Reasons why I will not be getting injected for the Wuhan

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Re: Reasons why I will not be getting injected for the Wuhan

Post by vnatale » Wed Jul 14, 2021 10:15 am

jalanlong wrote:
Wed Jul 14, 2021 9:56 am

Kbg wrote:
Wed Jul 14, 2021 9:22 am

The vaccine is out, people of any opinion on the issue can make their choice and deal with the consequences whatever they may be poked or not poked. Let freedom ring.



If it were as simple as personal choice then I would agree. But in the last week I have seen two different "medical experts" on CNN (not a fringe news site) say that the US needs to make vaccinations mandatory and that life for people who decline the vaccination should be made as hard as possible. Not to be outdone, in the last few days the White House has thrown out going door-to-door and monitoring text messages to dispel "vaccine misinformation." That doesn't count the dozens of average citizens who have gone on social media to claim anyone who has not taken the vaccine is an extremist and needs to be dealt with accordingly.

If they will let me be without my vaccine then I will gladly move on. Is that a deal?


Putting aside what has only been "thrown out" there and NOT actually done....where is there impingement of "freedom"?

Making an analogy to "freedom of speech". Everyone has the right to "freedom of speech". But that does not mean you also get no consequences to whatever you say using your "freedom of speech".

All those "average citizens" are exercising their "freedom of speech". We are all free to choose how we respond to what they say. Both what the media and citizens promulgate have no force of law.

It goes back to what Kbg posed above: '"deal with the consequences whatever "
Above provided by: Vinny, who always says: "I only regret that I have but one lap to give to my cats." AND "I'm a more-is-more person."
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Re: Reasons why I will not be getting injected for the Wuhan

Post by jalanlong » Wed Jul 14, 2021 10:18 am

vnatale wrote:
Wed Jul 14, 2021 10:15 am
jalanlong wrote:
Wed Jul 14, 2021 9:56 am
Kbg wrote:
Wed Jul 14, 2021 9:22 am
The vaccine is out, people of any opinion on the issue can make their choice and deal with the consequences whatever they may be poked or not poked. Let freedom ring.
If it were as simple as personal choice then I would agree. But in the last week I have seen two different "medical experts" on CNN (not a fringe news site) say that the US needs to make vaccinations mandatory and that life for people who decline the vaccination should be made as hard as possible. Not to be outdone, in the last few days the White House has thrown out going door-to-door and monitoring text messages to dispel "vaccine misinformation." That doesn't count the dozens of average citizens who have gone on social media to claim anyone who has not taken the vaccine is an extremist and needs to be dealt with accordingly.

If they will let me be without my vaccine then I will gladly move on. Is that a deal?
Putting aside what has only been "thrown out" there and NOT actually done....where is there impingement of "freedom"?

Making an analogy to "freedom of speech". Everyone has the right to "freedom of speech". But that does not mean you also get no consequences to whatever you say using your "freedom of speech".

All those "average citizens" are exercising their "freedom of speech". We are all free to choose how we respond to what they say. Both what the media and citizens promulgate have no force of law.

It goes back to what Kbg posed above: '"deal with the consequences whatever "
What KBG implied was that since it was a choice to get vaccinated or not, then we can all just make our choice and move on with our lives. If both sides agreed to that I would be fine. But threats of coercion from the media and politicians tell me that they are not just "letting it go." I guess you are suggesting that since they are just talking and not acting then we should just wait and show no opposition to their ideas until they actually implement them?
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Re: Reasons why I will not be getting injected for the Wuhan

Post by vnatale » Wed Jul 14, 2021 10:25 am

jalanlong wrote:
Wed Jul 14, 2021 10:18 am

vnatale wrote:
Wed Jul 14, 2021 10:15 am

jalanlong wrote:
Wed Jul 14, 2021 9:56 am

Kbg wrote:
Wed Jul 14, 2021 9:22 am

The vaccine is out, people of any opinion on the issue can make their choice and deal with the consequences whatever they may be poked or not poked. Let freedom ring.



If it were as simple as personal choice then I would agree. But in the last week I have seen two different "medical experts" on CNN (not a fringe news site) say that the US needs to make vaccinations mandatory and that life for people who decline the vaccination should be made as hard as possible. Not to be outdone, in the last few days the White House has thrown out going door-to-door and monitoring text messages to dispel "vaccine misinformation." That doesn't count the dozens of average citizens who have gone on social media to claim anyone who has not taken the vaccine is an extremist and needs to be dealt with accordingly.

If they will let me be without my vaccine then I will gladly move on. Is that a deal?


Putting aside what has only been "thrown out" there and NOT actually done....where is there impingement of "freedom"?

Making an analogy to "freedom of speech". Everyone has the right to "freedom of speech". But that does not mean you also get no consequences to whatever you say using your "freedom of speech".

All those "average citizens" are exercising their "freedom of speech". We are all free to choose how we respond to what they say. Both what the media and citizens promulgate have no force of law.

It goes back to what Kbg posed above: '"deal with the consequences whatever "


What KBG implied was that since it was a choice to get vaccinated or not, then we can all just make our choice and move on (and let this thread die off). If both side agreed to that I would be fine. But threats of coercion from the media and politicians tell me that they are not just "letting it go." I guess you are suggesting that since they are just talking and not acting then we should just wait and show no opposition to their ideas until they actually implement them?


No. Stating that both sides are free to exercise their freedoms.

All are free to do as you are citing. But you do not have to have to be acquiescent in this.

You are equally free to express your opposition to all they state whenever you want to.

Isn't that the way we all are supposed to behave in a free society? With the "best" ideas winning?

Otherwise when you stated above: "If they will let me be without my vaccine then I will gladly move on. Is that a deal?" there is a demand on your side that they do not say anything regarding the problems they see with people not being vaccinated.
Above provided by: Vinny, who always says: "I only regret that I have but one lap to give to my cats." AND "I'm a more-is-more person."
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Re: Reasons why I will not be getting injected for the Wuhan

Post by jalanlong » Wed Jul 14, 2021 10:30 am

vnatale wrote:
Wed Jul 14, 2021 10:25 am
jalanlong wrote:
Wed Jul 14, 2021 10:18 am
vnatale wrote:
Wed Jul 14, 2021 10:15 am
jalanlong wrote:
Wed Jul 14, 2021 9:56 am
Kbg wrote:
Wed Jul 14, 2021 9:22 am
The vaccine is out, people of any opinion on the issue can make their choice and deal with the consequences whatever they may be poked or not poked. Let freedom ring.
If it were as simple as personal choice then I would agree. But in the last week I have seen two different "medical experts" on CNN (not a fringe news site) say that the US needs to make vaccinations mandatory and that life for people who decline the vaccination should be made as hard as possible. Not to be outdone, in the last few days the White House has thrown out going door-to-door and monitoring text messages to dispel "vaccine misinformation." That doesn't count the dozens of average citizens who have gone on social media to claim anyone who has not taken the vaccine is an extremist and needs to be dealt with accordingly.

If they will let me be without my vaccine then I will gladly move on. Is that a deal?
Putting aside what has only been "thrown out" there and NOT actually done....where is there impingement of "freedom"?

Making an analogy to "freedom of speech". Everyone has the right to "freedom of speech". But that does not mean you also get no consequences to whatever you say using your "freedom of speech".

All those "average citizens" are exercising their "freedom of speech". We are all free to choose how we respond to what they say. Both what the media and citizens promulgate have no force of law.

It goes back to what Kbg posed above: '"deal with the consequences whatever "
What KBG implied was that since it was a choice to get vaccinated or not, then we can all just make our choice and move on (and let this thread die off). If both side agreed to that I would be fine. But threats of coercion from the media and politicians tell me that they are not just "letting it go." I guess you are suggesting that since they are just talking and not acting then we should just wait and show no opposition to their ideas until they actually implement them?
Otherwise when you stated above: "If they will let me be without my vaccine then I will gladly move on. Is that a deal?" there is a demand on your side that they do not say anything regarding the problems they see with people not being vaccinated.
There is a big difference to me between newspeople and politicians stating what they feel are problems with people not being vaccinated and suggesting that people need to be forced and their lives made difficult if they do not agree.
Simonjester wrote:
real freedom is doing what you are told to by the authorities... tyranny is using outdated notions to force people to accept that you have a choice..
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Re: Reasons why I will not be getting injected for the Wuhan

Post by Kbg » Wed Jul 14, 2021 1:15 pm

Someone call me when they are in jail for not getting vaccinated. At that point I'll become concerned. There is a legal difference between losing your freedom and being inconvenienced or denied options by not choosing to do something.

As a conservative, if you want to freak out about something that very well could impinge on your future freedoms I'd be way more concerned about the parliamentary procedure changes of the US Senate.
Simonjester wrote: exactly .... i was just being sarcastic.. i want my social credit score with government to be high too....
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Re: Reasons why I will not be getting injected for the Wuhan

Post by WiseOne » Wed Jul 14, 2021 1:59 pm

How I wish that Fauci and the media simply said the following:

The vaccine is ready for rollout. Yes we know that the usual clinical evaluation of the vaccines was cut short, because we wanted to make this available to the general population as soon as possible. It looks like short term side effects are annoying but overall the data we have so far indicate a reasonable level of safety, and the vaccines look like they work well. We of course have no data on long term effects, both for the novel mRNA vaccine technology and for the vaccines themselves.

Each person should weigh these against the very real risks of COVID. These of course depend strongly on age and health status, but everyone is potentially vulnerable. We will continue to provide information as it becomes available, and will also ensure that enough vaccines will be available for everyone who wants it.

Everyone please make your own decision and act accordingly. Talk to your doctor etc. It would be best for normal economic and social activity to begin to resume as the vaccine program gets underway, since we are aware that these lockdown measures are doing real economic, health and quality of life damage and that the longer they continue, the worse and more far reaching the damage will be. Here are some useful guidelines and an outline of the path back to normal, which should occur after everyone has had an opportunity to be vaccinated should they choose to do so. COVID will still of course be the endemic virus it has already become, and we will continue to study and develop new treatments and continue to make vaccines safe and available going forward.

I bet anything that a lot more people would have taken the vaccine if they'd said that, rather than the propagandized, coercive message they're sending instead. "We have insufficient data to support this statement but the vaccine is 100% safe!!! Anyone who doesn't get it is racist!!!! And will doom us all!!!! You should all be forced to take it at gunpoint!!!!!" Sorry but that's only going to make matters worse - as it already has.
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Re: Reasons why I will not be getting injected for the Wuhan

Post by stuper1 » Wed Jul 14, 2021 3:45 pm

WiseOne for Surgeon General. She has my vote.

You're 100% correct. I would be much more likely to get the vaccine with that type of messaging. If you try to force me with fear-mongering propaganda, forget it, that doesn't work with me. My big problem is that I know how to think for myself.
Last edited by stuper1 on Wed Jul 14, 2021 3:46 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Reasons why I will not be getting injected for the Wuhan

Post by Xan » Wed Jul 14, 2021 3:46 pm

stuper1 wrote:
Wed Jul 14, 2021 3:45 pm
WiseOne for Surgeon General. She has my vote.

You're 100% correct. I would be much more likely to get the vaccine with that type of messaging. If you try to force me with fear-mongering propaganda, forget it, that doesn't work with me.
So your decision is based on the tone of the delivery rather than on facts?
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Re: Reasons why I will not be getting injected for the Wuhan

Post by stuper1 » Wed Jul 14, 2021 3:48 pm

Xan wrote:
Wed Jul 14, 2021 3:46 pm
stuper1 wrote:
Wed Jul 14, 2021 3:45 pm
WiseOne for Surgeon General. She has my vote.

You're 100% correct. I would be much more likely to get the vaccine with that type of messaging. If you try to force me with fear-mongering propaganda, forget it, that doesn't work with me.
So your decision is based on the tone of the delivery rather than on facts?
To re-state my personal reasons: I'm in my mid-50s and in good health. My risk of severe illness from Covid is virtually zero. My risk from an experimental, not-fully-tested vaccine is unknown. Why on earth would I want to take an unknown risk?

Having said that, if the messaging comes across to me as coercive, then I just dig my heels in further. That's just how I am.
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Re: Reasons why I will not be getting injected for the Wuhan

Post by murphy_p_t » Wed Jul 14, 2021 4:03 pm

WiseOne highlights quite well one of the most relevant facts... That the powers that be have used deceptive methods to impose their will upon the population.

For critical thinking people, that data point alone is sufficient reason to question the motives of the powers that be.
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Re: Reasons why I will not be getting injected for the Wuhan

Post by Xan » Wed Jul 14, 2021 4:12 pm

murphy_p_t wrote:
Wed Jul 14, 2021 4:03 pm
WiseOne highlights quite well one of the most relevant facts... That the powers that be have used deceptive methods to impose their will upon the population.

For critical thinking people, that data point alone is sufficient reason to question the motives of the powers that be.
That may be true. And yet, if you let that drive you straight to Natural "News", you've gone from the deception frying pan into the fire.
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Re: Reasons why I will not be getting injected for the Wuhan

Post by murphy_p_t » Wed Jul 14, 2021 4:14 pm

I should have added coercive and manipulative... Even abusive, to describe the imposition of covidism.
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Re: Reasons why I will not be getting injected for the Wuhan

Post by Maddy » Wed Jul 14, 2021 4:17 pm

Xan wrote:
Wed Jul 14, 2021 3:46 pm
stuper1 wrote:
Wed Jul 14, 2021 3:45 pm
WiseOne for Surgeon General. She has my vote.

You're 100% correct. I would be much more likely to get the vaccine with that type of messaging. If you try to force me with fear-mongering propaganda, forget it, that doesn't work with me.
So your decision is based on the tone of the delivery rather than on facts?
The word "tone" doesn't go nearly far enough in describing the government's delivery. I'm talking about everything from pseudoscientific claims that can only be described as "voodoo medicine" to flat-out economic coercion, surveillance and censoring of text messages that question the official narrative, labeling of opponents as "domestic terrorists," threats of a second nationwide lock-down, and even the suggestion on the part of power-drunk bureaucrats that unvaccinated parents should lose custody of their children. When a government acts in such a bizarrely deceptive, authoritarian manner when promoting something that should be able to stand on its own merit, you'd be crazy NOT to regard those circumstances as bearing strongly on its credibility and to seriously question exactly what agenda it is pursuing. These are perhaps the most important "facts" of all.
Last edited by Maddy on Wed Jul 14, 2021 4:52 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Reasons why I will not be getting injected for the Wuhan

Post by murphy_p_t » Wed Jul 14, 2021 4:19 pm

x1000

Critical thinking people recognize exactly what you state so well.
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Re: Reasons why I will not be getting injected for the Wuhan

Post by murphy_p_t » Wed Jul 14, 2021 4:25 pm

I am edified to hear from independent thinkers who refuse to genuflect to moral extortion
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Re: Reasons why I will not be getting injected for the Wuhan

Post by Xan » Wed Jul 14, 2021 4:40 pm

murphy_p_t wrote:
Wed Jul 14, 2021 4:25 pm
I am edified to hear from independent thinkers who refuse to genuflect to moral extortion
The person who unquestioningly does whatever "they" say is equally as blind as the one who unthinkingly does the opposite. Neither is engaging in critical thinking. Both are equally controlled by "them".
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Re: Reasons why I will not be getting injected for the Wuhan

Post by Maddy » Wed Jul 14, 2021 4:58 pm

Remember, these are the same government officials who were preventing people from going to church while giving the green light to anonymous internet "hook-ups." It's all about credibility. It always is.
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Re: Reasons why I will not be getting injected for the Wuhan

Post by murphy_p_t » Wed Jul 14, 2021 5:04 pm

Yep...

Don are the covidian garment of submission (face diaper) and fornicate with perfect strangers to your heart's content.
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Re: Reasons why I will not be getting injected for the Wuhan

Post by Cortopassi » Wed Jul 14, 2021 6:40 pm

And to think I came back to this... :o
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Re: Reasons why I will not be getting injected for the Wuhan

Post by Maddy » Wed Jul 14, 2021 6:53 pm

Whadda ya mean? Nobody but us neanderthals here, scratching our asses.
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Re: Reasons why I will not be getting injected for the Wuhan

Post by jalanlong » Wed Jul 14, 2021 7:11 pm

Maddy wrote:
Wed Jul 14, 2021 6:53 pm
Whadda ya mean? Nobody but us neanderthals here, scratching our asses.
Most of us don’t even have the ability to make copies of our IDs if the need arose.
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Re: Reasons why I will not be getting injected for the Wuhan

Post by WiseOne » Wed Jul 14, 2021 7:17 pm

Xan wrote:
Wed Jul 14, 2021 3:46 pm
stuper1 wrote:
Wed Jul 14, 2021 3:45 pm
WiseOne for Surgeon General. She has my vote.

You're 100% correct. I would be much more likely to get the vaccine with that type of messaging. If you try to force me with fear-mongering propaganda, forget it, that doesn't work with me.
So your decision is based on the tone of the delivery rather than on facts?
So what facts are you referring to Xan, to back up your support of the coercive, propagandized approach? If I interpreted your message correctly.

I second what the others have said: an authoritarian message and the use (or threat) of force is always going to make people suspicious. Remember the Soviet Union's official newspaper, Pravda? That means "Truth". Let's say they printed a story that was, in fact, true. How many people would believe the story? Very few, I'm guessing. But if the exact same story ran in a paper like, say, the Wall Street Journal, most readers would believe it. So yes, "tone" is important.
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Re: Reasons why I will not be getting injected for the Wuhan

Post by Xan » Wed Jul 14, 2021 7:47 pm

WiseOne wrote:
Wed Jul 14, 2021 7:17 pm
Xan wrote:
Wed Jul 14, 2021 3:46 pm
stuper1 wrote:
Wed Jul 14, 2021 3:45 pm
WiseOne for Surgeon General. She has my vote.

You're 100% correct. I would be much more likely to get the vaccine with that type of messaging. If you try to force me with fear-mongering propaganda, forget it, that doesn't work with me.
So your decision is based on the tone of the delivery rather than on facts?
So what facts are you referring to Xan, to back up your support of the coercive, propagandized approach? If I interpreted your message correctly.

I second what the others have said: an authoritarian message and the use (or threat) of force is always going to make people suspicious. Remember the Soviet Union's official newspaper, Pravda? That means "Truth". Let's say they printed a story that was, in fact, true. How many people would believe the story? Very few, I'm guessing. But if the exact same story ran in a paper like, say, the Wall Street Journal, most readers would believe it. So yes, "tone" is important.
I'm not advocating coercion or propaganda, although the definitions of such certainly depend on one's perspective. I'm just saying that something might be a good idea despite being pushed by such methods.
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Re: Reasons why I will not be getting injected for the Wuhan

Post by vnatale » Wed Jul 14, 2021 7:58 pm

From Wolfe's latest book on Trump...what was being presented to him a meeting last July 20th.....I do not subscribe to the belief that nearly the entire popular including the majority of Trump supporters were somehow all brainwashed by certain entities into believing the way these polls described....

Vinny


It was plain, and Fabrizio spelled out the numbers almost with delight: a large majority of voters saw masks and testing as the way to open the economy, with nearly 70 percent of voters in agreement on this. When the president was perceived as taking COVID seriously, his approval ratings spiked. Most people blamed the spread of the virus on the lack of social distancing and failure to wear masks; most voters and a majority of Trump voters favored requiring masks to keep the country open; most favored an executive order requiring masks for indoor public places; two-thirds of Trump voters thought the president’s wearing a mask would set a good example and be an act of patriotism; and eight of ten of Trump voters supported wearing masks as a preventative measure.

There really wasn’t any room for debate.

“This is a no-brainer,” said Kushner, seemingly awestruck by the numbers, wandering in and suddenly paying attention to the meeting.

Even McLaughlin came down clearly in favor, at the very least, of less hostility toward masks, suggesting an indoor mask mandate in federal buildings.
Last edited by vnatale on Wed Jul 14, 2021 8:00 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Above provided by: Vinny, who always says: "I only regret that I have but one lap to give to my cats." AND "I'm a more-is-more person."
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Re: Reasons why I will not be getting injected for the Wuhan

Post by Cortopassi » Wed Jul 14, 2021 8:14 pm

WiseOne,

Your statements would have been exactly what I would have wanted to hear, and I think a large percentage of the center left to center right.

But everything nowadays is a crisis. Everything. It's like a similar stance on climate change. Whether you believe it is man-made or not, we can all try to move toward sustainability. Not a crazy position that the earth only has twelve more years.

This forum is exactly how the country is, in general. Loud voices on one side of an issue feeling they have to battle to the death with the loud voices in the other side. With a lot in the middle wishing we could meet versus fighting.

Wish I knew how to change that. Can't change even a couple minds here, much less millions out in the country.

I couldn't care less if someone gets vaccinated or not. Now that it's available and apparently very effective, everyone should move to that position and let things go where they may.
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