Eight more years?

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vnatale
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Re: Eight more years?

Post by vnatale » Thu Sep 10, 2020 2:12 pm

Cortopassi wrote:
Thu Sep 10, 2020 1:35 pm
shekels wrote:
Thu Sep 10, 2020 1:02 pm
Cortopassi wrote:
Thu Sep 10, 2020 12:52 pm
Ha ha ha ha very funny. What a funny guy.

Problem is there is a complete loss of understanding whether he is lying or telling the truth or joking or being serious with him.

His words can be spun in any freaking direction as required by supporters or detractors.

What does that make him? Hopefully after Jan 20, it makes him a real estate guy again and not president.
Yep,
On Jan 20 It makes him, President Trump being sworn in for his second term.
Not out of the realm of possibility for sure. Either way, whoever wins, going to be interesting.

Back to words matter, though. It was fun, entertaining even, when he was a candidate, how he'd just be the every man, sitting at a bar railing on everything kind of talk that he did. Like your crazy uncle. Enough so that I voted for him.

4 years later though, I've had enough. Even if it was Hillary running again, I'd vote for her. That's how much his demeanor and attitude toward people who don't fall in line have affected me. Call it TDS? Sure. I'd actually call it being a guy with a good heart.

Michael Cohen, yet another in the incredibly long list of people who have written a book, or eventually broke ranks and spoke out against him -- I don't think there's really anyone left who thinks Trump is a nice guy. At some point, are these all losers? Disloyal? Suddenly see the light people? At some point there is a mass effect where any reasonable person has to go, hmmm, maybe it's Trump, and not these dozens of others?

I know, he doesn't have to be nice. But if he was able to dial it back from 11 to maybe a 6 or 7 on the "I'm an asshole, I know everything, you're stupid if you don't agree with me" factor, he'd win in a landslide.
From Michael Cohen's book:

"There I was, watching myself on TV, the Michael Cohen everyone had an opinion about: liar, snitch, idiot, bully, sycophant, convicted criminal, the least reliable narrator on the planet.

So, please permit me to reintroduce myself in these pages. The one thing I can say with absolute certainty is that whatever you may have heard or thought about me, you don’t know me or my story or the Donald Trump that I know. For more than a decade, I was Trump’s first call every morning and his last call every night. I was in and out of Trump’s office on the 26th floor of the Trump Tower as many as fifty times a day, tending to his every demand. Our cell phones had the same address books, our contacts so entwined, overlapping, and intimate that part of my job was to deal with the endless queries and requests, however large or small, from Trump’s countless rich and famous acquaintances. I called any and all of the people he spoke to, most often on his behalf as his attorney and emissary, and everyone knew that when I spoke to them, it was as good as if they were talking directly to Trump.

Apart from his wife and children, I knew Trump better than anyone else did. In some ways, I knew him better than even his family did, because I bore witness to the real man, in strip clubs, shady business meetings, and in the unguarded moments when he revealed who he really was: a cheat, a liar, a fraud, a bully, a racist, a predator, a con man."

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Re: Eight more years?

Post by I Shrugged » Thu Sep 10, 2020 6:19 pm

In some ways, I knew him better than even his family did, because I bore witness to the real man, in strip clubs, shady business meetings, and in the unguarded moments when he revealed who he really was: a cheat, a liar, a fraud, a bully, a racist, a predator, a con man."
So he's a Clinton?
:)
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Re: Eight more years?

Post by vnatale » Thu Sep 10, 2020 6:31 pm

I Shrugged wrote:
Thu Sep 10, 2020 6:19 pm
In some ways, I knew him better than even his family did, because I bore witness to the real man, in strip clubs, shady business meetings, and in the unguarded moments when he revealed who he really was: a cheat, a liar, a fraud, a bully, a racist, a predator, a con man."
So he's a Clinton?
:)
I know you are not being totally serious but....about the only thing they share is their unfaithfulness to their wife. But, as usual, I'm sure Trump was the "best" in that department.

Trump is totally motivated by $$$$$$$$$$$$$$ while Clinton was never. That was why Hillary became so money hungry because after he lost his second run for governor they had nothing financially and she never wanted to go through that again.

Clinton was oftentimes referred to as the first "black" president.

I don't recall newspaper stories documenting his telling lies about anything except for whatever was regarding Monica. And, to counter you (or anyone else) saying that was because the liberal media was not going to go after him...I'd counter by saying they went after him relentlessly regarding all things Monica.

And, in spite of his marital infidelities, he did remain married to one woman. By all accounts he was a great parent (with Hillary) in raising Chelsea.

I don't recall former people in his administration telling us all how bad a president he was. Also don't recall his relatives, who know him best, telling the world of what a terrible person he was / is.


He and Trump are two totally different people.

Vinny
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Re: Eight more years?

Post by Libertarian666 » Fri Sep 11, 2020 7:44 am

Cortopassi wrote:
Thu Sep 10, 2020 2:01 pm
flyingpylon wrote:
Thu Sep 10, 2020 1:49 pm
Here's the video, queued to the relevant part of the speech: https://youtu.be/V5CHERi6oDU?t=1025

It was a joke and this is really an absurd discussion. Scott Adams was right when he said that about a third of the general public doesn't even recognize humor when they see it.
It was a joke, I agree. You can see when he shifts from teleprompter to off the cuff.

It doesn't change, for me, the larger issue of he's just an old man with a mean bully streak and we should be able to do better than him (or Biden) as president.
Let's suppose you are right and we should be able to do better than him or Biden.
But that's not the choice facing us right now.
Right now we have a choice between him and Biden.

I'm not aware of any argument for the position that Biden would be an improvement AS PRESIDENT.
Not as a next-door neighbor, a pastor, or even as a local politician.
As PRESIDENT.
That's a very difficult job with a lot of power. It requires someone who can get things accomplished, or at the very least doesn't get us into any new wars or make other blunders that cause major harm to the US.

Can you make an argument that Biden is more suitable for that job than someone who has already held that job for 4 years and hasn't gotten us into any new wars or made any other major blunders of similar magnitude?
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Re: Eight more years?

Post by Cortopassi » Fri Sep 11, 2020 8:16 am

Libertarian666 wrote:
Fri Sep 11, 2020 7:44 am
Can you make an argument that Biden is more suitable for that job than someone who has already held that job for 4 years and hasn't gotten us into any new wars or made any other major blunders of similar magnitude?
Not convincingly.

Trump will be judged at this point on two or three things:

--The coronavirus response. This may crush him (or help him) depending on where cases and deaths are as we get nearer Nov 3rd. The optics for him work with one segment -- that Michigan rally yesterday I was surprised people's heads did not explode on CNN covering it with the lack of masks and distancing.

--His demeanor. When people step into that voting booth, the somewhat undecideds, what's going through their mind -- do I want 4 more years of twitter, I think. And that may work against him at the last minute decision point.

--The rioting. I call that a toss up. Easy to say its democrats fault. Also easy to say it is under his leadership (or lack thereof)
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Re: Eight more years?

Post by shekels » Fri Sep 11, 2020 9:35 am

Cortopassi wrote:
Fri Sep 11, 2020 8:16 am
Libertarian666 wrote:
Fri Sep 11, 2020 7:44 am
Can you make an argument that Biden is more suitable for that job than someone who has already held that job for 4 years and hasn't gotten us into any new wars or made any other major blunders of similar magnitude?
Not convincingly.

Trump will be judged at this point on two or three things:

--The coronavirus response. This may crush him (or help him) depending on where cases and deaths are as we get nearer Nov 3rd. The optics for him work with one segment -- that Michigan rally yesterday I was surprised people's heads did not explode on CNN covering it with the lack of masks and distancing.

--His demeanor. When people step into that voting booth, the somewhat undecideds, what's going through their mind -- do I want 4 more years of twitter, I think. And that may work against him at the last minute decision point.

--The rioting. I call that a toss up. Easy to say its democrats fault. Also easy to say it is under his leadership (or lack thereof)
So you are OK with the Federal Government/Trump going in to stop the Riots?
Insurrection Act

If you are not OK with Trump ending the Riots by force,You must be for allowing the State Governments to end the riots.
How is it trump fault again?
¯\_(ツ)_/¯
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Re: Eight more years?

Post by Cortopassi » Fri Sep 11, 2020 9:40 am

shekels wrote:
Fri Sep 11, 2020 9:35 am
Cortopassi wrote:
Fri Sep 11, 2020 8:16 am
Libertarian666 wrote:
Fri Sep 11, 2020 7:44 am
Can you make an argument that Biden is more suitable for that job than someone who has already held that job for 4 years and hasn't gotten us into any new wars or made any other major blunders of similar magnitude?
Not convincingly.

Trump will be judged at this point on two or three things:

--The coronavirus response. This may crush him (or help him) depending on where cases and deaths are as we get nearer Nov 3rd. The optics for him work with one segment -- that Michigan rally yesterday I was surprised people's heads did not explode on CNN covering it with the lack of masks and distancing.

--His demeanor. When people step into that voting booth, the somewhat undecideds, what's going through their mind -- do I want 4 more years of twitter, I think. And that may work against him at the last minute decision point.

--The rioting. I call that a toss up. Easy to say its democrats fault. Also easy to say it is under his leadership (or lack thereof)
So you are OK with the Federal Government/Trump going in to stop the Riots?
Insurrection Act

If you are not OK with Trump ending the Riots by force,You must be for allowing the State Governments to end the riots.
How is it trump fault again?
Being presidential. Calling for calm and healing, vs. throwing out red meat and panic. Give me a Bill Clinton "I feel your pain" empathetic president right now and I truly believe a lot of this can be stopped.

It is NOT directly Trump's fault. But he is doing NOTHING to try to lower the temperature.
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Re: Eight more years?

Post by shekels » Fri Sep 11, 2020 9:47 am

Cortopassi wrote:
Fri Sep 11, 2020 9:40 am
shekels wrote:
Fri Sep 11, 2020 9:35 am
Cortopassi wrote:
Fri Sep 11, 2020 8:16 am
Libertarian666 wrote:
Fri Sep 11, 2020 7:44 am
Can you make an argument that Biden is more suitable for that job than someone who has already held that job for 4 years and hasn't gotten us into any new wars or made any other major blunders of similar magnitude?
Not convincingly.

Trump will be judged at this point on two or three things:

--The coronavirus response. This may crush him (or help him) depending on where cases and deaths are as we get nearer Nov 3rd. The optics for him work with one segment -- that Michigan rally yesterday I was surprised people's heads did not explode on CNN covering it with the lack of masks and distancing.

--His demeanor. When people step into that voting booth, the somewhat undecideds, what's going through their mind -- do I want 4 more years of twitter, I think. And that may work against him at the last minute decision point.

--The rioting. I call that a toss up. Easy to say its democrats fault. Also easy to say it is under his leadership (or lack thereof)
So you are OK with the Federal Government/Trump going in to stop the Riots?
Insurrection Act

If you are not OK with Trump ending the Riots by force,You must be for allowing the State Governments to end the riots.
How is it trump fault again?
Being presidential. Calling for calm and healing, vs. throwing out red meat and panic. Give me a Bill Clinton "I feel your pain" empathetic president right now and I truly believe a lot of this can be stopped.

It is NOT directly Trump's fault. But he is doing NOTHING to try to lower the temperature.
So using "Feelings" as a tool to calm the masses,that wants to overthrow/dismantle the system works for you.
¯\_(ツ)_/¯
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Re: Eight more years?

Post by Cortopassi » Fri Sep 11, 2020 12:03 pm

shekels wrote:
Fri Sep 11, 2020 9:47 am
Cortopassi wrote:
Fri Sep 11, 2020 9:40 am
shekels wrote:
Fri Sep 11, 2020 9:35 am
Cortopassi wrote:
Fri Sep 11, 2020 8:16 am
Libertarian666 wrote:
Fri Sep 11, 2020 7:44 am
Can you make an argument that Biden is more suitable for that job than someone who has already held that job for 4 years and hasn't gotten us into any new wars or made any other major blunders of similar magnitude?
Not convincingly.

Trump will be judged at this point on two or three things:

--The coronavirus response. This may crush him (or help him) depending on where cases and deaths are as we get nearer Nov 3rd. The optics for him work with one segment -- that Michigan rally yesterday I was surprised people's heads did not explode on CNN covering it with the lack of masks and distancing.

--His demeanor. When people step into that voting booth, the somewhat undecideds, what's going through their mind -- do I want 4 more years of twitter, I think. And that may work against him at the last minute decision point.

--The rioting. I call that a toss up. Easy to say its democrats fault. Also easy to say it is under his leadership (or lack thereof)
So you are OK with the Federal Government/Trump going in to stop the Riots?
Insurrection Act

If you are not OK with Trump ending the Riots by force,You must be for allowing the State Governments to end the riots.
How is it trump fault again?
Being presidential. Calling for calm and healing, vs. throwing out red meat and panic. Give me a Bill Clinton "I feel your pain" empathetic president right now and I truly believe a lot of this can be stopped.

It is NOT directly Trump's fault. But he is doing NOTHING to try to lower the temperature.
So using "Feelings" as a tool to calm the masses,that wants to overthrow/dismantle the system works for you.
We obviously are not going to agree on this so we can agree to disagree.

I believe part of the power of the presidency should be used to help reduce divisions. We are a melting pot of a lot of different views. We can try harder to get along, and getting nudged in that direction from the top can't hurt.
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Re: Eight more years?

Post by Tortoise » Fri Sep 11, 2020 12:19 pm

Cortopassi wrote:
Fri Sep 11, 2020 12:03 pm
I believe part of the power of the presidency should be used to help reduce divisions. We are a melting pot of a lot of different views. We can try harder to get along, and getting nudged in that direction from the top can't hurt.
Mayor Ted Wheeler has been telling Portland's rioters (to paraphrase) "I feel your pain" the entire time they've been rioting, yet they still demanded his resignation, formed a mob outside of his condo building, launched fireworks outside of his window, and tried to set the building on fire.

That being the case, do you really think Trump would do any better than Wheeler by pleading with the rioters to play nice and hold hands? Do you think the BLM/Antifa rioters are sitting around watching CNN with bated breath to see what our country's leaders have to say about the riots?

You can't talk sense into wild animals on the attack. You round them up and put them in cages.
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Re: Eight more years?

Post by Cortopassi » Fri Sep 11, 2020 12:38 pm

Tortoise wrote:
Fri Sep 11, 2020 12:19 pm
Cortopassi wrote:
Fri Sep 11, 2020 12:03 pm
I believe part of the power of the presidency should be used to help reduce divisions. We are a melting pot of a lot of different views. We can try harder to get along, and getting nudged in that direction from the top can't hurt.
Mayor Ted Wheeler has been telling Portland's rioters (to paraphrase) "I feel your pain" the entire time they've been rioting, yet they still demanded his resignation, formed a mob outside of his condo building, launched fireworks outside of his window, and tried to set the building on fire.

That being the case, do you really think Trump would do any better than Wheeler by pleading with the rioters to play nice and hold hands? Do you think the BLM/Antifa rioters are sitting around watching CNN with bated breath to see what our country's leaders have to say about the riots?

You can't talk sense into wild animals on the attack. You round them up and put them in cages.
Why not treat this rioting with the kind of diplomacy we've tried for decades in the middle east? Use your power to get the politicians, Antifa, BLM and other group leaders together for a summit. Let them see if some reasonable compromise can be worked out.

If Jews and Arabs can at times try for peace, when they absolutely hate each other and actively kill and bomb each other, can't we try that among different groups of Americans? Trump has been nominated for the Nobel Peace Prize for the recent middle east effort. Shit, if he can get that same thing to happen between the groups here, in America, I'd friggin nominate him.

I suspect your response is we don't negotiate with animals or something like that. Let's just lock them all away. Sure, that's one solution, but it will just be temporary until the next spark.

Just my opinion.
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Re: Eight more years?

Post by Tortoise » Fri Sep 11, 2020 12:49 pm

Cortopassi wrote:
Fri Sep 11, 2020 12:38 pm
Why not treat this rioting with the kind of diplomacy we've tried for decades in the middle east? Use your power to get the politicians, Antifa, BLM and other group leaders together for a summit. Let them see if some reasonable compromise can be worked out.

If Jews and Arabs can at times try for peace, when they absolutely hate each other and actively kill and bomb each other, can't we try that among different groups of Americans? Trump has been nominated for the Nobel Peace Prize for the recent middle east effort. Shit, if he can get that same thing to happen between the groups here, in America, I'd friggin nominate him.

I suspect your response is we don't negotiate with animals or something like that. Let's just lock them all away. Sure, that's one solution, but it will just be temporary until the next spark.

Just my opinion.
The "wild animals on the attack" that I mentioned in my previous post wouldn't be the ones at a political summit. They are the agitators who have committed violent crimes (arson, assault, etc.), which is why they should be locked up.

Violent agitators are a very tiny fraction of the population, but they are driving the vast majority of riots. So once they are locked up, the riots will largely fizzle out, and what we'll be left with are non-violent protests -- which most Americans are fine with.
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Re: Eight more years?

Post by pp4me » Fri Sep 11, 2020 1:32 pm

Tucker began talking about parallels between today and the early part of the previous century. Found it quite interesting and I intend to look into it some more....

https://allthatsinteresting.com/anarchy ... 20America.
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Re: Eight more years?

Post by pp4me » Fri Sep 11, 2020 2:12 pm

The only negotiating table the Antifa/BLM rioters should be sitting at with the government is the one where their lawyers are plea bargaining for lighter sentences.
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Re: Eight more years?

Post by doodle » Fri Sep 11, 2020 3:31 pm

That's what the British said about our founding fathers as well. History is full of pissed off people in the street lashing out. I wish they would avoid targeting small folk....unfortunately a lot of dumbasses wrapped up in the movement
Last edited by doodle on Fri Sep 11, 2020 3:43 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Eight more years?

Post by doodle » Fri Sep 11, 2020 3:34 pm

Oppression? They might have some understanding Again, the targeting of small civilian business is bad move...
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Re: Eight more years?

Post by doodle » Fri Sep 11, 2020 3:36 pm

Unfortunately the movement is lacking brains....although people have a right be fed up they need clear messaging and organization....same issue led to downfall of occupy wall street
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Re: Eight more years?

Post by doodle » Fri Sep 11, 2020 3:43 pm

Also MangoMan, I think your version of events leading up to revolutionary war is a bit too sanitized....tarring and feathering, destruction of private property, mobs in streets. I don't think founding fathers would be too surprised that citizens are up in arms in streets that modern aristocracy has made a sham out of our democracy.
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Re: Eight more years?

Post by Kriegsspiel » Fri Sep 11, 2020 4:02 pm

There's absolutely no way the Founding Fathers would have been sympathetic to BLM/Antifa, seeing as how they were all racist Nazis. 8) 8) 8) 8) 8)
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Re: Eight more years?

Post by Libertarian666 » Fri Sep 11, 2020 5:30 pm

pp4me wrote:
Fri Sep 11, 2020 2:12 pm
The only negotiating table the Antifa/BLM rioters should be sitting at with the government is the one where their lawyers are plea bargaining for lighter sentences.
Exactly.
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Re: Eight more years?

Post by doodle » Sat Sep 12, 2020 12:22 am

MangoMan wrote:
Fri Sep 11, 2020 4:03 pm
doodle wrote:
Fri Sep 11, 2020 3:43 pm
Also MangoMan, I think your version of events leading up to revolutionary war is a bit too sanitized....tarring and feathering, destruction of private property, mobs in streets. I don't think founding fathers would be too surprised that citizens are up in arms in streets that modern aristocracy has made a sham out of our democracy.
No, you got it right several posts up. How does ruining the lives of small business owners (including black ones) further the cause of blacks?
It doesn't, it's stupid. But how does that negate the legitimacy of their complaints? You confusing the messenger with the message.
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Re: Eight more years?

Post by vnatale » Thu Sep 17, 2020 4:19 pm

Back to the choice of music / songs played at Trump's rallies.

The first time I heard this song being played I told myself, "This is NOT a song I'd play at a Trump rally."

Lately I've been hearing this being the first song played after Trump concludes speaking. (Just heard it again after listening to his recent Reno, Nevada rally.)

Reading the below....definitely seems like a song directed at the Trump crowd.....if you don't know what you are doing when you chose songs to play!

Vinny

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Y.M.C.A._(song)

Taken at face value, the song's lyrics extol the virtues of the Young Men's Christian Association. However, in the gay culture from which the Village People stemmed, the song was implicitly understood as celebrating YMCA's reputation as a popular cruising and hookup spot, particularly for the younger men to whom it was addressed.[14] The initial goal of Village People producers Morali and Belolo was to attract disco's gay audience by featuring popular gay fantasy in their music.[15] Although co-creator Morali was gay and the group was initially intended to target gay men, the group became more popular and more mainstream over time.[16]
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Re: Eight more years?

Post by Mark Leavy » Thu Sep 17, 2020 5:24 pm

The Donald speaks to you Vinny. I'm just the messenger. I don't do interpretations :)

YMCA.png
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Re: Eight more years?

Post by stuper1 » Thu Sep 17, 2020 6:05 pm

See, most people, even including Trump supporters, just like a fun catchy tune and lyrics. They couldn't care less if some perverts also like the same song. And of course everybody knows the song is by and for perverts. Trump's DJ knows for sure that the song doesn't bother any supporters. So they play the song. Trump's supporters enjoy it. Plus he gets free publicity when the perverted liberals complain that he is stealing their music. It's a win-win. Trump knows all about win-wins.
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Re: Eight more years?

Post by Mark Leavy » Thu Sep 17, 2020 6:56 pm

stuper1 wrote:
Thu Sep 17, 2020 6:05 pm
...
And of course everybody knows the song is by and for perverts. Trump's DJ knows for sure that the song doesn't bother any supporters. So they play the song. Trump's supporters enjoy it. Plus he gets free publicity when the perverted liberals complain that he is stealing their music. It's a win-win. Trump knows all about win-wins.
This is why I don't do interpretations.
I never would have guessed that this is the real reason. 8)
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