Why are you afraid of if the “other” party wins?

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tomfoolery
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Re: Why are you afraid of if the “other” party wins?

Post by tomfoolery » Tue Oct 20, 2020 10:58 am

So far, all of the shared fears can be categorized as:

a) things republicans and libertarians fear Biden will do to the country in the form of new laww/regulations

Or

b) things leftists radicals will do to the country in reponse to Trump winning

I haven’t heard the left describe how trump winning will ruin the country, but I have heard the right and center deceive how Biden may ruin the country.

So what is it the left fears? Trump will make a national ban against transgender bathrooms? Trump will ban Muslims from entering the country? Trump will fail to shutdown the country at a federal level and fail to enact a mask mandate at a federal level and leave it up to cities and states as has been the case so far? Trump will continue to allow the NRA to dominate our gun control and the devastating effects of the unchecked 2nd amendment continue to cause our streets to pour blood?
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Re: Why are you afraid of if the “other” party wins?

Post by doodle » Tue Oct 20, 2020 11:10 am

tomfoolery wrote:
Tue Oct 20, 2020 10:58 am
So far, all of the shared fears can be categorized as:

a) things republicans and libertarians fear Biden will do to the country in the form of new laww/regulations

Or

b) things leftists radicals will do to the country in reponse to Trump winning

I haven’t heard the left describe how trump winning will ruin the country, but I have heard the right and center deceive how Biden may ruin the country.

So what is it the left fears? Trump will make a national ban against transgender bathrooms? Trump will ban Muslims from entering the country? Trump will fail to shutdown the country at a federal level and fail to enact a mask mandate at a federal level and leave it up to cities and states as has been the case so far? Trump will continue to allow the NRA to dominate our gun control and the devastating effects of the unchecked 2nd amendment continue to cause our streets to pour blood?
I’m not happy with trumps environmental policies. I want a national healthcare option like every other western industrialized nation. I think his miracle economy is based on shaky ground...huge deficit fueled economic growth unsustainable long term. I don’t trust him at all....I don’t trust narcissistic megalomaniacs in general. I don’t think his vitriolic personality is good for our nation. That being said, I’m not thrilled with democratic leadership either.
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Re: Why are you afraid of if the “other” party wins?

Post by sophie » Tue Oct 20, 2020 11:11 am

Doodle, since your graph clearly shows a steady upward trend far predating 2016, with no increase in the slope after that date, how exactly do you figure this to be due to Trump's "divisiveness"?

We have one element that other countries represented on that graph do not: massive illegal/unskilled immigration and an immigration policy based on the worst kind of nonsense. That will depress wages like nothing else. The purpose of the H1b program, for example, is to hire relatively cheap workers from places like India instead of Americans with equal skills but who would command a higher salary.

Isn't that precisely what Trump has been trying to combat?
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Re: Why are you afraid of if the “other” party wins?

Post by jalanlong » Tue Oct 20, 2020 11:56 am

My biggest fear with a Biden/Harris victory is an escalation of the Covid restrictions. Biden already has a team in place that has been working on a Covid plan to go into effect immediately after he is elected. And a big part of that plan is "One Voice" meaning local regulations will go out the window and we will be in for national mask mandates (even if you live in a town with sparse populations and 0 Covid cases) and constant lockdowns with no articulated end or goal other than to "save lives" and "protect Americans."

I know a lot of people expect the virus to suddenly disappear after Biden wins but I am not that optimistic at all. Given that Covid is the #1 issue among voting Democrats according to polling, I doubt Biden is just going to ignore that once he gets in. And if Fauci becomes a big player in the White House again you can be assured more restrictions are coming.
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Re: Why are you afraid of if the “other” party wins?

Post by pugchief » Tue Oct 20, 2020 11:59 am

doodle wrote:
Tue Oct 20, 2020 10:20 am

As far as policy goes relative to immigration, military excursions, and manufacturing, I side with Trump. As far as the environment, health care I side with the left.

To me the right has overemphasized the individual over collective society...they share a symbiotic relationship and support one another. The left has demphasized personal responsibility which endangers liberties and freedoms.
I agree with this (except while single payer healthcare might be a good idea, I don't believe the government is capable of running it properly).
doodle wrote:
Tue Oct 20, 2020 10:32 am
As far as tax policy goes, I think it’s a poor way to deal with growing wealth gaps. In previous threads I talked about getting labor to organize and negotiate for better pay. This would solve this issue without government involvement. Why people have an issue with labor organizing for better pay and don’t have an issue with incestual nepotistic corporate boards coming up with better and better compensation packages for management is confusing to me.
Because organized labor is not market based and they have also proven time and again that getting rid of non-performing members is next to impossible. I do agree that CEOs are overpaid (as are athletes, movie stars, rock stars, etc), but capitalism pays what the market will bear.
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Re: Why are you afraid of if the “other” party wins?

Post by Tortoise » Tue Oct 20, 2020 12:53 pm

One danger I haven't seen anyone on this thread (or the presidential candidates, for that matter) mention yet is the issue of federal bailouts of various state governments as a result of their destructive Covid-1984 restrictions. We all know that's coming soon.

I suspect both candidates are willing to bail out some states to some extent, but Trump would almost certainly withhold some bailout funds from the blue states with the most oppressive Covid-1984 restrictions and would also attach strings to the funds as a way of incentivizing those states to lift their restrictions sooner. I don't know that for sure, but it seems like something Trump might do.

Biden, by contrast, would be more likely to fully bail out every state, which would effectively be a transfer of wealth to blue states that did the most damage to their economies through Covid-1984 restrictions. That would be unfair to the other states and would introduce moral hazard.
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Re: Why are you afraid of if the “other” party wins?

Post by vnatale » Tue Oct 20, 2020 1:05 pm

We'd be going through another four years of the same someone with no qualifications, character, skills for being president.

We well MAY be the greatest country in the world. But the rest of the world cannot believe that a company so great is reduced to putting such a person as president.

Vinny
"I only regret that I have but one lap to give to my cats."
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Re: Why are you afraid of if the “other” party wins?

Post by glennds » Tue Oct 20, 2020 1:08 pm

Mountaineer wrote:
Tue Oct 20, 2020 7:24 am
I’m with Winston Churchill on this one. 8)
You have nothing to give but blood, sweat, toil and tears?
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Re: Why are you afraid of if the “other” party wins?

Post by Mountaineer » Tue Oct 20, 2020 1:13 pm

glennds wrote:
Tue Oct 20, 2020 1:08 pm
Mountaineer wrote:
Tue Oct 20, 2020 7:24 am
I’m with Winston Churchill on this one. 8)
You have nothing to give but blood, sweat, toil and tears?
Not bad, not bad at all! 8) I am now thinking too of FDR, "the only thing we have to fear is fear itself".
“He who denies the existence of God, has some reason for wishing that God did not exist.” — Augustine Of Hippo
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Re: Why are you afraid of if the “other” party wins?

Post by vnatale » Tue Oct 20, 2020 1:22 pm

Mountaineer wrote:
Tue Oct 20, 2020 1:13 pm
glennds wrote:
Tue Oct 20, 2020 1:08 pm
Mountaineer wrote:
Tue Oct 20, 2020 7:24 am
I’m with Winston Churchill on this one. 8)
You have nothing to give but blood, sweat, toil and tears?
Not bad, not bad at all! 8) I am now thinking too of FDR, "the only thing we have to fear is fear itself".
And, all this time I thought that THIS was the Churchill quote you had in mind!

"It has been said that democracy is the worst form of government except all the others that have been tried."

Vinny
"I only regret that I have but one lap to give to my cats."
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Re: Why are you afraid of if the “other” party wins?

Post by glennds » Tue Oct 20, 2020 1:47 pm

vnatale wrote:
Tue Oct 20, 2020 1:22 pm
Mountaineer wrote:
Tue Oct 20, 2020 1:13 pm
glennds wrote:
Tue Oct 20, 2020 1:08 pm
Mountaineer wrote:
Tue Oct 20, 2020 7:24 am
I’m with Winston Churchill on this one. 8)
You have nothing to give but blood, sweat, toil and tears?
Not bad, not bad at all! 8) I am now thinking too of FDR, "the only thing we have to fear is fear itself".
And, all this time I thought that THIS was the Churchill quote you had in mind!

"It has been said that democracy is the worst form of government except all the others that have been tried."

Vinny
Then there's also "Americans can always be trusted to do the right thing, after all other possibilities have been exhausted"

I always liked - "The best argument against Democracy is a five-minute conversation with the average voter"
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Re: Why are you afraid of if the “other” party wins?

Post by glennds » Tue Oct 20, 2020 1:51 pm

sophie wrote:
Tue Oct 20, 2020 10:11 am

PP4ME I hope you're right. Here's what I would fear the most...it's a long list.

Permanent national lockdown and mask mandate i.e. with no clearly articulated endpoint. Economy goes into the crapper as a result and we end up with a deep, long, nasty depression, sky high unemployment, and evisceration of small businesses and the restaurant/entertainment industry.

Assuming we agree that all politicians and political parties are self interested, then what is the incentive for Biden or the Democrats to effect a permanent national lockdown? What do they gain from it?

For clarification, I'm not necessarily disputing that a permanent national lockdown is their objective, I'm trying to properly understand WHY it would be their objective.
Last edited by glennds on Tue Oct 20, 2020 2:00 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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