Reasons why I will not be getting injected for the Wuhan

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D1984
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Re: Reasons why I will not be getting injected for the Wuhan

Post by D1984 » Wed Sep 08, 2021 9:06 am

murphy_p_t wrote:
Wed Sep 08, 2021 8:38 am
You might want to slow down and breathe before you attempt any more fact-checking.

Lifesite news is not an Evangelical website (based on the common religious description). Rather, it has a heavy Roman Catholic orientation.

Secondly, that particular editorial was written by a professor of the University of Wisconsin. So if you want to tell me that he is not a credible source for this topic, I will consider that carefully.
https://trialsitenews.com/author/joelshirschhorn/

Dr. Hirschhorn (as far as I can see PhD, not MD) is indeed a (former) professor.....of metallurgical engineering. He has also done work in environmental consulting and management consulting. He is not a professor of biology, nor medical science, nor infectious diseases, nor immunology, nor epidemiology.

He is also a member of the American Association of Physicians and Surgeons; said organization is known for promoting (or at least has at some point promoted) the now-debunked "vaccines cause autism" myth, denying that HIV causes AIDS, lobbying against indoor smoking bans, and accusing then-candidate Obama of hypnotizing voters using NLP in his speeches. Not exactly a super-reliable source of medical information and not the type of company I'd keep if I wanted people to take me seriously as a source of medical facts.

My apologies for calling it an evangelical website (although to be far I did say there were a bunch of hard-line conservative Catholic types posting on it as well). Anyhow, the last time I checked both fundamentalist evangelicals and hard-line right wing conservative Catholics are equally opposed to abortion (and equally as likely to ignore science when it suits their religious dictates) as well as being opposed to things like stem cell research, sexual freedom between consenting adults, gay marriage, and LGBTQ rights. Not much difference to me....it's like comparing cashews and pecans; they are different, true, but they're both definitely nuts. They can believe what they want to believe but when it starts conflicting with actual science, sorry; at that point, sane normal people can safely ignore them.
Last edited by D1984 on Wed Sep 08, 2021 10:02 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Reasons why I will not be getting injected for the Wuhan

Post by D1984 » Wed Sep 08, 2021 9:09 am

murphy_p_t wrote:
Wed Sep 08, 2021 8:44 am
I see that you posted a link from The New York times.... Which is not a reliable news source.

Rather, it is a propaganda outlet.
The NY Times article was merely listing the studies and the results; the actual studies were published in the BMJ and the NEJM; I can cite those and provide links if you'd like......presuming you don't think those are "propaganda outlets" as well.
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Re: Reasons why I will not be getting injected for the Wuhan

Post by Xan » Wed Sep 08, 2021 9:44 am

murphy_p_t wrote:
Wed Sep 08, 2021 8:00 am
Risking the clot shot would be stupid, for me.

“The Salk Institute study proves the assumption made by the vaccine industry, that the spike protein is inert and harmless, to be false and dangerously inaccurate.”

https://www.lifesitenews.com/opinion/fr ... ood-clots/

Ps. The error in your logic is your adherence to scientism. Rather than objective science.
Murphy, what is your plan to avoid the spike protein? It seems that our choices are:

a) Get a vaccine - exposure to the spike protein, immunity against the other nasties of the bug
b) Get the virus - exposure to the spike protein AND all the other nasties
c) Adopt a personal zero-Covid policy: no contact with anyone else ever

So, you must be doing c?
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Re: Reasons why I will not be getting injected for the Wuhan

Post by murphy_p_t » Wed Sep 08, 2021 10:38 am

D. Think for myself and act accordingly.

Which includes the following:

-live a healthy lifestyle, which includes good diet and rigorous exercise, sunshine and outdoor air
-vitamin regimen including multivitamin etc (see flccc regimen linked above
-acknowledge that we are under a 21st century Bolshevik revolution; covid-19 being the pretext, since the global warming doomporn was losing traction
-start with the base premise that propaganda from the mainstream media, fauci, gates etc. is bullshit.. which more than 50% of Boobus Americanus will immediately accept as gospel truth when it appears on the idiot box (including the fake opposition Fox news).
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Re: Reasons why I will not be getting injected for the Wuhan

Post by Xan » Wed Sep 08, 2021 11:30 am

mmmkay, but if Covid is just a pretext, why are you worried about the spike protein being toxic?

Also d) doesn't opt you out: you WILL eventually get the virus if you have any human contact at all. So, you're doing b) then?
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Re: Reasons why I will not be getting injected for the Wuhan

Post by flyingpylon » Wed Sep 08, 2021 12:10 pm

Xan wrote:
Wed Sep 08, 2021 11:30 am
Also d) doesn't opt you out: you WILL eventually get the virus if you have any human contact at all.
Really curious why you keep insisting on this. What do you mean by “get the virus”? Do you mean that everyone will be exposed to the SARS-COV-2 virus but acknowledge that only some will develop COVID, or do you literally think that everyone will develop COVID at some point if they have any human contact at all?
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Re: Reasons why I will not be getting injected for the Wuhan

Post by Xan » Wed Sep 08, 2021 12:22 pm

flyingpylon wrote:
Wed Sep 08, 2021 12:10 pm
Xan wrote:
Wed Sep 08, 2021 11:30 am
Also d) doesn't opt you out: you WILL eventually get the virus if you have any human contact at all.
Really curious why you keep insisting on this. What do you mean by “get the virus”? Do you mean that everyone will be exposed to the SARS-COV-2 virus but acknowledge that only some will develop COVID, or do you literally think that everyone will develop COVID at some point if they have any human contact at all?
I mean exposure / colonization. Only some will develop the disease Covid. Everyone will see the spike protein.
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Re: Reasons why I will not be getting injected for the Wuhan

Post by murphy_p_t » Wed Sep 08, 2021 12:40 pm

You are right, I have been out and about living my life
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Re: Reasons why I will not be getting injected for the Wuhan

Post by Xan » Wed Sep 08, 2021 12:44 pm

murphy_p_t wrote:
Wed Sep 08, 2021 12:40 pm
You are right, I have been out and about living my life
Fair enough, but then it sounds like on one hand you're terrified of the spike protein, and on the other hand completely at ease with it.
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Re: Reasons why I will not be getting injected for the Wuhan

Post by dualstow » Wed Sep 08, 2021 2:25 pm

I have an old gf who thinks somewhat along the lines of Murphy, minus the political stuff. She is concerned about the vaccine, and — i don’t know exactly how you feel about it, Murphy — confident that she would get over Covid, especially Delta. Therefore, she has not been vaccinated.

So, to put a human face on the posts, I just think about that old gf.
hmm, rereading this, that’s not creepy at all. O0
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Re: Reasons why I will not be getting injected for the Wuhan

Post by Smith1776 » Wed Sep 08, 2021 3:16 pm

I am double vaxxed and believe in vaccinations strongly. However. I have no interest in arguing with people who don’t want to get vaxxed.

I’m just too agreeable I think. My significant other is staunchly against vaccination, and we have never argued about it. Agree to disagree.
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Re: Reasons why I will not be getting injected for the Wuhan

Post by Xan » Wed Sep 08, 2021 3:19 pm

Smith1776 wrote:
Wed Sep 08, 2021 3:16 pm
I am double vaxxed and believe in vaccinations strongly. However. I have no interest in arguing with people who don’t want to get vaxxed.

I’m just too agreeable I think. My significant other is staunchly against vaccination, and we have never argued about it. Agree to disagree.
That's easier before the kids come along.
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Re: Reasons why I will not be getting injected for the Wuhan

Post by Smith1776 » Wed Sep 08, 2021 3:20 pm

Xan wrote:
Wed Sep 08, 2021 3:19 pm
Smith1776 wrote:
Wed Sep 08, 2021 3:16 pm
I am double vaxxed and believe in vaccinations strongly. However. I have no interest in arguing with people who don’t want to get vaxxed.

I’m just too agreeable I think. My significant other is staunchly against vaccination, and we have never argued about it. Agree to disagree.
That's easier before the kids come along.
Funny enough, we were talking about kids the other day.

I think one is good for us. We both agreed on boy. 👌

So pricey to raise kids these days.
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Re: Reasons why I will not be getting injected for the Wuhan

Post by murphy_p_t » Wed Sep 08, 2021 3:26 pm

MangoMan wrote:
Wed Sep 08, 2021 2:33 pm
I have zero problem with Murphy's choice to not get the jab....just that the decision is based on propaganda from websites that are more fake news than CNN. ::)
I am edified that you and others are not looking to trash the Nuremberg code
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Re: Reasons why I will not be getting injected for the Wuhan

Post by I Shrugged » Wed Sep 08, 2021 6:37 pm

D1984 wrote:
Wed Sep 08, 2021 8:12 am


Getting COVID is a much higher risk for getting blood clots than taking the vaccine


That's probably bad math.

Because, the odds of getting COVID are not 100%. I don't know all the numbers but if risk of clots is 3x higher from Covid than from the vax, but the chance of getting Covid is 10%, then the risk of getting a clot is higher with the vax. Again, I don't know the component numbers. But the headline argument annoys the heck out of me because of this.
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Re: Reasons why I will not be getting injected for the Wuhan

Post by Xan » Wed Sep 08, 2021 7:35 pm

I Shrugged wrote:
Wed Sep 08, 2021 6:37 pm
D1984 wrote:
Wed Sep 08, 2021 8:12 am


Getting COVID is a much higher risk for getting blood clots than taking the vaccine


That's probably bad math.

Because, the odds of getting COVID are not 100%. I don't know all the numbers but if risk of clots is 3x higher from Covid than from the vax, but the chance of getting Covid is 10%, then the risk of getting a clot is higher with the vax. Again, I don't know the component numbers. But the headline argument annoys the heck out of me because of this.
https://www.nytimes.com/2021/08/27/heal ... virus.html
for every 10 million people given a first dose of the AstraZeneca vaccine, about 66 more people than normal would develop clots starting in a vein. But among the same number infected with the virus itself, 12,614 more people than normal would develop those clots.
66 vs 12,614 would be the bad math, so by your 10% guess, it's 66 clots for the vaccine and 1,261 clots for the virus.
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Re: Reasons why I will not be getting injected for the Wuhan

Post by vnatale » Wed Sep 08, 2021 7:45 pm

dualstow wrote:
Wed Sep 08, 2021 2:25 pm

I have an old gf who thinks somewhat along the lines of Murphy, minus the political stuff. She is concerned about the vaccine, and — i don’t know exactly how you feel about it, Murphy — confident that she would get over Covid, especially Delta. Therefore, she has not been vaccinated.

So, to put a human face on the posts, I just think about that old gf.
hmm, rereading this, that’s not creepy at all. O0


After our softball practice tonight a new woman on our team told us that her grandmother had a horrendous reaction to the Johnson & Johnson shot. Sounded life threatening. She told us that on the basis of that she is going to remain unvaccinated. That was followed up by another player on our team saying he'd get vaccinated once the information sheet was no longer blank. So I have at least two unvaccinated players on my team.

As the coach I don't ask anyone their status so do not know how many are or are not. I did though inform everyone today that we did have a player at practice last Thursday night who developed symptoms on Friday, got tested on Saturday and came back with a positive on Sunday. Another player showed up tonight wearing a mask (but not tp practice--just to pay his money) because his daughter has it.
Above provided by: Vinny, who always says: "I only regret that I have but one lap to give to my cats." AND "I'm a more-is-more person."
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Re: Reasons why I will not be getting injected for the Wuhan

Post by vnatale » Wed Sep 08, 2021 7:48 pm

Smith1776 wrote:
Wed Sep 08, 2021 3:20 pm

Xan wrote:
Wed Sep 08, 2021 3:19 pm

Smith1776 wrote:
Wed Sep 08, 2021 3:16 pm

I am double vaxxed and believe in vaccinations strongly. However. I have no interest in arguing with people who don’t want to get vaxxed.

I’m just too agreeable I think. My significant other is staunchly against vaccination, and we have never argued about it. Agree to disagree.


That's easier before the kids come along.


Funny enough, we were talking about kids the other day.

I think one is good for us. We both agreed on boy. 👌

So pricey to raise kids these days.


Do you believe it is a lot more than when you were being raised?

I used to laugh at those stories that told how much it cost to raise a child. From thinking about how I was raised it seemed that there were minimal additional incremental costs due to me living in the house.
Above provided by: Vinny, who always says: "I only regret that I have but one lap to give to my cats." AND "I'm a more-is-more person."
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Re: Reasons why I will not be getting injected for the Wuhan

Post by SomeDude » Wed Sep 08, 2021 7:54 pm

murphy_p_t wrote:
Wed Sep 08, 2021 10:38 am
D. Think for myself and act accordingly.

Which includes the following:

-live a healthy lifestyle, which includes good diet and rigorous exercise, sunshine and outdoor air
-vitamin regimen including multivitamin etc (see flccc regimen linked above
-acknowledge that we are under a 21st century Bolshevik revolution; covid-19 being the pretext, since the global warming doomporn was losing traction
-start with the base premise that propaganda from the mainstream media, fauci, gates etc. is bullshit.. which more than 50% of Boobus Americanus will immediately accept as gospel truth when it appears on the idiot box (including the fake opposition Fox news).
I have the same plan but do you really think it's 50%? I think its way lower but many people are succumbing to fear or trust that the gubmit wouldn't allow a bad injection. I can't believe 50% or even 20% believe the lying media about anything.

I could be wrong. I hope I'm not.
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Re: Reasons why I will not be getting injected for the Wuhan

Post by SomeDude » Wed Sep 08, 2021 7:58 pm

MangoMan wrote:
Wed Sep 08, 2021 2:33 pm
I have zero problem with Murphy's choice to not get the jab....just that the decision is based on propaganda from websites that are more fake news than CNN. ::)
Damn. If they are more fake news than CNN then CNN will probably get replaced soon.

I mean this is like being so far north, you're north of the North Star.
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Re: Reasons why I will not be getting injected for the Wuhan

Post by SomeDude » Wed Sep 08, 2021 8:05 pm

I Shrugged wrote:
Wed Sep 08, 2021 6:37 pm
D1984 wrote:
Wed Sep 08, 2021 8:12 am


Getting COVID is a much higher risk for getting blood clots than taking the vaccine


That's probably bad math.

Because, the odds of getting COVID are not 100%. I don't know all the numbers but if risk of clots is 3x higher from Covid than from the vax, but the chance of getting Covid is 10%, then the risk of getting a clot is higher with the vax. Again, I don't know the component numbers. But the headline argument annoys the heck out of me because of this.
I think I've made this point about 6 times now. It's a basic concept of risk management. If you don't get vaxxed you have a certain probability of getting covid and the associated effects. The probability is low.

If you get vaxxed....you've accepted 100% that you're exposed to the vax and the associated effects.

Furthermore, if you get vaxxed, you still have a possibility of getting covid, maybe just as good as the unvaxxed despite what CNN says.

And if you believe that the virus keeps mutating........how many more vaxxes will you expose yourself to? For some the number will be infinity.
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Re: Reasons why I will not be getting injected for the Wuhan

Post by vnatale » Wed Sep 08, 2021 8:38 pm

SomeDude wrote:
Wed Sep 08, 2021 8:05 pm

I Shrugged wrote:
Wed Sep 08, 2021 6:37 pm

D1984 wrote:
Wed Sep 08, 2021 8:12 am



Getting COVID is a much higher risk for getting blood clots than taking the vaccine





That's probably bad math.

Because, the odds of getting COVID are not 100%. I don't know all the numbers but if risk of clots is 3x higher from Covid than from the vax, but the chance of getting Covid is 10%, then the risk of getting a clot is higher with the vax. Again, I don't know the component numbers. But the headline argument annoys the heck out of me because of this.

I think I've made this point about 6 times now. It's a basic concept of risk management. If you don't get vaxxed you have a certain probability of getting covid and the associated effects. The probability is low.

If you get vaxxed....you've accepted 100% that you're exposed to the vax and the associated effects.

Furthermore, if you get vaxxed, you still have a possibility of getting covid, maybe just as good as the unvaxxed despite what CNN says.

And if you believe that the virus keeps mutating........how many more vaxxes will you expose yourself to? For some the number will be infinity.


Follow what you are saying...you ware putting out a basic formulae of:

Get vaccination...Bad results = % chance of getting Covid X Severity of effects + % chance of side effects X Severity of side effects

The other side is Not get Vaccination...Bad results = % chance of getting Covid X Severity of effects NOTE: no risk here of the bad effects from a vaccination

You may have already done so but can you put some numbers to the above formulae? It's going to be different for each individual (primarily based upon age and overall health)?

So how about doing it for you?

I got the vaccination...Let's say my bad results are 0.02 X 2 + .000001 X 5...basically equals .04 total.

Don't get the vaccination...my numbers would be .02 X 6...basically equals .12 total.

What numbers can you provide that argue for not being vaccinated?

I'll accept your premise that the chances of getting it are the same being vaccinated or unvaccinated. Then it comes down to the expected outcome of being vaccinated and getting it plus the expected outcome from side effects from the vaccination.

Compared to the same possibilities while being vaccinated but a much more severe outcome (but again the outcome may not be as severe if you are young AND in good health).

Above provided by: Vinny, who always says: "I only regret that I have but one lap to give to my cats." AND "I'm a more-is-more person."
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Re: Reasons why I will not be getting injected for the Wuhan

Post by Cortopassi » Thu Sep 09, 2021 1:00 pm

murph and others of similar thoughts:

Year is 2031. You are 10 years older. Covid is an endemic disease, like flu. Variants every year. Covide shot is like a flu shot, most people just get it, maybe feel bad for 24 hours, and move on. All covid vaccines have long ago moved from experimental stage to general use.

So in 2031: Are you getting a Covid shot? Are you getting a flu shot? Are you getting your kids their standard vaccinations? Are you getting the shingles shots if applicable to your age?

Can you answer these without going off on a tangent?
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Re: Reasons why I will not be getting injected for the Wuhan

Post by vnatale » Thu Sep 09, 2021 1:41 pm

Cortopassi wrote:
Thu Sep 09, 2021 1:00 pm

murph and others of similar thoughts:

Year is 2031. You are 10 years older. Covid is an endemic disease, like flu. Variants every year. Covide shot is like a flu shot, most people just get it, maybe feel bad for 24 hours, and move on. All covid vaccines have long ago moved from experimental stage to general use.

So in 2031: Are you getting a Covid shot? Are you getting a flu shot? Are you getting your kids their standard vaccinations? Are you getting the shingles shots if applicable to your age?

Can you answer these without going off on a tangent?


Regarding the shingles shot. I have not got one because since I take no drugs I chose the cheapest monthly Medicare drug plan. Which means I'd essentially be paying for that shingles shot.

While organizing old pictures yesterday I found one of those children milestone books. In it my mother noted the dates I'd had the mump and chicken pox (which confirmed I'd had two of the childhood big three back then while avoiding the measles). Is it having had the chicken pox the one that makes you more susceptible to contracting shingles?
Above provided by: Vinny, who always says: "I only regret that I have but one lap to give to my cats." AND "I'm a more-is-more person."
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Re: Reasons why I will not be getting injected for the Wuhan

Post by Xan » Thu Sep 09, 2021 1:47 pm

vnatale wrote:
Thu Sep 09, 2021 1:41 pm
Cortopassi wrote:
Thu Sep 09, 2021 1:00 pm
murph and others of similar thoughts:

Year is 2031. You are 10 years older. Covid is an endemic disease, like flu. Variants every year. Covide shot is like a flu shot, most people just get it, maybe feel bad for 24 hours, and move on. All covid vaccines have long ago moved from experimental stage to general use.

So in 2031: Are you getting a Covid shot? Are you getting a flu shot? Are you getting your kids their standard vaccinations? Are you getting the shingles shots if applicable to your age?

Can you answer these without going off on a tangent?
Regarding the shingles shot. I have not got one because since I take no drugs I chose the cheapest monthly Medicare drug plan. Which means I'd essentially be paying for that shingles shot.

While organizing old pictures yesterday I found one of those children milestone books. In it my mother noted the dates I'd had the mump and chicken pox (which confirmed I'd had two of the childhood big three back then while avoiding the measles). Is it having had the chicken pox the one that makes you more susceptible to contracting shingles?
The only way to get shingles is to have had the chicken pox. Shingles is the latent chicken pox virus still in your body becoming active again. In fact, people can get the chicken pox from contact with shingles lesions.
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