Bitcoin - they coming for you
Posted: Wed Dec 16, 2020 8:17 am
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https://www.gyroscopicinvesting.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=11661
I have a feeling the average Bitcoin investor has no idea what they are involved in. I think where you do see big investors jumping in they realize this is a prime pump and dump opportunity. There is way too much woo surrounding Bitcoin for me to be comfortable with it.
Bitcoin is open source, you could personally clone it and launch a new version tomorrow. What you're missing is the value of network effect. The users add to the value, which brings in more users, etc. No different than this forum really. You wouldn't be here if there's weren't.
This must be a joke. The USD has massive laundering that exceeds the entire $500 billion market cap of bitcoin.Ad Orientem wrote: ↑Wed Dec 16, 2020 8:15 pm There have been multiple, and very credible reports, that Bitcoin has been used on a massive scale for money laundering by organized crime figures. And that there was a lot of price manipulation, again by gangsters, in BC's earlier big moves. I wouldn't touch BC even if I was playing with Donald Trump's money.
You’re right. Then the bubble will pop down to $50k and everyone will call it dead. Like they did from $30->$1, $260->$40, $1200->$200, $19k->$3k.
"There are so many metals, we can even synthesize some, why does gold have any value??" The answer is the same in either case. Gold has money-valuable properties that the others dont. Bitcoin has money-valuable properties that the others dont.
Bitcoin is an inflation-resistant, censorship-resistant, seizure-resistant, pseudonymous digital asset in the time of ever increasing inflation, censorship, taxation, and privacy invasion. You really don't see why it would increase in value amongst the market? Its inflation resistance alone is enough to make it a reasonable speculation.doodle wrote: ↑Thu Dec 17, 2020 5:29 am I get it, all fiat currency is the same in that it depends on an illusion of value. Short of a total dollar collapse I don't see how Bitcoin has long term staying power. Other than as an avenue for illegal money laundering that Ad pointed out, i can't think of any advantages over the regular banking system.
Im not aware of any 9 word seeds. Its possible it was a 12 word seed and we could brute force the remaining 3 words. If its worth your time to do that, message me privately and I can assist.
Yes, that's what the marketing brochure says. I'm not so sure I buy that. I don't know enough about any of this to even attempt to claim I understand what is going on. But, when people at major research institutions who understand and study this technology call it bullshit...I give that some weightbitcoininthevp wrote: ↑Wed Dec 30, 2020 1:43 pmYou’re right. Then the bubble will pop down to $50k and everyone will call it dead. Like they did from $30->$1, $260->$40, $1200->$200, $19k->$3k.
Do you see the pattern? How many decades and increasingly larger bubbles did tulips or beanie babies have?
"There are so many metals, we can even synthesize some, why does gold have any value??" The answer is the same in either case. Gold has money-valuable properties that the others dont. Bitcoin has money-valuable properties that the others dont.
Bitcoin is an inflation-resistant, censorship-resistant, seizure-resistant, pseudonymous digital asset in the time of ever increasing inflation, censorship, taxation, and privacy invasion. You really don't see why it would increase in value amongst the market? Its inflation resistance alone is enough to make it a reasonable speculation.doodle wrote: ↑Thu Dec 17, 2020 5:29 am I get it, all fiat currency is the same in that it depends on an illusion of value. Short of a total dollar collapse I don't see how Bitcoin has long term staying power. Other than as an avenue for illegal money laundering that Ad pointed out, i can't think of any advantages over the regular banking system.
What are bitcoin's properties? Gold I get. You can eschew all it's properties and just say it's beautiful and women like it for jewelry lol. That's enough to ensure it will always be desired.bitcoininthevp wrote: ↑Wed Dec 30, 2020 1:43 pm Gold has money-valuable properties that the others dont. Bitcoin has money-valuable properties that the others dont.
I admire your intellectual honesty and humbleness.doodle wrote: ↑Wed Dec 30, 2020 1:55 pm Yes, that's what the marketing brochure says. I'm not so sure I buy that. I don't know enough about any of this to even attempt to claim I understand what is going on. But, when people at major research institutions who understand and study this technology call it bullshit...I give that some weight
https://www.vox.com/conversations/2018 ... y-weaver
For everyone with the balls to gamble on Bitcoin, I wish them luck. Might it continue to sky rocket? Sure. I have no idea. I missed amazon, facebook and tesla...but I'm still doing okay. At this point the downside risk outweighs the potential upside for me.
Check out this post where I tried to put it all in one spot:SomeDude wrote: ↑Wed Dec 30, 2020 1:56 pmWhat are bitcoin's properties? Gold I get. You can eschew all it's properties and just say it's beautiful and women like it for jewelry lol. That's enough to ensure it will always be desired.bitcoininthevp wrote: ↑Wed Dec 30, 2020 1:43 pm Gold has money-valuable properties that the others dont. Bitcoin has money-valuable properties that the others dont.
I have no clue why someone would ever want a bitcoin. Yes people appear to want it because the price is going up and they want the purchasing power associated with a rising price. But who actually wants a bitcoin?
Not an attack, a serious question: What are the properties of bitcoin that make anyone want it? I get that it's limited in qty unlike dollars but absent government decree no one would want dollars backed by nothing. Why does anyone want a bitcoin? Why will anyone always want bitcoin? Someone will always have to want it because if no one wants it, the price goes to zero.
Gold can't go to zero again, at least because of the ladies.
Not trying to make this a gold vs bitcoin debate, but a comparison of the differences. I have heard lots of comparisons but I don't see it. One is physical, tangible, and desired for it's own sake rather than it's price.
bitcoininthevp wrote: ↑Mon Jan 07, 2019 9:49 am I cant know your situation and how Bitcoin might benefit you, but here are some examples of what people are using Bitcoin for. I am not claiming Bitcoin is a perfect solution for each of these uses cases, but that this is what people can and are using it for.
Censorship resistance. This includes individuals whose payments are typically censored, like wikileaks or online drug markets. This also includes groups or individuals who getting "deplatformed" (block by paypal or other fundraising platforms) because they have views that those platforms (or their governments) do not like.
Store of value. This includes people in countries whose currencies are inflating at a rate that makes Bitcoin's current volatility seem appealing. It also includes people in countries with lacking or no banking services available to them.
Speculation. This includes short term traders trying to trade on trends. But this also includes people that hold long term who believe Bitcoin can become money and in order to do so will appreciate drastically in value.
International payments. This includes people remitting money from overseas to their family. Also people paying for goods and services overseas can save money by using Bitcoin to transact. There are also countries where it is hard or impossible to exchange with online which would be serviced by Bitcoin.
Private payments. While Bitcoin is not completely anonymous, it can be transacted in a "more private" way. This includes individuals who value their financial privacy.
Micropayments. It is possible to transact in bitcoin using fractions of pennies. Especially using tools ontop of bitcoin (lightning network). This is applicable for pay-per-use services like an online newspaper paywall, paying realtime per minute used on a cell plan, etc. Even new use cases are opened up here like machine to machine micro transaction payments.
Tax evasion. This is for individuals who do not wish to pay the government the recommended taxes: income tax or otherwise.
Anti confiscation. This includes people that want to have value stored in something that cannot easily be stolen. Individuals crossing borders, feeling countries, etc. Asset forfeiture is applicable here. It also includes anyone fearful that their government might become a bit more invasive.
Anti inflation hedge. This includes individuals wanting to hold money that isnt inflating. As this use case becomes more appealing (bitcoin's volatility decreasing), Bitcoin will be a threat to central banks and the governments that attain part of their non-taxation funding from inflating the money supply. By eliminating the ability for governments to print money to benefit themselves, governments will have to shrink or get their funding from increasing taxes, which is harder than inflating.
Cheaper payments. Fees on Bitcoin transactions can be very low. So there is some advantage for people transacting in Bitcoin, even in the same country, where fees might be high. This might be the case when making medium/large purchase online and avoiding the ~3% credit card fee for example.
Programmable money. I give my son bitcoin that cannot be spent before the year 2050 for example. My 3 business partners and I can fund a bitcoin address such that 2 our of the 3 of us has to approve the transaction in order for it to go through. Google "smart contracts" for other examples of this.
Oh for sure you got the right audience here. No doubt shills like Max Keiser do a great job at pumping things up, make it sound like the entire world is going to shit and missing out on gold and Bitcoin is like turning down an opportunity to board Noah's ark.bitcoininthevp wrote: ↑Wed Dec 30, 2020 2:03 pmI admire your intellectual honesty and humbleness.doodle wrote: ↑Wed Dec 30, 2020 1:55 pm Yes, that's what the marketing brochure says. I'm not so sure I buy that. I don't know enough about any of this to even attempt to claim I understand what is going on. But, when people at major research institutions who understand and study this technology call it bullshit...I give that some weight
https://www.vox.com/conversations/2018 ... y-weaver
For everyone with the balls to gamble on Bitcoin, I wish them luck. Might it continue to sky rocket? Sure. I have no idea. I missed amazon, facebook and tesla...but I'm still doing okay. At this point the downside risk outweighs the potential upside for me.
I think it is worth your time to investigate bitcoin further. That is the main reason I post in these forums. It seems folks that invest in something as "crazy" (not mainstream, GOLD?) as the PP could potentially be folks that would adopt Bitcoin.
You found a guy in a vox article whose claim is not technical at all. His claim is that mining is centralized and that transactions could be censored. This is not a technical argument and has valid rebuttals: https://www.coindesk.com/no-concentrati ... ak-bitcoin
This sort of comment seems quite goal-post-moving. Along the lines "But CME would never list BTC futures!", "But no fortune 500 companies would keep their treasury in BTC!", "Youll never see someone like Paul Tudor Jones investing in BTC!", "But those hedge funds are investing billions $$$ in bitcoin for the wrong reasons!" Feels very:
I will message you later this week, thank you. I saw just one other person on the internet with the same problem. Never had 12 words in the first place. I wish it were more common because there would be more written about it. Talk to you later, thanks.bitcoininthevp wrote: ↑Wed Dec 30, 2020 1:45 pmIm not aware of any 9 word seeds. Its possible it was a 12 word seed and we could brute force the remaining 3 words. If its worth your time to do that, message me privately and I can assist.