Mileage taxes, carbon taxes

[doodle]

Seems like proposals for mileage taxes and carbon taxes should fit squarely in with libertarian philosophies. After all, shouldn't entities be charged according to their usage of infrastructure or how much pollution they offload into common airspace? Seems like a much fairer method of taxing than profit based methods for example.

[I Shrugged]

In theory the libertarians endorse use and consumption taxes over income, estate, & wealth taxes. But when push comes to shove, who knows.

I am at the point where any new tax scheme seems to be more about just finding another way to tax people, in addition to the existing ones.

[vnatale]

In theory the libertarians endorse use and consumption taxes over income, estate, & wealth taxes. But when push comes to shove, who knows.

I am at the point where any new tax scheme seems to be more about just finding another way to tax people, in addition to the existing ones.

It's somewhat similar to moving to a Valued Added Tax system of tax system in place of our current system. But then no one trusts that we eventually don't see the current system added back so that now we get up getting taxed two different ways.

[I Shrugged]

We are becoming an MMT government finance system. In that, the main purpose of taxes is to punish wealth, or deter or encourage certain behaviors.

[vnatale]

We are becoming an MMT government finance system. In that, the main purpose of taxes is to punish wealth, or deter or encourage certain behaviors.

I am not sure at what point it became so...but the system from when it was first instituted (1913?) changed from purely a revenue system to one with also encouraged or discouraged certain behaviors. Then, at another point, it clearly came to be a system to most benefit those who could potentially be taxed the most wherein they were allowed to write the rules so as to protect their interests.

This is the quintessential book to learn in great detail all about this behavior perpetrated by those who have great influence on our tax code....

https://www.amazon.com/Perfectly-Legal- ... l_huc_item

Perfectly Legal: The Covert Campaign to Rig Our Tax System to Benefit the Super Rich--and Cheat E verybody Else Paperback – January 4, 2005

[doodle]

We are becoming an MMT government finance system. In that, the main purpose of taxes is to punish wealth, or deter or encourage certain behaviors.

I haven't seen where MMT looks at taxes as a form of punishment... They seem to focus on taxation as an inflationary pressure relief valve. As far as discouraging and encouraging certain behaviors one could argue that taxing pollution or road usage is reintroducing market pressures on individuals and more fairly distributing costs.

For the record, Id be fine with a flat tax if we could get an organized labor movement off the ground that would be able to use free market principles and negotiation to more equitably distribute wealth. I'd love to see everything accomplished from an independent bottom up grassroots level rather than a top down government approach. Of course, any mention of organized labor labels me a communist around here.

[I Shrugged]

We are becoming an MMT government finance system. In that, the main purpose of taxes is to punish wealth, or deter or encourage certain behaviors.

I haven't seen where MMT looks at taxes as a form of punishment... They seem to focus on taxation as an inflationary pressure relief valve. As far as discouraging and encouraging certain behaviors one could argue that taxing pollution or road usage is reintroducing market pressures on individuals and more fairly distributing costs.

For the record, Id be fine with a flat tax if we could get an organized labor movement off the ground that would be able to use free market principles and negotiation to more equitably distribute wealth. I'd love to see everything accomplished from an independent bottom up grassroots level rather than a top down government approach. Of course, any mention of organized labor labels me a communist around here.

I mean real world MMT versus theoretical. That’s the way I see it happening. If deficits don’t matter, then what are taxes for?

[doodle]

We are becoming an MMT government finance system. In that, the main purpose of taxes is to punish wealth, or deter or encourage certain behaviors.

I haven't seen where MMT looks at taxes as a form of punishment... They seem to focus on taxation as an inflationary pressure relief valve. As far as discouraging and encouraging certain behaviors one could argue that taxing pollution or road usage is reintroducing market pressures on individuals and more fairly distributing costs.

For the record, Id be fine with a flat tax if we could get an organized labor movement off the ground that would be able to use free market principles and negotiation to more equitably distribute wealth. I'd love to see everything accomplished from an independent bottom up grassroots level rather than a top down government approach. Of course, any mention of organized labor labels me a communist around here.

I mean real world MMT versus theoretical. That’s the way I see it happening. If deficits don’t matter, then what are taxes for?

As I've heard it explained...taxes can be used to pull inflationary pressure out of economy and incentivize or disincentivize certain behaviors. The government doesn't need your taxes to spend. And when the economy has excess capacity government can spend without worrying about removing resources or bidding up the prices by competing with the labor needs of the private sector.

[WiseOne]

I actually would very much like to see a national sales tax implemented.

Taxing consumption rather than income & savings makes a huge amount of sense.

It's a lot easier to capture sales than income. Especially with the huge illegal immigrant population who mostly get paid cash under the table, and thus pay no income tax. Same is true for many US workers, because of how crazy expensive it has become to hire an employee. Between the new open border policy and the increase in the minimum wage, that is only going to get worse. But, all these people for sure will use their cash to buy stuff and you'll get them that way.

It is automatically a progressive tax, because wealthy people buy a lot more stuff.

If a national sales tax is implemented, I'd like to see it used to increase the standard deduction, thus getting a lot of people off the income tax system entirely, and also to eliminate taxes on interest and the FICA tax (which is a very regressive tax).

Yes I know there will be lots of cheating...but not more than you see already with income taxes. That is not an argument - because if it was, why would so many states have implemented sales taxes?

[drumminj]

I actually would very much like to see a national sales tax implemented.

Taxing consumption rather than income & savings makes a huge amount of sense.

For those of us who were already taxed on the income that is now in our savings, you're suggesting we get taxed again based on this shift...isn't that kinda uncool?

I'm also a fan of taxing consumption instead of production, but how do you not screw over a generation of folks with the policy shift?