Reasons why I will not be getting injected for the Wuhan

[dualstow]

…
Almost everyone i hear about third person that are testing positive are vaxxed.

I wonder if the vax is lowering immune systems or responsible for the so-called "delta" variant.

It may be that people who were pro-vax but not yet vaxxed stayed home, and after getting vaxxed but before Delta was a household word, went out to restaurants and gatherings.

[SomeDude]

…
Almost everyone i hear about third person that are testing positive are vaxxed.

I wonder if the vax is lowering immune systems or responsible for the so-called "delta" variant.

It may be that people who were pro-vax but not yet vaxxed stayed home, and after getting vaxxed but before Delta was a household word, went out to restaurants and gatherings.

I am 100% sure you are right for a large number of pro vaxxers. The non vaxxers have probably already been out as much as allowed and either built up immunity or had it naturally (young and healthy).

I would bet the vaxxed portion of the population is significantly older and more susceptible in general. This is a point the author of that article missed with the grade school arithmetic.

[Mark Leavy]

Just following along with Somedude's comment...

Here's something that I never see discussed in any of the articles:

I'm not an anti-vaxer, in that I think it probably is a good thing for a lot of people - and in addition to whatever medical benefit it provides, there are plenty of good reasons for individuals to choose to get vaccinated.

Right or wrong, however, I would (and regularly do) wager my life that my immune system is as good or better than the average 12 year old - and that it provides better protection than some shot cobbled up in a lab on short notice. I am ungodly healthy and just never get sick of anything. I never hesitate to drink water from mountain streams, I walk barefoot through every sort of environment you can imagine. I sit cheek to cheek with strangers at the bar. I eat street food in third world countries. I fly in airplanes. I don't believe in magic. I can tell when I get exposed to something. I'm extra tired for a day or two, but that is it.

I'm not anti vax or modern medicine - and have had plenty of government and military mandated shots - but I never get the annual flu shot, and never visit a doc except to get patched up. (Unlike MangoMan who sews himself up...)

So ... I acknowledge that it is a concern for a lot of people, but it just isn't part of my world.

[vnatale]

Just came across this:

Capture.JPG (68.13 KiB) Viewed 3651 times

[Mark Leavy]

Just came across this:

Well, that's something. Very glad you found it.

What does it mean? How can we use it?

I see that 45% of the deaths were female. Why must the women always suffer the brunt of these catastrophes?

[vnatale]

Just came across this:

Well, that's something. Very glad you found it.

What does it mean? How can we use it?

I see that 45% of the deaths were female. Why must the women always suffer the brunt of these catastrophes?

"...hospitalization and death from Covid-19 continues to be a vanishingly small danger to the vaccinated." Agree? Disagree?

[jswinner]

Just came across this:

Well, that's something. Very glad you found it.

What does it mean? How can we use it?

I see that 45% of the deaths were female. Why must the women always suffer the brunt of these catastrophes?

So wait, you accept this CDC data as gospel yet all of the prior test/hospitalizations/deaths are suspect/bogus/conspiracy? I am so confused. And Vinny, be a good sport and post up all of the non-vax numbers for the same period would you please?

[Mark Leavy]

Just came across this:

Well, that's something. Very glad you found it.

What does it mean? How can we use it?

I see that 45% of the deaths were female. Why must the women always suffer the brunt of these catastrophes?

So wait, you accept this CDC data as gospel yet all of the prior test/hospitalizations/deaths are suspect/bogus/conspiracy? I am so confused. And Vinny, be a good sport and post up all of the non-vax numbers for the same period would you please?

I agree that you are confused
You clearly have me confused with someone else.

[Mark Leavy]

Just came across this:

Well, that's something. Very glad you found it.

What does it mean? How can we use it?

I see that 45% of the deaths were female. Why must the women always suffer the brunt of these catastrophes?

"...hospitalization and death from Covid-19 continues to be a vanishingly small danger to the vaccinated." Agree? Disagree?

No opinion at all. I was just wondering what the hell you meant when you posted a random screenshot.

[Mark Leavy]

I see that 45% of the deaths were female. Why must the women always suffer the brunt of these catastrophes?

So wait, you accept this CDC data as gospel yet all of the prior test/hospitalizations/deaths are suspect/bogus/conspiracy? I am so confused. And Vinny, be a good sport and post up all of the non-vax numbers for the same period would you please?

In addition to being confused, you might also be humor impaired. Do you have any smart friends that can explain it to you?

[Kbg]

Yesterday was completely awful. I don’t remember it very well. In the evening I started wondering if my extreme fatigue was due to electrolyte levels and remembered we have some powdered Gatorade in the walk-in. I downed a couple of glasses and felt instantly better. Today is better, though definitely sick still.

[glennds]

Just following along with Somedude's comment...

Here's something that I never see discussed in any of the articles:

I'm not an anti-vaxer, in that I think it probably is a good thing for a lot of people - and in addition to whatever medical benefit it provides, there are plenty of good reasons for individuals to choose to get vaccinated.

Right or wrong, however, I would (and regularly do) wager my life that my immune system is as good or better than the average 12 year old - and that it provides better protection than some shot cobbled up in a lab on short notice. I am ungodly healthy and just never get sick of anything. I never hesitate to drink water from mountain streams, I walk barefoot through every sort of environment you can imagine. I sit cheek to cheek with strangers at the bar. I eat street food in third world countries. I fly in airplanes. I don't believe in magic. I can tell when I get exposed to something. I'm extra tired for a day or two, but that is it.

I'm not anti vax or modern medicine - and have had plenty of government and military mandated shots - but I never get the annual flu shot, and never visit a doc except to get patched up. (Unlike MangoMan who sews himself up...)

So ... I acknowledge that it is a concern for a lot of people, but it just isn't part of my world.

Mark:

1. Would you consider yourself a unique outlier? Or have your travels given an indication that there is a fairly large population of people who share your level of health and immunity?

2. Do you attribute your health level to a winning ticket in the genetic lottery, or is it a by product of an intentional lifestyle practice?

[Mark Leavy]

Mark:

1. Would you consider yourself a unique outlier? Or have your travels given an indication that there is a fairly large population of people who share your level of health and immunity?

2. Do you attribute your health level to a winning ticket in the genetic lottery, or is it a by product of an intentional lifestyle practice?

Definitely not the genetic lottery. I think it is more lifestyle choice. Stay lean, strong, active, continuously exposed to the outdoor world and challenging environments.

It's a fairly common level of health for the older generation around the mediterranean - that grew up walking up and down the sides of mountains all day. Not so much for the city dwellers anymore.

Of course, nothing is a guarantee and anything can get anyone at any time. Never hurts to put the odds in your favor, though.

Edit: And I think there is something to being very low carb. But probably a lessor factor than the other stuff.

[vnatale]

Mark:

1. Would you consider yourself a unique outlier? Or have your travels given an indication that there is a fairly large population of people who share your level of health and immunity?

2. Do you attribute your health level to a winning ticket in the genetic lottery, or is it a by product of an intentional lifestyle practice?

Definitely not the genetic lottery. I think it is more lifestyle choice. Stay lean, strong, active, continuously exposed to the outdoor world and challenging environments.

It's a fairly common level of health for the older generation around the mediterranean - that grew up walking up and down the sides of mountains all day. Not so much for the city dwellers anymore.

Of course, nothing is a guarantee and anything can get anyone at any time. Never hurts to put the odds in your favor, though.

For certain!

Of this list of thirteen...https://www.healthline.com/nutrition/13 ... TLE_HDR_14

Do you strongly embrace any of them or strongly reject any of them?

[Mark Leavy]

For certain!

Of this list of thirteen...https://www.healthline.com/nutrition/13 ... TLE_HDR_14

Do you strongly embrace any of them or strongly reject any of them?

Looks like BS pablum to me.

[jalanlong]

Mark:

1. Would you consider yourself a unique outlier? Or have your travels given an indication that there is a fairly large population of people who share your level of health and immunity?

2. Do you attribute your health level to a winning ticket in the genetic lottery, or is it a by product of an intentional lifestyle practice?

Definitely not the genetic lottery. I think it is more lifestyle choice. Stay lean, strong, active, continuously exposed to the outdoor world and challenging environments.

It's a fairly common level of health for the older generation around the mediterranean - that grew up walking up and down the sides of mountains all day. Not so much for the city dwellers anymore.

Of course, nothing is a guarantee and anything can get anyone at any time. Never hurts to put the odds in your favor, though.

I am in the same boat, although mine is probably more genetics or random luck than anything I actually do. But at 52 years old and I never, ever get sick. I may be partly responsible because I in no way ever try to shield myself from germs. I don't wash my hands or disinfect things around me as often as other people do. Getting sick is not something I ever think about nor does it ever stop me from doing something I want to do. So I have decent confidence that if I get exposed to Covid (assuming I have not already) that I will come thru it fine.

My 11 year old is the same way. I let him play in dirt when he was a kid and I never worried about his cleanliness. And he never gets sick. My cousin, however, was constantly washing her daughter's hands and wouldn't let her touch things after they had fallen on the floor. And that child has chronic sinus infections and breathing issues. I have no idea if that means anything or if it is truly random luck.

[vnatale]

For certain!

Of this list of thirteen...https://www.healthline.com/nutrition/13 ... TLE_HDR_14

Do you strongly embrace any of them or strongly reject any of them?

Looks like BS pablum to me.

Even from you...that was a surprise answer!

You do not go along with?

1. Avoid overeating
5. Stay physically active
6. Don’t smoke

[glennds]

Mark and jalalong, thanks for your feedback.
I don't know enough about it, but Mark is right, you don't read much about the subject of immunity whether genetic or influenced by lifestyle. I'm sure studies have been done, but the subject doesn't seem to make it into the mainstream.

I remember a book called Blue Zones that studied advanced age and vitality in various zones around the globe, and one of them was the Mediterranean.
Maybe at some point we will have data on whether the COVID infection patterns will bear out a connection between lower incidence of infection in high immunity places where Mark is the norm more than the exception.

So far the soundbites on rural vs. urban infection rates are chalking up the differences being due to population density. But you have to wonder whether sedentary modern city life vs outdoor, physical activity, sun exposure, etc. might be a bigger factor than population density. Maybe a bigger factor than youth vs age too.

I just did a quick google search, and it does not appear there is such a thing as an objective measure of immunity in the general sense. Seems like the whole subject is in its infancy.

[Mark Leavy]

Even from you...that was a surprise answer!

You do not go along with?

1. Avoid overeating
5. Stay physically active
6. Don’t smoke

It was a shotgun listicle. Some things on the mark. Some not.
Not a serious article.

[vnatale]

I am in the same boat, although mine is probably more genetics or random luck than anything I actually do. But at 52 years old and I never, ever get sick. I may be partly responsible because I in no way ever try to shield myself from germs. I don't wash my hands or disinfect things around me as often as other people do. Getting sick is not something I ever think about nor does it ever stop me from doing something I want to do. So I have decent confidence that if I get exposed to Covid (assuming I have not already) that I will come thru it fine.

My 11 year old is the same way. I let him play in dirt when he was a kid and I never worried about his cleanliness. And he never gets sick. My cousin, however, was constantly washing her daughter's hands and wouldn't let her touch things after they had fallen on the floor. And that child has chronic sinus infections and breathing issues. I have no idea if that means anything or if it is truly random luck.

I'm somewhat in the same boat also. I reached 70 this year.

Through family circumstances I lived in a group home from 1/2 year to 3 1/2 years old in a group home with other boys which I'm sure exposed me to a wide range of others' germs.

I'm not fastidious in any way from protecting myself from germs through any kind of hand washing or disinfecting anything.

I went from 8th grade to 12th grade plus 5 1/2 years of college with never missing a class due to sickness. Never had to take any work sick time due to actually being sick. And, though I don't always feel great and do catch some things...it is almost always not severe enough to stop me from doing what I want to do.

But I got my vaccinations shots as soon as I was able to and will get the third one as soon as I can. Prior to these two shots I had never had a flu shot. Just never rose to be a high enough priority for me to get one.

[Mark Leavy]

Mark and jalalong, thanks for your feedback.
I don't know enough about it, but Mark is right, you don't read much about the subject of immunity whether genetic or influenced by lifestyle. I'm sure studies have been done, but the subject doesn't seem to make it into the mainstream.

I remember a book called Blue Zones that studied advanced age and vitality in various zones around the globe, and one of them was the Mediterranean.
Maybe at some point we will have data on whether the COVID infection patterns will bear out a connection between lower incidence of infection in high immunity places where Mark is the norm more than the exception.

So far the soundbites on rural vs. urban infection rates are chalking up the differences being due to population density. But you have to wonder whether sedentary modern city life vs outdoor, physical activity, sun exposure, etc. might be a bigger factor than population density. Maybe a bigger factor than youth vs age too.

I just did a quick google search, and it does not appear there is such a thing as an objective measure of immunity in the general sense. Seems like the whole subject is in its infancy.

Some good comments, glennds. I agree. I wish there were more quantitative research.

I have read the Blue Zone, and also have been to most of the countries. The author is a vegetarian and so is somewhat biased in his commentary towards finding a diet based explanation. But, he did collect good data and I'm always happy to read that. I came to different conclusions

I spent 2 months in Sardegna in 2019. It is one of the blue zones. When you read the book, it is easy to forget that when you are talking about supercentenarians these are folks that spent most of their lives without cars and other powered transport. It is a world that has no modern corollary.

This is an example of every piece of land in Sardegna:

road.jpeg (235.55 KiB) Viewed 3421 times

Nothing is flat. Nothing is nearby.

I love to hike and would frequently find myself miles from any village in the middle of nowhere. Only to come across some 5' 2" 90 year cobber hobbling along at 1 mph. Slow and steady. All day long. Not for fun. Just going from here to there.

cobber.jpeg (217.46 KiB) Viewed 3421 times

There's nothing like walking 20 miles with thousands of feet of elevation gain every day.

As an aside, I am firmly convinced that cancer is a failure of the immune system. So... there may be some correlation between longevity and immunity.

[dualstow]

…
My 11 year old is the same way. I let him play in dirt when he was a kid and I never worried about his cleanliness. And he never gets sick. My cousin, however, was constantly washing her daughter's hands and wouldn't let her touch things after they had fallen on the floor. And that child has chronic sinus infections and breathing issues. I have no idea if that means anything or if it is truly random luck.

I think cleanliness is important, but the thing about letting one’s kids play in the dirt is well documented.
For example, the fastidious Swiss are more prone to allergies.
Kids who grow up on a farm tend to have less allergies.
Now for the love of God, go wash your hands.

On the other hand, this author says it’s not true.
https://news.ophardt.com/en/busting-the ... hesis-myth

[Mark Leavy]

This is where I lived most of my time in Sardegna. One of the larger cities to the north. Spitting distance to Corsé - which is an even better place to walk around ...

castelsardo.jpeg (100.94 KiB) Viewed 3401 times

A car wasn't much use.

[glennds]

I have read the Blue Zone, and also have been to most of the countries. The author is a vegetarian and so is somewhat biased in his commentary towards finding a diet based explanation. But, he did collect good data and I'm always happy to read that. I came to different conclusions

Those photos of Sardegna make your point. It looks beautiful.
The part about Blue Zones that I have come to believe was not so much the author's dietary conclusions, but his findings about the importance of having a purpose for being, especially in advanced age.
But the diet in Sardegna must have been as purist a farm-to-table type of eating as can be had.
I have my own beliefs about the adulterants in factory produced food, especially in the US food industrial complex. I wonder if the issue is not "gaining" immunity, but rather just not screwing up what we have in the ways that we do.
Thank you for sharing the photos and stories.

[Mark Leavy]

But the diet in Sardegna must have been as purist a farm-to-table type of eating as can be had.
I have my own beliefs about the adulterants in factory produced food, especially in the US food industrial complex. I wonder if the issue is not "gaining" immunity, but rather just not screwing up what we have in the ways that we do.
Thank you for sharing the photos and stories.

Your beliefs are solid.

The food there is mostly sheep's cheese, horse meat and wine.