Optimal Diet

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Benko
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Re: Optimal Diet

Post by Benko » Wed Mar 24, 2021 5:18 pm

Kriegsspiel,

Eat less, exercise more.

In theory, theory and practice are the same. In practice, they are not. I think both 1. It is not that simple and 2. doing it in practice is very difficult (notice, in your post you locked someone in a room).

Example: fixed hypocaloric diets: a. result in body adaptations making continued weight loss more difficult and b. are unpleasant and difficult to follow long term.

Instead of cutting calories by a fixed amount each day e.g. fast twice a week e.g. don't eat anything every Monday and Thursday. This gives one a weekly caloric deficit, makes it difficult for the body to "adapt", and is much easier to follow long term.
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Kriegsspiel
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Re: Optimal Diet

Post by Kriegsspiel » Wed Mar 24, 2021 5:33 pm

Benko wrote:
Wed Mar 24, 2021 5:18 pm
Kriegsspiel,

Eat less, exercise more.

In theory, theory and practice are the same. In practice, they are not. I think both 1. It is not that simple and 2. doing it in practice is very difficult (notice, in your post you locked someone in a room).

Example: fixed hypocaloric diets: a. result in body adaptations making continued weight loss more difficult and b. are unpleasant and difficult to follow long term.

Instead of cutting calories by a fixed amount each day e.g. fast twice a week e.g. don't eat anything every Monday and Thursday. This gives one a weekly caloric deficit, makes it difficult for the body to "adapt", and is much easier to follow long term.
I think you guys are reading something into my words that I'm not saying. I'm not saying it's best to cut calories by a fixed amount each day. Fasting twice a week results in eating less over the course of the week. Any method of eating less that works for you is fair game.
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Mark Leavy
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Re: Optimal Diet

Post by Mark Leavy » Wed Mar 24, 2021 8:43 pm

There is clearly too much angst going on here. Let me resolve it all. Because I'm usually (always) right.

If you don't like what you see in the mirror, then :

1) Drink all of the coffee you can drink in the morning.
2) Do plenty of pushups and pullups. Buy a set of ranger beads and do 30 counts every day. However you can. Then walk 5 miles.
3) Sometime during the afternoon have a big ol' cup of collagen broth and a few eggs boiled or cooked in butter.
4) Go out and have some sashimi or a burger patty and all of the wine and shots you want and talk up the locals.

Repeat until you look super awesome.

You can thank me later.

If you already look super awesome, have some prime rib and a cheesecake and make some new friends.
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Re: Optimal Diet

Post by sophie » Thu Mar 25, 2021 8:49 am

Great advice Mark!!!!

Don't forget to add grassfed butter and coconut oil to the coffee. And enjoy bacon and eggs anytime you want in addition.

Pushups are optional, and also maybe good to lay off the exercise while your body is retraining to metabolize fat. It takes a while before you get over the "keto flu". It was 2-3 weeks for me, but obviously your timing will vary.

If you do feel crappy during the transition, there are magical powders you can buy for ridiculous amounts of money on Amazon. If you prefer to keep your money, buy Morton's lite salt (iodized) and add as much as you can tolerate to a sugar-free flavored drink of choice. Add a magnesium supplement while you're at it.
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Re: Optimal Diet

Post by Cortopassi » Thu Mar 25, 2021 9:02 am

Benko, thanks for the Jason Fung info. I am reading the Obesity Code.

I like that it is written in layman's language and doesn't go off into the weeds on scientific explanations.

The issue, of course, is that the "idea" of eat less move more sounds intuitively correct on the surface, and we have been screwed by many decades of doctors who had an agenda against fat in the diet.

Just like when they would show (do they still?) artery clogging saturated fat, congealed in a drain pipe and make an analogy to it doing the same in human arteries. Makes sense, on the surface.

FYI, I have been hard core low carb, again.... for 3 days.... as is obvious, I always fall off. Not because I am hungry, I have never been one to get hungry in my life. Just mindless snacking.

Anyway, all joints within 48 hours feel excellent. That alone should be enough to keep me on it!
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Re: Optimal Diet

Post by doodle » Thu Mar 25, 2021 9:15 am

I'm not going to argue that keto doesn't work, but somehow my results are just fine eating an enormous amount of carbs and probably 4 or 5 times the RDA of sugar lately. Granted, I do get more physical activity than most but even when I didn't I did just fine. If I cut back the sugar and junk food and just ate fruits, vegetables, meat and some bread my bodyfat would drop below 10% and the veins in my arm would start looking gross. It's almost like I was designed to run off junk food. It's hard for me to imagine that a man eating less than 3000 calories a day and getting a decent amount of exercise wouldn't lose weight on practically any reasonable diet.
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Re: Optimal Diet

Post by Kbg » Thu Mar 25, 2021 9:25 am

Any good short reads on how to do this? 3-5 pages max?
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Re: Optimal Diet

Post by doodle » Thu Mar 25, 2021 9:27 am



FYI, I have been hard core low carb, again.... for 3 days.... as is obvious, I always fall off. Not because I am hungry, I have never been one to get hungry in my life. Just mindless snacking.

Anyway, all joints within 48 hours feel excellent. That alone should be enough to keep me on it!

Ironically, one hears the same type of thing initially from people who switch to vegan diets.

Why does everything have to be so extreme, though?

Genetically I'm solidly northern european...my ancestors all would have eaten a lot meat, dairy, and fat. In the past when I have attempted veganism I have found that after about a month or two I start craving meat...not the taste necesarilly, but from a nutritional standpoint. When reintroducing it into my diet (usually a 6 ounces or less per day) I immediately feel better again.

However, I feel completely fine eating fruits, vegetables, pasta, bread, etc. I can polish off a five pound pan of tiramisu and still feel ok to workout or whatever. If carbs are the devil, then why don't they seem to be having any negative effect on me?
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Re: Optimal Diet

Post by Cortopassi » Thu Mar 25, 2021 10:14 am

doodle wrote:
Thu Mar 25, 2021 9:15 am
I'm not going to argue that keto doesn't work, but somehow my results are just fine eating an enormous amount of carbs and probably 4 or 5 times the RDA of sugar lately. Granted, I do get more physical activity than most but even when I didn't I did just fine. If I cut back the sugar and junk food and just ate fruits, vegetables, meat and some bread my bodyfat would drop below 10% and the veins in my arm would start looking gross. It's almost like I was designed to run off junk food. It's hard for me to imagine that a man eating less than 3000 calories a day and getting a decent amount of exercise wouldn't lose weight on practically any reasonable diet.
One thing you get from Fung's book, and others -- everybody is different, and most is genetic. My wife, Chinese heritage, can probably eat 400 grams of carbs a day and not gain weight, for example. She is like her dad. Her mother, alternatively, has a big issue with carbs. My ancestry is Italian -- most men were thin, most women were chunky in my family, and I am somewhere in between. I certainly can eat carbs and stay within a fine weight range, but the physical benefits of dropping them are pretty quick and obvious, for me.

It's not extreme to me, IF the temptation is not there. I do not crave things, and I do not get hungry. If there's a bag of BBQ chips in the cabinet, well, that's where it takes some effort!

It's society/family that is more difficult. Fung has more good analogies, like if someone wants to stop smoking or stop drinking alcohol, family and friends would easily support that, throw out all cigs and bottles, etc.

But change that to wanting to not eat carbs -- cake, flour, sugar, sweets, chips, etc, and people are much less likely to so easily support it. Instead, you'll go to a birthday party and get comments like, "c'mon, at least have a small piece of cake -- I baked it!" Whereas you'd never hear a similar "c'mon, just one glass of wine" said to an alcoholic at the same party.
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Re: Optimal Diet

Post by glennds » Thu Mar 25, 2021 11:14 am

Cortopassi wrote:
Thu Mar 25, 2021 10:14 am
doodle wrote:
Thu Mar 25, 2021 9:15 am
I'm not going to argue that keto doesn't work, but somehow my results are just fine eating an enormous amount of carbs and probably 4 or 5 times the RDA of sugar lately. Granted, I do get more physical activity than most but even when I didn't I did just fine. If I cut back the sugar and junk food and just ate fruits, vegetables, meat and some bread my bodyfat would drop below 10% and the veins in my arm would start looking gross. It's almost like I was designed to run off junk food. It's hard for me to imagine that a man eating less than 3000 calories a day and getting a decent amount of exercise wouldn't lose weight on practically any reasonable diet.
One thing you get from Fung's book, and others -- everybody is different, and most is genetic. My wife, Chinese heritage, can probably eat 400 grams of carbs a day and not gain weight, for example. She is like her dad. Her mother, alternatively, has a big issue with carbs. My ancestry is Italian -- most men were thin, most women were chunky in my family, and I am somewhere in between. I certainly can eat carbs and stay within a fine weight range, but the physical benefits of dropping them are pretty quick and obvious, for me.

I think the same might go for grains. The Paleo diet eschews them, and I get the feeling they are no problem for some, and sub-optimal for others. To further complicate it, sometimes it seems things change over the course of our lives, usually not for the better. I don't tolerate red wine as well as I did at one time.
One thing everyone seems to agree on is avoiding or limiting sugar. I've never seen a diet or eating plan that encouraged consuming sugar for optimal health.
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Re: Optimal Diet

Post by sophie » Thu Mar 25, 2021 1:14 pm

Corto, my solution has been to find a new food addiction. I'm pretty weak-willed too when it comes to this stuff.

My latest: dark chocolate with no sugar, dipped into peanut butter. YUM and satisfying. I had this for lunch today because I just needed something nice to get me through this endless grant review panel I'm on. You do have to watch the amount of peanut butter but it doesn't take much. Almond butter works too.

I had originally tried making fat bombs and homemade flaxseed meal crackers, but that's way too much trouble. Cheese is always a good standby but it gets old after a while.

When I can get to Trader Joe's, I buy as many bags of "Keto Fudge Bites" as I can without looking too ridiculous. Those are seriously yummy and only $5 per bag. Otherwise, premade keto snacks are ridiculously expensive and I refuse to buy them.
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Re: Optimal Diet

Post by Cortopassi » Thu Mar 25, 2021 1:35 pm

sophie wrote:
Thu Mar 25, 2021 1:14 pm
Corto, my solution has been to find a new food addiction. I'm pretty weak-willed too when it comes to this stuff.

My latest: dark chocolate with no sugar, dipped into peanut butter. YUM and satisfying. I had this for lunch today because I just needed something nice to get me through this endless grant review panel I'm on. You do have to watch the amount of peanut butter but it doesn't take much. Almond butter works too.

I had originally tried making fat bombs and homemade flaxseed meal crackers, but that's way too much trouble. Cheese is always a good standby but it gets old after a while.

When I can get to Trader Joe's, I buy as many bags of "Keto Fudge Bites" as I can without looking too ridiculous. Those are seriously yummy and only $5 per bag. Otherwise, premade keto snacks are ridiculously expensive and I refuse to buy them.
PB, unfortunately, is pretty much the only food that I could go nuts on (pun), like Vinny does daily!

I have searched out and compared many brands. Luckily, the one I liked best changed recently and doesn't taste the same!

I do better when I take small doses. And I've always been a fan of creamy, but my daughter recently wanted chunky, and the good thing about that is it forces you to chew, so I don't eat it as fast.

There are so many varieties of Keto this and that at Costco now, but I stay away, because I could probably convince myself, hey, it's Keto! And overeat the stuff. Fine, maybe I'll have a lower insulin response but it would still be a boatload of calories.

My savior, most of the time is sugar free Jello gelatin. It satisfies just enough, esp. at night.
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Re: Optimal Diet

Post by vnatale » Thu Mar 25, 2021 6:26 pm

sophie wrote:
Thu Mar 25, 2021 1:14 pm

Corto, my solution has been to find a new food addiction. I'm pretty weak-willed too when it comes to this stuff.

My latest: dark chocolate with no sugar, dipped into peanut butter. YUM and satisfying. I had this for lunch today because I just needed something nice to get me through this endless grant review panel I'm on. You do have to watch the amount of peanut butter but it doesn't take much. Almond butter works too.

I had originally tried making fat bombs and homemade flaxseed meal crackers, but that's way too much trouble. Cheese is always a good standby but it gets old after a while.

When I can get to Trader Joe's, I buy as many bags of "Keto Fudge Bites" as I can without looking too ridiculous. Those are seriously yummy and only $5 per bag. Otherwise, premade keto snacks are ridiculously expensive and I refuse to buy them.


For a quick easy thing to make and which can stave off hunger is something similar...Pure cocoa powder (no sugar), no sugar peanut butter, raisins, water. Mix well.
Above provided by: Vinny, who always says: "I only regret that I have but one lap to give to my cats."
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Re: Optimal Diet

Post by Cortopassi » Thu Mar 25, 2021 7:14 pm

Vinny,

Sounds good. But you certainly know your first two no sugar items are destroyed by raisin sugar bombs?!
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Re: Optimal Diet

Post by pugchief » Thu Mar 25, 2021 7:32 pm

sophie wrote:
Thu Mar 25, 2021 8:49 am

Don't forget to add grassfed butter and coconut oil to the coffee.

To what purpose? If you are trying to lose weight, why add extra calories to coffee which is already calorie free?
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Re: Optimal Diet

Post by Kriegsspiel » Thu Mar 25, 2021 7:36 pm

pugchief wrote:
Thu Mar 25, 2021 7:32 pm
sophie wrote:
Thu Mar 25, 2021 8:49 am

Don't forget to add grassfed butter and coconut oil to the coffee.

To what purpose? If you are trying to lose weight, why add extra calories to coffee which is already calorie free?
Personally, I mix protein powder & instant coffee in warm (but not hot) water in the morning. Why: it tastes good, protein is satiating, and you need protein to keep your muscles from falling off when you're leaning up.
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Re: Optimal Diet

Post by Smith1776 » Thu Mar 25, 2021 7:40 pm

I just ate 2 momma burgers from A&W... optimal diet indeed! ;D
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Re: Optimal Diet

Post by vnatale » Thu Mar 25, 2021 7:48 pm

Cortopassi wrote:
Thu Mar 25, 2021 7:14 pm

Vinny,

Sounds good. But you certainly know your first two no sugar items are destroyed by raisin sugar bombs?!


It is in the form of a natural sugar based in real food with all the benefits from a natural food. Pure sugar is just empty calories. And, Pugchief can tell us whether or not he believes eating sugar laden products promotes teeth decay.

Plus avoiding any foods that list sugar (or high fructose corn syrup or any other similar type sugar) leads to eliminating a lot of nutritionally inferior foods. Getting a "sugar" in the form of a pure food is obeying the principle of eating as much pure food as possible without all the additives put in so many foods.
Last edited by vnatale on Thu Mar 25, 2021 7:58 pm, edited 2 times in total.
Above provided by: Vinny, who always says: "I only regret that I have but one lap to give to my cats."
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Re: Optimal Diet

Post by pugchief » Thu Mar 25, 2021 7:56 pm

Kriegsspiel wrote:
Thu Mar 25, 2021 7:36 pm
pugchief wrote:
Thu Mar 25, 2021 7:32 pm
sophie wrote:
Thu Mar 25, 2021 8:49 am

Don't forget to add grassfed butter and coconut oil to the coffee.

To what purpose? If you are trying to lose weight, why add extra calories to coffee which is already calorie free?
Personally, I mix protein powder & instant coffee in warm (but not hot) water in the morning. Why: it tastes good, protein is satiating, and you need protein to keep your muscles from falling off when you're leaning up.
Okay, but you were going to snarf that protein powder anyway. I put grass-fed organic collagen protein in my metamucil every morning. But I still drink my coffee black without butter or coconut oil (black coffee matters!).
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Re: Optimal Diet

Post by Mark Leavy » Thu Mar 25, 2021 9:39 pm

Kbg wrote:
Thu Mar 25, 2021 9:25 am
Any good short reads on how to do this? 3-5 pages max?
viewtopic.php?f=9&t=11669&start=50#p225694
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Re: Optimal Diet

Post by Benko » Thu Mar 25, 2021 10:07 pm

Cortopassi wrote:
Thu Mar 25, 2021 10:14 am
One thing you get from Fung's book, and others -- everybody is different
This can't be stressed enough. Interestingly at the moment both plant based diets (some ultra low fat and some not) and keto are huge trends.

I've always known and been told (various typing systems) that I do better eating meat and lower carb, but I've gotten sucked into e.g. the plant based diet. Each time I wind up with high triglycerides. So I finally settled on:

High fat: nuts, extra virgin olive oil, avocados, fatty fish
75-100g carbs a day e.g. berries, cherries
3 ounces of meat twice a day (including beef, chicken, pork)
Try and eat e.g. leafy greens, broccoli/cauliflower, and other veggies as much as possible.

I doubt conventional wisdom about saturated fat is correct, but hedge my bet.
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Re: Optimal Diet

Post by whatchamacallit » Thu Mar 25, 2021 10:08 pm

Mark Leavy wrote:
Thu Mar 25, 2021 9:39 pm
Kbg wrote:
Thu Mar 25, 2021 9:25 am
Any good short reads on how to do this? 3-5 pages max?
viewtopic.php?f=9&t=11669&start=50#p225694
How do you get your vitamin c?
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Re: Optimal Diet

Post by Mark Leavy » Thu Mar 25, 2021 10:11 pm

whatchamacallit wrote:
Thu Mar 25, 2021 10:08 pm
Mark Leavy wrote:
Thu Mar 25, 2021 9:39 pm
Kbg wrote:
Thu Mar 25, 2021 9:25 am
Any good short reads on how to do this? 3-5 pages max?
viewtopic.php?f=9&t=11669&start=50#p225694
How do you get your vitamin c?
Vitamin C is necessary to synthesize collagen. Scurvy is a collagen deficiency disease. I eat a lot of collagen.
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Re: Optimal Diet

Post by whatchamacallit » Thu Mar 25, 2021 11:07 pm

Mark Leavy wrote:
Thu Mar 25, 2021 10:11 pm
whatchamacallit wrote:
Thu Mar 25, 2021 10:08 pm
Mark Leavy wrote:
Thu Mar 25, 2021 9:39 pm
Kbg wrote:
Thu Mar 25, 2021 9:25 am
Any good short reads on how to do this? 3-5 pages max?
viewtopic.php?f=9&t=11669&start=50#p225694
How do you get your vitamin c?
Vitamin C is necessary to synthesize collagen. Scurvy is a collagen deficiency disease. I eat a lot of collagen.
So you use a collagen powder that includes vitamin c supplement?

I was wondering if you ate some fruits for vitamin c.
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Re: Optimal Diet

Post by Mark Leavy » Thu Mar 25, 2021 11:20 pm

whatchamacallit wrote:
Thu Mar 25, 2021 11:07 pm

So you use a collagen powder that includes vitamin c supplement?

I was wondering if you ate some fruits for vitamin c.
No, I just eat a lot of collagen. It turns out that despite what they teach you in high school, it isn't completely broken down and re-synthesized. The stuff in the <5000 Dalton range ends up migrating directly to your joints and gums as is. No need for Vitamin C if you get the stuff directly. And, for some reason that we haven't yet figured out, us older folks can't really synthesize it like we used to no matter how much C we have. Better to just eat collagen.
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