How companies profit from "Artificial Complexity"

[vnatale]

I'm with Vinny on Subway. Well, one sub in particular; the Sweet Onion Chicken Teryaki is fucking delicious. COME AT ME BROS.

My second "expert" witness makes his appearance!

I also have guacamole in what I order. The total bill is $8.82. I think I must buy the highest margin product from them as it seems like it'd be stretching it to believe that there is ever $2.00 worth of food in what I am buying.

Vinny

[Pointedstick]

Y'all are crazy. Footlong black forest ham on wheat with extra american cheese FTW! Load it up with every veggie they have and no sauce. Mmmmm I'm salivating just thinking about it.

[Smith1776]

Tuna, guys. Friggin tuna. It’s all about those bodybuilding GAINZ.

With southwest sauce of course.

[Mark Leavy]

Here's my subway story. Many many years ago.

At that time they were experimenting with a few sandwiches with round buns.

I asked for a meatball sandwich on the round bun.

They said they don't do that.

I said. You have meatballs. You have round buns. Make me a meatball sandwich on a round bun.

They said they don't do that.

I said. Give me a veggie sandwich on a round bun. And a 6" meatball sandwich on a whole wheat roll. Now throw away the veggies and the whole wheat roll.

That was before the wiser, kinder, gentler Mark that I am today.

[barrett]

I guess I'll have to try a damn Subway again. I'm like Cortopassi in that I haven't been to one in about ten years. But that's because the sandwiches were bad the last ten times or so that I went. I felt like a kid who keeps burning themselves on a hot stove.

Mark, thanks for sharing your meatball on a roll story! Hilarious. It reminds me of a time that I went to a diner close to Binghamton, NY with a friend and he tried to get a bowl of clam chowder. They only served a CUP of clam chowder. They served other things in bowls. They had bowls. They just couldn't put twice the normal amount of chowder in one and come up with a price for the transaction.

But, seriously, it pains me to see this forum torn apart by Subway.

[Mountaineer]

Because I stopped eating anything {peanut butter} that has any sugar related ingredient in the peanut butter plus I don't want any salt in it either that lessens my choices considerably.

Vinny

Well, now I understand why you eat at Subway. You don't have functioning tastebuds.

They function extremely well. I generally eat food wherein they are the only single ingredient. My foods have no sugar and little salt in them. I actually do taste my food.

Vinny

Aside from the fact that humans require sodium to survive, the purpose of salt is to bring out the flavor of food. You don’t know what you are missing, especially with all the dismembered gifts from God.

Maybe one needs all that salt to bring out that flavor if one is on the typical SAD.

Do you put dressing on your salad? I always order mine with nothing on it because I want to and do taste all the vegetables in the salad. Why do people need dressings on salads?

Vinny

For the same reason I wear clothes.

[Pointedstick]

Subway is fast food that pretends not to be, but it still is. I acknowledge that it's is a guilty pleasure.

[vnatale]

I guess I'll have to try a damn Subway again. I'm like Cortopassi in that I haven't been to one in about ten years. But that's because the sandwiches were bad the last ten times or so that I went. I felt like a kid who keeps burning themselves on a hot stove.

But, seriously, it pains me to see this forum torn apart by Subway.

LOL, but see you made an irrefutable point, with which Corto and I agree, yet you will never convince the people who think Subway is good eatin' that they are wrong. Just like the political discussions here.

To be clear....the only thing I've been maintaining is that all around for what I order (and what I order ONLY...not passing judgment on every other item that I'd never order)....it represents great value to me in terms of what I get, what I pay, and how much time I have to wait to get served my food. Plus, the one I go to just go renovated. I used the bathroom for the first time ever in any Subway and it was absolutely spotless in every way.

Vinny

[vnatale]

I guess I'll have to try a damn Subway again. I'm like Cortopassi in that I haven't been to one in about ten years. But that's because the sandwiches were bad the last ten times or so that I went. I felt like a kid who keeps burning themselves on a hot stove.

But, seriously, it pains me to see this forum torn apart by Subway.

LOL, but see you made an irrefutable point, with which Corto and I agree, yet you will never convince the people who think Subway is good eatin' that they are wrong. Just like the political discussions here.

To be clear....the only thing I've been maintaining is that all around for what I order (and what I order ONLY...not passing judgment on every other item that I'd never order)....it represents great value to me in terms of what I get, what I pay, and how much time I have to wait to get served my food. Plus, the one I go to just go renovated. I used the bathroom for the first time ever in any Subway and it was absolutely spotless in every way.

Vinny

While all of this may be true (in your opinion) did it occur to you that maybe there is a superior sandwich at another 'restaurant' that is just as good a value and prepared just as quickly?

Please tell me which exist in my locality that is convenient to me.....on my way home from my infrequent food shopping trip....and I will gladly go to it.

Vinny

[vnatale]

While all of this may be true (in your opinion) did it occur to you that maybe there is a superior sandwich at another 'restaurant' that is just as good a value and prepared just as quickly?

Here is a Chicago food / restaurant story for you....

In July 1981 a friend and I were on a bus tour of the United States.

On July 3, 1981 we reached Chicago. As soon as our bags arrived in our hotel room (none of these rooms were even close to being bottom of the barrel hotels. Actually much better than what I needed and what I would have chosen if it was not part of the package price and I had to pay for the rooms) we left to hit the streets to find somewhere to eat.

I imagine this would have been somewhere in the 5 PM to 7 PM time period.

Our mutual expectation was that we'd find some place in the next five to ten minute time period and that we'd be able to experience something different than we'd experienced all our lives, him having live in Rhode Island all his life and me having lived either there or Western Massachusetts.

We kept walking and walking and walking. Like forever! We could not find any place to eat in an hour of walking around the streets of Chicago! Again I described the room above as I way of saying that we not even close to staying in a slum area of Chicago.

I think we finally found a Chinese restaurant to eat which was decidedly NOT a new experience for either of us.


The next night though we did have a unique Chicago experience. Or, it could have been that same night. I forget now.

We were trying to locate somewhere. We saw a Chicago policeman across the street from us.

My friend beckoned with his right hand for that Chicago policeman to come to us.

Wow!!! He let us know in no uncertain terms that there was no way mere mortals such as ourselves should ever expect such a response from a god like him! I was actually just an observer to this. But never before or since have I ever encountered such pure police arrogance.

I am sure, though, that it made me have flashbacks to the famed Chicago "police riots" during the 1968 Democratic convention. This policeman right in front of me seemed to represent the type who would have gleefully taken part in that particular "police riot".


One more walking around story from that trip.

We hit Los Angeles. As part of tour package price there were many the things that were paid for. One of them was getting on the bus for a trip Hollywood. I proposed to my friend that, instead of doing that, that we spend that time walking around Los Angeles to see the "nice" parts of Los Angeles.

He agreed and that is what we did.

However, we must have walked around three hours, maybe as many five hours, around Los Angeles and we were unable to find ONE "nice" part of Los Angeles. That led me to conclude that there were no "nice" parts of Los Angeles. I think during all that walking around I only saw one library.

I told my friend I'd made the wrong choice. We should have gone to Hollywood!

Vinny

[vnatale]

Without knowing where you stayed in Chicago, I can't comment other than to say that there are hundreds of great restaurants all over the city and suburbs, and I find it hard to believe that a 5 minute walk in any direction wouldn't land you at several. Plus, there is literally a Starbucks and Subway on every other block.

I have no idea either where we stayed. Remember, though, that this was nearly 40 years ago.

Starbucks was 30 years from coming into being? I don't even thing Subway had yet been invented.

We were totally shocked we were in Chicago and had to walk for an hour somewhere. Also, in all these cites we stayed in, we'd walk out of the hotel and have absolutely no idea where anything was.

I forget to mention that the next day was obviously July 4th, which then put us in the middle of The Taste of Chicago. In contrast to our prior night's experience, there were a great number of food booths available to eat from during that day.

Can you think back that far to when you you were about 20 years old and how all parts of Chicago looked like then?

I lived near Brown University in Providence for a few year in the early 70s. I went back to the area about five years ago and I was totally lost. It took a lot of driving for me to finally find Brown University! The amount of buildup that had had since happened in the area, all these things that had not existed way back then was simply astounding. It was no longer this simple area with a college in the midst of it. Instead, it was commercial place of commercial place of all types that were now all over the place that simply did not exist those years I lived in the same area.

Vinny

[doodle]

Back to the topic of artificial complexity...

Shaving. Been using this same razor now for going on 15 years.....same kind my grandpa probably used. For 20 bucks I can get enough blades to last me a couple years. Works great, will last me the rest of my life. The tech involved in shaving is ridiculous.

61QJZm6pSwL._SL1500_.jpg (71.38 KiB) Viewed 4154 times

[doodle]

Oh and on the subject of subway...Its been years since I ate there but last time I don't remember coming away convinced that their chicken was actually chicken. It was kind of mysterious looking

[Pointedstick]

I've been shaving and cutting my own hair for the past, I think 7? years with a cheap electric trimmer. Works great.

[doodle]

I've been shaving and cutting my own hair for the past, I think 7? years with a cheap electric trimmer. Works great.

Same. Buzzed my head since college. Girlfriend recently started cutting my hair cause was tired of looking at my shorn head.

[doodle]

Shoes are another bit of artificial complexity...all the gels and insoles and air pumps and shit. Turns out trying to improve or mess with natural biomechanics and design of foot is bad idea (short of correcting severe deformity)

[Pointedstick]

Shoes are another bit of artificial complexity...all the gels and insoles and air pumps and shit. Turns out trying to improve or mess with natural biomechanics and design of foot is bad idea (short of correcting severe deformity)

Oh yeah who needs 'em?! What a bunch of pointless complication! Speaking of which, let me know your secret to going barefoot in the snow in winter or walking on 130F concrete in the summer

[doodle]

I'm not referring to cladding the foot...that is unavoidable in many situations although best to leave children out of shoes as much as possible...It's the additional ridiculous tech that has been introduced into that simple process..the carbon fiber honeycomb gel weave air cushioned blah blah blah...

Or, what's worse maybe.. the artificial complexity introduced by fashion. Trying to walk around on 6 inch long ice picks for heels

[Pointedstick]

Oh so like Roman caligae? Those were pretty rad.



Of course they only lasted for about 3 months on average. And as much as they resisted, it the Romans needed to adopt boots and trousers when they went campaigning in places where it actually got cold.

[doodle]

Oh so like Roman caligae? Those were pretty rad.



Of course they only lasted for about 3 months on average. And as much as they resisted, it the Romans needed to adopt boots and trousers when they went campaigning in places where it actually got cold.

Maybe if you are hiking 40 miles everyday.
Those look like they'd last a bit longer than that. Especially sewn to a vibram sole.

I have to head out to the mountains so will have to pick this up later but I'm not disagreeing with you. Today's ski boots and bindings are much better than strapping yourself to wooden boards with flimsy leather straps. Different situations require different tools. I'm saying that a lot of the tech that is introduced into modern athletic shoes especially impedes with natural biomechanics of foot, proprioception, and ultimately creates long term dysfunction by weakening the natural supportive arch of foot and associated ligaments and muscles. If you don't have anything wrong with feet I'd say the simpler the shoe the better..oh, .and one that doesn't have heel elevation

[Pointedstick]

Sure, so don't buy modern athletic shoes.

[Mountaineer]

I've been shaving and cutting my own hair for the past, I think 7? years with a cheap electric trimmer. Works great.

Same. Buzzed my head since college. Girlfriend recently started cutting my hair cause was tired of looking at my shorn head.

No deodorant and a shitty haircut? The women you two hang out with must not be very picky.

But he might have free use of a bidet .... who knows? Now, if he changes his moniker to doobidet we might get a clue that most will figure out.

[vnatale]

Back to the topic of artificial complexity...

Shaving. Been using this same razor now for going on 15 years.....same kind my grandpa probably used. For 20 bucks I can get enough blades to last me a couple years. Works great, will last me the rest of my life. The tech involved in shaving is ridiculous.

61QJZm6pSwL._SL1500_.jpg

When I moved into a house with other people in 1974 there was an electric razor in the medicine cabinet. When I left that house in 1978 it was still there so I claimed it. That is all I've been using to shave (except for one year) since then. Continues to work fine. Of course, with a beard I am only using it on my upper cheeks and the back of my neck.

That one year I was wearing a suit every day and shaving every day at the bottom of my front neck. All manual blades always caused too much pulling, pain, and blood. I think I'm done with them for the rest of my life. Blades never seemed to last long with my facial hair, quickly dulling and causing too much pain.

Vinny

[vnatale]

Sure, so don't buy modern athletic shoes.

However, if you ever experience knee pain buying the best running shoes possible is a way of pampering those knees.

Vinny

[vnatale]

I've been shaving and cutting my own hair for the past, I think 7? years with a cheap electric trimmer. Works great.

Same. Buzzed my head since college. Girlfriend recently started cutting my hair cause was tired of looking at my shorn head.

No deodorant and a shitty haircut? The women you two hang out with must not be very picky.

Or, more interested in the person rather than the image.

Vinny