What makes you happy? Unhappy?

[Libertarian666]

And one man or woman can do it. Unilaterally. All it took to close gyms was the governor signing a piece of paper in many states. No legislative body. No judge. One person. And when a group of people decided fuck that, and made plans to kidnap a governor, these people are the monsters and vilified.

I'm genuinely interested to know if this is a widely held attitude. The notion that the elected governor's pandemic handling decisions constitute a form of tyranny and that the group of men that hatched a plot to kidnap her are justified, should not be criticized, and perhaps even applauded.

Is this a fringe view, or a commonly held view?
Anyone care to share their personal perception or what they have heard from others?

I presume a kidnapping had it succeeded, would have ended violently. It's hard to imagine the scenarios where it wouldn't. I understand some of the text messages intercepted by the FBI talk about "capping her".

And if I have misunderstood tomfoolery's position, please correct me. What I'm trying to do here is gauge broad sentiment on the issue.

1.) I'm totally and unequivocally against kidnapping elected officials and "capping them".

2.) I don't much believe the FBI any more. I think they have been rapidly losing credibility if they ever even had it. Antifa and BLM have been burning down our cities, marching on government buildings shouting "Death to America" and even trying to take over the city of Seattle and declare themselves a sovereign nation. And this is what the FBI has been focusing their resources on?

3.) I do think shutting down businesses by executive order because they are "non-essential" is a form of tyranny or at least a slippery slope in that direction that we may someday regret heading down.

Yes, it is tyranny.

No, I don't support trying to kidnap her.

Unfortunately it's effectively impossible to do anything about tyrannical elected officials other than to try to out-wait them.

This is another example of why I don't believe in the legitimacy of government.

Of course I realize that they don't care that I don't accept their legitimacy. They have lots of guns and other tools of violence, so I submit to them, just as I would to a gang that had taken over my neighborhood if I couldn't escape.

In fact, it is exactly the same morally as such a gang. The difference is that most people do accept government as legitimate, whereas most people don't accept gangs as legitimate.

[glennds]

And one man or woman can do it. Unilaterally. All it took to close gyms was the governor signing a piece of paper in many states. No legislative body. No judge. One person. And when a group of people decided fuck that, and made plans to kidnap a governor, these people are the monsters and vilified.

I'm genuinely interested to know if this is a widely held attitude. The notion that the elected governor's pandemic handling decisions constitute a form of tyranny and that the group of men that hatched a plot to kidnap her are justified, should not be criticized, and perhaps even applauded.

Is this a fringe view, or a commonly held view?
Anyone care to share their personal perception or what they have heard from others?

I presume a kidnapping had it succeeded, would have ended violently. It's hard to imagine the scenarios where it wouldn't. I understand some of the text messages intercepted by the FBI talk about "capping her".

And if I have misunderstood tomfoolery's position, please correct me. What I'm trying to do here is gauge broad sentiment on the issue.

1.) I'm totally and unequivocally against kidnapping elected officials and "capping them".

2.) I don't much believe the FBI any more. I think they have been rapidly losing credibility if they ever even had it. Antifa and BLM have been burning down our cities, marching on government buildings shouting "Death to America" and even trying to take over the city of Seattle and declare themselves a sovereign nation. And this is what the FBI has been focusing their resources on?

3.) I do think shutting down businesses by executive order because they are "non-essential" is a form of tyranny or at least a slippery slope in that direction that we may someday regret heading down.

Yes, it is tyranny.

No, I don't support trying to kidnap her.

Unfortunately it's effectively impossible to do anything about tyrannical elected officials other than to try to out-wait them.

This is another example of why I don't believe in the legitimacy of government.

Of course I realize that they don't care that I don't accept their legitimacy. They have lots of guns and other tools of violence, so I submit to them, just as I would to a gang that had taken over my neighborhood if I couldn't escape.

In fact, it is exactly the same morally as such a gang. The difference is that most people do accept government as legitimate, whereas most people don't accept gangs as legitimate.

Some might say it's not tyranny if the official was duly elected by the populace. When you elect someone you (meaning the voters) are handing them the authority to make decisions in the future.
If you do not approve of those decisions, there are a series of remedies:
1. The court system, if you believe the leader's decisions are illegal.
2. Launch a recall effort and work to recruit the support of your fellow citizens. If your sentiments are widely shared by others, you should be able to find support.
3. Vote the leader out at the end of term, putting your energy into the campaign to support the opponent.

These are the classic remedies that were taught once upon a time in civics. I notice they all require a certain amount of energy and maybe that's the obstacle?

I do not understand in a civilized society how it could be acceptable to substitute these mechanisms with kidnapping or capping the elected leader if one person or a small group is dissatisfied. And I wanted to know if doing so is considered acceptable to others and if it is, I'm starting to think I belong in Canada.
On the other hand, if it's just a fringe attitude held only by extremists, the radicalized, or an ignorant minority, it's a different story.

[Libertarian666]

And one man or woman can do it. Unilaterally. All it took to close gyms was the governor signing a piece of paper in many states. No legislative body. No judge. One person. And when a group of people decided fuck that, and made plans to kidnap a governor, these people are the monsters and vilified.

I'm genuinely interested to know if this is a widely held attitude. The notion that the elected governor's pandemic handling decisions constitute a form of tyranny and that the group of men that hatched a plot to kidnap her are justified, should not be criticized, and perhaps even applauded.

Is this a fringe view, or a commonly held view?
Anyone care to share their personal perception or what they have heard from others?

I presume a kidnapping had it succeeded, would have ended violently. It's hard to imagine the scenarios where it wouldn't. I understand some of the text messages intercepted by the FBI talk about "capping her".

And if I have misunderstood tomfoolery's position, please correct me. What I'm trying to do here is gauge broad sentiment on the issue.

1.) I'm totally and unequivocally against kidnapping elected officials and "capping them".

2.) I don't much believe the FBI any more. I think they have been rapidly losing credibility if they ever even had it. Antifa and BLM have been burning down our cities, marching on government buildings shouting "Death to America" and even trying to take over the city of Seattle and declare themselves a sovereign nation. And this is what the FBI has been focusing their resources on?

3.) I do think shutting down businesses by executive order because they are "non-essential" is a form of tyranny or at least a slippery slope in that direction that we may someday regret heading down.

Yes, it is tyranny.

No, I don't support trying to kidnap her.

Unfortunately it's effectively impossible to do anything about tyrannical elected officials other than to try to out-wait them.

This is another example of why I don't believe in the legitimacy of government.

Of course I realize that they don't care that I don't accept their legitimacy. They have lots of guns and other tools of violence, so I submit to them, just as I would to a gang that had taken over my neighborhood if I couldn't escape.

In fact, it is exactly the same morally as such a gang. The difference is that most people do accept government as legitimate, whereas most people don't accept gangs as legitimate.

Some might say it's not tyranny if the official was duly elected by the populace. When you elect someone you (meaning the voters) are handing them the authority to make decisions in the future.

If you do not approve of those decisions, there are a series of remedies:
1. The court system, if you believe the leader's decisions are illegal.
2. Launch a recall effort and work to recruit the support of your fellow citizens. If your sentiments are widely shared by others, you should be able to find support.
3. Vote the leader out at the end of term, putting your energy into the campaign to support the opponent.

These are the classic remedies that were taught once upon a time in civics. I notice they all require a certain amount of energy and maybe that's the obstacle?

I do not understand in a civilized society how it could be acceptable to substitute these mechanisms with kidnapping or capping the elected leader if one person or a small group is dissatisfied. And I wanted to know if doing so is considered acceptable to others and if it is, I'm starting to think I belong in Canada.
On the other hand, if it's just a fringe attitude held only by extremists, the radicalized, or an ignorant minority, it's a different story.

Probably the best explanation of the real nature of government in general and the Constitution in particular was provided by Lysander Spooner. You can read "No Treason: The Constitution of No Authority", at https://jim.com/treason.htm.

[Kbg]

I like pina coladas and gettin caught in the rain.

[I Shrugged]

Tyrannical governors like Whitmer and Newsom should be prosecuted and sent to prison, not kidnapped and killed by vigilantes.

I agree. How's that working for you in Cali so far?

If our government agencies don't do that, regular citizens and business owners should simply disobey the tyrannical governors' diktats, and rank-and-file law enforcement officers should simply refuse to enforce them.

Here in IL, business owners are starting to openly defy. Pritzker has said he will send the IL State Police in to force shutdown and will also revoke business licenses and liquor licenses. Just like you don't really 'own' your house (you 'rent' it from the county via mandatory taxes you have no control over) you don't actually 'own' your business. You run it at the pleasure of the state and county until they decide to no longer let you do so. Good luck getting the cops on your side. Maybe a few strong red county sheriffs might go that way, but not the whole police at every level.

I'm guessing the bar and restaurant owners have decided they are going out of business anyway, so why not make it into good theater. I support them. They ought to have a toga party. Heck if they get enough press, someone will probably start GoFundMe pages for them.

[WiseOne]

Finally got a chance to catch up with this thread!!

Here's my answers:

Happy:
Working from home
Playing with/snuggling my cats during Zoom meetings
Being able to grocery shop almost at will instead of being limited to weekends/late nights
Being able to enjoy going to restaurants & happy hours with friends again
Getting my slim pre-menopausal figure and energy back thanks to the keto diet
Redoing my kitchen (once it's done....hoping it'll be only another 2-3 weeks)
Making it through summer and into cool fall weather = no more window A/C noise and lazy winter weekend mornings in flannel pjs are the best!
Reaching the magic line of "Financial Independence" - whoo hoo!!!!

Unhappy:
Watching my mother descend rapidly into Alzheimer's while resisting accepting an aide or help running her business
Redoing my kitchen
Being hit constantly with new good-citizen tasks at work that totally overwhelm any hope of my doing actual science
Having to wear a mask even just to go take out the trash

And Cortopassi, your pseudo-hydroponics setup is beautiful!!!! I do the same thing, got food-grade plastic bins on Amazon and a hanging T5 grow light, and grew a ton of greens last winter. I found that soil with regular watering & nutrients worked better than pure hydro though. Monitoring pH and constantly changing heavy containers full of water was too much of a hassle, and the plants did so much better in soil. Goes to show that there really is no substituting for Mother Nature.

[vnatale]

Tyrannical governors like Whitmer and Newsom should be prosecuted and sent to prison, not kidnapped and killed by vigilantes.

I agree. How's that working for you in Cali so far?

If our government agencies don't do that, regular citizens and business owners should simply disobey the tyrannical governors' diktats, and rank-and-file law enforcement officers should simply refuse to enforce them.

Here in IL, business owners are starting to openly defy. Pritzker has said he will send the IL State Police in to force shutdown and will also revoke business licenses and liquor licenses. Just like you don't really 'own' your house (you 'rent' it from the county via mandatory taxes you have no control over) you don't actually 'own' your business. You run it at the pleasure of the state and county until they decide to no longer let you do so. Good luck getting the cops on your side. Maybe a few strong red county sheriffs might go that way, but not the whole police at every level.

Aren't police generally a conservative lot?

Vinny

[vnatale]

Finally got a chance to catch up with this thread!!

Here's my answers:

Happy:
Working from home
Playing with/snuggling my cats during Zoom meetings
Being able to grocery shop almost at will instead of being limited to weekends/late nights
Being able to enjoy going to restaurants & happy hours with friends again
Getting my slim pre-menopausal figure and energy back thanks to the keto diet
Redoing my kitchen (once it's done....hoping it'll be only another 2-3 weeks)
Making it through summer and into cool fall weather = no more window A/C noise and lazy winter weekend mornings in flannel pjs are the best!
Reaching the magic line of "Financial Independence" - whoo hoo!!!!

Unhappy:
Watching my mother descend rapidly into Alzheimer's while resisting accepting an aide or help running her business
Redoing my kitchen
Being hit constantly with new good-citizen tasks at work that totally overwhelm any hope of my doing actual science
Having to wear a mask even just to go take out the trash

And Cortopassi, your pseudo-hydroponics setup is beautiful!!!! I do the same thing, got food-grade plastic bins on Amazon and a hanging T5 grow light, and grew a ton of greens last winter. I found that soil with regular watering & nutrients worked better than pure hydro though. Monitoring pH and constantly changing heavy containers full of water was too much of a hassle, and the plants did so much better in soil. Goes to show that there really is no substituting for Mother Nature.

Any more detail regarding this available from you?

Vinny

[Kbg]

Happy:
Financial independence
Making a lot of progress on my C++ project
No major health problems
Getting along well with my mother and one brother

Unhappy:
My other brother is very difficult to deal with
Waiting for the election to be over
Waiting for my project to be funded
Haven't seen my best friend in person during the covid situation

Techno, any more posts like this and maybe I’ll have to reverse...that or you are a more sophisticated bot.

(On a serious note, sincerely, this post is great. Good to see we are all just humans doing our best with the cards dealt us.)

[Cortopassi]

And Cortopassi, your pseudo-hydroponics setup is beautiful!!!! I do the same thing, got food-grade plastic bins on Amazon and a hanging T5 grow light, and grew a ton of greens last winter. I found that soil with regular watering & nutrients worked better than pure hydro though. Monitoring pH and constantly changing heavy containers full of water was too much of a hassle, and the plants did so much better in soil. Goes to show that there really is no substituting for Mother Nature.

"Pseudo??"

My main setup you see is a flood and drain/ebb and flow system. I have a 13 gallon reservoir with nutrients that pump up once a day into the plastic totes, in which the plants are growing in coco coir. I have the pump and lights on a timer. Makes it brainless. Every ~4 days I need to refill the reservoir a couple gallons, and I do that until I hit ~13 gallons having been replaced, then I flush the reservoir and do a new set of nutrients.

I agree they do better in a growing medium.

My lower setup is a few Mason jars doing Kratky style.

I made a lot of pesto Friday. I never thought I'd say this, but I am kind of sick of it! I froze half this time around.

You can see the piping and reservoir in this pic to the lower right.



Spinach

[WiseOne]

Wow, fancy!!! and, looks fantastic, Cortopassi. You are hereby nominated as the hydroponics master. Sorry, I thought the growing medium was soil.

Changing out the 13 gallon tank....how do you do it? It looks like this is outdoors, so I guess you just dump out the water? I have to carry containers into my bathroom to dump it down the toilet or bathtub. That got old really fast. Also, I found that growing in soil (with a drip watering system run on a timer) made the plants more bug resilient.

I am plagued with fungus gnats, thrips, spider mites and probably a ton of other pests. They must live in the 100 year old walls, and they come in through the leaky windows too from the courtyard outside. I don't even bother trying to grow anything in summer, can really only do it in the winter after the first good hard freeze as the pest populations are less.

[Cortopassi]

Wow, fancy!!! and, looks fantastic, Cortopassi. You are hereby nominated as the hydroponics master. Sorry, I thought the growing medium was soil.

Changing out the 13 gallon tank....how do you do it? It looks like this is outdoors, so I guess you just dump out the water? I have to carry containers into my bathroom to dump it down the toilet or bathtub. That got old really fast. Also, I found that growing in soil (with a drip watering system run on a timer) made the plants more bug resilient.

I am plagued with fungus gnats, thrips, spider mites and probably a ton of other pests. They must live in the 100 year old walls, and they come in through the leaky windows too from the courtyard outside. I don't even bother trying to grow anything in summer, can really only do it in the winter after the first good hard freeze as the pest populations are less.

Thanks! I am all about doing as little manual labor as possible. This is in my basement. See the valving picture below. There is a sump pump right underneath the upward facing "vent" pipe. When I need to dump the water, I shut the valve going to the plants, rotate that vent pipe down, open the valve to that pipe over the sump and turn on the pump and let it drain the reservoir.

I also have a small sink to the right which is not in the picture. I have another set of pipes that has an open end that I can rotate right under the faucet, and the other end in the reservoir, which is how I fill.

Gnats...grrrrr.... I have them, but about 1.5 months ago after reading, I have one of these floating in my reservoir (https://www.amazon.com/Mosquito-Dunks-1 ... B0002ASQ4A). It seems to be doing the job, and is a natural bacteria. I've only seen <10 gnats in the past 3-4 days, the numbers have been dropping. Could be the weather too.

[vnatale]

Wow, fancy!!! and, looks fantastic, Cortopassi. You are hereby nominated as the hydroponics master. Sorry, I thought the growing medium was soil.

Changing out the 13 gallon tank....how do you do it? It looks like this is outdoors, so I guess you just dump out the water? I have to carry containers into my bathroom to dump it down the toilet or bathtub. That got old really fast. Also, I found that growing in soil (with a drip watering system run on a timer) made the plants more bug resilient.

I am plagued with fungus gnats, thrips, spider mites and probably a ton of other pests. They must live in the 100 year old walls, and they come in through the leaky windows too from the courtyard outside. I don't even bother trying to grow anything in summer, can really only do it in the winter after the first good hard freeze as the pest populations are less.

Thanks! I am all about doing as little manual labor as possible. This is in my basement. See the valving picture below. There is a sump pump right underneath the upward facing "vent" pipe. When I need to dump the water, I shut the valve going to the plants, rotate that vent pipe down, open the valve to that pipe over the sump and turn on the pump and let it drain the reservoir.

I also have a small sink to the right which is not in the picture. I have another set of pipes that has an open end that I can rotate right under the faucet, and the other end in the reservoir, which is how I fill.

Gnats...grrrrr.... I have them, but about 1.5 months ago after reading, I have one of these floating in my reservoir (https://www.amazon.com/Mosquito-Dunks-1 ... B0002ASQ4A). It seems to be doing the job, and is a natural bacteria. I've only seen <10 gnats in the past 3-4 days, the numbers have been dropping. Could be the weather too.

What is your basement temperature? Your basement heated?

Vinny

[Cortopassi]

Basement sits a couple degrees cooler than the rest of the house, yes, heated, ~68-70. Perfect for growing.