Reasons why I will not be getting injected for the Wuhan

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Re: Reasons why I will not be getting injected for the Wuhan

Post by Tortoise » Tue Mar 16, 2021 12:07 pm

mathjak107 wrote:
Tue Mar 16, 2021 3:40 am
Their immunity is unknown when you get it from covid
I wouldn't exactly call it "unknown". What we do know is that Covid reinfections appear to be extremely rare so far, based on millions of people worldwide who have been infected with Covid and recovered from it. This observation has been made over a period of months, not years, but that's also true for Covid vaccine observations.

mathjak107 wrote:
Tue Mar 16, 2021 3:40 am
If air bags work , why do we use seat belts , and if seat belts work why do we need air bags , and if they both work why do we need brakes ?
That would be a decent analogy if not for the fact that the technology behind air bags, seatbelts, and brakes is very well understood, and the risks associated with those safety features have been quantified very well based on decades of gathered statistics.

By contrast, the Covid vaccines -- at least the mRNA-based ones -- were developed very quickly and are based on very new biotechnology whose long-term effects on the order of years is not yet known. So they entail a level of uncertainty, and thus risk, that air bags, seatbelts, and brakes do not.

If I were in a high-risk category like the elderly, immunocompromised, or comorbid, and I hadn't gotten sick with Covid yet, I'd definitely get the Covid vaccine as soon as possible. No doubt about it. The unknown chance of negative long-term effects from the vaccine would be outweighed by the large known chance of Covid hospitalization or death if I didn't get the vaccine.

But I'm not in a high-risk category, and I have gotten sick with Covid already and recovered. So for me, the chances of being hospitalized or killed by Covid going forward are miniscule. Not zero, I know, but miniscule.

Given my particularly low risk profile, what is my motivation for taking on the risk of negative long-term effects from the Covid vaccine?
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Re: Reasons why I will not be getting injected for the Wuhan

Post by vnatale » Tue Mar 16, 2021 12:17 pm

Tortoise wrote:
Tue Mar 16, 2021 12:07 pm

mathjak107 wrote:
Tue Mar 16, 2021 3:40 am

Their immunity is unknown when you get it from covid


I wouldn't exactly call it "unknown". What we do know is that Covid reinfections appear to be extremely rare so far, based on millions of people worldwide who have been infected with Covid and recovered from it. This observation has been made over a period of months, not years, but that's also true for Covid vaccine observations.


mathjak107 wrote:
Tue Mar 16, 2021 3:40 am

If air bags work , why do we use seat belts , and if seat belts work why do we need air bags , and if they both work why do we need brakes ?


That would be a decent analogy if not for the fact that the technology behind air bags, seatbelts, and brakes is very well understood, and the risks associated with those safety features have been quantified very well based on decades of gathered statistics.

By contrast, the Covid vaccines -- at least the mRNA-based ones -- were developed very quickly and are based on very new biotechnology whose long-term effects on the order of years is not yet known. So they entail a level of uncertainty, and thus risk, that air bags, seatbelts, and brakes do not.

If I were in a high-risk category like the elderly, immunocompromised, or comorbid, and I hadn't gotten sick with Covid yet, I'd definitely get the Covid vaccine as soon as possible. No doubt about it. The unknown chance of negative long-term effects from the vaccine would be outweighed by the large known chance of Covid hospitalization or death if I didn't get the vaccine.

But I'm not in a high-risk category, and I have gotten sick with Covid already and recovered. So for me, the chances of being hospitalized or killed by Covid going forward are miniscule. Not zero, I know, but miniscule.

Given my particularly low risk profile, what is my motivation for taking on the risk of negative long-term effects from the Covid vaccine?


If so...how does it explain first the airbags and then the seatbelts?

Vinny

First came a worldwide recall for air bags. Now, millions of Takata seat belts may also be faulty.
Takata provided seat belt webbing for 30 percent of the vehicles produced worldwide.

https://www.nbcnews.com/business/autos/ ... t-n1243569
Above provided by: Vinny, who always says: "I only regret that I have but one lap to give to my cats." AND "I'm a more-is-more person."
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Re: Reasons why I will not be getting injected for the Wuhan

Post by Mark Leavy » Tue Mar 16, 2021 12:52 pm

Moderna is beginning testing in the pediatric population.
In Part 1, each participant ages two years to less than 12 years may receive one of two dose levels (50 μg or 100 μg). Also in Part 1, each participant ages six months to less than 2 years may receive one of three dose levels (25 μg, 50 μg and 100 μg).
Who signs their kids up for these kind of initial tests? No matter where you stand, do you really want to put your kid first in line?
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Re: Reasons why I will not be getting injected for the Wuhan

Post by Kbg » Tue Mar 16, 2021 1:04 pm

Mark Leavy wrote:
Tue Mar 16, 2021 12:52 pm
Moderna is beginning testing in the pediatric population.
In Part 1, each participant ages two years to less than 12 years may receive one of two dose levels (50 μg or 100 μg). Also in Part 1, each participant ages six months to less than 2 years may receive one of three dose levels (25 μg, 50 μg and 100 μg).
Who signs their kids up for these kind of initial tests? No matter where you stand, do you really want to put your kid first in line?
Uh, no. That's pretty weird and particularly for something that is by and large a nothing burger for that age group.

IDK, maybe the parents signing up have children with issues where COVID could be a serious health risk? That's the only thing I can think of.
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Re: Reasons why I will not be getting injected for the Wuhan

Post by Kbg » Tue Mar 16, 2021 1:12 pm

tomfoolery wrote:
Tue Mar 16, 2021 10:52 am
Kbg wrote:
Tue Mar 16, 2021 8:50 am
Vaccinated yesterday afternoon. Sore arm near injection point that evening.

Less sore this morning with no other effects other than I hate getting up for work after day light savings time kicks in.
Great work, my friend! Please add your first syringe emoji to your signature line, and the second when you get the second shot!
Hey appreciate the shout out from someone as enlightened! Where do I get me one of those emojis? I hope I can find a gold one for the second shot.

What do you think first shot silver, then second shot gold emoji?

What would be super cool would be to find a gold one with shooting yellow stars around the syringe tip signifying what an accomplishment it was. I mean it's not every day one can help in saving the world from anti-vaxxers. This is epic stuff.
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Re: Reasons why I will not be getting injected for the Wuhan

Post by SomeDude » Tue Mar 16, 2021 1:21 pm

Found out from my sister that my nephew's school was cancelled yesterday. In fact, all public schools were unexpectedly cancelled in the county in mid Michigan according to her.

Evidently all the teachers were required to get the jab on Friday and so many got sick school was cancelled.

Or the teachers are lying.

Don't know if they went back today.
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Re: Reasons why I will not be getting injected for the Wuhan

Post by Don » Tue Mar 16, 2021 1:43 pm

Teachers don't want to teach anymore. They're spoiled leftists who just want their paychecks sent to them at their last vacation spot.
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Re: Reasons why I will not be getting injected for the Wuhan

Post by Cortopassi » Tue Mar 16, 2021 2:15 pm

Don wrote:
Tue Mar 16, 2021 1:43 pm
Teachers don't want to teach anymore. They're spoiled leftists who just want their paychecks sent to them at their last vacation spot.
All the teachers in our HS district have/are being vaccinated.

No such issue here with calling in sick.
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Re: Reasons why I will not be getting injected for the Wuhan

Post by murphy_p_t » Tue Mar 16, 2021 3:08 pm

I have seen at least one report in media of a school district shutting down as a direct consequence of the experiment.

It wouldn't surprise me if they are using variations of the injections, with different results.
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Re: Reasons why I will not be getting injected for the Wuhan

Post by Xan » Tue Mar 16, 2021 3:18 pm

murphy_p_t wrote:
Tue Mar 16, 2021 3:08 pm
I have seen at least one report in media of a school district shutting down as a direct consequence of the experiment.

It wouldn't surprise me if they are using variations of the injections, with different results.
Are you conflating feeling ill for a day or two (a perfectly normal reaction to the second shot, apparently) with dastardly effects like death? If somebody flipped a switch allowing teachers to get the shot, and they all did, and a large percentage of them felt ill the next couple of days, then it could easily be you'd have to close school. That doesn't mean anything's wrong with the vaccine.
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Re: Reasons why I will not be getting injected for the Wuhan

Post by Smith1776 » Tue Mar 16, 2021 3:40 pm

Haven't posted in this thread yet, but I'll chime in with my 2 cents.

As far as I'm concerned, if you don't get vaccinated when it's available to you you're just being daft.

Like, why are we even debating this? It seems like the obvious choice to me, like looking both ways before crossing the street.
I still find the James Rickards portfolio fascinating.
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Re: Reasons why I will not be getting injected for the Wuhan

Post by Cortopassi » Tue Mar 16, 2021 3:53 pm

Smith1776 wrote:
Tue Mar 16, 2021 3:40 pm
As far as I'm concerned, if you don't get vaccinated when it's available to you you're just being daft.

Like, why are we even debating this? It seems like the obvious choice to me, like looking both ways before crossing the street.
I know you are being sincere Smith (are you????)

No, seriously, TF, has fucked with my mind. Anyone writing anything sincere now I read with skepticism. Damn you TF.
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Re: Reasons why I will not be getting injected for the Wuhan

Post by vnatale » Tue Mar 16, 2021 4:02 pm

Smith1776 wrote:
Tue Mar 16, 2021 3:40 pm

Haven't posted in this thread yet, but I'll chime in with my 2 cents.

As far as I'm concerned, if you don't get vaccinated when it's available to you you're just being daft.

Like, why are we even debating this? It seems like the obvious choice to me, like looking both ways before crossing the street.


As usual...one of our younger (youngest?) members here displays his usual wisdom from his fount of wisdom!
Last edited by vnatale on Tue Mar 16, 2021 6:07 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Above provided by: Vinny, who always says: "I only regret that I have but one lap to give to my cats." AND "I'm a more-is-more person."
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Re: Reasons why I will not be getting injected for the Wuhan

Post by Mark Leavy » Tue Mar 16, 2021 4:13 pm

Smith1776 wrote:
Tue Mar 16, 2021 3:40 pm
Haven't posted in this thread yet, but I'll chime in with my 2 cents.

As far as I'm concerned, if you don't get vaccinated when it's available to you you're just being daft.

Like, why are we even debating this? It seems like the obvious choice to me, like looking both ways before crossing the street.
Apart from all the Sturm und Drang, there are some pretty solid arguments on both sides of the vaccine that reasoning adults can use to make their own decision.

Tortoise, on this forum, gave one. He's already had Covid and from everything we know so far, that is an excellent way to prevent future infection. So taking on additional risk for no reward didn't make sense in his view.

WiseOne (no slouch in the medical community) has taken the vaccine, but did some prep work to ameliorate any side effects.

Pugchief got it as it made good business sense and perhaps overall good sense.

I have an overly optimistic view of my own invincibility, so I won't take it unless there is an obvious upside to me - perhaps international travel.

In any case, there is a lot of room for people to make informed choices. Especially in a community as diligent as this one.

There's an outstanding discussion on some of the positives and minuses of the m-RNA version by the great Peter Dobromylskyj. He can be pretty dense reading at times and his humor is subtle and hard to pick up on. But it is great. Also, his commenters are some of the brighter folks in the medical community so the comments to his posts are well worth the reading.

Edit: Typos and bad link
Last edited by Mark Leavy on Tue Mar 16, 2021 4:42 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Reasons why I will not be getting injected for the Wuhan

Post by Cortopassi » Tue Mar 16, 2021 4:14 pm

From SD on another thread

"I spent 84 days in a NICU with my daughter from aug - nov last year."
---------------------------
I am glad your daughter is well.

And I just wanted to mention she is alive today because of science.

That same science that has been pooh poohed by so many for the past year.

If I were an infectious disease scientist, I would be so damn pissed. So many people mocking my profession. So many people calling my work a hoax, fake, only to make money, an uncontrolled experiment, etc.

Yet I am sure some of that same science that created these vaccines in record time kept your daughter from getting an infection or a disease, and I bet you profusely thanked every single doctor and nurse that was involved in saving your daughter.

Instead of doing things like mocking 15 seconds of a dance by nurses in a hallway out of context.

You (and I) may not agree with how everything was done for the past year, but at least open up to a small possibility that it wasn't all done just to ....(insert conspiracy theory here) and instead people were mostly trying to do what they thought was right.

Off my soapbox.
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Re: Reasons why I will not be getting injected for the Wuhan

Post by Smith1776 » Tue Mar 16, 2021 4:15 pm

Ha! Thanks, Vinny! 8)

And yes, I'm being 100% sincere here. I don't see a good reason why you wouldn't want to get vaccinated. Objections to getting vaccinated are bordering on a level of ridiculousness similar to "5G causes corona" Karen-ism.

HOWEVER, my observation is that those who are mistrustful or conspiracy-minded regarding the vaccine are actually a relatively large group. I blame social media for a lot of the spread of misinformation.

Friend of a friend situation here: let's just call him John. My friend John recently got vaccinated and then read a bunch of conspiracy theories about the vaccine afterwards. He now thinks the vaccine will slowly kill him over the course of the next 12 months. So, he's now blowing all his money on expensive stuff like a new Tesla car and is now flat broke. Not an entirely unreasonable course of action if someone really was going to be dead soon.

We are now planning something of an intervention.
I still find the James Rickards portfolio fascinating.
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Re: Reasons why I will not be getting injected for the Wuhan

Post by flyingpylon » Tue Mar 16, 2021 5:05 pm

Cortopassi wrote:
Tue Mar 16, 2021 4:14 pm
And I just wanted to mention she is alive today because of science.
But not all science is the same. The problem isn't so much with science, it's with scientists or medical professionals, etc. upon whom the vast majority of us have to rely for information. These people are human, they make mistakes, and some have ulterior motives. For the most part, the science employed to save children in critical situations has undergone far more testing and has not been politicized anywhere near as much as the covid vaccine has.

Plus, the government openly lies to people. So there's that. People should at least be skeptical.
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Re: Reasons why I will not be getting injected for the Wuhan

Post by Cortopassi » Tue Mar 16, 2021 5:15 pm

flyingpylon wrote:
Tue Mar 16, 2021 5:05 pm
People should at least be skeptical.
Absolutely.

But the mode nowadays on almost any subject of relatively high interest is to conspiracy theory it immediately.
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Re: Reasons why I will not be getting injected for the Wuhan

Post by vnatale » Tue Mar 16, 2021 6:10 pm

Cortopassi wrote:
Tue Mar 16, 2021 5:15 pm

flyingpylon wrote:
Tue Mar 16, 2021 5:05 pm

People should at least be skeptical.


Absolutely.

But the mode nowadays on almost any subject of relatively high interest is to conspiracy theory it immediately.


Really not trying to take this on a tangent but I have to ask the question.

I love the phrase "conspiracy theory" used as a verb!

My question is it one long verb as in "conspiracy-theory"?

Or, is it an adjective "conspiracy" modifying a verb "theory"?

Or, something else??!!
Above provided by: Vinny, who always says: "I only regret that I have but one lap to give to my cats." AND "I'm a more-is-more person."
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Re: Reasons why I will not be getting injected for the Wuhan

Post by I Shrugged » Tue Mar 16, 2021 6:37 pm

flyingpylon wrote:
Tue Mar 16, 2021 5:05 pm
Cortopassi wrote:
Tue Mar 16, 2021 4:14 pm
And I just wanted to mention she is alive today because of science.
But not all science is the same. The problem isn't so much with science, it's with scientists or medical professionals, etc. upon whom the vast majority of us have to rely for information. These people are human, they make mistakes, and some have ulterior motives. For the most part, the science employed to save children in critical situations has undergone far more testing and has not been politicized anywhere near as much as the covid vaccine has.

Plus, the government openly lies to people. So there's that. People should at least be skeptical.
Science is founded on skepticism and proof. But when it comes to masks and other Covid-19 things, if we are skeptical and/or want proof, we are told to trust science. If we persist, we might be ridiculed or cancelled.

I understand that there might not be proof. But don’t call educated guesses “science”.
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Re: Reasons why I will not be getting injected for the Wuhan

Post by Kriegsspiel » Tue Mar 16, 2021 6:53 pm

Smith1776 wrote:
Tue Mar 16, 2021 3:40 pm
As far as I'm concerned, if you don't get vaccinated when it's available to you you're just being daft.

Like, why are we even debating this? It seems like the obvious choice to me, like looking both ways before crossing the street.
*Shrug*

I am not afraid of corona, So I don't see any reason to rush to get a vaccine that they rushed out. I'd say I'm of the opposite opinion as you; it seems obvious to wait get it since it will become obvious if there are any long term effects long before I age into a vulnerable bracket.

I'm just not an early adopter, especially when it's not crucial.

No issue with people who want to get it though.
You there, Ephialtes. May you live forever.
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Re: Reasons why I will not be getting injected for the Wuhan

Post by Lonestar » Tue Mar 16, 2021 7:09 pm

Tortoise wrote:
Tue Mar 16, 2021 12:07 pm

Given my particularly low risk profile, what is my motivation for taking on the risk of negative long-term effects from the Covid vaccine?
I'll throw one out. Since we don't know how long you will be protected by antibodies, let's say you become infected again. Not entirely impossible. In addition you have no symptoms but viral shedding is occurring and you are contagious. Maybe you are not wearing a mask and you infect someone that is in a high risk group.

So, your motivation is to help protect others. I'm not going to try to convince you to take the vaccine. Just be aware that the person you could potentially infect could not be as fortunate as you.
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Re: Reasons why I will not be getting injected for the Wuhan

Post by vnatale » Tue Mar 16, 2021 7:30 pm

Lonestar wrote:
Tue Mar 16, 2021 7:09 pm

Tortoise wrote:
Tue Mar 16, 2021 12:07 pm


Given my particularly low risk profile, what is my motivation for taking on the risk of negative long-term effects from the Covid vaccine?


I'll throw one out. Since we don't know how long you will be protected by antibodies, let's say you become infected again. Not entirely impossible. In addition you have no symptoms but viral shedding is occurring and you are contagious. Maybe you are not wearing a mask and you infect someone that is in a high risk group.

So, your motivation is to help protect others. I'm not going to try to convince you to take the vaccine. Just be aware that the person you could potentially infect could not be as fortunate as you.


Do I have a mis-understanding?

I thought that the vaccine's purpose was not to prevent one from either acquiring or passing on the virus but to mitigate its damage to you if you get it?
Above provided by: Vinny, who always says: "I only regret that I have but one lap to give to my cats." AND "I'm a more-is-more person."
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Re: Reasons why I will not be getting injected for the Wuhan

Post by Smith1776 » Tue Mar 16, 2021 7:31 pm

Kriegsspiel wrote:
Tue Mar 16, 2021 6:53 pm
Smith1776 wrote:
Tue Mar 16, 2021 3:40 pm
As far as I'm concerned, if you don't get vaccinated when it's available to you you're just being daft.

Like, why are we even debating this? It seems like the obvious choice to me, like looking both ways before crossing the street.
*Shrug*

I am not afraid of corona, So I don't see any reason to rush to get a vaccine that they rushed out. I'd say I'm of the opposite opinion as you; it seems obvious to wait get it since it will become obvious if there are any long term effects long before I age into a vulnerable bracket.

I'm just not an early adopter, especially when it's not crucial.

No issue with people who want to get it though.
Corona is great. The slice of lime really adds flavour. ^-^
I still find the James Rickards portfolio fascinating.
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Re: Reasons why I will not be getting injected for the Wuhan

Post by Kriegsspiel » Tue Mar 16, 2021 7:35 pm

Lonestar wrote:
Tue Mar 16, 2021 7:09 pm
Tortoise wrote:
Tue Mar 16, 2021 12:07 pm

Given my particularly low risk profile, what is my motivation for taking on the risk of negative long-term effects from the Covid vaccine?
I'll throw one out. Since we don't know how long you will be protected by antibodies, let's say you become infected again. Not entirely impossible. In addition you have no symptoms but viral shedding is occurring and you are contagious. Maybe you are not wearing a mask and you infect someone that is in a high risk group.

So, your motivation is to help protect others. I'm not going to try to convince you to take the vaccine. Just be aware that the person you could potentially infect could not be as fortunate as you.
The other person should get vaccinated or isolate if they don't want to risk catching it. It's a dick move to put yourself at risk and them blame other people.
You there, Ephialtes. May you live forever.
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