Will you get vaccinated for COVID?

[Ad Orientem]

To the OP's original post...

Yes.

Don't you think you already had it, Ad?

I do. But I was not tested as tests at the time were only available to those who were seriously ill. So I don't know for certain. Also I don't know the duration of any immunity assuming I did have it.

[Mark Leavy]

To the OP's original post...

Yes.

Don't you think you already had it, Ad?

I do. But I was not tested as tests at the time were only available to those who were seriously ill. So I don't know for certain. Also I don't know the duration of any immunity assuming I did have it.

Is there a mechanism whereby a vaccine could have a longer immunity duration than inoculation via infection?

[Ad Orientem]

To the OP's original post...

Yes.

Don't you think you already had it, Ad?

I do. But I was not tested as tests at the time were only available to those who were seriously ill. So I don't know for certain. Also I don't know the duration of any immunity assuming I did have it.

Is there a mechanism whereby a vaccine could have a longer immunity duration than inoculation via infection?

No idea. That's a good question and one I may ask before getting the jab.

[SomeDude]

The downside of coronavirus, for me personally, is virtually nil. I have no co-morbidities and my immune system is Strong. Like bull.

The downside of a vaccine, is unknown. It could be nothing, it could be a very tiny likelihood of something horrific. The key is that it is unknown, versus coronavirus, which is pretty well understood at this point and completely benign for someone like me.

Coronavirus is so deadly, you have to take a test to know you have it!

I think there's a good good chance if we rando tested people for the flu each year at least 20% of the population would test positive. Rona doesn't seem any deadlier than the flu and could be even less contagious. The testing though......that is the real danger it seems.

Does anyone here know anyone or know anyone who knows anyone who actually died from it? I don't mean someone who was 80 with cancer or serious problems who got sick and this contributed. People in those situations often die of the flu or pneumonia, not they're underlying disease.

[vnatale]

Mark, have you considered getting the antibody test? I suppose it would be inconclusive if negative, but would be interesting if positive.

Around June I got tested for antibodies while passing through Portland. A couple of weeks earlier I had been extra tired for 2 days in a row (which is usually my clue that I may have been exposed to something). The test came up negative. I'll probably get it done again later this year. At the time, there hadn't been much discussion of T-Cell immunity - which is maybe a thing. I'll see if I can get tested for both.

As an aside, I use Quest Diagnostics for any sort of testing I want done. Super easy. Setup the tests and pay on line. Pick a phlebotomist nearby. In and out in 15 minutes. Results by email in a few days.

I just got out of the hotel communal swimming pool.
Mark

I guess this would be considered tangential but I have to ask.

About five years I was shocked to discover that in Massachusetts I am not allowed to order my own blood tests. Any blood tests HAVE to be ordered by a doctor. I'm not sure if it was ever sufficiently explained to me why this is the case.

Since you seem to be both everywhere in this country and world....do you have any idea how widespread this is in the United States? I think I had a choice of driving to either Vermont or New Hampshire or both to get those blood tests done without having to involve a doctor.

Vinny

Vinny, I believe it varies state to state. Here in AZ a statute was passed several years ago that permitted public access to lab without a physician order. Shortly after a few retail type labs set up shop. I've used one, when I got interested in preventive health and wanted to know about c-reactive protein and a bunch of other markers. Their menu was online and you could just walk in or call for a set appointment, your choice.

I don't quite understand why a physician order should be required in any state. I don't believe a lab test can do harm in and of itself, and so long as the lab is licensed and maintaining basic standards, I don't see much risk to protect the public from.
What a waste of health care dollars to go in for a physician visit for no other reason than to obtain a lab order for a test you knew you wanted in the first place.

This was about five years ago so I'm not clear on all the details but....I seem to remember I would not have been charged by my doctor's office just for it to call in the test for me. I am almost certain that I was not. But I was definitely charged for the visit that she wanted to have with me once she saw I'd not been in the office for a while. It was at that meeting that she wanted me to have all kinds of tests that I'd never had. I was questioning them since they would have all been 100% self-pay for me...after that it all went downhill in our meeting wherein she stated that she no longer wanted me as a patient. The main problem was that because insurance has been mandatory in Massachusetts for years prior to the ACA the mindset is that everyone has coverage for certain things, in this case preventative tests. At the time I was in a medical cost sharing plan that while it satisfied the Massachusetts requirements for health coverage it paid nothing for preventative tests.

Vinny

[vnatale]

Yea, the entry requirement is very likely.

For me, I don't have a hard opposition to the vaccine. Just that it doesn't make any sense for me.
But then again, I do plenty of things that don't make sense to me in furtherance of larger goals. So... while I'm not yet ready to go through an extended quarantine and wear a mask for 15 hours to get to the Amalfi coast, I will undergo a vaccine if that is the price.

My world traveler proves to me more Italian than me! I'm 100% Southern Italian since my father came from where he could see Mt. Vesuvius from his village and my mother's side of the family (Amalfitano) came from less than an hour away, near the Amalfi coast.

It was only in the recent past that a cousin told me that was where that side of family came from in Italy. I had never prior heard of the Amalfi coast! Yet, our forum world traveler is evidently well familiar with it!

Vinny

[vnatale]

The downside of coronavirus, for me personally, is virtually nil. I have no co-morbidities and my immune system is Strong. Like bull.

The downside of a vaccine, is unknown. It could be nothing, it could be a very tiny likelihood of something horrific. The key is that it is unknown, versus coronavirus, which is pretty well understood at this point and completely benign for someone like me.

Coronavirus is so deadly, you have to take a test to know you have it!

I think there's a good good chance if we rando tested people for the flu each year at least 20% of the population would test positive. Rona doesn't seem any deadlier than the flu and could be even less contagious. The testing though......that is the real danger it seems.

Does anyone here know anyone or know anyone who knows anyone who actually died from it? I don't mean someone who was 80 with cancer or serious problems who got sick and this contributed. People in those situations often die of the flu or pneumonia, not they're underlying disease.

I do not directly know anyone who has died from it. Also, don't directly know that many people who have contracted it. Certainly no more than a handful, if even that many.

Vinny

[WiseOne]

@ Ad Orientum
Before you get vaccinated, at least get an antibody test. I had my annual physical last month and they just drew an extra vial of blood. The government pays the tab, no insurance required.

Sadly (assuming the results are even reliable), mine came back negative.

Yes, I was going to suggest that. Mark, you took your antibody test too soon after being sick, so worth repeating it for sure.

I wonder if a positive antibody test combined with a negative PCR test will be an acceptable substitute for the vaccine for things like mandatory masking on airplanes. Probably not. So it's mainly for your own peace of mind. The last info I saw on the infection-fatality rate (not to be confused with case-fatality rate) is 0.4%, which is higher than average for flu but well within the range of variability. And that's likely higher than it will settle out to be, given that average fatality is age 80+ with comorbid conditions, and treatments continue to improve.

[SomeDude]

The downside of coronavirus, for me personally, is virtually nil. I have no co-morbidities and my immune system is Strong. Like bull.

The downside of a vaccine, is unknown. It could be nothing, it could be a very tiny likelihood of something horrific. The key is that it is unknown, versus coronavirus, which is pretty well understood at this point and completely benign for someone like me.

Coronavirus is so deadly, you have to take a test to know you have it!

I think there's a good good chance if we rando tested people for the flu each year at least 20% of the population would test positive. Rona doesn't seem any deadlier than the flu and could be even less contagious. The testing though......that is the real danger it seems.

Does anyone here know anyone or know anyone who knows anyone who actually died from it? I don't mean someone who was 80 with cancer or serious problems who got sick and this contributed. People in those situations often die of the flu or pneumonia, not they're underlying disease.

I do not directly know anyone who has died from it. Also, don't directly know that many people who have contracted it. Certainly no more than a handful, if even that many.

Vinny

Thanks. As far as "pandemics" go, it's pretty weak. It's a shame so many millions of lives have been shattered by the lockdowns to prevent people from getting the flu.

[dualstow]

we may end up following china https://dailycaller.com/2020/11/23/chin ... king-code/
how far from travel to buy and sell?
...

Wow, the NYT piece that it links to:

But a New York Times analysis of the software’s code found that the system does more than decide in real time whether someone poses a contagion risk. It also appears to share information with the police, setting a template for new forms of automated social control that could persist long after the epidemic subsides.

even more scary .. i happened to read this article immediately after that one...
https://thenationalpulse.com/exclusive/ ... nsultants/

[SomeDude]

between Bidens deep connection to the Chinese government (god help us if they have blackmail material on him and hunter) and the lefts love of all things authoritarian, this does not bode well for freedom..

Based on Hunter's laptop......I'm guessing when he and "the big guy" went to China, the Chinese got everything they need.

Is there a thread here where people who voted for the big guy explained why? I have got to hear the reasons................

[I Shrugged]

Back to topic, a national poll just found that 42% of people said they will not get vaccinated.

[vnatale]

Back to topic, a national poll just found that 42% of people said they will not get vaccinated.

Just by happenstance quite close to the same percentage who voted for Trump earlier this month?

Vinny

[SomeDude]

Back to topic, a national poll just found that 42% of people said they will not get vaccinated.

I just saw CNN release a poll that said 42% of Americans are anti-social-distancing thought criminals.

BTW - my wife sometimes accuses me of being a misogynist and anti-immigrant, then I remind her my favorite philosopher is a chain smoking Russian woman.

We the Living is a very important read for people to see what kind of society we're headed into.

I encourage everyone I know to read Anthem.

[vnatale]

Back to topic, a national poll just found that 42% of people said they will not get vaccinated.

I just saw CNN release a poll that said 42% of Americans are anti-social-distancing thought criminals.

BTW - my wife sometimes accuses me of being a misogynist and anti-immigrant, then I remind her my favorite philosopher is a chain smoking Russian woman.

We the Living is a very important read for people to see what kind of society we're headed into.

I encourage everyone I know to read Anthem.

Author? Ayn Rand? If not, who?

Vinny

[I Shrugged]

Vinny, yes.

[Mark Leavy]

Still working on my vaccination...

I'm heading North on I5 and stopped in Redding, CA for the night. I asked the front desk gal if the local restaurants were allowing "dine in".

She said that the county is officially "purple" but everyone is ignoring it.

The 'bar and grill' that I stopped in on this evening was 20 yards of 'stool to stool' and no one masked up. Servers included. We partied like it was 2019. God's country

Mark

Redding.jpeg (225.69 KiB) Viewed 3473 times

[SomeDude]

Mark you're way better looking than your writing implied.

[Mark Leavy]

Mark you're way better looking than your writing implied.

I've been letting my hair grow out.

[vnatale]

I have an appointment to get the first dose of the Moderna vaccine next week. Anyone want to talk me out of it?

Are you at the head of the line because of your profession?

My doctor told me that in spite of age I am healthy so I'm probably looking at next summer for mine

[Mark Leavy]

I have an appointment to get the first dose of the Moderna vaccine next week. Anyone want to talk me out of it?

Hell no. I'm all in favor of anyone not me getting the vaccine early and often.
Thank you for your service.

[Mountaineer]

I have an appointment to get the first dose of the Moderna vaccine next week. Anyone want to talk me out of it?

Best wishes. Please let us know your experience. I'm still contemplating but leaning heavily toward getting vaccinated whenever my place in line comes up. My daughter-in-law (hospital admin) just got the first shot, said it was like a flu shot. No biggie. My nurse daughter is still leaning no - says not enough time to have evaluated long term consequences.

[Mark Leavy]

I have an appointment to get the first dose of the Moderna vaccine next week. Anyone want to talk me out of it?

Hell no. I'm all in favor of anyone not me getting the vaccine early and often.
Thank you for your service.

Glad to oblige. If that was your attempt to dissuade me, you'll have to do better tho.

In all seriousness, I think the vaccine will be net positive - especially for anyone in a risk group, or as in your case, good for your business. And if it turns out that I need it to fly overseas, I'll be asking for the front of the line.

[WiseOne]

I have an appointment to get the first dose of the Moderna vaccine next week. Anyone want to talk me out of it?

Of course I wouldn't do that. But, I'll explain my reasoning for the decisions I made, and let's see if that helps. It all boils down to benefit vs. risk - which is what should guide any medical decision.

First: I am low risk - and most likely, much lower risk than the average American due to my age, general health & diet, & lack of comorbid conditions. We know that only 5% of COVID deaths occurred in people with no comorbid conditions. Also I'm pretty sure I've had at least two high risk exposures to COVID, and never had any symptoms.

Second: It will not change my life one tiny bit. We will still be semi-locked down, working from home, wearing masks, distancing etc for the foreseeable future.

Third: I'm only rarely face to face with a patient. And according my hospital, everybody is 100% safe if all parties are wearing masks. We all know that's ridiculous, but...it's what they tell me.

And, the big one...

This is the first time the mRNA vaccine technology has been used. That makes this vaccine a double whammy of unknown risk. In a month or two, we'll have a pretty good idea of short term risks, and it's already looking like it's pretty negligible. However, there is no data at all on long-term risks. For example, I can easily imagine long term increases in cancer risk, or impaired immune function. We don't know a lot about how mRNA works; the research on this started relatively recently due to new genetic testing technologies. The Phase 3 trials are supposed to take a couple of years to complete, but for the purposes of this quickie approval, only 2 months of data were used. That also means that there's no indication of how long the vaccine will be effective, beyond the two months.

As a cautionary tale, thalidomide was considered to be so safe and effective it was approved without going through the long term trials. Oopsie. As you all know, this resulted in births of a lot of kids with missing limbs. The COVID vaccines are our modern day version of what could well turn out to be another thalidomide situation.

So on balance, the benefit to me is nil, and the risks are unknown. Could be anything from nil to thalidomide-level badness. We just don't know.

In your case MangoMan, there may be more benefits to be had. Like, if you're in a higher risk group (I believe you are by age), or if your dental practice would benefit from your being vaccinated. That could change the calculus. I'm actually planning to help my mom get the COVID vaccine once it becomes available to her group (>age 80, outside of care homes). There's a much clearer benefit to her, whereas long-term consequences are rather less of a concern given her age.

I know what you're thinking now: I should get the vaccine to protect my mom. That is indeed a potential benefit and it's the one thing that might make me decide to get it earlier than I otherwise would like. What I would like best, of course, is to wait until the Phase 3 trials are completed & reported, which is about 2 years. I would be pretty surprised if the vaccine weren't made mandatory well before then, so in reality I might only be able to hold out a month or two. Hoping for 3.

[vnatale]

I have an appointment to get the first dose of the Moderna vaccine next week. Anyone want to talk me out of it?

Best wishes. Please let us know your experience. I'm still contemplating but leaning heavily toward getting vaccinated whenever my place in line comes up. My daughter-in-law (hospital admin) just got the first shot, said it was like a flu shot. No biggie. My nurse daughter is still leaning no - says not enough time to have evaluated long term consequences.

Seems similar to software users? Some choose to be beta users while some other want to wait until version 2.0 is out?