meat but rice was still the basis of their diet), rural China pre-1980s (mostly either white rice or wheat bread/wheat dumplings, very little fat of any kind but they did eat pork when they could afford it which wasn't that often), Japan pre-1950s (mostly white rice, vegetables, and seaweed with the occasional fish and even more rarely beef, pork, or fowl of any kind), and the Tukisenta islanders before the 1970s (they win the prize for the carbiest diets ever.....a bit over 94% of their total macro percentages were made up of carbohydrates; around 90% of what they ate was sweet potatoes; they ate pork or chicken but very rarely)?

Finally, how do you explain people losing weight (and improving their metabolic indicators to boot) on deliberately high-carb diets like the Kempner rice diet, Pritikin, McDougall/Starch Solution, or perhaps most famously the "potato hack" (i.e. eating only potatoes, salt, pepper, and condiments but no fat of any kind and no fructose whatsoever; plain potatoes are so satiating and fullness-inducing it's rather difficult to eat more than 1300-1600 calories a day of them....believe me, I tried)?

None of this is to discount ketogenic diets but I have to wonder if it's more than a simple "carbs are teh big bad evil" matter and the reality is that (again, for nondiabetics) it's really more of a question about starch/glucose being OK and fructose--or at least large quantities of refined sugar/HFCS/fructose--being the major source of the problem (as Dr. Lustig believes), or even if omega-6 PUFAs are one of the major causes of obesity/diabetes/metabolic dysfunction even worse than refined carbs (as Brad Marshall, Petro Dobromylskyj, Michael Eades, or Chris Knobbe would suggest.....all of these people have zero problems with high fat diets--indeed the last two have even been featured speakers at low-carb conferences several times--but based on what they are saying now it seems they have come to the conclusion that replacing saturated and monounsaturated fats with seed-oil PUFAs was as bad if not worse than consuming carbohydrates).
Last edited by D1984 on Sun Jun 13, 2021 5:23 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Want to lose weight & treatment for diabetes

Post by pp4me » Sun Jun 13, 2021 4:48 pm

Proof is in the pudding for me.

I've been moving in the low carb/keto direction for a long time with great success in losing weight (peak of 210, down to 160 over the course of many years).

As soon as I relax and start eating more carbs the weight starts going back on. I recently didn't pay attention long enough until I weighed myself and found I had gained 14 lbs.

I also do intermittent fasting, trying to mostly to eat only dinner and maybe some snacks in the evening. It was when I let those snacks turn into potato chips, ice cream, and other such treats that I put on the 14 lbs. I try not to snack but in case I do get the overwhelming urge I now make sure I have some low carb/keto snacks available and this has helped me to get most of the weight. Just 8 lbs to go to back to where I was.
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Re: Want to lose weight & treatment for diabetes

Post by Maddy » Sun Jun 13, 2021 7:44 pm

D1984 wrote:
Sun Jun 13, 2021 4:36 pm
if it is the case that high-carb diets cause Type 2 diabetes and metabolic syndrome then why was T2 diabetes virtually non-existent from, say, 1900 to the mid-1960s (and fairly rare until the mid-1970s)?
Where are you getting this information? One of the more ghoulish things passed on to me by my parents is a family tree-type chart mapping multiple generations of diabetics. The timespan would have been precisely the one you're talking about--1900 to the mid 1960s. Of course, a single personal anecdote doesn't prove anything, but it does cause me some skepticism.
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Re: Want to lose weight & treatment for diabetes

Post by Maddy » Sun Jun 13, 2021 7:52 pm

Could I trouble some of you keto people to describe what a typical breakfast, lunch, and dinner consists of? Especially you busy people who, like myself, don't spend more than 10 or 15 minutes preparing meals.

The closest I've come to going keto is to substitute WiseOne's keto mug muffins for my usual English muffins in the morning. I've noticed that with this substitution I can go a lot longer before getting hungry. But this year's been a bitch, and I confess that I am using food for the endorphins. And there's nothing like carbs to get the brain's happy chemicals going.
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Re: Want to lose weight & treatment for diabetes

Post by glennds » Sun Jun 13, 2021 8:14 pm

Maddy wrote:
Sun Jun 13, 2021 7:44 pm
D1984 wrote:
Sun Jun 13, 2021 4:36 pm
if it is the case that high-carb diets cause Type 2 diabetes and metabolic syndrome then why was T2 diabetes virtually non-existent from, say, 1900 to the mid-1960s (and fairly rare until the mid-1970s)?
Where are you getting this information? One of the more ghoulish things passed on to me by my parents is a family tree-type chart mapping multiple generations of diabetics. The timespan would have been precisely the one you're talking about--1900 to the mid 1960s. Of course, a single personal anecdote doesn't prove anything, but it does cause me some skepticism.
Last edited by glennds on Sun Jun 13, 2021 10:15 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Want to lose weight & treatment for diabetes

Post by Maddy » Sun Jun 13, 2021 8:45 pm

glennds wrote:
Sun Jun 13, 2021 8:14 pm
In this case D1984 looks to be correct, at least according to the CDC.
Well shoot. I guess this means the genetic cards are really stacked against me.
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Re: Want to lose weight & treatment for diabetes

Post by D1984 » Sun Jun 13, 2021 9:13 pm

Maddy wrote:
Sun Jun 13, 2021 7:44 pm
D1984 wrote:
Sun Jun 13, 2021 4:36 pm
if it is the case that high-carb diets cause Type 2 diabetes and metabolic syndrome then why was T2 diabetes virtually non-existent from, say, 1900 to the mid-1960s (and fairly rare until the mid-1970s)?
Where are you getting this information? One of the more ghoulish things passed on to me by my parents is a family tree-type chart mapping multiple generations of diabetics. The timespan would have been precisely the one you're talking about--1900 to the mid 1960s. Of course, a single personal anecdote doesn't prove anything, but it does cause me some skepticism.
We only have fairly reliable data for 1958 onwards as far as the specific incidence (both in raw numbers and as a percent of population) of diabetes is concerned. The data are available at https://www.cdc.gov/diabetes/statistics ... trends.pdf

Note that I think this is for both Type I and Type II combined so the actual incidence of just T2 would've been even less than this; a big proportion of the increase in diabetes (the vast majority of it, in fact) has been caused by the explosion in the prevalence of adult-onset diabetes (AKA Type 2).

As far as the data before the late 1950s are concerned a lot of what we have is observational rather than actual hard numbers. Technically, modern medical science hadn't actually even "proved" a difference between the two types of diabetes until the mid-1930s; Harold Himsworth published the paper establishing that the two types of diabetes were distinct (i.e. one was due to lack of insulin whereas the other was due to lack of sensitivity to insulin) at the very beginning of 1936; see https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/ful ... 11.03399.x (although strictly as a matter of simple observation physicians in Joslin and Banting's time must have suspected there was some kind of difference in types of diabetes since in the pre-insulin era once someone was diagnosed with diabetes--presumably through symptoms such as glucosuria since back then they lacked fancy diagnostic equipment, blood glucose meters, or A1C testing--they either died relatively quickly or lived for years/decades; in fact, as far back as the 500s CE two Indian physicians (Sushruta and Charaka) identified differences in diabetes, with one type being associated with youth and the other with being overweight; see https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3749019/ and https://books.google.com/books?id=i0qoj ... &q&f=false

We may not know the exact prevalence of T2 diabetes in the early 1900s but we can easily observe that most of the deaths in 1900 did NOT come from illnesses associated with metabolic syndrome; the top causes of death in 1900 (by far) were infectious (TB, pneumonia, diptheria, gastrointestinal illnesses, and influenza); see around the 5:41 mark at https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7kGnfXXIKZM ; note that "heart disease" deaths in 1900 would also mostly have been either valvular, congenital, or as a result of infection (staph/strep or other bacteria) rather than MIs or sudden cardiac arrest, and that many of the kidney disease/nephropathy cases would have been of infectious causes as well (staph, strep, e. coli, immediate or delayed aftereffects of typhoid, etc); also, while we don't have truly detailed and accurate obesity prevalence data for before the early 1960s we do have average BMIs from before this time (see https://voxeu.org/article/100-years-us-obesity ) and they were remarkably low compared to today; one would reasonably not expect nearly as much metabolic syndrome associated diseases like T2 diabetes in a population that was on average at a healthy non-obese weight. Physicians from this era did diagnose and treat (or at least try to treat) "diseases of affluence" at the time like gout, and since they knew about diabetes presumably if it (or the other disease associated with it or with metabolic syndrome in general) were common causes of death there would be plenty of articles/studies/case histories of something resembling T2 diabetes in the medical literature of the time but there aren't; almost all of the mentions of diabetes are of patients who died of its symptoms within a few months or a year or so of diagnosis (or sometimes a few years if kept on a semi-starvation diet) which was:

A. Still rather rare compared to today (remember, T1 is only slightly more common now but T2 occurrence has exploded since then), and

B. Would seem to likely indicate Type I diabetes rather than Type II diabetes.

So no, I don't have absolutely 100% smoking-gun proof that T2 diabetes was rare from the early 1900s to the late 1950s but given all we know about the lack of obesity during these years, about morbidity and mortality being almost entirely from infectious diseases in this period (at least until clean water, better sanitation, and later on antibiotics reduced mortality from these sources dramatically over the next few decades after 1900) rather than metabolic diseases, and the fact that by the first year we do have good data for diabetes incidence--in 1958--T1 and T2 combined were at barely over 0.9% of the American population (note that this is about a tenth of where it is at today) I think it is safe to say that Americans in 1900 or 1914 or 1935 weren't suffering from metabolic syndrome or Type Ii diabetes anywhere nearly as much as Americans of today.
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Re: Want to lose weight & treatment for diabetes

Post by glennds » Sun Jun 13, 2021 10:19 pm

Maddy wrote:
Sun Jun 13, 2021 8:45 pm
glennds wrote:
Sun Jun 13, 2021 8:14 pm
In this case D1984 looks to be correct, at least according to the CDC.
Well shoot. I guess this means the genetic cards are really stacked against me.
I think I'm probably in a similar boat as you in terms of the hand I've been dealt.
At least we're living in a better time than ever before for eating rationally and being informed.
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Re: Want to lose weight & treatment for diabetes

Post by Dieter » Sun Jun 13, 2021 11:27 pm

I've been doing 16/8 IF (roughly, some variation) as per the chart as part of my 2021 New years resolution. Unintentionally built up to it by stopping after dinner snacking last Nov (which is basically 12/12 IF)

Not doing Keto, but I have increased protein / fat and limit simple carbs (as I'm eating a Jr "premium" ice cream sandwitch. Some treats 🙂)

Plus started exercising more with an emphasis on light full-body resistance training and walking (i get injured easily) vs any serious cardio

Misc other changes

Lost ~30lb since Nov while becoming stronger
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Re: Want to lose weight & treatment for diabetes

Post by I Shrugged » Mon Jun 14, 2021 7:31 am

Maddy wrote:
Sun Jun 13, 2021 7:44 pm
D1984 wrote:
Sun Jun 13, 2021 4:36 pm
if it is the case that high-carb diets cause Type 2 diabetes and metabolic syndrome then why was T2 diabetes virtually non-existent from, say, 1900 to the mid-1960s (and fairly rare until the mid-1970s)?
Where are you getting this information? One of the more ghoulish things passed on to me by my parents is a family tree-type chart mapping multiple generations of diabetics. The timespan would have been precisely the one you're talking about--1900 to the mid 1960s. Of course, a single personal anecdote doesn't prove anything, but it does cause me some skepticism.
Type 1, or Type 2?
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Re: Want to lose weight & treatment for diabetes

Post by Maddy » Mon Jun 14, 2021 7:41 am

Thanks, Tom, for a snapshot of what your meals look like. That's exactly what I was looking for.
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Re: Want to lose weight & treatment for diabetes

Post by Maddy » Mon Jun 14, 2021 7:48 am

I Shrugged wrote:
Mon Jun 14, 2021 7:31 am
Maddy wrote:
Sun Jun 13, 2021 7:44 pm
D1984 wrote:
Sun Jun 13, 2021 4:36 pm
if it is the case that high-carb diets cause Type 2 diabetes and metabolic syndrome then why was T2 diabetes virtually non-existent from, say, 1900 to the mid-1960s (and fairly rare until the mid-1970s)?
Where are you getting this information? One of the more ghoulish things passed on to me by my parents is a family tree-type chart mapping multiple generations of diabetics. The timespan would have been precisely the one you're talking about--1900 to the mid 1960s. Of course, a single personal anecdote doesn't prove anything, but it does cause me some skepticism.
Type 1, or Type 2?
Unfortunately I don't know. I have personal knowledge of only one family member being diagnosed, and that was a Type 2, ca. 1970. However it's possible that was a fluke and that the rest were Type 1s, as there's some autoimmune stuff in my family history as well. I'll probably never know.

So if it's true that Type 2 was virtually nonexistent prior to the mid-sixties, does this mean that there is no meaningful genetic component to Type 2?
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Re: Want to lose weight & treatment for diabetes

Post by WiseOne » Mon Jun 14, 2021 10:28 am

D1984, I wish I had time for a point by point rebuttal, but you are getting a lot of your facts mixed up. That's not an indictment of your reasoning powers; it's an indication that what you're poking into is hideously complex.

Let me HIGHLY recommend that you get a copy of Gary Taubes' book, "Good calories, bad calories". As a science journalist with a ton of prior experience, he did a tremendous amount of painstaking research into these questions and provides a very detailed, comprehensive story of how the current diet paradigms came to be.

Maddy - there's a chapter detailing a very interesting historical study of diabetes incidence from the Massachusetts general hospital. It started in the early/mid 1800s, and almost exactly paralleled the rise in sugar consumption which started around 1830. He also has stats in there on macronutrient consumption over time. It's not correct about carbs being higher in the 19th century than today - it's exactly the opposite. Diabetes and obesity of course also took off like a rocket after the initial USDA dietary guidelines were implemented. Yes these are associative statistics but at the very least you'll be interested in the trajectory of type 2 diabetes - and interesting that it started before virtually all the things that the diabetes epidemic is typically blamed on, like iPhones and sedentary lifestyles.

p.s. yes I'm female. But I'm not Marie Curie.

p.p.s. Hamberger casserole tonight! ground beef with all the fixings you like on hambergers, mix in a cream & egg binder and bake 20 minutes. Seriously yum. Or just fry a hamburger and top with what you like (bacon, no sugar ketchup, spicy mayo etc) and enjoy.
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Re: Want to lose weight & treatment for diabetes

Post by Tortoise » Mon Jun 14, 2021 12:04 pm

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Re: Want to lose weight & treatment for diabetes

Post by pp4me » Mon Jun 14, 2021 12:13 pm

Maddy wrote:
Sun Jun 13, 2021 7:52 pm
Could I trouble some of you keto people to describe what a typical breakfast, lunch, and dinner consists of? Especially you busy people who, like myself, don't spend more than 10 or 15 minutes preparing meals.

The closest I've come to going keto is to substitute WiseOne's keto mug muffins for my usual English muffins in the morning. I've noticed that with this substitution I can go a lot longer before getting hungry. But this year's been a bitch, and I confess that I am using food for the endorphins. And there's nothing like carbs to get the brain's happy chemicals going.
When your brain starts being fed with only ketones and starved of carbs, it will eventually like it a lot but it takes a while.

I rarely eat breakfast and/or lunch unless my wife is home and wants to cook breakfast. When I do it's bacon and eggs, no toast.

On the rare occasions when I get hungry during the daytime I sometimes make a bacon and cheddar cheese sandwich. I cook the bacon in the microwave to my liking. Haven't found any decent low carb bread so I use the low carb tortillas you can buy at the grocery store. Wrap the bacon in it, throw on the cheese, and microwave it until the cheese melts. Very filling and those tortillas have a lot of fiber which can be very beneficial when you are on keto.

The tortillas are also useful for other sandwiches. Can even make a halfway decent hamburger bun though you have to cut the hamburger just right to fit it in (note to self - try shaping the hamburger like a hot dog before cooking next time). A hot dog or even two is a perfect fit. You can wrap the hot dog in the tortilla, stick it in the microwave for 30 seconds, apply some fixings and you've got a meal in less than a minute. If you want a really good fat bomb add some mayonnaise for even more fat.

As I said, I rarely do it. When you get into the habit of only eating one meal a day, it spoils the enjoyment of it when you eat something earlier. Was hard to do before I retired but it's been pretty easy since.

For dinner, it's meat and a vegetable and/or salad. Always Ranch dressing for the salad because I think it's the highest fat. Pretty simple and easy unless I feel like trying to make something exotic which I usually ruin.

I don't usually snack but I keep some low carb snacks on hand in case I get the munchies. Before my daughter moved out I could eat all of her junk food but now if I want something I have keto ice cream bars, yogurt, or some other keto snacks you can buy at Costco. If you read the ingredients on them they aren't as strictly keto as they claim but they are a lot better than potato chips or normal ice cream (two things the hardest to give up for me).

I never seem to get hungry on this diet but boredom is a problem (more for my wife than me who is Asian and loves rice). So I will mix it up with some normal days of pasta/potatoes/bread. Doesn't seem to affect my weight much as long as I don't let it become a habit which I just did a while ago. Some people claim that what they call carb-cycling, alternating between keto and carbs leads to the most weight loss, as well as helping you maintain metabolic flexibility.

I do reach a point where weight loss stalls on keto. Then I have to either do some intense exercise and/or completely fast for a while to break through it.
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