COVID Cases Sharply Declining: Why This Is Worst Case Scenario

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Re: COVID Cases Sharply Declining: Why This Is Worst Case Scenario

Post by pp4me » Tue Feb 23, 2021 6:26 pm

SomeDude wrote:
Tue Feb 23, 2021 6:06 pm
pp4me wrote:
Tue Feb 23, 2021 5:46 pm
SomeDude wrote:
Tue Feb 23, 2021 5:45 pm
pp4me wrote:
Tue Feb 23, 2021 5:13 pm
I also haven't met a single person who has even gotten COVID. A barber told me she had a friend who got it but didn't even pass it on to her family but that is actually the closest I've gotten to any real world contact with the virus - the rest is all on television or the internet.

I'm excluding the members of this forum just like I do famous people who got it because I'm talking about people I come into contact with face-to-face or at least one level removed.

With 500k deaths out of 330 million people, mostly affecting the elderly, that probably isn't surprising.
You're in Pinellas right PP? So am I. North st. Pete lil west of 19.
Yes I am. Hi neighbor. I live in Oldsmar.
Cool. I've lived in Clearwater, Dunedin, Crystal Beach and Seminole. Played a lot of tennis in oldsmar.

Supposedly we've had 1,500 covid-related deaths in our county of 1M which is right in line with the rest of the country. We do have an older pop though with about double the national average of folks over 65. I'm guess that's nearly all the deaths and they mostly all had co-morbidities.

For me Covid is something on TV or the internet that for some reason people wear masks now and bars close early. I've gone back to the office and take my mask off at my desk, even though we work in a big open floor.
Don't mean to minimize the experience of others like Mathjak but when you look at the statistics his seems to be more of an outlier than our own. I would most definitely take it more serious than I am if I was him.
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Re: COVID Cases Sharply Declining: Why This Is Worst Case Scenario

Post by mathjak107 » Tue Feb 23, 2021 6:52 pm

We have lost 1 out of 9 people over 70 in nyc who had covid
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Re: COVID Cases Sharply Declining: Why This Is Worst Case Scenario

Post by jalanlong » Tue Feb 23, 2021 7:01 pm

SomeDude wrote:
Tue Feb 23, 2021 3:58 pm
Tortoise wrote:
Tue Feb 23, 2021 1:00 pm
I Shrugged wrote:
Tue Feb 23, 2021 11:10 am
By last summer I figured there wouldn’t be much flu because of the COVID precautions. I know you [SomeDude] don’t want to believe that, but I do.
If the Covid precautions worked so well for the flu, why didn't they also work for Covid?
Everyone at risk from the flu was already dead from Covid I guess. I must be the luckiest guy on Earth, i don't know a single person who has told me they know a single person who has died from it, or even gotten sick.

And i mean no offense to the people on the forum who've said they've lost friends or family. I just consider this the internet, and all that comes with that, and don't include people from the internet in my life experience.

Saying "i know a guy on the internet who goes by the handle KingKongAlBundy lost his great aunt from Covid" isn't really evidence of a pandemic.

If i went by what I've seen from my non internet life which includes tons of people in the medical industry and about 90 days in a hospital myself last year.....Covid looks like a total hoax still.
I would second that. In a year only one person in my office even thought they got it. They took a rapid test that came out positive and then got a doctor’s office test that came out negative. Despite that i still have a great number of co-workers who are scared and think any day is their day to die.

My son’s school has around 500 teachers and students. Since it opened up in September, they have had 4 “cases” meaning positive tests. No deaths.

Nobody in my family has gotten it except for an aunt. She is in her 70s and very sickly and even she got over in within a week.

So I agree, if I went from my personal universe this is the biggest nothing burger/ overreaction of my lifetime.
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Re: COVID Cases Sharply Declining: Why This Is Worst Case Scenario

Post by tomfoolery » Tue Feb 23, 2021 7:38 pm

SomeDude wrote:
Tue Feb 23, 2021 3:58 pm

Saying "i know a guy on the internet who goes by the handle KingKongAlBundy lost his great aunt from Covid" isn't really evidence of a pandemic.
I know 500,000 Americans who died of Covid. They were all my brothers or sisters. Dead.
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Re: COVID Cases Sharply Declining: Why This Is Worst Case Scenario

Post by SomeDude » Tue Feb 23, 2021 8:20 pm

tomfoolery wrote:
Tue Feb 23, 2021 7:38 pm
SomeDude wrote:
Tue Feb 23, 2021 3:58 pm

Saying "i know a guy on the internet who goes by the handle KingKongAlBundy lost his great aunt from Covid" isn't really evidence of a pandemic.
I know 500,000 Americans who died of Covid. They were all my brothers or sisters. Dead.
I assume you're referring to the way the racist virus deliberately targets African Americans.
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Re: COVID Cases Sharply Declining: Why This Is Worst Case Scenario

Post by pp4me » Tue Feb 23, 2021 8:48 pm

SomeDude wrote:
Tue Feb 23, 2021 8:20 pm
tomfoolery wrote:
Tue Feb 23, 2021 7:38 pm
SomeDude wrote:
Tue Feb 23, 2021 3:58 pm

Saying "i know a guy on the internet who goes by the handle KingKongAlBundy lost his great aunt from Covid" isn't really evidence of a pandemic.
I know 500,000 Americans who died of Covid. They were all my brothers or sisters. Dead.
I assume you're referring to the way the racist virus deliberately targets African Americans.
Just a guess from an uneducated source but if Covid disproportionately affects African Americans as well as other dark-skinned people more than Caucasians it might have much less do to with racism than Vitamin D.

Then again, I'm not a politician so what do I know?
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Re: COVID Cases Sharply Declining: Why This Is Worst Case Scenario

Post by Mark Leavy » Tue Feb 23, 2021 8:56 pm

pp4me wrote:
Tue Feb 23, 2021 8:48 pm

Just a guess from an uneducated source but if Covid disproportionately affects African Americans as well as other dark-skinned people more than Caucasians it might have much less do to with racism than Vitamin D.

Then again, I'm not a politician so what do I know?
Vitamin D is a likely factor, but probably not primary. Add it in to the mix of obesity, Type 2 diabetes and eating crap foods. All of which neuter the immune system. The African American community is disproportionally represented in all of the risk factors.
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Re: COVID Cases Sharply Declining: Why This Is Worst Case Scenario

Post by sophie » Wed Feb 24, 2021 8:32 am

Mark Leavy wrote:
Tue Feb 23, 2021 8:56 pm
pp4me wrote:
Tue Feb 23, 2021 8:48 pm

Just a guess from an uneducated source but if Covid disproportionately affects African Americans as well as other dark-skinned people more than Caucasians it might have much less do to with racism than Vitamin D.

Then again, I'm not a politician so what do I know?
Vitamin D is a likely factor, but probably not primary. Add it in to the mix of obesity, Type 2 diabetes and eating crap foods. All of which neuter the immune system. The African American community is disproportionally represented in all of the risk factors.
Not just African Americans...Hispanics too.

I thought this was all bodega syndrome, i.e. what happens when you eat a cheap, sugary grain-based diet. Plus the vitamin D issue which is definitely a major factor. But, look at the high death rates in Peru and Ecuador, where there's no shortage of sun exposure and the USDA's long arm does not reach. Maybe there is a genetic basis contributing as well. (The whole "racism" thing is of course laughable.)

I saw an interesting PBS documentary about small English villages that survived the Black Death. A genetics study of descendants of survivors still living in those villages revealed a high incidence of a particular gene linked to immune proteins (sorry I forget exactly what it was). If this gene (and probably others that were not studied) was protective, then the Black Death effectively selected for it in the European population. Since African and Hispanic (i.e. native American) populations didn't get hit with the Black Death, they wouldn't have undergone this selection process and hence may fare worse with infectious diseases than people of European descent. This is just a hypothesis, but it sounds intriguing.

I think it's also the case that these same populations do worse with other bugs, such as the flu. It's not just COVID that they have a problem with.
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Re: COVID Cases Sharply Declining: Why This Is Worst Case Scenario

Post by tomfoolery » Wed Feb 24, 2021 10:04 am

Mark Leavy wrote:
Tue Feb 23, 2021 8:56 pm
pp4me wrote:
Tue Feb 23, 2021 8:48 pm

Just a guess from an uneducated source but if Covid disproportionately affects African Americans as well as other dark-skinned people more than Caucasians it might have much less do to with racism than Vitamin D.

Then again, I'm not a politician so what do I know?
Vitamin D is a likely factor, but probably not primary. Add it in to the mix of obesity, Type 2 diabetes and eating crap foods. All of which neuter the immune system. The African American community is disproportionally represented in all of the risk factors.
Please preface any statements about the African American community with “as a white person, I believe...” so you don’t come off as a racist. I know you are not a racist, Mr Levvy and making such prefixes avoids any confusion.
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Re: COVID Cases Sharply Declining: Why This Is Worst Case Scenario

Post by Kriegsspiel » Wed Feb 24, 2021 11:28 am

sophie wrote:
Wed Feb 24, 2021 8:32 am
I saw an interesting PBS documentary about small English villages that survived the Black Death. A genetics study of descendants of survivors still living in those villages revealed a high incidence of a particular gene linked to immune proteins (sorry I forget exactly what it was). If this gene (and probably others that were not studied) was protective, then the Black Death effectively selected for it in the European population. Since African and Hispanic (i.e. native American) populations didn't get hit with the Black Death, they wouldn't have undergone this selection process and hence may fare worse with infectious diseases than people of European descent. This is just a hypothesis, but it sounds intriguing.

I think it's also the case that these same populations do worse with other bugs, such as the flu. It's not just COVID that they have a problem with.
I think I had posted this last year, but in case you missed it, you might find it interesting.
Coronaviruses infect lung tissue via a receptor, ACE2, that varies structurally not only between Asians and other human groups but also between different Asian groups. In particular, the Chinese population has fewer alleles that code for weak binding to the coronavirus S-protein (Cao et al. 2020). Different ACE2 alleles are also associated with differences in susceptibility to diabetic retinopathy, an eye disease with a distinct global pattern of prevalence: 22% in Italy, 23% in China, 30% in the United Kingdom, and 40% in the United States (Adams 2020).

This geographic pattern doesn’t exist because some populations have become more resistant to coronaviruses. Instead, the reverse seems to have happened: some populations have become more susceptible to coronavirus infection, perhaps as a means to prevent more serious pulmonary infections, like tuberculosis and pneumonic plague (Shekhar et al. 2017). Such an effect has been shown with γherpesvirus 68 and cytomegalovirus (Barton et al. 2007; Miller et al. 2019). This crude vaccination boosts the immune response through increased production of IFN-γ and increased activation of macrophages.

Historically, tuberculosis was especially common in crowded environments, where people lived in proximity not only to each other but also to domesticated animals (Comas et al. 2013). Such environments have existed continuously for the longest time in China, as well as in areas like the Indo-Gangetic Plain, the Fertile Crescent, and the Mediterranean Basin. Those areas are where people should be most susceptible to coronavirus infection.

This may explain why COVID-19 has been more severe in southern Europe than in northern Europe. It is surprising that infection tends to become less severe with latitude when one would expect the opposite: respiratory viruses spread more effectively under conditions of lower temperature, lower humidity, and lower solar UV.
link
And also:
ACE2 is a cell receptor that mediates the infection of lung tissue by coronaviruses, either the one that causes COVID-19 or others that cause the common cold. The ACE2 gene has 1,700 alleles, some of which are associated with increased susceptibility to coronavirus infection (Frost 2020).

This difference in susceptibility has been shown in a recent Indian study (Srivastava et al. 2020). COVID-19 is most fatal in the western states of Gujarat, Maharashtra, Madhya Pradesh, and Punjab. Conversely, it is least fatal in the northeast states of Assam, Arunachal Pradesh, and Nagaland. This pattern closely correlates with genetic variation at the rs2285666 locus of ACE2. The presence or absence of a single allele explains 35% of the variation in the COVID-19 case-fatality rate.

The authors conclude that some kind of selection has been acting on rs2285666. If we look at the map, susceptibility to COVID-19 seems to be strongest in those regions with the longest history of sedentary living and large urban centers. Conversely, it seems to be weakest in the Northeast, which is home to people who, until recent times, belonged to small communities that routinely moved from one cultivable area to another.

These findings are consistent with the hypothesis that the ACE2 receptor has coevolved with human environments.
link
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Re: COVID Cases Sharply Declining: Why This Is Worst Case Scenario

Post by sophie » Wed Feb 24, 2021 12:31 pm

I did miss it Kriegspiel, thanks. Great information.

In any case, it certainly is far more reasonable to look for causes of racial outcome disparity in genetics, than in supposing that a virus that doesn't have a brain is racist. Not to mention that "health care disparities" is a fondly held liberal myth. The racial disparities are plenty striking in states like New York, in which the lions share of state spending goes to Medicaid, and the black/Hispanic population in consequence has better health coverage than the general population. Also, "health care disparities" and "racism" wouldn't explain Peru & Ecuador.
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Re: COVID Cases Sharply Declining: Why This Is Worst Case Scenario

Post by barrett » Wed Feb 24, 2021 1:57 pm

On the narrative of Covid being worse for Blacks and Latinos...

I have heard this virtually non-stop in recent months and never bothered to check the numbers online. Here's what I found with a quick google search:

As of 2019, here is the distribution of the U.S. population by race and ethnicity:

White: 60.1% (Non-Hispanic)
Hispanic: 18.5%
Black: 12.2%
Asian: 5.6%
Multiple Races: 2.8%
American Indian/Alaska Native: 0.7%
Native Hawaiian/Other Pacific Islander: 0.2%

And here is a link for U.S. Covid deaths by race through 2/17 (apologies but this one is in bar graph form):

https://www.statista.com/statistics/112 ... y-race-us/

So the narrative as judged strictly by deaths up to this point is false. In other words, here in the US, Covid deaths match up almost exactly with racial distribution.

I was curious to look into this as I have seen for months that Covid doesn't seem to be nearly as bad in sub-Sahara Africa as it is in Europe and the U.S..

Also, Sophie, note that according to the Worldometers Covid data, Peru and Ecuador rank 19th and 39th respectively in terms of deaths per million. So still high but not at the very top of the list.

Here is that Worldometers link:

https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/
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Re: COVID Cases Sharply Declining: Why This Is Worst Case Scenario

Post by Tortoise » Wed Feb 24, 2021 2:07 pm

barrett wrote:
Wed Feb 24, 2021 1:57 pm
I was curious to look into this as I have seen for months that Covid doesn't seem to be nearly as bad in sub-Sahara Africa as it is in Europe and the U.S..
Africa has a much younger population than the US and Europe: Median age of 19.7 compared to 38.1 and 42.5, respectively.

Age is the biggest risk factor for Covid, so that explains most of the difference.
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Re: COVID Cases Sharply Declining: Why This Is Worst Case Scenario

Post by barrett » Wed Feb 24, 2021 2:15 pm

Tortoise wrote:
Wed Feb 24, 2021 2:07 pm
barrett wrote:
Wed Feb 24, 2021 1:57 pm
I was curious to look into this as I have seen for months that Covid doesn't seem to be nearly as bad in sub-Sahara Africa as it is in Europe and the U.S..
Africa has a much younger population than the US and Europe: Median age of 19.7 compared to 38.1 and 42.5, respectively.

Age is the biggest risk factor for Covid, so that explains most of the difference.
You are, of course, correct, Tortoise. But my main point was that the White/Black/Latino narrative appears to be false.
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Re: COVID Cases Sharply Declining: Why This Is Worst Case Scenario

Post by Tortoise » Wed Feb 24, 2021 2:45 pm

I wouldn’t necessarily call it false per se. Race/ethnicity just shouldn’t be considered in isolation. It needs to be considered in combination with age and other risk factors.
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Re: COVID Cases Sharply Declining: Why This Is Worst Case Scenario

Post by Kriegsspiel » Wed Feb 24, 2021 7:21 pm

tomfoolery wrote:
Tue Feb 23, 2021 7:38 pm
SomeDude wrote:
Tue Feb 23, 2021 3:58 pm

Saying "i know a guy on the internet who goes by the handle KingKongAlBundy lost his great aunt from Covid" isn't really evidence of a pandemic.
I know 500,000 Americans who died of Covid. They were all my brothers or sisters. Dead.
From August 2020.
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[It is a] fact beyond question that soldiers' battles, where one side is entrenched and invisible and the other advancing in attack, are things of the past, except in a wooded country or where all preliminary movements are concealed. We had soldiers' battles here, but by fighting them the lesson has been taught which the world will learn.
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Re: COVID Cases Sharply Declining: Why This Is Worst Case Scenario

Post by sophie » Fri Feb 26, 2021 6:40 pm

barrett wrote:
Wed Feb 24, 2021 1:57 pm
On the narrative of Covid being worse for Blacks and Latinos...

I have heard this virtually non-stop in recent months and never bothered to check the numbers online. Here's what I found with a quick google search:

As of 2019, here is the distribution of the U.S. population by race and ethnicity:

White: 60.1% (Non-Hispanic)
Hispanic: 18.5%
Black: 12.2%
Asian: 5.6%
Multiple Races: 2.8%
American Indian/Alaska Native: 0.7%
Native Hawaiian/Other Pacific Islander: 0.2%

And here is a link for U.S. Covid deaths by race through 2/17 (apologies but this one is in bar graph form):

https://www.statista.com/statistics/112 ... y-race-us/

So the narrative as judged strictly by deaths up to this point is false. In other words, here in the US, Covid deaths match up almost exactly with racial distribution.

I was curious to look into this as I have seen for months that Covid doesn't seem to be nearly as bad in sub-Sahara Africa as it is in Europe and the U.S..

Also, Sophie, note that according to the Worldometers Covid data, Peru and Ecuador rank 19th and 39th respectively in terms of deaths per million. So still high but not at the very top of the list.

Here is that Worldometers link:

https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/
This is quite puzzling! Here's the CDC's numbers:

https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-nc ... icity.html

yet, when I look up cases & deaths by demographics on the same website, they don't support those multipliers.

Something is indeed weird about these numbers. And, I know I saw #s earlier for Peru and Ecuador that showed an outsized case load....again I think on the CDC's website.
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Re: COVID Cases Sharply Declining: Why This Is Worst Case Scenario

Post by SomeDude » Sat Feb 27, 2021 3:28 am

mathjak107 wrote:
Tue Feb 23, 2021 6:52 pm
We have lost 1 out of 9 people over 70 in nyc who had covid
The people who officially "have" Covid are a subset of the people who actually contract it. People over 70 who officially have it would be much more likely to have been exhibiting symptoms than younger people, which prompted getting tested. Younger people are more likely to be randomly tested as a consequence of work.

So you've got a group of people over 70, likely to be exhibiting symptoms or in a nursing facility, likely to be in the unhealthiest 50% of an already high mortality group dying at the rate of 11%. Since the average life expectancy is 81, is this even any change? Isn't covid disproportionately affecting men? Don't men already have a life expectancy of 76 or 77?

If you told me 11% of people die annually over the age of 70 who get the flu in NYC and 60% of them are men, would that even sound like a thing?

If you said 50% ok, that would sound like a thing.

And yes, 70 is still young. But "over 70" includes 75, 80, 85, etc. At a certain age in your 70s, EVERYONE has an 11% chance of dying each year for any reason under the sun.

MJ those numbers don't sound like coronavirus is even a factor. Since almost no one under the age of 70 is at risk of dying either.......why did so many lives have to be ruined again? Its heartbreaking what the Americans will tolerate. The future does not look bright.
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Re: COVID Cases Sharply Declining: Why This Is Worst Case Scenario

Post by mathjak107 » Sat Feb 27, 2021 3:46 am

We have had over 500,000 covid deaths of all ages except kids , the bulk are older because this disease has an age curve for a few reasons not just being sickly prior .

That is more than three wars added up ...so I would hardly say the effect of covid is meh. The death rate is 10x to 20x what flu runs typically

510k deaths in a country of 328 million and almost 30 million cases many of which were severe as well as a good portion of the severe have permanent effects or very long term effects is a lot.

But don’t misunderstand, I am not saying the total shutdown made a lot of sense the way they did it
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Re: COVID Cases Sharply Declining: Why This Is Worst Case Scenario

Post by SomeDude » Sat Feb 27, 2021 1:51 pm

mathjak107 wrote:
Sat Feb 27, 2021 3:46 am
We have had over 500,000 covid deaths of all ages except kids , the bulk are older because this disease has an age curve for a few reasons not just being sickly prior .

That is more than three wars added up ...so I would hardly say the effect of covid is meh. The death rate is 10x to 20x what flu runs typically

510k deaths in a country of 328 million and almost 30 million cases many of which were severe as well as a good portion of the severe have permanent effects or very long term effects is a lot.

But don’t misunderstand, I am not saying the total shutdown made a lot of sense the way they did it
And I sympathize with anyone who was dreadfully ill, and/or lost a friend or family member because of it, truly and sincerely.

I just think the "death rates" are extremely over estimated. 30M cases means 30M people who tested positive. That is only a subset of the people who actually were positive. Many millions more were positive but never got tested for whatever reason. The people who did get tested, were more likely to be exhibiting symptoms, which means older or otherwise compromised or already in the hospital for another reason. 500k people haven't died of Covid. They are classified as "covid-related" because they tested positive AND died for whatever reason (including falling off ladders, car and motorcycle accidents, cancer, heart disease, etc).

30M positive tests means at LEAST 40M real positive people, maybe it means 60M or 80M. 500k deaths of this population is right in line with the mortality rate for the general population. This is even less concerning when you consider the normal mortality rate for people age 65 or higher is much higher than 1%.

The point of all this is I've done the math on other threads. I've issued the Covid-math challenge for anyone to explain how covid is causing excess deaths when the death rate is basically in-line with the general mortality rate. To me it looks like at worst it accelerated the deaths of people already likely to die within 12-24 months, at worst. And this sounds like the same as the flu.

As for it being deadlier than the flu, have we ever recorded people dying of cancer, heart disease, car accidents, falling off ladders, etc. as "flu-related"?
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Re: COVID Cases Sharply Declining: Why This Is Worst Case Scenario

Post by mathjak107 » Sat Feb 27, 2021 2:59 pm

You can try downplaying it all you want .....it is what it is
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Re: COVID Cases Sharply Declining: Why This Is Worst Case Scenario

Post by stuper1 » Sat Feb 27, 2021 4:30 pm

Didn't hospitals get more money by labeling deaths as caused by Covid? You don't think that didn't skew the numbers? Follow the money.
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Re: COVID Cases Sharply Declining: Why This Is Worst Case Scenario

Post by Tortoise » Sat Feb 27, 2021 4:41 pm

stuper1 wrote:
Sat Feb 27, 2021 4:30 pm
Didn't hospitals get more money by labeling deaths as caused by Covid? You don't think that didn't skew the numbers? Follow the money.
Conspiracy theory. Nobody is motivated by money.
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Re: COVID Cases Sharply Declining: Why This Is Worst Case Scenario

Post by mathjak107 » Sun Feb 28, 2021 2:12 am

SomeDude wrote:
Sat Feb 27, 2021 1:51 pm
mathjak107 wrote:
Sat Feb 27, 2021 3:46 am
We have had over 500,000 covid deaths of all ages except kids , the bulk are older because this disease has an age curve for a few reasons not just being sickly prior .

That is more than three wars added up ...so I would hardly say the effect of covid is meh. The death rate is 10x to 20x what flu runs typically

510k deaths in a country of 328 million and almost 30 million cases many of which were severe as well as a good portion of the severe have permanent effects or very long term effects is a lot.

But don’t misunderstand, I am not saying the total shutdown made a lot of sense the way they did it
And I sympathize with anyone who was dreadfully ill, and/or lost a friend or family member because of it, truly and sincerely.

I just think the "death rates" are extremely over estimated. 30M cases means 30M people who tested positive. That is only a subset of the people who actually were positive. Many millions more were positive but never got tested for whatever reason. The people who did get tested, were more likely to be exhibiting symptoms, which means older or otherwise compromised or already in the hospital for another reason. 500k people haven't died of Covid. They are classified as "covid-related" because they tested positive AND died for whatever reason (including falling off ladders, car and motorcycle accidents, cancer, heart disease, etc).

30M positive tests means at LEAST 40M real positive people, maybe it means 60M or 80M. 500k deaths of this population is right in line with the mortality rate for the general population. This is even less concerning when you consider the normal mortality rate for people age 65 or higher is much higher than 1%.

The point of all this is I've done the math on other threads. I've issued the Covid-math challenge for anyone to explain how covid is causing excess deaths when the death rate is basically in-line with the general mortality rate. To me it looks like at worst it accelerated the deaths of people already likely to die within 12-24 months, at worst. And this sounds like the same as the flu.

As for it being deadlier than the flu, have we ever recorded people dying of cancer, heart disease, car accidents, falling off ladders, etc. as "flu-related"?
Most of us will die from heart disease or cancer...but we don’t can’t stop cancer by not breathing on each other , we don’t stop car crashes or heart disease by not breathing on each other ..so there is no comparison here to preventing covid deaths and serious illness
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Re: COVID Cases Sharply Declining: Why This Is Worst Case Scenario

Post by mathjak107 » Sun Feb 28, 2021 5:29 am

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