Trump has Covid-19

Other discussions not related to the Permanent Portfolio

Moderator: Global Moderator

User avatar
Tortoise
Executive Member
Executive Member
Posts: 2751
Joined: Sat Nov 06, 2010 2:35 am

Re: Trump has Covid-19

Post by Tortoise » Mon Oct 05, 2020 2:29 pm

Libertarian666 wrote:
Mon Oct 05, 2020 2:07 pm
2. Most if not all of the Democrat states have exceptions for "peaceful protests". That's what his rallies are.
It really is a thing of beauty when a hypocritical rule is used effectively against the people who imposed it.
User avatar
Mountaineer
Executive Member
Executive Member
Posts: 4959
Joined: Tue Feb 07, 2012 10:54 am

Re: Trump has Covid-19

Post by Mountaineer » Mon Oct 05, 2020 2:41 pm

I feel saddened by the 200k+ who died from Covid 19 this year. I also feel saddened by the hundreds of thousands of babies that have been aborted this year in the US, and the greater number worldwide. I wonder if any of the mangled body parts were tested for Covid, especially the ones that are being sold? Where does baby’s choice stack up in the progressive list of LGBTQ, transgender, women’s, animal, environmental, etc. rights? I get so confused.
DNA has its own language (code), and language requires intelligence. There is no known mechanism by which matter can give birth to information, let alone language. It is unreasonable to believe the world could have happened by chance.
User avatar
Tortoise
Executive Member
Executive Member
Posts: 2751
Joined: Sat Nov 06, 2010 2:35 am

Re: Trump has Covid-19

Post by Tortoise » Mon Oct 05, 2020 2:46 pm

Mountaineer wrote:
Mon Oct 05, 2020 2:41 pm
I feel saddened by the 200k+ who died from with Covid 19 this year.
Fixed that for you.
User avatar
Cortopassi
Executive Member
Executive Member
Posts: 3338
Joined: Mon Feb 24, 2014 2:28 pm
Location: https://www.jwst.nasa.gov/content/webbL ... sWebb.html

Re: Trump has Covid-19

Post by Cortopassi » Mon Oct 05, 2020 3:07 pm

Image
User avatar
doodle
Executive Member
Executive Member
Posts: 4658
Joined: Fri Feb 11, 2011 2:17 pm

Re: Trump has Covid-19

Post by doodle » Mon Oct 05, 2020 3:07 pm

Mountaineer wrote:
Mon Oct 05, 2020 2:41 pm
I feel saddened by the 200k+ who died from Covid 19 this year. I also feel saddened by the hundreds of thousands of babies that have been aborted this year in the US, and the greater number worldwide. I wonder if any of the mangled body parts were tested for Covid, especially the ones that are being sold? Where does baby’s choice stack up in the progressive list of LGBTQ, transgender, women’s, animal, environmental, etc. rights? I get so confused.
You mean like the embryonic stem cells used to develop the drugs Trump took?

Mangled body parts? Third trimester abortions are because of severe medical complications on the part of mother or fetus.

Besides, what does any of that have to do with a president whose elite medical treatment puts him on a different playing field than his peasant subjects? Way to deflect. Is your line of logic to use one suppose d wrong to justify another?
User avatar
doodle
Executive Member
Executive Member
Posts: 4658
Joined: Fri Feb 11, 2011 2:17 pm

Re: Trump has Covid-19

Post by doodle » Mon Oct 05, 2020 3:13 pm

Tortoise wrote:
Mon Oct 05, 2020 2:46 pm
Mountaineer wrote:
Mon Oct 05, 2020 2:41 pm
I feel saddened by the 200k+ who died from with Covid 19 this year.
Fixed that for you.
That's a disingenuous argument. I understand human mortality and that many of these individuals had preexisting conditions. The shitty health stats in our country is a disgrace. The health care system by and large is a travesty considering we pay twice as much as any other Western industrialized nation. None of that excuses the haphazard and incompetent approach taken by the administration. Shit happens, I get it. Lots beyond anyone's control. However, the leadership during this time has been awful.
User avatar
Cortopassi
Executive Member
Executive Member
Posts: 3338
Joined: Mon Feb 24, 2014 2:28 pm
Location: https://www.jwst.nasa.gov/content/webbL ... sWebb.html

Re: Trump has Covid-19

Post by Cortopassi » Mon Oct 05, 2020 3:15 pm

Well, we know what the strategy is going to be for the next 29 days.

Image
User avatar
Tortoise
Executive Member
Executive Member
Posts: 2751
Joined: Sat Nov 06, 2010 2:35 am

Re: Trump has Covid-19

Post by Tortoise » Mon Oct 05, 2020 3:25 pm

doodle wrote:
Mon Oct 05, 2020 3:13 pm
Tortoise wrote:
Mon Oct 05, 2020 2:46 pm
Mountaineer wrote:
Mon Oct 05, 2020 2:41 pm
I feel saddened by the 200k+ who died from with Covid 19 this year.
Fixed that for you.
That's a disingenuous argument. I understand human mortality and that many of these individuals had preexisting conditions. [...]
That's certainly part of it. But let's also perform a simple thought experiment.

The common cold is endemic in our population, right? Over 200 virus strains cause the common cold (and some of them are coronaviruses, incidentally). Of the 200,000+ Americans who died with SARS-CoV-2 (meaning they happened to test positive for it around the same time that they died for any reason whatsoever), how many of them were also tested for any one of those 200 common cold viruses?

If we had tested almost every American who died this year not only for SARS-CoV-2 but also for every single one of those 200 common cold viruses, how many of them likely would have tested positive not only for SARS-CoV-2 but also for at least one of those 200 other viruses? Remember, those other 200 viruses are endemic.

If you look for something everywhere, you tend to find it. Conversely, if you don't look for something everywhere, you tend to find much less of it.
User avatar
Mountaineer
Executive Member
Executive Member
Posts: 4959
Joined: Tue Feb 07, 2012 10:54 am

Re: Trump has Covid-19

Post by Mountaineer » Mon Oct 05, 2020 3:29 pm

Doodle - I understand, I feel your pain. It is 150% Trump’s fault. Yes, I know 100% is all it can be for those who are fact driven, but in this case it is totally different and true (source - MSM and TDS sufferers). Carry on, to those who have to use profanity to adequately present a case. ::)
DNA has its own language (code), and language requires intelligence. There is no known mechanism by which matter can give birth to information, let alone language. It is unreasonable to believe the world could have happened by chance.
User avatar
Mountaineer
Executive Member
Executive Member
Posts: 4959
Joined: Tue Feb 07, 2012 10:54 am

Re: Trump has Covid-19

Post by Mountaineer » Mon Oct 05, 2020 3:32 pm

Tortoise wrote:
Mon Oct 05, 2020 2:46 pm
Mountaineer wrote:
Mon Oct 05, 2020 2:41 pm
I feel saddened by the 200k+ who died from with Covid 19 this year.
Fixed that for you.
Thank you! My error. O0
DNA has its own language (code), and language requires intelligence. There is no known mechanism by which matter can give birth to information, let alone language. It is unreasonable to believe the world could have happened by chance.
User avatar
Mountaineer
Executive Member
Executive Member
Posts: 4959
Joined: Tue Feb 07, 2012 10:54 am

Re: Trump has Covid-19

Post by Mountaineer » Mon Oct 05, 2020 3:36 pm

doodle wrote:
Mon Oct 05, 2020 3:07 pm
Mountaineer wrote:
Mon Oct 05, 2020 2:41 pm
I feel saddened by the 200k+ who died from Covid 19 this year. I also feel saddened by the hundreds of thousands of babies that have been aborted this year in the US, and the greater number worldwide. I wonder if any of the mangled body parts were tested for Covid, especially the ones that are being sold? Where does baby’s choice stack up in the progressive list of LGBTQ, transgender, women’s, animal, environmental, etc. rights? I get so confused.
You mean like the embryonic stem cells used to develop the drugs Trump took?

Mangled body parts? Third trimester abortions are because of severe medical complications on the part of mother or fetus.

Besides, what does any of that have to do with a president whose elite medical treatment puts him on a different playing field than his peasant subjects? Way to deflect. Is your line of logic to use one suppose d wrong to justify another?
Hmmmm, I must have missed the part where I endorsed using murdered baby body parts for research. Not. ::)
DNA has its own language (code), and language requires intelligence. There is no known mechanism by which matter can give birth to information, let alone language. It is unreasonable to believe the world could have happened by chance.
User avatar
I Shrugged
Executive Member
Executive Member
Posts: 2062
Joined: Tue Dec 18, 2012 6:35 pm

Re: Trump has Covid-19

Post by I Shrugged » Mon Oct 05, 2020 4:30 pm

I think I was having a disagreement with doodle. Oh well, I must have lost. I can't keep these threads straight anyway.

I think there are a handful of us here who enjoy watching what Trump does to the left. But there is a part me saying be careful what I wish for, because it's possible we ain't seen nothing yet from the left. In my memory the left has never taken electoral losses graciously. Start with the Robert Bork nomination and go from there. The left doesn't really believe in elections or constitutions. They believe in imposing their will by any means.

Trump has been the match that lit the fuse. Now we see what the left is. I can add that to my list of his accomplishments. The next 4 years will be very interesting, either way.
User avatar
Mountaineer
Executive Member
Executive Member
Posts: 4959
Joined: Tue Feb 07, 2012 10:54 am

Re: Trump has Covid-19

Post by Mountaineer » Mon Oct 05, 2020 4:53 pm

Cortopassi wrote:
Mon Oct 05, 2020 1:56 pm
Mountaineer wrote:
Mon Oct 05, 2020 12:44 pm
Cortopassi wrote:
Mon Oct 05, 2020 11:35 am
I was exposed to a coworker on Thursday who got tested positive on Fri after experiencing symptoms.

Was able to snag a rapid test this morning, tested negative.

If anyone has had to go through this, it is anxiety producing, more for the searching for testing, most of which is completely booked, and ones that aren't are standard 4-7 days before results. To get the rapid test, I had to be on the clinic's website at 12AM, like freaking Ticketmaster, and quickly get a spot (8:15 this morning). After the two minutes it took to register, the next open spot was already 4PM.
--------------------------
Corto, really sorry to hear of your exposure, don't want this to be a downer, but my daughter is a nurse and works assessing Covid patients, etc. According to their medical info, you likely would not test positive for 5 to 7 days after exposure. If you choose to believe that, you may wish to get tested again toward the end of this week. Best wishes.

My wife and I had a similar "probable exposure" a few months ago. We self-quarantined, got a saliva test at a drive-through site about a week later (took about 10 minutes from driving in to driving out, did not have to leave our vehicle), results came back negative. Results came the next day after the test.
Thanks. I asked that specific question, and I don't know if it is the test itself driving, or some understanding that's different now, but I was told 3-5 days is currently what is needed, and I was at 4 and the doc said that was perfect.
I just talked with my daughter (WA state). Her latest guidance - if you’ve been around someone who tested positive, quarantine for 14 days. She has seen people who got sick at 14 days after exposure, and people who got sick at 4 or 5 days. Pay your money and take your chances. Confusing to say the least. Good luck!
DNA has its own language (code), and language requires intelligence. There is no known mechanism by which matter can give birth to information, let alone language. It is unreasonable to believe the world could have happened by chance.
User avatar
vnatale
Executive Member
Executive Member
Posts: 9423
Joined: Fri Apr 12, 2019 8:56 pm
Location: Massachusetts
Contact:

Re: Trump has Covid-19

Post by vnatale » Mon Oct 05, 2020 5:15 pm

Cortopassi wrote:
Mon Oct 05, 2020 12:01 pm
tomfoolery wrote:
Mon Oct 05, 2020 11:49 am
Cortopassi wrote:
Mon Oct 05, 2020 11:35 am
At minimum, he caused 14 day quarantines for the two agents. What a douche.
At my age and health, which is likely similar to that of the median secret service agent, my covid death rate is close to 0.001%

I either already got covid and beat it without any symptoms, or I will get covid and beat it with zero to mild symptoms.

There’s no chance I did not get exposed to covid or will not get exposed at some point.

If my boss wanted to expose me to low dose of covid by wearing a mask around me as I wear a mask in a custom car with what is probably a $500k custom ventilation and air purification system, and then give me 2 weeks of paid vacation, then he is not being a douche, I would say Christmas came early.

How about all of the doctors and nurses taking care of Trump or taking care of any covid patient? Do they have to quarantine for 14 days after? Have bedsides nurses around the country been quarantining for 8 months?

I work in healthcare and my experience is 30%+ of patients admitted to hospitals now are covid positive. They might be there for something else, but also have covid. And the medical staff doesn’t even have N95s, they are using surgical masks which provide virtually zero protection to themselves.

Hospitals generally have only a few true isolation rooms with negative pressure airflow. Maybe 1% of the beds in the hospital. But 30%+ have covid.

Are all of the patients going to the hospital also douches for exposing hospital employees to covid at their job?
I understand they will need to quarantine for 14 days. Is that correct or not? If not, my bad. I assume doctors/nursed in full PPE are excluded.

If yes, whether you think that is right or wrong is immaterial. For his photo op, he has messed with two families. Possibly kids who cannot hug their Dad for 14 days. An agent who has a toddler he can't tuck into bed. An agent who has sick parents he can't visit, etc.

Trump thinks of NO ONE but himself.

Tyler: Could be, I am speculating, yes. If they are already quarantined because of that, I guess this would just extend it.

This is my source: https://www.cnn.com/2020/10/05/politics ... index.html

Yes, I know, CNN.
By the way, in an excellent book I started reading this afternoon - The Political Brain - it told me that in the weeks leading up to the 2004 election that CNN took a hard right turn because that is where the appetite of the country was at that time.

I would not have noticed because then I had no major media exposure to news. The only thing that has changed for me since that is that in addition to my C-Span habit then and now is that I now listen to each of the five Sunday news shows (usually twice).

Vinny
Above provided by: Vinny, who always says: "I only regret that I have but one lap to give to my cats." AND "I'm a more-is-more person."
User avatar
Mountaineer
Executive Member
Executive Member
Posts: 4959
Joined: Tue Feb 07, 2012 10:54 am

Re: Trump has Covid-19

Post by Mountaineer » Mon Oct 05, 2020 5:21 pm

vnatale wrote:
Mon Oct 05, 2020 5:15 pm
The only thing that has changed for me since that is that in addition to my C-Span habit then and now is that I now listen to each of the five Sunday news shows (usually twice).

Vinny
I have to ask. What do you do with the information? How does it change your life?
DNA has its own language (code), and language requires intelligence. There is no known mechanism by which matter can give birth to information, let alone language. It is unreasonable to believe the world could have happened by chance.
User avatar
vnatale
Executive Member
Executive Member
Posts: 9423
Joined: Fri Apr 12, 2019 8:56 pm
Location: Massachusetts
Contact:

Re: Trump has Covid-19

Post by vnatale » Mon Oct 05, 2020 5:28 pm

Mountaineer wrote:
Mon Oct 05, 2020 5:21 pm
vnatale wrote:
Mon Oct 05, 2020 5:15 pm
The only thing that has changed for me since that is that in addition to my C-Span habit then and now is that I now listen to each of the five Sunday news shows (usually twice).

Vinny
I have to ask. What do you do with the information? How does it change your life?
It's a combination of entertainment and intellectual stimulation.

C-Span radio plays them all at noon on Sundays then at midnight. When I had my first portable XM satellite radio I'd program it record all of them. And, then I'd listen to them at any spare moment, like when in the library selecting CDs to borrow. In the car. And, I distinctly remember telling my friend that being able to able listen to them while food shopping (not something I enjoy and which I try to get over I try to get done as quickly as possible) I was now "floating" around the store as I was getting all this mind stimulation while doing this mundane food shopping.

Does everything you do change your life?

By the way I now listen to them any time I want via iTunes.

Vinny
Above provided by: Vinny, who always says: "I only regret that I have but one lap to give to my cats." AND "I'm a more-is-more person."
User avatar
Mountaineer
Executive Member
Executive Member
Posts: 4959
Joined: Tue Feb 07, 2012 10:54 am

Re: Trump has Covid-19

Post by Mountaineer » Mon Oct 05, 2020 5:42 pm

Cool. Thanks for responding.
DNA has its own language (code), and language requires intelligence. There is no known mechanism by which matter can give birth to information, let alone language. It is unreasonable to believe the world could have happened by chance.
User avatar
vnatale
Executive Member
Executive Member
Posts: 9423
Joined: Fri Apr 12, 2019 8:56 pm
Location: Massachusetts
Contact:

Re: Trump has Covid-19

Post by vnatale » Mon Oct 05, 2020 6:51 pm

A visual guide to President Donald Trump's COVID-19 treatment

Experimental drugs, conflicting accounts, and a controversial drive by. We break down the unfolding saga.


https://www.usatoday.com/in-depth/news/ ... 625721001/
Above provided by: Vinny, who always says: "I only regret that I have but one lap to give to my cats." AND "I'm a more-is-more person."
User avatar
Cortopassi
Executive Member
Executive Member
Posts: 3338
Joined: Mon Feb 24, 2014 2:28 pm
Location: https://www.jwst.nasa.gov/content/webbL ... sWebb.html

Re: Trump has Covid-19

Post by Cortopassi » Mon Oct 05, 2020 7:29 pm

Tortoise wrote:
Mon Oct 05, 2020 3:25 pm
Of the 200,000+ Americans who died with SARS-CoV-2 (meaning they happened to test positive for it around the same time that they died for any reason whatsoever), how many of them were also tested for any one of those 200 common cold viruses?
Only think I would ask, is what are you trying to say? CDC excess deaths show a significant excess starting earlier this year, I won't link it cause we all know where to find it.

You have something else to attribute those excess deaths to?

A twofer: tech, you never took on the question: what about the first family maskless at the Cleveland Clinic, breaking the debate rules?
User avatar
Tortoise
Executive Member
Executive Member
Posts: 2751
Joined: Sat Nov 06, 2010 2:35 am

Re: Trump has Covid-19

Post by Tortoise » Mon Oct 05, 2020 8:11 pm

Cortopassi wrote:
Mon Oct 05, 2020 7:29 pm
Tortoise wrote:
Mon Oct 05, 2020 3:25 pm
Of the 200,000+ Americans who died with SARS-CoV-2 (meaning they happened to test positive for it around the same time that they died for any reason whatsoever), how many of them were also tested for any one of those 200 common cold viruses?
Only think I would ask, is what are you trying to say? CDC excess deaths show a significant excess starting earlier this year, I won't link it cause we all know where to find it.

You have something else to attribute those excess deaths to?
The CDC itself provides the following disclaimer on its excess deaths page:
Finally, the estimates of excess deaths reported here may not be due to COVID-19, either directly or indirectly. The pandemic may have changed mortality patterns for other causes of death. Upward trends in other causes of death (e.g., suicide, drug overdose, heart disease) may contribute to excess deaths in some jurisdictions. Future analyses of cause-specific excess mortality may provide additional information about these patterns.

https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/nvss/vsrr/covi ... deaths.htm
Our health care system was significantly disrupted this year as the world locked down and people hunkered down in their homes, terrified of going to the hospital for anything. That almost certainly contributed to a lot of people failing to get treated for various ailments and subsequently dying at a statistically higher than normal rate.

But most of them got tested for Covid-1984 on their death bed, and the ones who tested positive were chalked up as "Covid-1984 deaths" on the scoreboard. I mean, they died and they had Covid-1984 in their system, so of course that virus caused their death, right?

What I'm trying to say is that if we had also tested all of those same dying people for the flu and the 200 common cold viruses, a lot of them would have also tested positive for some of the other viruses. Statistically, I don't think that can be disputed. And in those cases, what would we be able to conclude? Does correlation equal causation?

Let's read the first paragraph of the Wikipedia article on the common cold:
The common cold, also known simply as a cold, is a viral infectious disease of the upper respiratory tract that primarily affects the nose. The throat, sinuses, and larynx may also be affected. Signs and symptoms may appear less than two days after exposure to the virus. These may include coughing, sore throat, runny nose, sneezing, headache, and fever. People usually recover in seven to ten days, but some symptoms may last up to three weeks. Occasionally, those with other health problems may develop pneumonia.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Common_cold
Does that description of symptoms and potentially deadly outcomes for people with other health problems sound familiar?
User avatar
Mark Leavy
Executive Member
Executive Member
Posts: 1950
Joined: Thu Mar 01, 2012 10:20 pm
Location: US Citizen, Permanent Traveler

Re: Trump has Covid-19

Post by Mark Leavy » Mon Oct 05, 2020 9:01 pm

vnatale wrote:
Mon Oct 05, 2020 5:28 pm
Does everything you do change your life?
Yes
User avatar
Cortopassi
Executive Member
Executive Member
Posts: 3338
Joined: Mon Feb 24, 2014 2:28 pm
Location: https://www.jwst.nasa.gov/content/webbL ... sWebb.html

Re: Trump has Covid-19

Post by Cortopassi » Tue Oct 06, 2020 9:23 am

Guys,

1) I totally agree that other factors, at least later in the lockdown cycles, could be adding deaths from stress, etc. But if you also don't believe in even that first hump (peaking in April) of excess deaths being attributable mainly to Covid or with Covid, we obviously will never agree.

2) I thought yesterday I was the only one who noticed this. Hey, I give him props for doing what he did, but there were some obvious I'm not getting enough air winces.

https://www.businessinsider.com/video-t ... se-2020-10
User avatar
doodle
Executive Member
Executive Member
Posts: 4658
Joined: Fri Feb 11, 2011 2:17 pm

Re: Trump has Covid-19

Post by doodle » Tue Oct 06, 2020 9:41 am

Cortopassi wrote:
Tue Oct 06, 2020 9:23 am
Guys,

1) I totally agree that other factors, at least later in the lockdown cycles, could be adding deaths from stress, etc. But if you also don't believe in even that first hump (peaking in April) of excess deaths being attributable mainly to Covid or with Covid, we obviously will never agree.

2) I thought yesterday I was the only one who noticed this. Hey, I give him props for doing what he did, but there were some obvious I'm not getting enough air winces.

https://www.businessinsider.com/video-t ... se-2020-10
The thing I don't understand is that they deny the experiences of the medical staff on the frontlines standing by helpless as patient after patient died. Exhausted doctors and nurses putting themselves in harm's way for days long shifts without sleep as the anti-government critics sit back in their living room munching cheetos complaining how they have to wear a mask to buy groceries. I just don't get it.
User avatar
Mountaineer
Executive Member
Executive Member
Posts: 4959
Joined: Tue Feb 07, 2012 10:54 am

Re: Trump has Covid-19

Post by Mountaineer » Tue Oct 06, 2020 9:45 am

Cheetos bad. Cause orange lips. 😱
DNA has its own language (code), and language requires intelligence. There is no known mechanism by which matter can give birth to information, let alone language. It is unreasonable to believe the world could have happened by chance.
User avatar
Cortopassi
Executive Member
Executive Member
Posts: 3338
Joined: Mon Feb 24, 2014 2:28 pm
Location: https://www.jwst.nasa.gov/content/webbL ... sWebb.html

Re: Trump has Covid-19

Post by Cortopassi » Tue Oct 06, 2020 9:52 am

doodle wrote:
Tue Oct 06, 2020 9:41 am
Cortopassi wrote:
Tue Oct 06, 2020 9:23 am
Guys,

1) I totally agree that other factors, at least later in the lockdown cycles, could be adding deaths from stress, etc. But if you also don't believe in even that first hump (peaking in April) of excess deaths being attributable mainly to Covid or with Covid, we obviously will never agree.

2) I thought yesterday I was the only one who noticed this. Hey, I give him props for doing what he did, but there were some obvious I'm not getting enough air winces.

https://www.businessinsider.com/video-t ... se-2020-10
The thing I don't understand is that they deny the experiences of the medical staff on the frontlines standing by helpless as patient after patient died. Exhausted doctors and nurses putting themselves in harm's way for days long shifts without sleep as the anti-government critics sit back in their living room munching cheetos complaining how they have to wear a mask to buy groceries. I just don't get it.
doodle, I don't either. Apparently all those images, esp. from New York, are easily/conveniently forgotten. Regardless of a person's thinking of the root cause, a bunch of extra deaths occurred. As we go further into this I am sure many continue to be caused by stressors of various types.

And the government, both sides, still can't reach a deal to continue assistance to those that need it.
Post Reply