Will you get vaccinated for COVID?

[vnatale]

I have an appointment to get the first dose of the Moderna vaccine next week. Anyone want to talk me out of it?

Best wishes. Please let us know your experience. I'm still contemplating but leaning heavily toward getting vaccinated whenever my place in line comes up. My daughter-in-law (hospital admin) just got the first shot, said it was like a flu shot. No biggie. My nurse daughter is still leaning no - says not enough time to have evaluated long term consequences.

Seems similar to software users? Some choose to be beta users while some other want to wait until version 2.0 is out?

[Maddy]

I have an appointment to get the first dose of the Moderna vaccine next week. Anyone want to talk me out of it?

If you're going to be a research subject, I'd suggest you sign up for a study that pays. Having regularly done this for tuition money while working in a university research lab, this is something I know a fair bit about. The ones that require you to drink something radioactive are generally the most lucrative.

[vnatale]

If true about the safety (or lack thereof) of this vaccine then it somewhat takes off the luster of Trump's constant crowing (as recently as yesterday) about what a great feat this was?

Somewhat you get what you pay for? You take shortcuts from the normal process and you might get an inferior result?

[Xan]

I don't truly understand vaccine hesitancy.

Group A: You think that COVID is the worst thing ever. For sure you'll want the vaccine.

Group B: You think that all this masking and distancing and shutting everything down is an overreaction. Don't you also want the vaccine?

Group B knows there's no perfect safety, and is comfortable taking small risks in order to live their lives. It seems that if you're in Group B, you'd a) want to get back to normal ASAP, and b) would be okay with the small risk of something going wrong from the vaccine.

Speaking for myself, give me the vaccine. I want my life back.

[Tortoise]

Speaking for myself, give me the vaccine. I want my life back.

How does taking the vaccine give you your life back?

What if the risk of complications from Covid at your age and health status is lower than the risk of complications from the vaccine?

[SomeDude]

I'm in group C. I'm skeptical COVID is even a thing. I think if we weren't testing for it, we might not know anything was different. Maybe this would go down as a bad flu year, but maybe not. Probably not.

Taking this vaccine seems crazy to me, not just for me, but for anyone. Its not even a vaccine right? Its gene therapy. Who knows what else it will screw up in your body.

If i was really worried about getting the flu, I'd avoid contact with people as much as possible until i was no longer worried.

At any rate, i haven't even had a cold in 20 years.

I started to "get my life back" yesterday. I went grocery shopping and i saw an elderly man without a mask on. I took mine off and asked him if anyone hassles him for not wearing. He said nope, no one says anything. So i finished shopping with mine off.

In my estimation, COVID will end when we stop testing and stop wearing masks.

I realize some other posters will get incensed by what i wrote here. Ohhh well its the internet guys. You don't have to come over to my place for dinner. If you did though i would insist you take off your masks.

[Smith1776]

If you immunize your bond portfolio do you still need the vaccine for COVID? Asking for a friend.

[SomeDude]

FWIW to some of you, the "vaccine" was developed using tissue from aborted babies.

[dualstow]

FWIW to some of you, the "vaccine" was developed using tissue from aborted babies.

Technically true, but:
https://www.verywellhealth.com/do-vacci ... sue-260337

The Vatican has taken a stand on the issue. In 2017, the Vatican's Pontifical Academy for Life said that lack of vaccinations represents a serious health risk.

They stated, "In the past, vaccines had been prepared using cells from aborted human fetuses, however currently used cell lines are very distant from the original abortions ... today it is no longer necessary to obtain cells from new voluntary abortions, and that the cell lines on which the vaccines are based in are derived solely from two fetuses originally aborted in the 1960’s."

see also:
https://www.sciencemag.org/news/2020/06 ... etal-cells

[Kriegsspiel]

I'm in group C. I'm skeptical COVID is even a thing. I think if we weren't testing for it, we might not know anything was different. Maybe this would go down as a bad flu year, but maybe not. Probably not.

Taking this vaccine seems crazy to me, not just for me, but for anyone. Its not even a vaccine right? Its gene therapy. Who knows what else it will screw up in your body.

If i was really worried about getting the flu, I'd avoid contact with people as much as possible until i was no longer worried.

I started to "get my life back" yesterday. I went grocery shopping and i saw an elderly man without a mask on. I took mine off and asked him if anyone hassles him for not wearing. He said nope, no one says anything. So i finished shopping with mine off.

In my estimation, COVID will end when we stop testing and stop wearing masks.

Couldn't agree more.

[WiseOne]

Speaking for myself, give me the vaccine. I want my life back.

Xan, if the vaccine would indeed give you your life back, i.e. lead to relaxing of mask/distancing/lockdowns, then I could understand that. However, it won't - and it's not because politicians are lying. They're not. They're telling us straight-up that lockdowns, mask mandates, distancing etc will continue. You don't get to not wear a mask or throw a dinner party because you got the vaccine.

I don't really know what the end point of the pandemic is. I guess when the positive test rate drops to zero, or near zero, and stays there for a minimum of 6 months to a year. And, the ICUs are empty of patients with respiratory illness. Remember it was less than 1% all summer with very little ICU action but that wasn't enough, so I assume something like the above conditions would have to happen.

And the thing is, that will never happen. What's the false positive rate of the tests, including detecting past infection? There have been a few educated guesses of somewhere in the neighborhood of 1%. Certainly not zero. And, there will always be patients flooding into ICUs with respiratory illnesses in the winter. So I'm guessing that the pandemic will end only when a) the people get tired of it and just start ignoring the laws, making them impossible to enforce, or b) politicians realize there is no endpoint, they get tired of the endless cycling, and they'll simply declare victory and walk off the field based on whatever numbers they decide to talk about. God only knows what role the vaccine will play in all that, but I'm guessing it won't be a big factor.

[Xan]

I'm not sure what y'all are talking about. Maybe it's different in CA or NY, but here, all the constraints are self-imposed. My kids' indoor bounce place is closed because people don't want to go there. Nobody's hosting or attending dinner parties because they think it isn't a good idea. I think restaurants are mandated to max 50% capacity. Other than that there isn't much government involvement.

I don't care whose fault it is: the virus itself, government, people. The vaccine will let everybody get back to normal and I can't wait.

[glennds]

I'm not sure what y'all are talking about. Maybe it's different in CA or NY, but here, all the constraints are self-imposed. My kids' indoor bounce place is closed because people don't want to go there. Nobody's hosting or attending dinner parties because they think it isn't a good idea. I think restaurants are mandated to max 50% capacity. Other than that there isn't much government involvement.

I don't care whose fault it is: the virus itself, government, people. The vaccine will let everybody get back to normal and I can't wait.

Same exact thing here (Phoenix, AZ). Some people are very conservative and careful regarding COVID, others are behaving and experiencing daily life little different from 2019. It seems to be mostly up to the individual, and you can make your own choice whether to go out to a packed bar, or avoid it due to COVID or any other reason you like. However special events, shows, concerts and things like that are an exception unfortunately.

And there are signs on most retail businesses requiring a mask for customers. I think there is a county wide mask mandate. Some businesses enforce it and others don't. Most seem to go along with it. I gather from this talk that it must be different in other states.

Yes, I think things are going to get back to normal one way or another. The vaccine will just accelerate it.

[vnatale]

I'm not sure what y'all are talking about. Maybe it's different in CA or NY, but here, all the constraints are self-imposed. My kids' indoor bounce place is closed because people don't want to go there. Nobody's hosting or attending dinner parties because they think it isn't a good idea. I think restaurants are mandated to max 50% capacity. Other than that there isn't much government involvement.

I don't care whose fault it is: the virus itself, government, people. The vaccine will let everybody get back to normal and I can't wait.

Same exact thing here (Phoenix, AZ). Some people are very conservative and careful regarding COVID, others are behaving and experiencing daily life little different from 2019. It seems to be mostly up to the individual, and you can make your own choice whether to go out to a packed bar, or avoid it due to COVID or any other reason you like. However special events, shows, concerts and things like that are an exception unfortunately.

And there are signs on most retail businesses requiring a mask for customers. I think there is a county wide mask mandate. Some businesses enforce it and others don't. Most seem to go along with it. I gather from this talk that it must be different in other states.

Yes, I think things are going to get back to normal one way or another. The vaccine will just accelerate it.

Do not see anyone in the supermarket here in Massachusetts who are NOT wearing a mask.

I've had three sets of home heating people come to my house this past week. All three sets of them were wearing masks. I asked each of them if they wanted me to wear one. The first two said that they did not care. The last one (Thursday) did ask me to wear one.

[Mark Leavy]

I'm not sure what y'all are talking about. Maybe it's different in CA or NY, but here, all the constraints are self-imposed. My kids' indoor bounce place is closed because people don't want to go there. Nobody's hosting or attending dinner parties because they think it isn't a good idea. I think restaurants are mandated to max 50% capacity. Other than that there isn't much government involvement.

I don't care whose fault it is: the virus itself, government, people. The vaccine will let everybody get back to normal and I can't wait.

It's very state dependent.
Arizona, Utah, Texas, Florida, Wyoming, South Dakota, etc. : You can eat out and generally flout the mask mandate.
California, Oregon, Washington, Colorado, New York, New Mexico, etc. : Locked down tight. No eating out, no going anywhere without a mask.

[Mountaineer]

I'm not sure what y'all are talking about. Maybe it's different in CA or NY, but here, all the constraints are self-imposed. My kids' indoor bounce place is closed because people don't want to go there. Nobody's hosting or attending dinner parties because they think it isn't a good idea. I think restaurants are mandated to max 50% capacity. Other than that there isn't much government involvement.

I don't care whose fault it is: the virus itself, government, people. The vaccine will let everybody get back to normal and I can't wait.

It's very state dependent.
Arizona, Utah, Texas, Florida, Wyoming, South Dakota, etc. : You can eat out and generally flout the mask mandate.
California, Oregon, Washington, Colorado, New York, New Mexico, etc. : Locked down tight. No eating out, no going anywhere without a mask.

But folks, it's not political! Anyone care to play the game of what does each of those lists of states have in common?

Inhalation of either saltwater fumes or old hippy underarm odors (second group)?

Freedom appreciators (first group)?

[WiseOne]

The vaccine will let everybody get back to normal and I can't wait.

What we're trying to tell you, Xan, is that things just aren't that simple. Here's the message coming from On High, from what I suppose most people here would consider a "trusted news source":

https://www.usatoday.com/videos/news/na ... 872377001/

"The nation's preeminent infectious disease expert says he believes the country can expect "some degree of normality that is close to where we were" by the end of next year if 75-80% of the population is vaccinated."

And since December 9, Fauci has revised that estimate of the % of population who needs to take the vaccine up to 85-90%.

You're right that the lockdowns are in effect because most people believe those measures to be necessary. Why do they believe that? Because that's what the media and the government are telling them. Well then, they won't change their minds until the government tells them the measures are no longer needed. It's not at all clear to me what conditions will have to exist before the government will send that message, and whether those conditions are at all realistic.

[Xan]

When 10% are vaccinated, that's 10% of the population who can forget about the virus and are doing their normal things. When it's 20%, that's twice as good. 40% is twice as good again. It isn't an all-or-nothing proposition about us crossing some threshold: even if we don't cross whatever herd immunity threshold Fauci dreams up, whoever can live a normal life will be able to do it, and that's great.

I think the only exception that to it MAY be huge sporting events and concerts. For everything else, normality will scale with the number of people vaccinated.

[I Shrugged]

When the measurables drop enough that the politicians can declare that they beat it with their good leadership, things will get back to normal. Regardless of how many people have been vaccinated.

(Do I need to say "in my opinion" or "I think"? Should I? The reader should always assume that, don't you think?)

[SomeDude]

When the measurables drop enough that the politicians can declare that they beat it with their good leadership, things will get back to normal. Regardless of how many people have been vaccinated.

(Do I need to say "in my opinion" or "I think"? Should I? The reader should always assume that, don't you think?)

In my opinion you need to say "in my opinion" or something like that otherwise very sensitive posters will think you're lecturing them and fees fees get hurt. At least that's what I think happens.

[Tortoise]

Here’s an example of why I agree with Tom that normalcy probably won’t scale linearly with the number of people vaccinated:

Mike Yoder (@Yoder_Esqq) Tweeted:
I received my negative #COVID19 test results today at 11:24 a.m.

At 11:46 a.m, I was told I couldn’t enter @WholeFoods because I didn’t have a
mask.

I showed them a copy of my test results, and they responded:

“Other people don’t know you don’t have coronavirus.”

https://twitter.com/Yoder_Esqq/status/1 ... 28161?s=20

[vnatale]

When the measurables drop enough that the politicians can declare that they beat it with their good leadership, things will get back to normal. Regardless of how many people have been vaccinated.

(Do I need to say "in my opinion" or "I think"? Should I? The reader should always assume that, don't you think?)

Somehow I have always thought there was a difference because I never, ever say or write, "in my opinion" because who else's opinion could it ever be when I am saying or writing it?

But "I think" is different. I say you think thoughts and you feel emotions. Too many people say, "I feel" when they are expressing a thought. Therefore I sometimes make it a point to use "I think" for emphasis. "I believe" may mean my belief is subject to being questioned.

[WiseOne]

I don’t think it will scale linearly due to the network effects and minimum thresholds required to meet certain amount for an event.

Sorry I don't think I was so clear in my earlier posts. I think the signal that politicians will be looking for is zero new infections for an extended period of time. Since the summer (a few months) wasn't enough, I assume 6 months to a year will be required. And, zero new infections means zero positive test results....which will never happen. There is a false positive rate with the tests that's been estimated to be as high as 1%.

So I truly don't know what the endpoint will be for easing lockdowns & restrictions, or what role vaccination will play. Somehow, vaccinating 90% of Americans doesn't seem likely no matter what the time horizon. Vaccinating nursing home residents will definitely provide the most bang for the buck, but that hasn't even started yet.

[Maddy]

makes you wonder?
https://www.americanthinker.com/article ... erica.html

World Health Organization Chief Scientist Soumya Swaminathan: "I don't believe we have the evidence on any of the vaccines to be confident that it's going to prevent people from actually getting the infection and therefore being able to pass it on.”

[Mountaineer]

Vaccinating nursing home residents will definitely provide the most bang for the buck, but that hasn't even started yet.

Certainly not trying to quantify the relative values of different people’s lives, but arguably, all else equal, the life of a child is worth more than the life of an 80 year old in the overall sense.

I wonder what death rates are for nursing homes and assisted living facilities pre-covid?

If 20% of nursing home patients die each year, and maybe 90% of current nursing home patients are expected to die over the next 5 years, does it make sense to prioritize their vaccines?

Possibly, because they are most at risk. And children have virtually no risk.

Also, let’s consider there’s people right now as you read this, with serious issues, waiting in an emergency department waiting room for care, because there’s no beds in the ED, because ED patients who are being admitted upstairs have no bed upstairs, because patients currently admitted but ready for discharge have no nursing home placement.

So the nursing home death actually improves patient care on the margins with how our system is set up.

I don’t want nursing home patients to die and I’m not arguing we shouldn’t prioritize their vaccines.

I just find it fascinating to consider these elements which are ethically frowned upon and generally not discussed.

And we could then say, well the system should have more nursing home capacity, okay great, but a lot of that is paid by Medicaid, so we’d need to raise taxes. Which shifts the burden to pay for it down to the young employed person. So either way, it’s a wealth transfer from the young to the old. Possibly a good worthwhile one, but a wealth transfer all the same.

That is skating on pretty thin ice towards Hitler’s final solution. It rarely if ever works out well when man tries to play God. I certainly am not qualified to say when a life of any age is worth more or less than that of another age.