Mark Leavy wrote: ↑Thu Feb 03, 2022 8:08 pm
…
It does't work in the same way that we have historically thought of vaccines. (i.e. You can still catch it and you can still spread it.)
Even though i don’t put much trust in murphy’s links, I have often watched the news unfold, the replays of Rachel Maddow saying ‘now we know the virus will stop with the vaccine’ and thinking to myself, You know what? he’s* got to feel pretty validated right now. And he should. The links don’t matter.
I still got the vax (twice, not the 3rd or 4th) because I still believe it makes covid less lethal. But I don’t know what to believe at this point.
*Murphy
9pm EST Explosions in Iran (Isfahan) and Syria and Iraq. Not yet confirmed.
Mark Leavy wrote: ↑Thu Feb 03, 2022 8:08 pm
I don't think the vax is any vast conspiracy theory. But I do have a few issues.
It was pushed through post haste. No approval - only an emergency use declaration.
There seemed to be some money changing hands.
It does't work in the same way that we have historically thought of vaccines. (i.e. You can still catch it and you can still spread it.)
So... It seems reasonable for reasonable people to say WTF?
The Pfizer one has been approved for quite a while now.
It does work the way that vaccines for mucosal, respiratory viruses do. For example the flu vaccine. Doesn't completely prevent catching and spreading, because the thing lives in your nose at the start. But it does reduce the severity, lethality, and duration.
I'm not saying that means it is or isn't worth getting. I don't believe there's a significant enough community benefit to an individual being vaccinated to do any kind of coercion.
Mark Leavy wrote: ↑Thu Feb 03, 2022 8:08 pm
I don't think the vax is any vast conspiracy theory. But I do have a few issues.
It was pushed through post haste. No approval - only an emergency use declaration.
There seemed to be some money changing hands.
It does't work in the same way that we have historically thought of vaccines. (i.e. You can still catch it and you can still spread it.)
So... It seems reasonable for reasonable people to say WTF?
The Pfizer one has been approved for quite a while now.
It does work the way that vaccines for mucosal, respiratory viruses do. For example the flu vaccine. Doesn't completely prevent catching and spreading, because the thing lives in your nose at the start. But it does reduce the severity, lethality, and duration.
I'm not saying that means it is or isn't worth getting. I don't believe there's a significant enough community benefit to an individual being vaccinated to do any kind of coercion.
I am still flabbergasted that after we know that it does not prevent you from getting it or spreading it, that it is still required at restaurants, sporting events and concerts. You could stretch and say we require it at work because we dont want employees being out of work for 2 weeks with this virus. But that is about it. Why on earth do I need this vaccination to go into a restaurant to eat or even pick up something?
Dualstow...Thank you for the kind words. Rather than feeling validated or vindicated, I feel disappointment that it's taking people so long to see what is before their face.
murphy_p_t wrote: ↑Fri Feb 04, 2022 11:12 am
Dualstow...Thank you for the kind words. Rather than feeling validated or vindicated, I feel disappointment that it's taking people so long to see what is before their face.
...
A part of science is admitting mistakes as new things are learned, so I’m learning along with the class, if slowly.
But, I think jalanlong has a point about these requirements, for example, to dine in a restaurant. Where I live it's not up to the restaurant. Every restaurant in the city must require proof of vaccination if they want to stay open. Totally illogical, knowing what we now know.
I have skirted the whole issue by only dining outdoors, even in winter. (Wife is not quite immunocompromised, but will not eat indoors). Even when I eat with friends without her, I eat outside.
9pm EST Explosions in Iran (Isfahan) and Syria and Iraq. Not yet confirmed.
murphy_p_t wrote: ↑Fri Feb 04, 2022 11:28 am
And what's worse is every time someone wears the a muzzle or presents the vaxx card... They are collaborating with and enabling the dictatorship.
I disagree with you there. I've seen enough suffering to know that if I can avoid getting it, I want to do that. Especially since I have some problems with respiratory bugs. So during the Omicron outbreak, I figure even though I hate wearing the mask, I can wear an N95 when I have to go into stores for the several biggest weeks. I am doing it to protect myself, and I don't care what the optics are. But I can't wait to stop. I think I'll feel good about stopping in another week or two.
murphy_p_t wrote: ↑Fri Feb 04, 2022 2:45 pm
It's saddens me that the authorities spread panic and pseudoscience... Which has been so effective at instilling fear.
Spreading panic and pseudoscience? What do you think you're doing when you make outlandish claims about vaccines? Just as a fer'instance, that they are designed to commit genocide against the human race?
Masks are really for infected people to prevent them from spreading infection to people who are not infected rather than protecting uninfected people from acquiring infection.”
“The typical mask you buy in the drug store is not really effective in keeping out virus, which is small enough to pass through the material. It might, however, provide some slight benefit in keep[ing] out gross droplets if someone coughs or sneezes on you. I do not recommend that you wear a mask
murphy_p_t wrote: ↑Fri Feb 04, 2022 2:45 pm
It's saddens me that the authorities spread panic and pseudoscience... Which has been so effective at instilling fear.
Spreading panic and pseudoscience? What do you think you're doing when you make outlandish claims about vaccines? Just as a fer'instance, that they are designed to commit genocide against the human race?
murphy_p_t wrote: ↑Fri Feb 04, 2022 2:45 pm
It's saddens me that the authorities spread panic and pseudoscience... Which has been so effective at instilling fear.
Spreading panic and pseudoscience? What do you think you're doing when you make outlandish claims about vaccines? Just as a fer'instance, that they are designed to commit genocide against the human race?
X
Last edited by Don on Mon Feb 07, 2022 11:45 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Mark Leavy wrote: ↑Thu Feb 03, 2022 8:08 pm
I don't think the vax is any vast conspiracy theory. But I do have a few issues.
It was pushed through post haste. No approval - only an emergency use declaration.
There seemed to be some money changing hands.
It does't work in the same way that we have historically thought of vaccines. (i.e. You can still catch it and you can still spread it.)
So... It seems reasonable for reasonable people to say WTF?
The Pfizer one has been approved for quite a while now.
It does work the way that vaccines for mucosal, respiratory viruses do. For example the flu vaccine. Doesn't completely prevent catching and spreading, because the thing lives in your nose at the start. But it does reduce the severity, lethality, and duration.
I'm not saying that means it is or isn't worth getting. I don't believe there's a significant enough community benefit to an individual being vaccinated to do any kind of coercion.
I am still flabbergasted that after we know that it does not prevent you from getting it or spreading it, that it is still required at restaurants, sporting events and concerts. You could stretch and say we require it at work because we dont want employees being out of work for 2 weeks with this virus. But that is about it. Why on earth do I need this vaccination to go into a restaurant to eat or even pick up something?
Yesterday I went to hear live music at a place I regularly go here live music. The last time I went was December 16th. For that time and time prior you had to show your vaccination card.
Last night no one seemed interested in seeing it.
Above provided by: Vinny, who always says: "I only regret that I have but one lap to give to my cats." AND "I'm a more-is-more person."
dualstow wrote: ↑Sat Feb 05, 2022 9:20 am
Really, Don? It seems like people have to go out of their way to get banned on this forum.
I got to spend a week in The penalty box.
It was on this particular thread sometime ago that I was saying things the administrator did not approve.
Or perhaps responded with silence to Xan?
As I said at the time, your opinion was welcome but your tactics were not.
Murphy, you're getting really close to trolling. You are continually not debating in good faith. You are unwilling to ever give an inch. You do not engage, you snipe. You are being, best I can tell, intentionally obtuse when it suits your purpose.
I guess the lesson was lost if you think it was because I disagreed with you.
dualstow wrote: ↑Sat Feb 05, 2022 9:20 am
Really, Don? It seems like people have to go out of their way to get banned on this forum.
I got to spend a week in The penalty box.
It was on this particular thread sometime ago that I was saying things the administrator did not approve.
Or perhaps responded with silence to Xan?
It's nothing against Xan, but being an administrator can sometimes bring the dark side out in people.
I will cheerfully refund your money! Just email the complaints department. :-)
.
Xan, FWIW, I think you do an admirable job of moderating this forum. I'm sure it has its rewards as well as a few bummer moments. Thus, your big bucks salary is well worth it to this Xan-fanboy. By the way, I also like Apple products - does that make me an Apple fanboy too?
.
DNA has its own language (code), and language requires intelligence. There is no known mechanism by which matter can give birth to information, let alone language. It is unreasonable to believe the world could have happened by chance.
dualstow wrote: ↑Sat Feb 05, 2022 9:20 am
Really, Don? It seems like people have to go out of their way to get banned on this forum.
I got to spend a week in The penalty box.
It was on this particular thread sometime ago that I was saying things the administrator did not approve.
Or perhaps responded with silence to Xan?
It's nothing against Xan, but being an administrator can sometimes bring the dark side out in people.
There is that famous quote by Machiavelli: "Absolute power corrupts absolutely"
However, I believe the counter quote by Robert Caro (the eminent biographer of Lyndon Johnson): "Power reveals".
In other words when one has power one reveals who one really is.
I am happy with the person that Xan has revealed himself to be here. He's struck the proper balance between treating us all like adults but also stepping in at the rare times when necessary.
Above provided by: Vinny, who always says: "I only regret that I have but one lap to give to my cats." AND "I'm a more-is-more person."
Desert wrote: ↑Sun Feb 06, 2022 9:34 am
Forum entropy naturally increases over time. Conspiracy trolls can easily overwhelm the conversations here. Some self restraint and human decency would go a long way in keeping this a reasonable forum. When folks prove repeatedly that they're unwilling to honestly discuss a topic, I fully support Xan handing out timeouts.
W
Last edited by Don on Mon Feb 07, 2022 11:46 pm, edited 1 time in total.