Reasons why I will not be getting injected for the Wuhan

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murphy_p_t
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Re: Reasons why I will not be getting injected for the Wuhan

Post by murphy_p_t » Wed Dec 01, 2021 10:08 pm

Today's reminder that the regime wants you dead.

The virus exists, but the pandemic mainly exists between your ears.

https://www.zerohedge.com/covid-19/dyin ... ivermectin
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Re: Reasons why I will not be getting injected for the Wuhan

Post by D1984 » Wed Dec 01, 2021 11:13 pm

murphy_p_t wrote:
Wed Dec 01, 2021 10:08 pm
Today's reminder that the regime wants you dead.

The virus exists, but the pandemic mainly exists between your ears.

https://www.zerohedge.com/covid-19/dyin ... ivermectin
My own personal opinion is that if someone wants to use ivermectin--or fluvoxamine, or disulfiram, or remdesivir, or molnuporavir--for COVID-19 (or for any other disease or condition) that is between them and their doctor (or between them and their farm supply store if they wish to go the OTC route in the case of ivermectin). I would also note that except in cases of stupidly high levels of overdoses of ivermectin the side effects are generally mild and as such this is a fairly safe compound as far as pharmaceuticals go. With that said:

1. Zero Hedge isn't exactly a reliable source of information

2. The Epoch Times is a Falun Gong influence peddling broadsheet masquerading as an actual newspaper.

3. Whoever wrote this article doesn't seem to understand the difference between causation and correlation (or for that matter doesn't seem to understand that "anecdote does not equal data" ). Just because the patient took ivermectin and the recovered doesn't mean the ivermectin necessarily caused it. It may have caused it (or at least helped cause it) but he also may have gotten better anyway even without it. There are clinical trials ongoing to see if ivermectin is actually effective against COVID-19; hopefully when those are fully completed we will know whether it is effective and if so how effective is it vs other drugs and vs supportive care only. Until then, if someone wants to take it for COVID, more power to them and I wish them the best of luck, but don't go around pretending like is is proven as a cure or treatment.

4. There is a rather obvious and (relatively) quick way to see if Ivermectin works for COVID-19 but due to ethical controls around clinical trials it can't be done.....unless you and a few thousand other people who are unvaccinated will volunteer to be willingly infected via a very heavy exposure to delta-variant COVID, confined in a building and monitored 24/7, split into a (blinded) treatment arm/placebo arm with roughly equal age/sex/healthiness levels in each arm, neither arm gets any form of supportive care and the treatment arm gets ivermectin and the placebo arm gets inert cellulose or sugar tablets instead, and we see how many people die in the treatment (i.e. got ivermectin) arm vs the placebo (i.e. got inert pills) arm. Like I said, there are rather blindingly obvious ethical reasons we cannot conduct such a trial...but if we could it would solve the "ivermection....does it work for COVID or not?" question once and for all.
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Re: Reasons why I will not be getting injected for the Wuhan

Post by murphy_p_t » Thu Dec 02, 2021 8:33 am

Ethical reasons. Perhaps.

Seems there's bigger concern that it will be proven to be safe and effective. Will have a detrimental effect on the regime's programming for the last 18 months.
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Re: Reasons why I will not be getting injected for the Wuhan

Post by Xan » Thu Dec 02, 2021 9:32 am

Could you describe when HCQ is indicated versus when Ivermectin is indicated?
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Re: Reasons why I will not be getting injected for the Wuhan

Post by pp4me » Thu Dec 02, 2021 9:44 am

Pfizer COVID-19 vaccine linked to rare cases of eye inflammation - study

https://www.jpost.com/health-science/pf ... udy-675839

Mountaineer, his wife, and me as noted in this forum alone. So how rare is it really? Most people probably don't relate it to the shots so it never gets reported.

I also just recalled that exactly 45 days after the second jab I woke up one morning with what I thought was vertigo at the time. I could barely walk in a straight line for most of the day. I didn't link that to the vaccine because it was so long afterwards but I read somewhere that's about the usual time for this to show up.

I'm also reading about the "rare" side-effect of heart attacks.
Last edited by pp4me on Thu Dec 02, 2021 9:47 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Reasons why I will not be getting injected for the Wuhan

Post by Kbg » Thu Dec 02, 2021 9:46 am

Going to facts here's the bottom line:

Ivermetcin studies range anywhere from it may work to it doesn't work. The jury is still out.

COVID specific vaccines work at the reported efficacy with the reported side effects. The most studied vaccine ever (by far).

If I'm over 40-50 and make evidence based decisions, this one isn't hard. (However, if you really think taking a drug made for animal deworming is a super great idea that sticks it to big pharma...knock yourself out.)

Speaking of big pharma...these guys DO make ivermetcin and previously they did NOT make a COVID vaccine (but are now in the game with a pill that barely received COVID treatment approval recently)

https://www.merck.com/news/merck-statem ... -pandemic/

What???? Ivermetcin has side effects???
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Re: Reasons why I will not be getting injected for the Wuhan

Post by flyingpylon » Thu Dec 02, 2021 11:17 am

Kbg wrote:
Thu Dec 02, 2021 9:46 am
However, if you really think taking a drug made for animal deworming is a super great idea that sticks it to big pharma...knock yourself out.
This statement undermines (at the very least) anything else you have to say about the topic.
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Re: Reasons why I will not be getting injected for the Wuhan

Post by Cortopassi » Thu Dec 02, 2021 1:33 pm

I am going to plead ignorance again here.

--Why HCQ originally? Were there some long ago studies and analysis that led some to believe it could help Covid?
--Same question for Ivermectin.

I have no skin in the game either way, but even with my ignorance, I have to believe that billions of dollars and millions of man hours have been spent on studying and proving out the vaccine, so, if I am prone to wanting something to protect myself, why would I not choose the vaccine over relatively unstudied and less effective methods?

I see two answers coming:

1) The pharmaceutical companies are making a shitload more money on the vaccines. Could be a valid reason
2) The pharmaceutical companies are in cahoots with the powers that be to reduce world population.
3) ??
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Re: Reasons why I will not be getting injected for the Wuhan

Post by Hal » Thu Dec 02, 2021 2:39 pm

Cortopassi wrote:
Thu Dec 02, 2021 1:33 pm
I am going to plead ignorance again here.

--Why HCQ originally? Were there some long ago studies and analysis that led some to believe it could help Covid?
--Same question for Ivermectin.

I have no skin in the game either way, but even with my ignorance, I have to believe that billions of dollars and millions of man hours have been spent on studying and proving out the vaccine, so, if I am prone to wanting something to protect myself, why would I not choose the vaccine over relatively unstudied and less effective methods?

I see two answers coming:

1) The pharmaceutical companies are making a shitload more money on the vaccines. Could be a valid reason
2) The pharmaceutical companies are in cahoots with the powers that be to reduce world population.
3) ??
3) Government mandates will lead to determining the answer to 1/2 above much more difficult.....
How is making people lose their jobs, or beating the cr#p out of them in demonstrations, good for their citizens health?

Likewise I have no skin in the game, but I am also interested in the answers to 1 - 3
Aussie GoldSmithPP - 25% PMGOLD, 75% VDCO
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Re: Reasons why I will not be getting injected for the Wuhan

Post by pp4me » Thu Dec 02, 2021 3:52 pm

MangoMan wrote:
Thu Dec 02, 2021 11:39 am
Kbg wrote:
Thu Dec 02, 2021 9:46 am
Going to facts here's the bottom line:

Ivermetcin studies range anywhere from it may work to it doesn't work. The jury is still out.

(However, if you really think taking a drug made for animal deworming is a super great idea that sticks it to big pharma...knock yourself out.)

Agree with Flyingpython. The first comment was rational, the second one sounded like a left wing media talking point. You can do better.
Me too. I don't believe the drug was made for the purpose of being a horse de-wormer. CNN and the CDC labelled it as such which makes them birds of a feather as far as I'm concerned. Kbg can fact check and share it with us if he likes.

My own theory about why these therapeutics like HCQ and Ivermetcin don't pan out in clinical trials is because they have inflammatory effects that work in some people and not in others and also it depends on what stage of the virus a person is in when they are deployed.

I would take either one or both if I got COVID. When admistered by a doctor it is my understanding that they have been around a long time and are very safe. Demonizing them may or may not have cost some lives but I suspect the former is true. I also suspect we'll never know the answer for sure.
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Re: Reasons why I will not be getting injected for the Wuhan

Post by whatchamacallit » Thu Dec 02, 2021 5:02 pm

Quick Google search returned this article as top result. From what I have seen, I do believe lives were lost by refusal to administer ivermectin.

https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/a ... rss_sd_all

Highlights

Drug repositioning is a useful and effective means for Covid-19 antiviral drug discovery.


Ivermectin has proven effective for HIV-1, Adenovirus, Influenza virus, SARS-CoV, and many more, in the past.


Due to genomic similarity between SARS-CoV-2 and the SARS-CoV, IMPα/β1 complex for viral protein (NSP12-RdRp) shuttling holds great potential.


Ivermectin also exhibits great potential in reducing SARS-CoV-2 viral replication via numerous modes of action.


https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/a ... rss_sd_all
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Re: Reasons why I will not be getting injected for the Wuhan

Post by murphy_p_t » Thu Dec 02, 2021 9:11 pm

https://www.lewrockwell.com/political-t ... till-2076/

Pfizer Knew in February the Shots Were Maiming/Killing Lots of People, But They Pushed for FDA Approval Anyway, and Tried To Delay Releasing Data Till 2076
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Re: Reasons why I will not be getting injected for the Wuhan

Post by murphy_p_t » Fri Dec 03, 2021 6:04 am

Cortopassi wrote:
Thu Dec 02, 2021 1:33 pm
I am going to plead ignorance again here.

--Why HCQ originally? Were there some long ago studies and analysis that led some to believe it could help Covid?
--Same question for Ivermectin.

I have no skin in the game either way, but even with my ignorance, I have to believe that billions of dollars and millions of man hours have been spent on studying and proving out the vaccine, so, if I am prone to wanting something to protect myself, why would I not choose the vaccine over relatively unstudied and less effective methods?

I see two answers coming:

1) The pharmaceutical companies are making a shitload more money on the vaccines. Could be a valid reason
2) The pharmaceutical companies are in cahoots with the powers that be to reduce world population.
3) ??
Why do you trust anything which the regime is force feeding you?

Others have provided indictments against the regime, demonstrating that their messaging is full of lies and propaganda.
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Re: Reasons why I will not be getting injected for the Wuhan

Post by murphy_p_t » Fri Dec 03, 2021 7:59 am

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Re: Reasons why I will not be getting injected for the Wuhan

Post by Kbg » Sat Dec 04, 2021 10:04 pm

pp4me wrote:
Thu Dec 02, 2021 3:52 pm
MangoMan wrote:
Thu Dec 02, 2021 11:39 am
Kbg wrote:
Thu Dec 02, 2021 9:46 am
Going to facts here's the bottom line:

Ivermetcin studies range anywhere from it may work to it doesn't work. The jury is still out.

(However, if you really think taking a drug made for animal deworming is a super great idea that sticks it to big pharma...knock yourself out.)

Agree with Flyingpython. The first comment was rational, the second one sounded like a left wing media talking point. You can do better.
Me too. I don't believe the drug was made for the purpose of being a horse de-wormer. CNN and the CDC labelled it as such which makes them birds of a feather as far as I'm concerned. Kbg can fact check and share it with us if he likes.

My own theory about why these therapeutics like HCQ and Ivermetcin don't pan out in clinical trials is because they have inflammatory effects that work in some people and not in others and also it depends on what stage of the virus a person is in when they are deployed.

I would take either one or both if I got COVID. When admistered by a doctor it is my understanding that they have been around a long time and are very safe. Demonizing them may or may not have cost some lives but I suspect the former is true. I also suspect we'll never know the answer for sure.
Here ya go. If the wikipedia entry isn't accurate time for you guys to do some research and disprove what I posted. (But trust me, you will not win this one. The history is the history stated.)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ivermectin

Fellas, love the standard MO which is well known and predictable. When you can't deal with the truth attack the messenger or then say the source isn't credible.

Back to my point made earlier...the one about critical thinking skills.

This is no longer Dec 2019 - Mar 2020 when everyone was trying to figure things out.

I'll give you guys an A+ for delusional persistence though! (I know this last skates close to not being nice/a personal attack, but really guys give it up. You're just wrong and the vast body of evidence just doesn't support what you're saying any longer. Honestly, what gives you the energy and motivation to even keep this up? I find it completely bizarre now.)
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Re: Reasons why I will not be getting injected for the Wuhan

Post by whatchamacallit » Sun Dec 05, 2021 12:54 am

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC8248252/

Conclusions:
Moderate-certainty evidence finds that large reductions in COVID-19 deaths are possible using ivermectin. Using ivermectin early in the clinical course may reduce numbers progressing to severe disease. The apparent safety and low cost suggest that ivermectin is likely to have a significant impact on the SARS-CoV-2 pandemic globally.
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Re: Reasons why I will not be getting injected for the Wuhan

Post by flyingpylon » Sun Dec 05, 2021 7:21 am

Kbg wrote:
Sat Dec 04, 2021 10:04 pm
Here ya go. If the wikipedia entry isn't accurate time for you guys to do some research and disprove what I posted. (But trust me, you will not win this one. The history is the history stated.)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ivermectin

Fellas, love the standard MO which is well known and predictable. When you can't deal with the truth attack the messenger or then say the source isn't credible.

Back to my point made earlier...the one about critical thinking skills.

This is no longer Dec 2019 - Mar 2020 when everyone was trying to figure things out.

I'll give you guys an A+ for delusional persistence though! (I know this last skates close to not being nice/a personal attack, but really guys give it up. You're just wrong and the vast body of evidence just doesn't support what you're saying any longer. Honestly, what gives you the energy and motivation to even keep this up? I find it completely bizarre now.)
The issue is not whether ivermectin is used for veterinary purposes. Clearly it is, just like other drugs that are used to treat both humans and animals.

The issue is also not whether ivermectin is safe and effective in the treatment of Covid. Obviously there is debate about that.

The issue is the use of the deceptive narrative that it's stupid to take horse dewormer for Covid. It reveals a lack of understanding and a disinterest in reasoned discussion.

Of course you're free to have your own opinion on ivermectin, but the way you've chosen to express it is entirely unhelpful. As mentioned earlier, it undermines anything else you have to say and the post above just reinforces that.
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Re: Reasons why I will not be getting injected for the Wuhan

Post by Kbg » Mon Dec 06, 2021 9:25 am

I understand what you guys are saying, and at the end of the day Ivermetcin may work. You guys stating this is both accurate and fair.

However may I add a small but? What is the logic or common sense of hoping something may work which won't be proven for however long it takes vs. going with something that does work and side effects that are completely within vaccine norms?

Spock to Kirk: Captain, illogical.

Step back and ask yourself, would you be this fired up about the above if we took the drug names and the politics out? I think we both know that answer.
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Re: Reasons why I will not be getting injected for the Wuhan

Post by flyingpylon » Mon Dec 06, 2021 10:53 am

Kbg wrote:
Mon Dec 06, 2021 9:25 am
What is the logic or common sense of hoping something may work which won't be proven for however long it takes vs. going with something that does work and side effects that are completely within vaccine norms?
Many people have looked beyond the official narrative and have found that none of this is as cut-and-dry as you make it seem. Some would say you have it completely backwards. The short version would be that the Covid vaccines are effective against severe symptoms (at least temporarily) but ultimately may not be safe, while early treatment protocols that include ivermectin are safe but may or may not be effective. It's not universally accepted that the short-term side effect data for the Covid vaccines is within "vaccine norms" and there simply is no long-term data at all.
Kbg wrote:
Mon Dec 06, 2021 9:25 am
Step back and ask yourself, would you be this fired up about the above if we took the drug names and the politics out? I think we both know that answer.
My observation is that for most people concerned about the vaccines it's entirely about long-term health. In fact many fault Trump for pushing the vaccines in the first place. Then they fault Biden for the mandates, etc. And of course many of the public health policymakers and their ties to the pharmaceutical industry have been essentially the same the whole time.

So it's not unreasonable or uncommon for different people to look at a very complex issue and come to different conclusions.
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Re: Reasons why I will not be getting injected for the Wuhan

Post by Kbg » Mon Dec 06, 2021 12:15 pm

flyingpylon wrote:
Mon Dec 06, 2021 10:53 am
So it's not unreasonable or uncommon for different people to look at a very complex issue and come to different conclusions.
Indeed, but just because one doesn't like the official narrative doesn't mean it isn't closest to the truth.

I just happen to think that if you are 45-50 or over it is one heck of a personal risk to take and most definitely you are playing small odds against large odds with your life. It's clear a substantial number of people have lost that bet.

One sharp disagreement; at this point in time I don't think the issue is complex at all. You've got a current known vs. a future unknown with a buttload of data collected from around the world.

The only thing that isn't cut and dried at this point is potential future complications.
Last edited by Kbg on Mon Dec 06, 2021 12:35 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Reasons why I will not be getting injected for the Wuhan

Post by Kbg » Mon Dec 06, 2021 12:26 pm

If you are into crowd sourcing as a source of "most likely" right

https://covid.cdc.gov/covid-data-tracke ... rate-total

And I'm letting myself get sucked in again...:-)

Hey and we kept it civil which is good...so kudos to all!
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Re: Reasons why I will not be getting injected for the Wuhan

Post by jalanlong » Mon Dec 06, 2021 2:08 pm

Kbg wrote:
Mon Dec 06, 2021 12:15 pm


I just happen to think that if you are 45-50 or over it is one heck of a personal risk to take and most definitely you are playing small odds against large odds with your life. It's clear a substantial number of people have lost that bet.

For every 1,000 people over the age of 50 who contract Covid, 5 will die. That is a .5% death rate not even taking into account weight or other preexisting conditions or adjusting for any correlation but not causation effect in the statistics. Obviously our definitions of "Large odds" and "heck of a personal risk" are different because if I lost sleep over that then I wouldn't sleep about a lot of things that I do on a daily basis.
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Re: Reasons why I will not be getting injected for the Wuhan

Post by Xan » Mon Dec 06, 2021 2:19 pm

jalanlong wrote:
Mon Dec 06, 2021 2:08 pm
Kbg wrote:
Mon Dec 06, 2021 12:15 pm


I just happen to think that if you are 45-50 or over it is one heck of a personal risk to take and most definitely you are playing small odds against large odds with your life. It's clear a substantial number of people have lost that bet.

For every 1,000 people over the age of 50 who contract Covid, 5 will die. That is a .5% death rate not even taking into account weight or other preexisting conditions or adjusting for any correlation but not causation effect in the statistics. Obviously our definitions of "Large odds" and "heck of a personal risk" are different because if I lost sleep over that then I wouldn't sleep about a lot of things that I do on a daily basis.
If you took a 1 in 200 chance of dying just once each day, you would be more likely dead than alive by the 4-month mark. You say you take such a risk multiple times every day?
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Re: Reasons why I will not be getting injected for the Wuhan

Post by I Shrugged » Mon Dec 06, 2021 3:34 pm

Xan wrote:
Mon Dec 06, 2021 2:19 pm
jalanlong wrote:
Mon Dec 06, 2021 2:08 pm
Kbg wrote:
Mon Dec 06, 2021 12:15 pm


I just happen to think that if you are 45-50 or over it is one heck of a personal risk to take and most definitely you are playing small odds against large odds with your life. It's clear a substantial number of people have lost that bet.

For every 1,000 people over the age of 50 who contract Covid, 5 will die. That is a .5% death rate not even taking into account weight or other preexisting conditions or adjusting for any correlation but not causation effect in the statistics. Obviously our definitions of "Large odds" and "heck of a personal risk" are different because if I lost sleep over that then I wouldn't sleep about a lot of things that I do on a daily basis.
If you took a 1 in 200 chance of dying just once each day, you would be more likely dead than alive by the 4-month mark. You say you take such a risk multiple times every day?
I think that is flawed math, Xan. That pretty much assumes you could get a new instance of Covid every day, and without benefit of prior immunity. The correct math would be something like: Chance of getting first instance of Covid x chance of dying from it = risk of death.

Edit: Oh , I see you are speaking generally. OK but I think that's sort of reductio ad absurdum. I get jalalong's point.
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Re: Reasons why I will not be getting injected for the Wuhan

Post by whatchamacallit » Mon Dec 06, 2021 5:56 pm

https://fightcovidmilwaukee.org/individ ... -estimator

Interesting calculator to calculate your risk. Interesting to see difference in ages.



I guess thread title may be confusing things. I partook and do recommend vaccine if you haven't already been infected.

Biggest issue here is mandates, refusal to acknowledge natural immunity and refusal to allow ivermectin.
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