Cortopassi counter culture

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Benko
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Cortopassi counter culture

Post by Benko » Tue May 11, 2021 3:37 pm

Cortopassi,

Republicans taking out their own i.e. Cheney because she is not representing their views is not the same as Ds forcing their views on everyone else.
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Cortopassi
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Re: Cortopassi counter culture

Post by Cortopassi » Tue May 11, 2021 3:42 pm

Damn, had a near heart attack seeing my name in a topic! ;)

What I seem to see, for good or bad, is a lot more in-fighting on the dems, probably because they have a wider range of views? Is that a fair assessment?

You range from a near republican like Joe Manchin, to uber liberal AOC.

Not sure there is that much variety in the repubs views?

This graph seems to bear that out (at least by color) to some extent:

Image
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Xan
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Re: Cortopassi counter culture

Post by Xan » Tue May 11, 2021 3:48 pm

An odd conflation of racial diversity with diversity of opinion there, Corto.
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Re: Cortopassi counter culture

Post by Cortopassi » Tue May 11, 2021 3:54 pm

Xan wrote:
Tue May 11, 2021 3:48 pm
An odd conflation of racial diversity with diversity of opinion there, Corto.
You don't think a rep from a large city with urban issues (say black or hispanic) may have differing views than one from a white suburban area?
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Re: Cortopassi counter culture

Post by Cortopassi » Tue May 11, 2021 3:56 pm

MangoMan wrote:
Tue May 11, 2021 3:50 pm
Wow, the Dems in the Senate have a whole 5 more POC than the GOP does. That there is proof of anti-racism. ::)
Or said another way, democrats have 266% more people of color in the senate than republicans. Sounds different, eh? ;)

But I will say I was surprised by the house. Republicans are pretty darn homogenous.
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Re: Cortopassi counter culture

Post by Xan » Tue May 11, 2021 10:00 pm

Cortopassi wrote:
Tue May 11, 2021 3:54 pm
Xan wrote:
Tue May 11, 2021 3:48 pm
An odd conflation of racial diversity with diversity of opinion there, Corto.
You don't think a rep from a large city with urban issues (say black or hispanic) may have differing views than one from a white suburban area?
Certainly, a rep out of a large city may have differing views from a rep out of the country. But that isn't what your chart shows. You seem to be assuming that black reps by definition will have different views from white reps, etc. As though everyone's thoughts are determined entirely by their race.
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Re: Cortopassi counter culture

Post by D1984 » Tue May 11, 2021 10:04 pm

Xan wrote:
Tue May 11, 2021 3:48 pm
An odd conflation of racial diversity with diversity of opinion there, Corto.
Just curious....how does it look if you instead classify each party by its political diversity rather than its racial diversity? What if we used DW-NOMINATE scores instead of race?
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Re: Cortopassi counter culture

Post by Cortopassi » Tue May 11, 2021 10:44 pm

Xan wrote:
Tue May 11, 2021 10:00 pm
Cortopassi wrote:
Tue May 11, 2021 3:54 pm
Xan wrote:
Tue May 11, 2021 3:48 pm
An odd conflation of racial diversity with diversity of opinion there, Corto.
You don't think a rep from a large city with urban issues (say black or hispanic) may have differing views than one from a white suburban area?
Certainly, a rep out of a large city may have differing views from a rep out of the country. But that isn't what your chart shows. You seem to be assuming that black reps by definition will have different views from white reps, etc. As though everyone's thoughts are determined entirely by their race.
You are right, I am assuming at least part of their thoughts are dictated by their background. That certainly does not mean black reps all grew up in the ghetto, and white ones in rich suburbia. But just the added racial diversity likely means there are different aspects to solving problems. My opinion.
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Re: Cortopassi counter culture

Post by Xan » Tue May 11, 2021 11:16 pm

D1984 wrote:
Tue May 11, 2021 10:04 pm
Xan wrote:
Tue May 11, 2021 3:48 pm
An odd conflation of racial diversity with diversity of opinion there, Corto.
Just curious....how does it look if you instead classify each party by its political diversity rather than its racial diversity? What if we used DW-NOMINATE scores instead of race?
Here's an attempt at something like that:
https://www.allsides.com/sites/default/ ... raphic.png

From this article about political polarization:
https://www.allsides.com/blog/political ... ing-charts
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Re: Cortopassi counter culture

Post by WiseOne » Thu May 13, 2021 9:56 am

Xan wrote:
Tue May 11, 2021 10:00 pm
As though everyone's thoughts are determined entirely by their race.
But of course they are. Isn't that the entire basis of BLM and "defund the police"?
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Re: Cortopassi counter culture

Post by glennds » Sun May 16, 2021 10:59 am

Xan wrote:
Tue May 11, 2021 10:00 pm
Cortopassi wrote:
Tue May 11, 2021 3:54 pm
Xan wrote:
Tue May 11, 2021 3:48 pm
An odd conflation of racial diversity with diversity of opinion there, Corto.
You don't think a rep from a large city with urban issues (say black or hispanic) may have differing views than one from a white suburban area?
Certainly, a rep out of a large city may have differing views from a rep out of the country. But that isn't what your chart shows. You seem to be assuming that black reps by definition will have different views from white reps, etc. As though everyone's thoughts are determined entirely by their race.
Maybe the chart is nothing more complicated than a measure of representative government. One measure at least. Not the only measure, but one.

When compared to the census distribution, which side resembles the US population distribution more closely (almost exactly in fact).
Which side reflects "tyranny of the minority"?
Between the two concepts (i) representative democracy and (ii) tyranny of the minority, which do you think is more aligned with the ideology of the Constitution?
Last edited by glennds on Sun May 16, 2021 11:16 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Cortopassi counter culture

Post by glennds » Sun May 16, 2021 11:15 am

Benko wrote:
Tue May 11, 2021 3:37 pm
Cortopassi,

Republicans taking out their own i.e. Cheney because she is not representing their views is not the same as Ds forcing their views on everyone else.
I was once taught that you can lose money in your life and always get it back. But once you trade your principles, they're gone forever.
I was a die hard Republican for more years of my life than not. At that time Republican and Conservative were pretty much the same thing. It changed around the time of Newt Gingrich's rise in the party where ideology and Republican principles became secondary to tribalism. The party became the party of Fight Club.
Liz Cheney has been a staunch and consistent conservative, as proven by her voting record. Where she has "failed" is her choice to stand on principle in lieu of fealty to a cult of one person's personality.

Now we see the party burn Liz Cheney at the stake, and then run for a restroom break when the check arrives on Matt Gaetz.
Gaetz's associate and confidant has just pled guilty to sex trafficking of a minor to adult men, so says his attorney.
Why burn Cheney and go silent on Gaetz? Because Gaetz is a loyal member of the tribe.
If he's found guilty, he'd better hope 2024 goes his way because then he'll have access to a tribal pardon, or maybe a medal of freedom.

Believe me, the Dems have issues no doubt. But if you ask me, the Republican party is corroding at a faster rate.
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Re: Cortopassi counter culture

Post by I Shrugged » Sun May 16, 2021 12:38 pm

glennds wrote:
Sun May 16, 2021 11:15 am
Benko wrote:
Tue May 11, 2021 3:37 pm
Cortopassi,

Republicans taking out their own i.e. Cheney because she is not representing their views is not the same as Ds forcing their views on everyone else.
I was once taught that you can lose money in your life and always get it back. But once you trade your principles, they're gone forever.
I was a die hard Republican for more years of my life than not. At that time Republican and Conservative were pretty much the same thing. It changed around the time of Newt Gingrich's rise in the party where ideology and Republican principles became secondary to tribalism. The party became the party of Fight Club.
Liz Cheney has been a staunch and consistent conservative, as proven by her voting record. Where she has "failed" is her choice to stand on principle in lieu of fealty to a cult of one person's personality.

Now we see the party burn Liz Cheney at the stake, and then run for a restroom break when the check arrives on Matt Gaetz.
Gaetz's associate and confidant has just pled guilty to sex trafficking of a minor to adult men, so says his attorney.
Why burn Cheney and go silent on Gaetz? Because Gaetz is a loyal member of the tribe.
If he's found guilty, he'd better hope 2024 goes his way because then he'll have access to a tribal pardon, or maybe a medal of freedom.

Believe me, the Dems have issues no doubt. But if you ask me, the Republican party is corroding at a faster rate.
In 2016 I said Trump destroyed both parties, and we would see what forms they take going forward. This process is ongoing. What you see today in each party is not what you'll see in a few years. The Rs are becoming more populist and the Ds more socialist green. Where they are going on military adventurism is not exactly clear. Trump was the only person of consequence on either side who really believed in ratcheting down.
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