This was the line that got me!tomfoolery wrote: ↑Mon Feb 15, 2021 1:38 pmI pray we never have a disease with 100% asymptomatic status or it would be the undoing of humanity as we know it.
You're on fire tomf!
Moderator: Global Moderator
This was the line that got me!tomfoolery wrote: ↑Mon Feb 15, 2021 1:38 pmI pray we never have a disease with 100% asymptomatic status or it would be the undoing of humanity as we know it.
I can definitely see your point about why IQ testing would skew numbers lower for Somalians. I doubt that many of them have read much Friedman or Schiff, if only because they probably haven't been translated into Somali (not sure if that's their language) that much.tomfoolery wrote: ↑Mon Feb 15, 2021 1:28 pmWell first, the average IQ of Somalis being lower than Norway is because IQ tests are biased and racist against blacks, especially poor, uneducated ones. Which is why we need to remove all form of IQ testing from our society, including IQ-wannabes like the SAT test and instead use alternative assessment measures that are more fair to poor minorities as college entrance mechanisms. This is the only way to remove the cycle of poverty. Sure, free college is great, and we’ll work on that under our administration, but if it only services the privileged white class due to racist barriers such as the SAT, then it will only lead to greater inequalities.
Second, Somalia chose to be libertarian because they are uneducated and believed what they read on the internet by Milton Friedman and Peter Schiff. It’s no coincidence Norway has the highest advanced degrees per capita and properly chose socialism based on informed educations.
Tortoise wrote: ↑Mon Feb 15, 2021 1:41 pm
mathjak107 wrote: ↑Mon Feb 15, 2021 11:57 am
The problem is the young would go maskless and spew large viral loads on others , especially the older .
With 43% of positives asymptomatic that is a big problem .
Masks don’t stop virus material but they do stop concentrated viral loads which is the biggest factor as to how we do and how bad
Then I guess I'm a bit confused about the point you're trying to make.
In one of your previous posts, you said "People as a society react better when the messages are how things relate to them and protect them ..they are less responsive when it is something they have to do to protect someone else..."
So then I agreed with you and said yes, it's probably more effective to frame the message in a way that allows people to assess their own risk and take appropriate measures to protect themselves. Because people respond to those kinds of messages better than "you're responsible for protecting everyone else" kinds of messages.
But then you seemed to disagree with me and said (to paraphrase), "But we still need to tell everyone to wear masks because if you don't wear a mask, you endanger other people." Which seems to contradict what you said about people responding better to messages about how they can protect themselves.
If I've misunderstood you, please set me straight.
This feels a bit like a personal attack. No one is attacking libertarians for the nonsense you believe.Tortoise wrote: ↑Mon Feb 15, 2021 3:31 pmI understand the motivation behind asking people to wear masks and drive safely, Vinny.
The main point of my latest post was to understand mathjak's thought process, because he seemed to be saying two contradictory things: (1) People respond better to messages telling them how to protect themselves rather than how to protect others, and (2) people should be told to wear masks because it protects others.
Hopefully that clarifies my question. And it's a question that only mathjak can answer since it concerns his thought process, not other people's assumptions or guesses about his thought process.
Yes to both points ...the cdc , The Who and the talking heads were trying to convince the public to wear masks because they said masks protect others .....that is true .Tortoise wrote: ↑Mon Feb 15, 2021 3:31 pmI understand the motivation behind asking people to wear masks and drive safely, Vinny.
The main point of my latest post was to understand mathjak's thought process, because he seemed to be saying two contradictory things: (1) People respond better to messages telling them how to protect themselves rather than how to protect others, and (2) people should be told to wear masks because it protects others.
Hopefully that clarifies my question. And it's a question that only mathjak can answer since it concerns his thought process, not other people's assumptions or guesses about his thought process.
Yes, thanks for clarifying, mathjak.mathjak107 wrote: ↑Mon Feb 15, 2021 3:38 pmThey are both true about masks [masks protect others and yourself] but there was so much opposition by many to masks because they were led to believe the benefit was for others and not themselves .
Got it now ?
As a person who is maskless as much as humanly possible while still functioning in society.....you are spot on.Tortoise wrote: ↑Mon Feb 15, 2021 4:23 pmIn other words, if we were to ask them, I think most maskless people would say they're maskless not because they care more about themselves than about other people, but because they don't trust the media and authorities who are telling them being maskless is deadly.
Tortoise wrote: ↑Mon Feb 15, 2021 4:23 pm
mathjak107 wrote: ↑Mon Feb 15, 2021 3:38 pm
They are both true about masks [masks protect others and yourself] but there was so much opposition by many to masks because they were led to believe the benefit was for others and not themselves .
Got it now ?
Yes, thanks for clarifying, mathjak.
Maybe somebody has already done this, but it would be interesting to poll a bunch of maskless people in places where masks are the norm and ask them for their rationale.
It's possible that some of them would say, "My personal comfort matters more to me than the possibility that I'm spreading more virus to others by not wearing a mask." But I suspect not many would, because although most people are selfish to varying degrees, most people are also not fundamentally evil.
So I think far more of them would probably say things along the lines of, "I don't see piles of bodies in the street, nor do I even personally know a single person who's died or been hospitalized due to Covid, so my common sense tells me this 'pandemic' isn't nearly as deadly and worrisome as many people are claiming it is. So I'm generally skeptical when those same people say that wearing a mask in public is a life-or-death matter."
In other words, if we were to ask them, I think most maskless people would say they're maskless not because they care more about themselves than about other people, but because they don't trust the media and authorities who are telling them being maskless is deadly.
I echo the same experience. Everyone in my family and all of my friends have responsibly worn masks and none of know even know a single person who got covid. It’s really incredible that something as simple as masks work!Cortopassi wrote: ↑Tue Feb 16, 2021 8:12 amIn my experience, masks do seem to provide some level of protection.
Since March of last year, no one in my immediate family has gotten any kind of cold like illness. Sure, some can be attributed to not being in school. But for me and my wife, life has been pretty normal -- I go to work every day, we shop as usual, etc. I think I typically would get 2-4 colds a year, and my oldest daughter probably 6-10. Zero in the past 12 months. And she is at school.
Not saying that will mean I will wear a mask once I don't have to, but either/or/both mask wearing and distancing has dropped sickness a lot, in my family.
Were they recklessly only wearing one or responsibly wearing two?tomfoolery wrote: ↑Tue Feb 16, 2021 10:30 amI echo the same experience. Everyone in my family and all of my friends have responsibly worn masks and none of know even know a single person who got covid. It’s really incredible that something as simple as masks work!Cortopassi wrote: ↑Tue Feb 16, 2021 8:12 amIn my experience, masks do seem to provide some level of protection.
Since March of last year, no one in my immediate family has gotten any kind of cold like illness. Sure, some can be attributed to not being in school. But for me and my wife, life has been pretty normal -- I go to work every day, we shop as usual, etc. I think I typically would get 2-4 colds a year, and my oldest daughter probably 6-10. Zero in the past 12 months. And she is at school.
Not saying that will mean I will wear a mask once I don't have to, but either/or/both mask wearing and distancing has dropped sickness a lot, in my family.
Hmm.mathjak107 wrote: ↑Tue Feb 16, 2021 10:37 amIt is just a numbers game ...it is hard to find people that did not test positive and have covid or have some one in their family with it here in nyc
.
I lost count of all of those I know ...the more exposed to it mask or not the greater the odds of getting it ..
Unless you hide under a rock and never go out it was all over and with almost half of positives asymptomatic it easily was passed around families in the same household
You're on to something here.Unless you hide under a rock and never go out it was all over and with almost half of positives asymptomatic it easily was passed around families in the same household
Why are New Yorkers being allowed outside their homes? Especially if you find it hard to find people or families unaffected by COVID, which is the opposite situation from a huge swath of the country. They clearly are not able to handle this. NYC would greatly benefit from having the military deployed to the city to weld doors closed and protect dirty sniffling New Yorkers from spreading the plague among themselves. Plus, they have the flamethrowers to responsibly cremate bodies in place.Unless you hide under a rock and never go out it was all over
Why don’t we lock ourselves inside ? Because there are things you always need to do or get or take care off.Kriegsspiel wrote: ↑Tue Feb 16, 2021 11:39 amHmm.mathjak107 wrote: ↑Tue Feb 16, 2021 10:37 amIt is just a numbers game ...it is hard to find people that did not test positive and have covid or have some one in their family with it here in nyc
.
I lost count of all of those I know ...the more exposed to it mask or not the greater the odds of getting it ..
Unless you hide under a rock and never go out it was all over and with almost half of positives asymptomatic it easily was passed around families in the same householdYou're on to something here.Unless you hide under a rock and never go out it was all over and with almost half of positives asymptomatic it easily was passed around families in the same householdWhy are New Yorkers being allowed outside their homes? Especially if you find it hard to find people or families unaffected by COVID, which is the opposite situation from a huge swath of the country. They clearly are not able to handle this. NYC would greatly benefit from having the military deployed to the city to weld doors closed and protect dirty sniffling New Yorkers from spreading the plague among themselves. Plus, they have the flamethrowers to responsibly cremate bodies in place.Unless you hide under a rock and never go out it was all over
It's funny to remember that NYC had set up barriers for people coming INTO it, instead of quarantining the city from the rest of the country. Other places, of course, don't need that kind of help, like the Dakotas, Florida, WV, etc.
You will not be able to get out when your doors, windows, and weaker walls are reinforced by 2 inches of steel. It's for your own good.mathjak107 wrote: ↑Tue Feb 16, 2021 12:20 pmNonsense ....we were just as able to get out , go to parks , outdoor exercise as anyone else ...just not near others which has been no problem ... we were out daily all year doing our photography thing ....we just go where no one is around us.
I disagree, millions of people sit in a rooms and stare at the walls. A lot of them even get jacked and have books written about their training system. Maybe a "COVID Conditioning" one could come out of this? Either way, it's not so absurd when you think about it. By your own admission, nearly 100% of New Yorkers are guilty of spreading disease, so this is totally legit and legal.To think people are going to sit in their house for a year and look at the walls is absurd