Colorado Grocery Store Mass Shooter

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Re: Colorado Grocery Store Mass Shooter

Post by Mark Leavy » Thu Mar 25, 2021 8:35 pm

Seriously, Tortoise.

On purely aesthetic grounds you can’t beat a lever action Henry.

The assault rifle of Harriet Tubman and the LDS.
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Re: Colorado Grocery Store Mass Shooter

Post by dualstow » Thu Mar 25, 2021 8:38 pm

Xan wrote:
Thu Mar 25, 2021 6:42 pm
dualstow wrote:
Thu Mar 25, 2021 5:52 pm
Cortopassi wrote:
Thu Mar 25, 2021 4:19 pm
Devil's Advocate (I own a gun).
...
So as usual I see both sides. Not trying to stir the pot here, just trying to reason out why I have a gun in the first place.
Because you like guns?
I have been deliberating buying a gun for as long as I’ve been on the forum. Longer. But, there’s a bodyguard app now, billing itself as something like the Uber of bodyguarding. I haven’t made use of it, but I like the idea that if i want to transport a large amount of gold or even make a trip to an uncomfortable part of town at night, that I can be accompanied by a huge guy that can use a gun under stress.
Meanwhile, I don’t have to be concerned about transporting a gun, locking it up, maintaining it, etc.
It might be nice t have a gun and I’ve enjoyed shooting in the past, but this seems like a more practical solution for me.
Seems like a reasonable option. It also requires the 2nd amendment, in order for the big guy to have a gun.
For sure.
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Re: Colorado Grocery Store Mass Shooter

Post by dualstow » Fri Mar 26, 2021 6:27 am

tomfoolery wrote:
Thu Mar 25, 2021 10:03 pm
If you want to hire someone to bodyguard you, it needs to be an off duty police officer.

Just as an example, the aforementioned app works in NYC. The guards are ex-military and some are retired police, but not off duty police officers.
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Re: Colorado Grocery Store Mass Shooter

Post by dualstow » Fri Mar 26, 2021 7:47 am

MangoMan wrote:
Fri Mar 26, 2021 6:47 am
Is the name of that app a secret? We're having an entire conversation about something that has not been specified.
I didn’t want to look like a shill, and I haven’t used it, but since you asked:

https://www.prnewswire.com/news-release ... 61405.html

https://play.google.com/store/apps/deta ... n_US&gl=US

https://apps.apple.com/us/app/bond-pers ... 1439903736

https://www.ourbond.com/
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Re: Colorado Grocery Store Mass Shooter

Post by Cortopassi » Fri Mar 26, 2021 8:38 am

MangoMan wrote:
Thu Mar 25, 2021 7:30 pm
Cortopassi wrote:
Thu Mar 25, 2021 4:19 pm
Devil's Advocate (I own a gun).

--Who really needs a gun, other than police, armed forces and hunters?
What happens when there are rioters or other 'bad guys' at your doorstep and the police refuse to come? Because they are overwhelmed, or because they don't want to end up dead/in prison, or because the idiot mayor/governor tells them to stand down because, well, you know.

What happens when you are stupid enough to drive into Chicago and someone carjacks you (btw, did you know there are now armed guards at some gas stations in Chicago?)?
Hey guys, I was just trying to play devil's advocate!

To me these are are basically (generally male) fantasy situations. Yeah, I'm getting carjacked, and of course I will have time to reach into my glovebox or into my holster and expertly take down the three thugs that are trying to take my car. Uh huh.

As for tyranny and pointing out places like Iraq and Afghanistan, what, did all these rebel fighters simply already have those ARs in their basement along with unlimited ammo? I think probably not and they are being supplied, just like you and your neighbors might be supplied by some resistance movement if there was a government issue.

I don't know. Right now, if there's some issue, I have a single 9mm handgun and about 200 rounds. Not lasting that long!
-----------------
WiseOne, you mention the lack of Islamic shootings during Trump. May be true, I'm not going to research each shooting, but the list below shows mass shooting in general certainly did not decrease while he was in office.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_m ... ted_States
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Re: Colorado Grocery Store Mass Shooter

Post by I Shrugged » Fri Mar 26, 2021 8:56 am

If you are still alive after firing 200 9mm shots in a STHF scenario, you're doing a lot better than the average bear. ie 200 rounds is not a trivial amount.

Just think of places in our lifetimes in which civilian gun ownership could have made a huge difference in averting tyranny. There are many. Here's a small one, Haiti, with the tonton macoutes.
http://www.haitiobserver.com/blog/tonto ... -dyna.html
If Haitians had been armed, that would not have happened.

You need enough gun owners to have herd immunity.

It's not about hunting, that's for sure. It's a little about self defense and a lot about putting real fear into potential tyrants. And invading armies for that matter. Suppose the US is on the wrong side of WW3, and has had the crap bombed out of it, like Japan in WW2. Our internet and smart phones are down. Our internal supply system is in tatters. Now it comes time to invade and occupy the US, but there's a catch.

Well they can always take California I suppose.
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Re: Colorado Grocery Store Mass Shooter

Post by dualstow » Fri Mar 26, 2021 10:38 am

^ Agree ^
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Re: Colorado Grocery Store Mass Shooter

Post by vnatale » Fri Mar 26, 2021 12:52 pm

MangoMan wrote:
Fri Mar 26, 2021 11:17 am

dualstow wrote:
Fri Mar 26, 2021 7:47 am

MangoMan wrote:
Fri Mar 26, 2021 6:47 am

Is the name of that app a secret? We're having an entire conversation about something that has not been specified.


I didn’t want to look like a shill, and I haven’t used it, but since you asked:

https://www.prnewswire.com/news-release ... 61405.html

https://play.google.com/store/apps/deta ... n_US&gl=US

https://apps.apple.com/us/app/bond-pers ... 1439903736

https://www.ourbond.com/


Thanks for sharing. Rather than get a bodyguard, I think I'll just live, work and play where one is generally not needed, thanks.

A friend of mine just told me he is moving into the city bc his GF enjoys it down there. I told him I'd dump my GF before I'd move to Chicago, and I have twice as much time invested in my relationship than he does in his.


One could amend that to "where owning a gun is generally not needed"...
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Re: Colorado Grocery Store Mass Shooter

Post by WiseOne » Fri Mar 26, 2021 12:54 pm

Yes, that's my feeling. If it's too dangerous to walk around my neighborhood without a bodyguard, that would definitely be the signal to find a safer place to live.

Cortopassi, the Second Amendment doesn't say that you can only have a gun if you want to hunt with it. It does suggest, though, that the right to own a gun exists only in the context of a "well-regulated militia". I personally would read that as:

The right to own a gun is contingent on joining a militia that can be described as well-regulated. e.g. the National/Coast Guard, or the police.
The militia, though not necessarily gun ownership, should be subject to some form of regulation, presumably by either the state or the federal government.

The idea of state-regulated militias is interesting. There's nothing forbidding this in the Constitution, but there may be in federal law.
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Re: Colorado Grocery Store Mass Shooter

Post by dualstow » Fri Mar 26, 2021 3:10 pm

What I wrote:
I haven’t made use of it, but I like the idea that if i want to transport a large amount of gold or even make a trip to an uncomfortable part of town at night, that I can be accompanied by a huge guy that can use a gun under stress.
Meanwhile, I don’t have to be concerned about transporting a gun, locking it up, maintaining it, etc.
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
MangoMan wrote:
Fri Mar 26, 2021 11:17 am
Thanks for sharing. Rather than get a bodyguard, I think I'll just live, work and play where one is generally not needed, thanks.

A friend of mine just told me he is moving into the city bc his GF enjoys it down there. I told him I'd dump my GF before I'd move to Chicago, and I have twice as much time invested in my relationship than he does in his.
WiseOne wrote:
Fri Mar 26, 2021 12:54 pm
Yes, that's my feeling. If it's too dangerous to walk around my neighborhood without a bodyguard, that would definitely be the signal to find a safer place to live.


How you guys changed that to "I need a bodyguard in my own neighborhood", I'll never know. It's not what I said.
I've been in the same place for over 20 years.
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Re: Colorado Grocery Store Mass Shooter

Post by dualstow » Fri Mar 26, 2021 3:47 pm

MangoMan wrote:
Fri Mar 26, 2021 3:41 pm
dualstow wrote:
Fri Mar 26, 2021 3:10 pm

How you guys changed that to "I need a bodyguard in my own neighborhood", I'll never know. It's not what I said.
I've been in the same place for over 20 years.
Does your wife feel safe walking around your neighborhood alone after dark? If not, it's not safe. My GF would walk around my neighborhood with no issues.
That's a good question. Yes, until the civil unrest last year. Now, I would say early dark is ok, but not as late as her first ten years here.

My main point though: a gun is not for everyone. I support the right to keep and bear arms. The fact that I haven't chosen to buy one has no bearing on it. If I did have a gun, I don't think you'd be { overly sensitive reply deleted }
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Re: Colorado Grocery Store Mass Shooter

Post by dualstow » Fri Mar 26, 2021 3:52 pm

I used to walk home from the train station after midnight, after flying home. I don't do that as of 2020, but it's not a reason to move. It's a reason to take a cab.
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Re: Colorado Grocery Store Mass Shooter

Post by dualstow » Fri Mar 26, 2021 3:59 pm

I agree. I deleted that section but I guess you were already working on your reply. Forgive me. I get a little uptight when I'm getting ready to click on that Southwest check-in. Have to be quick. ;-)
Maybe we're not that different.
Same with the gun. My hood is safe, but I have one in the house just in case. No concealed carry permit, so I just don't go into sketchy areas
Right. I would make use of the bodyguard just in case. Sometimes I do have to go to sketchy areas for concerts (not lately) or to a friend's place.
I might be getting off topic, but I will say a friend who lives in the same neighborhood feels perfectly safe even at night. The main difference? I suspect it's this stupid fearmongering Citizen app (yes, another app). I should delete it. Lately, it's been reporting crimes close to home, and it didn't used to, except after midnight. Well, the warm weather is coming.
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Re: Colorado Grocery Store Mass Shooter

Post by glennds » Fri Mar 26, 2021 5:28 pm

MangoMan wrote:
Fri Mar 26, 2021 3:54 pm


Same with the gun. My hood is safe, but I have one in the house just in case. No concealed carry permit, so I just don't go into sketchy areas. That's my own personal choice, not a commentary on anything else.
I would bet most people would consider the Colorado grocery store neighborhood to be as safe a hood as they come. But look what can happen anywhere. Plus, even if some or all of the grocery store patrons were carrying, I can't help but wonder how well they would have done unexpectedly facing down a loose shooter with an AR-15. Gun or no gun, that's a terrifying situation, enough to paralyze most normal people with fear.

Owning a gun and being able to use it effectively in a combat situation are two different things.

Have any mass shootings happened in "sketchy" areas?
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Re: Colorado Grocery Store Mass Shooter

Post by Kriegsspiel » Fri Mar 26, 2021 5:43 pm

glennds wrote:
Fri Mar 26, 2021 5:28 pm
I would bet most people would consider the Colorado grocery store neighborhood to be as safe a hood as they come. But look what can happen anywhere. Plus, even if some or all of the grocery store patrons were carrying, I can't help but wonder how well they would have done unexpectedly facing down a loose shooter with an AR-15. Gun or no gun, that's a terrifying situation, enough to paralyze most normal people with fear.

Owning a gun and being able to use it effectively in a combat situation are two different things.
I think one of the most impressive shots was the usher in the church in Texas, when a would-be mass murderer whipped out a shotgun and shot someone in the church. An usher with a pistol headshotted him within a couple seconds from like 30 feet away while he was moving.
Have any mass shootings happened in "sketchy" areas?
Most of them, I think. They mainly happen in Chicago.
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Re: Colorado Grocery Store Mass Shooter

Post by dualstow » Fri Mar 26, 2021 8:09 pm

glennds wrote:
Fri Mar 26, 2021 5:28 pm
MangoMan wrote:
Fri Mar 26, 2021 3:54 pm


Same with the gun. My hood is safe, but I have one in the house just in case. No concealed carry permit, so I just don't go into sketchy areas. That's my own personal choice, not a commentary on anything else.
I would bet most people would consider the Colorado grocery store neighborhood to be as safe a hood as they come. But look what can happen anywhere. Plus, even if some or all of the grocery store patrons were carrying, I can't help but wonder how well they would have done unexpectedly facing down a loose shooter with an AR-15. Gun or no gun, that's a terrifying situation, enough to paralyze most normal people with fear.

Owning a gun and being able to use it effectively in a combat situation are two different things.

Have any mass shootings happened in "sketchy" areas?
Kriegs is right about that last question O0 but the mass shootings you're thinking of- the Joker in the movie theater, the guy shooting down into the crowd from his room in Las Vegas - you're right. There are some things that just happen and you cannot defend against them.
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Re: Colorado Grocery Store Mass Shooter

Post by dualstow » Fri Mar 26, 2021 8:21 pm

tomfoolery wrote:
Fri Mar 26, 2021 8:14 pm
dualstow wrote:
Fri Mar 26, 2021 8:09 pm
but the mass shootings you're thinking of- the Joker in the movie theater, the guy shooting down into the crowd from his room in Las Vegas - you're right. There are some things that just happen and you cannot defend against them.
So you don’t own a gun, have no training in firearms or defensive tactics, but are convinced some things just happen and you can’t do anything in those situations?

That’s like me saying if a plane engine goes out, there’s nothing a pilot can do. If a patient starts bleeding out during surgery, there’s nothing a surgeon can do. But I have no training as a pilot nor a surgeon.
I do have some training in firearms, Tom. I just don't own the guns I was shooting. My instructor owned them.
If you're asking me, would I prefer that there were some sheepdogs shooting back at the wolf, sure. The Joker had body armor, but..maybe.
The church example that Kriegs mentioned is a good one.
As for the crowd getting shot at in Las Vegas, c'mon. They didn't even know where the shots were coming from. All they could do was run.
If someone comes up and shoots you in the face while you're reading a book, there's nothing you can do.
There are some situations like that. Just stating the obvious. That doesn't mean a lot of people shouldn't buy guns and train to defend themselves.
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Re: Colorado Grocery Store Mass Shooter

Post by vnatale » Fri Mar 26, 2021 8:51 pm

dualstow wrote:
Fri Mar 26, 2021 8:21 pm

tomfoolery wrote:
Fri Mar 26, 2021 8:14 pm

dualstow wrote:
Fri Mar 26, 2021 8:09 pm

but the mass shootings you're thinking of- the Joker in the movie theater, the guy shooting down into the crowd from his room in Las Vegas - you're right. There are some things that just happen and you cannot defend against them.


So you don’t own a gun, have no training in firearms or defensive tactics, but are convinced some things just happen and you can’t do anything in those situations?

That’s like me saying if a plane engine goes out, there’s nothing a pilot can do. If a patient starts bleeding out during surgery, there’s nothing a surgeon can do. But I have no training as a pilot nor a surgeon.


I do have some training in firearms, Tom. I just don't own the guns I was shooting. My instructor owned them.
If you're asking me, would I prefer that there were some sheepdogs shooting back at the wolf, sure. The Joker had body armor, but..maybe.
The church example that Kriegs mentioned is a good one.
As for the crowd getting shot at in Las Vegas, c'mon. They didn't even know where the shots were coming from. All they could do was run.
If someone comes up and shoots you in the face while you're reading a book, there's nothing you can do.
There are some situations like that. Just stating the obvious. That doesn't mean a lot of people shouldn't buy guns and train to defend themselves.


Also...how many police..."the good guy with the gun"...have either been killed by the mass shooter or unable to bring it to an immediate stop once they are there?
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Re: Colorado Grocery Store Mass Shooter

Post by dualstow » Fri Mar 26, 2021 8:59 pm

Take over for me Vinny. O0 There seems to be some disconnect tonight and I should stop posting. Lucky for me, I probably won't have internet for a few days.
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Re: Colorado Grocery Store Mass Shooter

Post by SomeDude » Fri Mar 26, 2021 9:17 pm

I have 4 years training as an Army scout, and many growing up in the country hunting. What's the question?

Ohhhh AR-15's shouldn't scare anyone. All the really good white supremes have AK's.
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Re: Colorado Grocery Store Mass Shooter

Post by whatchamacallit » Fri Mar 26, 2021 11:00 pm

Tortoise wrote:
Thu Mar 25, 2021 8:04 pm
All black guns that look kind of scary, like I could picture a soldier carrying one, should be illegal for civilians to own.

Civilian guns should be made with non-threatening colors and patterns, the stocks should be made of wood or at least look like wood, and the overall appearance of the gun should be roughly “Western”, like something you’d see in an old Clint Eastwood flick.

That is how we will finally put an end to these mass shootings. We must take action now. Why are we even debating this?
I am not sure if this is serious or not but that is an interesting take.

Make all new guns bright red or something very visible.

I guess that would need to be tested to see if it makes any difference.

But if it alerts people's subconscious better than black to check if danger is present then it could be worth it.
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Re: Colorado Grocery Store Mass Shooter

Post by dualstow » Sat Mar 27, 2021 7:05 am

O0 Point taken. In a pinch, a weapon (and training to use it) is the only thing that will give you a fighting chance. Too late for a guard in that situation.
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Re: Colorado Grocery Store Mass Shooter

Post by Kriegsspiel » Sat Mar 27, 2021 9:43 am

Red and yellow tiger stripe ARs sound dope as fuck. That's pretty close to the red tiger stripe final locked weapon skin in the first COD:MW
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Re: Colorado Grocery Store Mass Shooter

Post by WiseOne » Sat Mar 27, 2021 10:13 am

dualstow wrote:
Fri Mar 26, 2021 8:59 pm
Take over for me Vinny. O0 There seems to be some disconnect tonight and I should stop posting. Lucky for me, I probably won't have internet for a few days.
Dualstow...sorry if you something I (or others) said offended you! Not intended at all.

I took the bodyguard app post as an indictment of how some neighborhoods have declined in the past year, due to the "racial justice" movement. The fact that such a service exists....wow.

It was great that you brought this to our attention. And, it's certainly an alternative to gun ownership & training in cities like mine, where that's basically impossible and we essentially have no second amendment rights. Good to know about.
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Re: Colorado Grocery Store Mass Shooter

Post by dualstow » Sat Mar 27, 2021 10:46 am

Not at all, WiseOne. It’s on me. I get highstrung before a flight. Thank you for being patient with me.
For those who have a gun and a license to carry ( or open carry) there is no substitute.
If you have to come back late at night from the airport or move a lot of gold at once, or whatever, a bodyguard who knows how to use a gun might come in handy.
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