Trump has Covid-19

[doodle]

Guys,

1) I totally agree that other factors, at least later in the lockdown cycles, could be adding deaths from stress, etc. But if you also don't believe in even that first hump (peaking in April) of excess deaths being attributable mainly to Covid or with Covid, we obviously will never agree.

2) I thought yesterday I was the only one who noticed this. Hey, I give him props for doing what he did, but there were some obvious I'm not getting enough air winces.

https://www.businessinsider.com/video-t ... se-2020-10

The thing I don't understand is that they deny the experiences of the medical staff on the frontlines standing by helpless as patient after patient died. Exhausted doctors and nurses putting themselves in harm's way for days long shifts without sleep as the anti-government critics sit back in their living room munching cheetos complaining how they have to wear a mask to buy groceries. I just don't get it.

doodle, I don't either. Apparently all those images, esp. from New York, are easily/conveniently forgotten. Regardless of a person's thinking of the root cause, a bunch of extra deaths occurred. As we go further into this I am sure many continue to be caused by stressors of various types.

And the government, both sides, still can't reach a deal to continue assistance to those that need it.

Listen to the people at ground zero. If you want to know how a company is doing I'd probably want to interview a bunch of workers rather than listen to the CEO. Same goes for war, talk to the soldiers, not the general. In this case, they believe every word Trump says (who has a massive conflict of interest for telling the truth) and deny the people working in the middle of everything. I mean, as conspiracy theorists distrusting of government and power, you'd think the right wouldn't believe anyone in the upper echelons of power, yet they hang on every word of Trump's like it was etched into stone by God himself.

[Cortopassi]

yet they hang on every word of Trump's like it was etched into stone by God himself.

It does seem religious to many. From outside Walter Reed:

"The electricity of the crowd was captured in a Twitter video in which a supporter could be heard shouting: 'God bless our president, I will die for him!' "

[doodle]

yet they hang on every word of Trump's like it was etched into stone by God himself.

It does seem religious to many. From outside Walter Reed:

"The electricity of the crowd was captured in a Twitter video in which a supporter could be heard shouting: 'God bless our president, I will die for him!' "

Lol, Trump just eats that shit up. I would be terrified if someone said that about me. I'm waaayy too stupid and useless for anyone to die over.

[Tortoise]

1) I totally agree that other factors, at least later in the lockdown cycles, could be adding deaths from stress, etc. But if you also don't believe in even that first hump (peaking in April) of excess deaths being attributable mainly to Covid or with Covid, we obviously will never agree.

I agree that a large portion of the deaths in the first hump in April were likely due to SARS-CoV-2 since it's not yet endemic in our population like the flu and the common cold are. So there's initially more "dry tinder" for it to burn through. But that doesn't necessarily mean it's inherently more deadly than the flu or the common cold -- which is what a lot of health officials have been claiming or implying for months.

Maybe I didn't make my original point sufficiently clear. What I'm trying to point out is that we've been doing something unprecedented this year: Testing a huge fraction of the population, including almost all hospitalized and dying people, for a single virus and not testing them for any other viruses. We've made the mistaken assumptions that (1) mere presence of SARS-CoV-2 in a hospitalized or dying person means their hospitalization or death is "caused by" that virus, and (2) the potential presence of other viruses in those people is irrelevant, and only the presence of SARS-CoV-2 matters.

We've made this pandemic much worse, much more complicated, and much more drawn out than necessary. Close to 50% of the Covid deaths have occurred in the 0.6% of our population that lives in nursing homes. For almost everyone else, the virus is a nothingburger. If we had simply isolated and protected nursing homes and immunocompromised people for a couple of months while letting everyone else get on with their normal lives, we could have achieved herd immunity long ago and been done with it. We can still choose to take that approach, but for some reason our leaders and health officials refuse to.

Trump is playing up his weekend bout with the sniffles to make it look like he struggled with the Grim Reaper and survived, which is hilarious. But I have to hand it to him -- it's a smart political move, and it will help him win reelection. Aside from that, I think Trump is doing the right thing by telling Americans that most of them don't need to be so scared of Cooties-19. It's the plain truth. He's addressing people's psychology now, because at this point our national overreaction is largely rooted in psychology.

[Cortopassi]

1) I totally agree that other factors, at least later in the lockdown cycles, could be adding deaths from stress, etc. But if you also don't believe in even that first hump (peaking in April) of excess deaths being attributable mainly to Covid or with Covid, we obviously will never agree.

I agree that a large portion of the deaths in the first hump in April were likely due to SARS-CoV-2 since it's not yet endemic in our population like the flu and the common cold are. So there's initially more "dry tinder" for it to burn through. But that doesn't necessarily mean it's inherently more deadly than the flu or the common cold -- which is what a lot of health officials have been claiming or implying for months.

Maybe I didn't make my original point sufficiently clear. What I'm trying to point out is that we've been doing something unprecedented this year: Testing a huge fraction of the population, including almost all hospitalized and dying people, for a single virus and not testing them for any other viruses. We've made the mistaken assumptions that (1) mere presence of SARS-CoV-2 in a hospitalized or dying person means their hospitalization or death is "caused by" that virus, and (2) the potential presence of other viruses in those people is irrelevant, and only the presence of SARS-CoV-2 matters.

We've made this pandemic much worse, much more complicated, and much more drawn out than necessary. Close to 50% of the Covid deaths have occurred in the 0.6% of our population that lives in nursing homes. For almost everyone else, the virus is a nothingburger. If we had simply isolated and protected nursing homes and immunocompromised people for a couple of months while letting everyone else get on with their normal lives, we could have achieved herd immunity long ago and been done with it. We can still choose to take that approach, but for some reason our leaders and health officials refuse to.

Trump is playing up his weekend bout with the sniffles to make it look like he struggled with the Grim Reaper and survived, which is hilarious. But I have to hand it to him -- it's a smart political move, and it will help him win reelection. Aside from that, I think Trump is doing the right thing by telling Americans that most of them don't need to be so scared of Cooties-19. It's the plain truth. He's addressing people's psychology now, because at this point our national overreaction is largely rooted in psychology.

I can agree with what you've said.

I think some has to do with we've become too knowledgeable about viruses (or we think we are) and how they work and how to control them and how to stop them, but the knowledge is nowhere near complete enough to squash them quickly, like you might see in a sci-fi movie.

So what might have been a worse death "flu" year 50 years ago and probably shrugged off with a what can we do attitude, now we think we can save people with all the lockdowns and limits and we are finding we have a lot less control than we think we do.

50 years from now, I imagine we might have to ability to synthesize and start distributing a vaccine in 48 hours.

I think the major disconnect which will never be resolved is where would the US stand right now if we did not modify our behavior at all. I don't know where people would fall on that. If the results would be 2 million dead vs 200k, I think people would mainly support what was done. If it would have been 250k dead vs 200k, not sure.

[vnatale]

1) I totally agree that other factors, at least later in the lockdown cycles, could be adding deaths from stress, etc. But if you also don't believe in even that first hump (peaking in April) of excess deaths being attributable mainly to Covid or with Covid, we obviously will never agree.

I agree that a large portion of the deaths in the first hump in April were likely due to SARS-CoV-2 since it's not yet endemic in our population like the flu and the common cold are. So there's initially more "dry tinder" for it to burn through. But that doesn't necessarily mean it's inherently more deadly than the flu or the common cold -- which is what a lot of health officials have been claiming or implying for months.

Maybe I didn't make my original point sufficiently clear. What I'm trying to point out is that we've been doing something unprecedented this year: Testing a huge fraction of the population, including almost all hospitalized and dying people, for a single virus and not testing them for any other viruses. We've made the mistaken assumptions that (1) mere presence of SARS-CoV-2 in a hospitalized or dying person means their hospitalization or death is "caused by" that virus, and (2) the potential presence of other viruses in those people is irrelevant, and only the presence of SARS-CoV-2 matters.

We've made this pandemic much worse, much more complicated, and much more drawn out than necessary. Close to 50% of the Covid deaths have occurred in the 0.6% of our population that lives in nursing homes. For almost everyone else, the virus is a nothingburger. If we had simply isolated and protected nursing homes and immunocompromised people for a couple of months while letting everyone else get on with their normal lives, we could have achieved herd immunity long ago and been done with it. We can still choose to take that approach, but for some reason our leaders and health officials refuse to.

Trump is playing up his weekend bout with the sniffles to make it look like he struggled with the Grim Reaper and survived, which is hilarious. But I have to hand it to him -- it's a smart political move, and it will help him win reelection. Aside from that, I think Trump is doing the right thing by telling Americans that most of them don't need to be so scared of Cooties-19. It's the plain truth. He's addressing people's psychology now, because at this point our national overreaction is largely rooted in psychology.

I can agree with what you've said.

I think some has to do with we've become too knowledgeable about viruses (or we think we are) and how they work and how to control them and how to stop them, but the knowledge is nowhere near complete enough to squash them quickly, like you might see in a sci-fi movie.

So what might have been a worse death "flu" year 50 years ago and probably shrugged off with a what can we do attitude, now we think we can save people with all the lockdowns and limits and we are finding we have a lot less control than we think we do.

50 years from now, I imagine we might have to ability to synthesize and start distributing a vaccine in 48 hours.

I think the major disconnect which will never be resolved is where would the US stand right now if we did not modify our behavior at all. I don't know where people would fall on that. If the results would be 2 million dead vs 200k, I think people would mainly support what was done. If it would have been 250k dead vs 200k, not sure.

Hasn't Trump many times stated that he gives himself for "A" for how he has handled the virus because it saved 2,000,000 from dying?

Vinny

[Tortoise]

I think the major disconnect which will never be resolved is where would the US stand right now if we did not modify our behavior at all. I don't know where people would fall on that. If the results would be 2 million dead vs 200k, I think people would mainly support what was done. If it would have been 250k dead vs 200k, not sure.

Hasn't Trump many times stated that he gives himself for "A" for how he has handled the virus because it saved 2,000,000 from dying?

Yes. Trump has been giving the nation mixed messages about Covid for many months. I agree with Scott Adams in giving Trump a grade of "F" in the category of Covid communication.

And yet he's still the infinitely preferable choice over the Democrats in this election. That's how unhinged and insane the left has become in recent years.

[Cortopassi]

Yeah, that's the problem. All those numbers are mainly incorrect math models. Has any model anywhere even come close?

Biden and Trump can claim whatever they want because the numbers can never be proven.

A few humble "We are doing what we think is right but we really don't know and things may change" statements could have gone a long way.

[WiseOne]

I think the major disconnect which will never be resolved is where would the US stand right now if we did not modify our behavior at all. I don't know where people would fall on that. If the results would be 2 million dead vs 200k, I think people would mainly support what was done. If it would have been 250k dead vs 200k, not sure.

Poor Tortoise is saying some very important and sane things over and over, and no one is listening...Tortoise you're 100% correct!!

As for Cortopassi's question, we don't really know the answer because of course people are going to modify behavior on their own. But you can look at countries that went the minimalist route in response to the pandemic, namely Sweden. Compare the shape of their curve to New York City's which of course had one of the more extreme lockdowns:

https://www.worldometers.info/coronavir ... ry/sweden/

https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/usa/new-york/

Looks pretty similar, doesn't it?

There is an increase in cases recently in both, which is probably in lock step with the seasonal rise of the flu. If you scroll down to the graph that shows #deaths, though, you'll see that these haven't budged, again in both locations. Also, Sweden's deaths were dropping fast even while they were in the middle of their big second peak. That suggests these were cases in younger/healthier people. That differs from New York. That would mean that Sweden is closer to having full herd immunity than NYC is. That's probably the main effect of the lockdown, to prevent infection in exactly the people who are most able to get through it unscathed and contribute to herd immunity. Wonderful.

What people don't understand is that the virus is going to spread regardless of what we do. We are all going to get exposed to it eventually. I guess the bet was that we could minimize the spread until Mr. Vaccine comes along to save the day, but even Fauci is now acknowledging that this is a pipe dream.

[Tortoise]

Trump rising again on the third day just as the prophecies foretold



https://twitter.com/smubpublius/status/ ... 55488?s=20

[flyingpylon]

A few humble "We are doing what we think is right but we really don't know and things may change" statements could have gone a long way.

Do you honestly believe that "the media" and Trump's wide variety of political opponents (not to mention yourself) would have accepted anything remotely resembling that?

[Cortopassi]

A few humble "We are doing what we think is right but we really don't know and things may change" statements could have gone a long way.

Do you honestly believe that "the media" and Trump's wide variety of political opponents (not to mention yourself) would have accepted anything remotely resembling that?

Not after 3 years of what's been going on. If it happened in Feb 2017, possibly.

[Kriegsspiel]

Trump rising again on the third day just as the prophecies foretold

[WiseOne]

Tomfoolery your posts are hilarious. Maybe you and Smith1776 could get together to do some standup.

[vnatale]

https://babylonbee.com/news/party-that- ... ent-to-die

Silly article.

I did not see any quotes from any official Democrat supporting the article's headline, did you?

[I Shrugged]

Can you imagine what it's going to be like during the upcoming Hanging Chad season?
<shudder>

[vnatale]

https://babylonbee.com/news/party-that- ... ent-to-die

Silly article.

I did not see any quotes from any official Democrat supporting the article's headline, did you?

Vinny

OMG, you do realize that the Babylon Bee is a satire site?

Not at all! The article read almost exactly word for word which I have read some Trump supporters write here (with no attempt to be satirical). Written by "true believers" in The Almighty Trump!

For the record, first time I'd ever been to that web site.

[Mountaineer]

https://babylonbee.com/news/party-that- ... ent-to-die

Silly article.

I did not see any quotes from any official Democrat supporting the article's headline, did you?

Vinny

OMG, you do realize that the Babylon Bee is a satire site?

Not at all! The article read almost exactly word for word which I have read some Trump supporters write here (with no attempt to be satirical). Written by "true believers" in The Almighty Trump!

For the record, first time I'd ever been to that web site.

Vinny

Vinny, there are a few posters here who also write satire to make a point. Look at the other (besides politics) articles at the Babylon Bee. They are frequently a hoot! Best wishes as you expand your horizons. Now back to reality, I'm going to go watch the morning News on CNN or MSNBC so I can find out what is really important and what is really happening.

[vnatale]

https://babylonbee.com/news/party-that- ... ent-to-die

Silly article.

I did not see any quotes from any official Democrat supporting the article's headline, did you?

Vinny

OMG, you do realize that the Babylon Bee is a satire site?

Not at all! The article read almost exactly word for word which I have read some Trump supporters write here (with no attempt to be satirical). Written by "true believers" in The Almighty Trump!

For the record, first time I'd ever been to that web site.

Vinny

Vinny, there are a few posters here who also write satire to make a point. Look at the other (besides politics) articles at the Babylon Bee. They are frequently a hoot! Best wishes as you expand your horizons. Now back to reality, I'm going to go watch the morning News on CNN or MSNBC so I can find out what is really important and what is really happening.

I know who is writing satire here. Quite obvious. However, it is also quite obvious when some are NOT writing satire yet it is almost identical to that article.

[I Shrugged]

Heck, that article almost isn't satire!
The left did mock the deaths of Robert Trump and Herman Cain.
But when an ISIS leader was killed, the Washington Post described him as an austere religious scholar.

TDS knows no bounds.

[Cortopassi]

Heck, that article almost isn't satire!
The left did mock the deaths of Robert Trump and Herman Cain.
But when an ISIS leader was killed, the Washington Post described him as an austere religious scholar.

TDS knows no bounds.

I will have to use tech's standard response:

Can you ID mainstream sources of the left mocking? My left news source, CNN, had nice articles on both passing, with only one potentially "negative" note showing Cain at a rally maskless.

https://www.cnn.com/2020/08/15/politics ... index.html
https://www.cnn.com/2020/07/30/politics ... index.html

And not some BS internet only far left website.

[I Shrugged]

Short answer, yes. Long answer, it's too much work. Maybe someone here will do it for us.
I do recall that #wrongtrump was big on twitter when his brother died. And WaPo had some disrespectful although factual headline.

[I Shrugged]

OK, not too hard.
https://www.ccn.com/herman-cain-death-d ... -response/

[doodle]

OK, not too hard.
https://www.ccn.com/herman-cain-death-d ... -response/

The carribbean communications network? Who is that?

[I Shrugged]

OK, not too hard.
https://www.ccn.com/herman-cain-death-d ... -response/

The carribbean communications network? Who is that?

Sorry, I thought it said CNN. I really did!