Optimal Diet

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jalanlong
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Optimal Diet

Post by jalanlong » Thu Dec 17, 2020 1:22 pm

In the last 10-20 years we have gone thru a lot of popular diets: Paleo, Vegan, South Beach, Atkins, Mediterranean etc. What are your opinions on the optimal human diet for health? Or do you think it varies from individual to individual?

I know a lot of people on this board tend to do keto. However when i try it, I feel terrible eating that much fat and limited carbs. When I eat carbs I feel better but I overeat and gain weight. I took a DNA test which says i should be low fat high carb for whatever those tests are worth.

I feel like after spending a year reading about nutrition that I come away even more confused!
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Re: Optimal Diet

Post by Cortopassi » Thu Dec 17, 2020 2:11 pm

I have been 75% Keto for the past 4 months. This is the longest I have been able to do it, and it has not bothered me. I went from a consistent 197-199 range to a 189-191 range. Joints are excellent, clothes fit great. Big motivations!

How am I doing it this time? Because I am not strict. I allow myself stuff like candy and chips. But the big change is the amount. I just eat less. It hasn't been hard for me. Instead of a bag of M&Ms, I will eat 5-10, slowly, and I am satisfied. Instead of a couple Tbsp of peanut butter, more like a teaspoon, and I just eat it slower.

And I snack very, very little after dinner. That used to be hard, not anymore.
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Re: Optimal Diet

Post by l82start » Thu Dec 17, 2020 2:50 pm

jalanlong wrote:
Thu Dec 17, 2020 1:22 pm
In the last 10-20 years we have gone thru a lot of popular diets: Paleo, Vegan, South Beach, Atkins, Mediterranean etc. What are your opinions on the optimal human diet for health? Or do you think it varies from individual to individual?

I know a lot of people on this board tend to do keto. However when i try it, I feel terrible eating that much fat and limited carbs. When I eat carbs I feel better but I overeat and gain weight. I took a DNA test which says i should be low fat high carb for whatever those tests are worth.

I feel like after spending a year reading about nutrition that I come away even more confused!
have you ever achieved true keto? there is some advantage for getting over the transition and past the feeling terrible stage quickly, by going full keto (almost zero carbs) it helps get your body adjust and puts you in a different burning fat metabolism, that said its not necessarily for everyone..
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Re: Optimal Diet

Post by jalanlong » Thu Dec 17, 2020 2:59 pm

l82start wrote:
Thu Dec 17, 2020 2:50 pm
jalanlong wrote:
Thu Dec 17, 2020 1:22 pm
In the last 10-20 years we have gone thru a lot of popular diets: Paleo, Vegan, South Beach, Atkins, Mediterranean etc. What are your opinions on the optimal human diet for health? Or do you think it varies from individual to individual?

I know a lot of people on this board tend to do keto. However when i try it, I feel terrible eating that much fat and limited carbs. When I eat carbs I feel better but I overeat and gain weight. I took a DNA test which says i should be low fat high carb for whatever those tests are worth.

I feel like after spending a year reading about nutrition that I come away even more confused!
have you ever achieved true keto? there is some advantage for getting over the transition and past the feeling terrible stage quickly, by going full keto (almost zero carbs) it helps get your body adjust and puts you in a different burning fat metabolism, that said its not necessarily for everyone..
I haven’t made it there yet. Eating only fat and protein makes me incredibly nauseous which makes it very difficult to last a day or two, much less the time it takes to convert to fat burning.
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Re: Optimal Diet

Post by Pointedstick » Thu Dec 17, 2020 3:22 pm

"Eat food. Mostly plants. Not too much."
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Re: Optimal Diet

Post by pmward » Thu Dec 17, 2020 3:34 pm

Honestly I've just learned to listen to my body as to what foods agree and don't agree. I find that for me, I do better on a higher carb lower fat diet. I'm also extremely active, 60-90 minutes of exercise minimum per day so the carbs are needed, lol. I very rarely eat processed foods. I eat lots of fresh fruits, vegetables, whole grains, nuts, legumes, eggs, and dairy on a daily basis. I don't eat meat daily anymore, but I do still eat meat maybe once every week or two. This is what works for me. I easily maintain about 9-10% body fat at 39 years old without ever feeling hungry, having to diet, count calories/macros, or any of that other blah stuff. I have no health issues, and my medical labs are always pristine every year. Don't overthink it!
Last edited by pmward on Thu Dec 17, 2020 3:41 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Optimal Diet

Post by pp4me » Thu Dec 17, 2020 3:40 pm

I did strict keto to get my weight down to a normal BMI. Now I would describe my diet as mostly low carb but I'm not against indulging in carbs once in a while or even daily as long it's not too much. I rarely eat anything containing sugar however. I'm pretty convinced that is the devil's food.

Interesting what you said about a DNA test telling you what kind of diet is best for you. I've read some stuff about eating right for your body type but I've never heard of a DNA test for this.
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Re: Optimal Diet

Post by Hal » Thu Dec 17, 2020 3:49 pm

For what its worth...

I went for a Japanese diet many years ago after noting how healthy my friends looked. Definitely helped.
Many years ago when living in a small rural town we had a western diet but everything was fresh. Grew our own vegetables/fruit, freshly slaughtered beef/lamb but no fish (no water nearby). Nearly everyone was slim.

Guessing processed food and commercially raised cattle etc the issue. Even back then the chook farmers wouldn't eat the chicken they raised for sale in Melbourne.
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Re: Optimal Diet

Post by SomeDude » Thu Dec 17, 2020 4:29 pm

Cortopassi wrote:
Thu Dec 17, 2020 2:11 pm
I have been 75% Keto for the past 4 months. This is the longest I have been able to do it, and it has not bothered me. I went from a consistent 197-199 range to a 189-191 range. Joints are excellent, clothes fit great. Big motivations!

How am I doing it this time? Because I am not strict. I allow myself stuff like candy and chips. But the big change is the amount. I just eat less. It hasn't been hard for me. Instead of a bag of M&Ms, I will eat 5-10, slowly, and I am satisfied. Instead of a couple Tbsp of peanut butter, more like a teaspoon, and I just eat it slower.

And I snack very, very little after dinner. That used to be hard, not anymore.
Very good results. Do you have a goal weight?

I have done very high-fat diets ala the Primal Blueprint which made me feel great. There were other benefits too, let's just call them a testosterone boost.

I've done all meat for about 2-3 weeks a couple years ago. I ate just burgers with cheese for lunch and a ribeye steak cooked in butter every night.

My energy dropped, I looked like ass, lost about 8 lbs in 3 weeks on it.

If I didn't have a wife and baby and busy worklife to content with, I'd go back to primal which is primarily animal fats and protein for about 90% of calories and veggies/berries for the other 10%, zero grains.
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Re: Optimal Diet

Post by boglerdude » Thu Dec 17, 2020 4:33 pm

> "Eat food. Mostly plants. Not too much."

I have a very small lunch and large dinner just before bed:

A protein core (re-fried, kidney, or garbanzo beans)
mix in a vegetable (carrots, spinach, broccoli, or red leaf lettuce)
whole grain/multigrain crackers crushed up for texture and fiber
A topping (guac, salsa, oil&vinegar dressing, soy sauce, or one of many other vegan sauces)
The science isnt settled but I take a multivitamin just in case.

Digests easily, cheap, no cooking aside from boiling veggies. Minimized carbs, animal products and fat. Diet is endlessly controversial because we get wired up to like the foods we were raised on and re-wiring is unpleasant. High fat/sugar/carb food makes me lethargic, after being on this diet ~10 years.
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Re: Optimal Diet

Post by Smith1776 » Thu Dec 17, 2020 4:49 pm

The conclusion that I have come to is that an optimal diet is different for each person. Sometimes WILDLY different. Even basic things like biasing towards vegetables are not a lead pipe cinch as being beneficial.

Experiment and find what works best for you.
"Talk is cheap. Show me the code." - Linus Torvalds
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Re: Optimal Diet

Post by Mountaineer » Thu Dec 17, 2020 4:53 pm

Smith1776 wrote:
Thu Dec 17, 2020 4:49 pm
The conclusion that I have come to is that an optimal diet is different for each person. Sometimes WILDLY different. Even basic things like biasing towards vegetables are not a lead pipe cinch as being beneficial.

Experiment and find what works best for you.
Agree 100%.
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Re: Optimal Diet

Post by vnatale » Thu Dec 17, 2020 6:47 pm

I've been a vegetarian since 1979. Vegan at home since 2015 (will eat cheese when I am out).

No sugar in any form since 1985 (except for when I'm eating out when it may be in the pizza crust or sauce).

The main downfall of my diet is that I don't like spending time food shopping or spending time in the kitchen preparing food. Therefore not a wide range of food and even days with no vegetable intake.

So far all I have eaten today (7;38 PM) is a large, large, large bowl of popcorn with nutritional yeast, two dates, and just finishing drinking four cups of tea.

After I finish catching up on forum posts I will force myself to finally finish some grand personal work I've been doing that time. By that time will be completely unmotivated to do any food preparation and will thus fall back on my standard of cinnamon, an apple, raisins, red grapes, orange, pineapple (since I have no ripe bananas) all mixed in with a half pound of peanut butter. It seems like it'd be much more accurate to describe myself as a fruitarian as opposed to a vegetarian.

If I'm still hungry later tonight I will eat some pistachio nuts plus a grapefruit.

in spite of that NOT optimal diet I'm seeming able to be fairly energetic for up to 20 hours a day if need be. All I've listed I'm eating is basically single ingredient foods as opposed to those "foods" that have a long list of ingredients.

Vinny
Above provided by: Vinny, who always says: "I only regret that I have but one lap to give to my cats."
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Re: Optimal Diet

Post by Cortopassi » Thu Dec 17, 2020 7:21 pm

SomeDude wrote:
Thu Dec 17, 2020 4:29 pm
Cortopassi wrote:
Thu Dec 17, 2020 2:11 pm
I have been 75% Keto for the past 4 months. This is the longest I have been able to do it, and it has not bothered me. I went from a consistent 197-199 range to a 189-191 range. Joints are excellent, clothes fit great. Big motivations!

How am I doing it this time? Because I am not strict. I allow myself stuff like candy and chips. But the big change is the amount. I just eat less. It hasn't been hard for me. Instead of a bag of M&Ms, I will eat 5-10, slowly, and I am satisfied. Instead of a couple Tbsp of peanut butter, more like a teaspoon, and I just eat it slower.

And I snack very, very little after dinner. That used to be hard, not anymore.
Very good results. Do you have a goal weight?

I have done very high-fat diets ala the Primal Blueprint which made me feel great. There were other benefits too, let's just call them a testosterone boost.

I've done all meat for about 2-3 weeks a couple years ago. I ate just burgers with cheese for lunch and a ribeye steak cooked in butter every night.

My energy dropped, I looked like ass, lost about 8 lbs in 3 weeks on it.

If I didn't have a wife and baby and busy worklife to content with, I'd go back to primal which is primarily animal fats and protein for about 90% of calories and veggies/berries for the other 10%, zero grains.
Mentally, I will always think I'm fat, because of my childhood. But I am happy at 190. I am 6'3"
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Re: Optimal Diet

Post by Smith1776 » Thu Dec 17, 2020 7:30 pm

I'll put forth my current diet as per my trainer:
  • 3 portions of carbs per day (1 portion is fist size)
  • 3 portions of protein per day (1 portion is the size of the palm)
  • 3 portions of fruits/veggies per day (1 portion is fist sized)
  • 2 portions of fats/oils per day (1 portion is the size of the thumb)
Typical foods to fill out the regimen include rice, eggs, fish, raw salads, apples, bananas, and chicken.
"Talk is cheap. Show me the code." - Linus Torvalds
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Re: Optimal Diet

Post by SomeDude » Thu Dec 17, 2020 7:41 pm

Cortopassi wrote:
Thu Dec 17, 2020 7:21 pm
Mentally, I will always think I'm fat, because of my childhood. But I am happy at 190. I am 6'3"
I was 125 lbs at 5'11 out of basic training, having been 135 and skinny my whole life. My wife constantly compliments my arms and chest but i still see myself as skinny
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Re: Optimal Diet

Post by Cortopassi » Thu Dec 17, 2020 9:32 pm

SomeDude wrote:
Thu Dec 17, 2020 7:41 pm
Cortopassi wrote:
Thu Dec 17, 2020 7:21 pm
Mentally, I will always think I'm fat, because of my childhood. But I am happy at 190. I am 6'3"
I was 125 lbs at 5'11 out of basic training, having been 135 and skinny my whole life. My wife constantly compliments my arms and chest but i still see myself as skinny
You are skinny, compared to most Americans, no two ways about it!
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Re: Optimal Diet

Post by vnatale » Thu Dec 17, 2020 9:55 pm

Cortopassi wrote:
Thu Dec 17, 2020 9:32 pm
SomeDude wrote:
Thu Dec 17, 2020 7:41 pm
Cortopassi wrote:
Thu Dec 17, 2020 7:21 pm
Mentally, I will always think I'm fat, because of my childhood. But I am happy at 190. I am 6'3"
I was 125 lbs at 5'11 out of basic training, having been 135 and skinny my whole life. My wife constantly compliments my arms and chest but i still see myself as skinny
You are skinny, compared to most Americans, no two ways about it!
Definitely! My BMI standards that is just above being underweight. Rare to see many Americans looking like that.

I think it was around 2000. I had a co-worker who was from the country of Columbian, South American. He was our company's representative there.

One night he was headed to the airport to go home. I asked him if he wanted to accompany me to hear a music event that night, which was on his way to the airport. He said Yes. While we were together I asked him if he had in his mind what the stereotype American looked like. He totally surprised me with his answers.

The first was blue eyes and blonde hair. That had never been my conception in my mind since I grew up in a Little Italy section of Rhode Island where just about everyone had dark hair and brown eyes. I knew one Italian with blonde hair and blue eyes.

The second was how obese Americans were. Come to think about it this was an outdoor music event with a lot of outdoor food vendors.

Could not deny that observation he made. Over the next 20 years since then that problem has only worsened. Last night I further read that not only are 2/3's of American overweight, 1/3 of them are obese.

Vinny
Above provided by: Vinny, who always says: "I only regret that I have but one lap to give to my cats."
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Re: Optimal Diet

Post by l82start » Fri Dec 18, 2020 9:17 am

5.9 max weight 193 did keto dropped into the 170s reset metabolism and stabilized at that weight for a few + months.
repeated and stabilized at 167 for a few + months.
repeated and stabilized at 150s for a few +months.
repeated and stabilized at 147 for a few + months.
current weight unknown i no longer have a scale... estimated at 130+ eating low carb (near keto) low calorie, now about 1/4 inch of belly fat away from seeing abs for 1 last time before i get to old to care anymore...

possible future goal of building muscle and getting up to to lean/strong 140s...

edit to add - had fast metabolism stayed at 130 - 135 till marriage and middle age weight gain in early 40s
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Re: Optimal Diet

Post by pmward » Fri Dec 18, 2020 10:19 am

SomeDude wrote:
Thu Dec 17, 2020 7:41 pm
Cortopassi wrote:
Thu Dec 17, 2020 7:21 pm
Mentally, I will always think I'm fat, because of my childhood. But I am happy at 190. I am 6'3"
I was 125 lbs at 5'11 out of basic training, having been 135 and skinny my whole life. My wife constantly compliments my arms and chest but i still see myself as skinny
Fresh out of basic I was 5'9" 130. I've bulked up as much as 170 in recent years, but I didn't like it. It was just too much weight for my frame and I lost too much agility and endurance. I tend to hand out around 150 these days. I'm just as strong at 150 as I was at 170, but I'm a lot more agile and have a lot more endurance.
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Re: Optimal Diet

Post by doodle » Fri Dec 18, 2020 11:05 am

Having lived overseas for many years one of the things that always struck me first about coming back to the states was the sheer amount of flesh that people carried around. Even in northern europe where people tend to be larger they were still much less fleshy on average.

Our food is part of the problem but overall I think it's the very sedentary nature of our lives. Yesterday was pretty average for me...6 hours plowing snow (by hand shovel...I hate riding around in machines generally inhaling all the exhaust) , skiing two hours, hike with dog....sometimes I'll go to gym....not yesterday though. Overall though about 8 or 9 hours of movement a day and you can eat whatever you want.
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Re: Optimal Diet

Post by Cortopassi » Fri Dec 18, 2020 12:42 pm

I still think it is majorly due to what is going into our bodies vs. exercising. Something happened in the 70s. I think it is processed vegetable oils mainly soybean, that is a big contributor.

I cannot imagine people in the 60s exercising more than people do nowadays, yet, go back for fun and watch some videos of say, the Apollo crowds during launch. Nary a fat person. Watch a current Space X launch crowd. Nary a skinny person.

I cannot imagine people in the 60s were gung ho about exercising vs. now and that's the reason?
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Re: Optimal Diet

Post by pugchief » Fri Dec 18, 2020 12:52 pm

Cortopassi wrote:
Fri Dec 18, 2020 12:42 pm
I still think it is majorly due to what is going into our bodies vs. exercising. Something happened in the 70s. I think it is processed vegetable oils mainly soybean, that is a big contributor.

I cannot imagine people in the 60s exercising more than people do nowadays, yet, go back for fun and watch some videos of say, the Apollo crowds during launch. Nary a fat person. Watch a current Space X launch crowd. Nary a skinny person.

I cannot imagine people in the 60s were gung ho about exercising vs. now and that's the reason?
Not sure why you keep harping on soybean oil. It's undoubtedly all the processed food, refined carbs in particular. Also a greater shift to eating out, which has large portion sizes and tends to be high in sodium and calories.
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Re: Optimal Diet

Post by Cortopassi » Fri Dec 18, 2020 12:56 pm

pugchief wrote:
Fri Dec 18, 2020 12:52 pm
Cortopassi wrote:
Fri Dec 18, 2020 12:42 pm
I still think it is majorly due to what is going into our bodies vs. exercising. Something happened in the 70s. I think it is processed vegetable oils mainly soybean, that is a big contributor.

I cannot imagine people in the 60s exercising more than people do nowadays, yet, go back for fun and watch some videos of say, the Apollo crowds during launch. Nary a fat person. Watch a current Space X launch crowd. Nary a skinny person.

I cannot imagine people in the 60s were gung ho about exercising vs. now and that's the reason?
Not sure why you keep harping on soybean oil. It's undoubtedly all the processed food, refined carbs in particular. Also a greater shift to eating out, which has large portion sizes and tends to be high in sodium and calories.
I have SDS. :P And harping on it is harping on processed foods because it fills those types of foods.

https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2 ... 144640.htm
https://www.treehugger.com/cooking-oil- ... ar-4857173
https://www.eatthis.com/vegetable-oil-dangers/
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Re: Optimal Diet

Post by Cortopassi » Mon Mar 22, 2021 12:46 pm

Wanted to give a shout out to Gary Taubes, who has a new book "The Case for Keto"

Interesting so far, esp. since he continues to debunk calories in/ calories out/ exercise myths.

https://www.amazon.com/Case-Keto-Rethin ... FVYZ3586N3

An excellent quote:

Imagine you’re invited to a celebratory dinner. The chef’s talent is legendary, and the invitation says that this particular dinner is going to be a feast of monumental proportions. Bring your appetite, you’re told—come hungry. How would you do it?

You might try to eat less over the course of the day—maybe even skip lunch, or breakfast and lunch. You might go to the gym for a particularly vigorous workout, or go for a longer run or swim than usual, to work up an appetite. You might even decide to walk to the dinner, rather than drive, for the same reason.

Now let’s think about this for a moment. The instructions that we’re constantly being given to lose weight—eat less (decrease the calories we take in) and exercise more (increase the calories we expend)—are the very same things we’ll do if our purpose is to make ourselves hungry, to build up an appetite, to eat more. Now the existence of an obesity epidemic coincident with half a century of advice to eat less and exercise more begins to look less paradoxical.
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