Price Info not a cure for health care costs?

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vnatale
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Price Info not a cure for health care costs?

Post by vnatale » Thu Sep 03, 2020 4:52 pm

Price Info not a cure for health care costs?


Price Info Is No Cure for Sticker Shock

Efforts to curb spending raise questions about just how competitive health care can be.

https://www.kiplinger.com/article/insur ... shock.html

"Tough to implement. Supporters of the move say it will improve competition and lower prices. But industry groups representing both hospitals and insurance providers have spoken out against the order, suggesting transparency could actually raise prices."

Vinny
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Re: Price Info not a cure for health care costs?

Post by boglerdude » Fri Sep 04, 2020 2:40 am

Educate and import more doctors. Doctors get paid too much.

Also, its the American way to let people forgo health insurance, then means-test and hit them with a huge bill if their gamble fails

I dunno how profitable drugs are considering R&D costs....but we do want to attract the best people into biotech
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Re: Price Info not a cure for health care costs?

Post by pugchief » Fri Sep 04, 2020 7:00 am

Is this even a serious post?
boglerdude wrote:
Fri Sep 04, 2020 2:40 am
Educate and import more doctors.
You'd rather have more foreign trained doctors, where standards are often not as high?
Doctors get paid too much.
What do you think is fair compensation for 12-20 years of post high school training and the expense of that education? Plus the insanely long hours, particularly during residency?
Also, its the American way to let people forgo health insurance, then means-test and hit them with a huge bill if their gamble fails
Yes, and then let others pay for that bill by raising prices on people who can pay. :o
I dunno how profitable drugs are considering R&D costs....

And that's why new ones are so expensive.
but we do want to attract the best people into biotech
Correct. You're 1 for 5 ::)
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Re: Price Info not a cure for health care costs?

Post by Maddy » Fri Sep 04, 2020 7:42 am

Anyone who pays out-of-pocket, as I do, knows that price transparency is everything. Without it, there can be no meaningful negotiation. And yes--I do negotiate.

Why does the liberal media insist that the American public is too dumb to make meaningful use of information? Perhaps because it's their principal mission to dumb down the American public?
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Re: Price Info not a cure for health care costs?

Post by vnatale » Fri Sep 04, 2020 7:31 pm

Another side of the equation - those in the insurance companies who deny coverages.

Until I'd read this (old) article today I'd never read anything about these people in any detail. Seems like they do serve a legitimate role for logical reasons.

Vinny

Your Health Plan’s “Dr. No”

https://tnj.com/your-health-plans-dr-no/



But it?s not a computer making the call. A small but powerful group of doctors at big insurance companies are reading files, talking to practicing physicians and ultimately, making decisive judgments on millions of cases a year. Nationwide there are roughly 1,000 of these doctors, usually known as medical directors. Many are drawn to making policy rather than treating patients directly; Liss, for his part, says that if he could start again, he?d become an engineer instead of a physician.

These doctors describe themselves as the key to a working health care system, people who keep costs down so that the maximum number of patients can get care. Critics see them as insurance-company henchmen, branding them with a derisive nickname: Doctor No.



Like other medical directors, Liss often serves as a defense witness when Aetna gets sued, a role he?s wryly proud of. (A plaque on his desk reads “They wanted billions. They got nothing.”) He makes no apologies for embracing the business side of medicine, with all its controversies; he says it enticed him early in his career, when he left regular practice in internal medicine after only three years.

Today, Liss says, he?s in charge of about 2.5 million “lives” for Aetna, which means his team cranks through roughly 1,000 disputed cases a month, a routine that has shaped the way he looks at the costs of health care. “I don?t mean to sound cold here,” he says. “But sometimes when $3 million is being spent to extend someone?s life with a really high-tech treatment, I say, ?Gee, that?s incredible, but can you imagine how many people that could?ve provided dental care to?'”
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Re: Price Info not a cure for health care costs?

Post by Kbg » Fri Sep 04, 2020 11:25 pm

This was my favorite part of the Obamacare scare propaganda by the Rs...death panels. Uh yeah, it’s called these guys in the private insurance world.
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Re: Price Info not a cure for health care costs?

Post by boglerdude » Sat Sep 05, 2020 12:32 am

Pug triggered cuz he thinks he deserves to be paid more despite already being rich.
https://www.politico.com/agenda/story/2 ... es-000557/

There are 7,000 million people in the world and soon enough robots will build homes, cars, and farm. 1 in 4 people will have enough free time to be a medical professional.

> What do you think is fair compensation for 12-20 years of post high school training Plus the insanely long hours, particularly during residency?

Pay is market decision based on relative skill. The long hours during residency are abusive, i dont see how exhausted people treating patients is good.

> and then let others pay for that bill by raising prices on people who can pay

Yeah, we pay taxes or throw poors into the volcano. The non-American solution is raising taxes and forcing everyone into a plan, rather than let them gamble by not buying insurance. Either way the public foots the bill.
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Re: Price Info not a cure for health care costs?

Post by pugchief » Sat Sep 05, 2020 7:08 am

boglerdude wrote:
Sat Sep 05, 2020 12:32 am
Pug triggered cuz he thinks he deserves to be paid more despite already being rich.
https://www.politico.com/agenda/story/2 ... es-000557/

There are 7,000 million people in the world and soon enough robots will build homes, cars, and farm. 1 in 4 people will have enough free time to be a medical professional.

> What do you think is fair compensation for 12-20 years of post high school training Plus the insanely long hours, particularly during residency?

Pay is market decision based on relative skill. The long hours during residency are abusive, i dont see how exhausted people treating patients is good.

> and then let others pay for that bill by raising prices on people who can pay

Yeah, we pay taxes or throw poors into the volcano. The non-American solution is raising taxes and forcing everyone into a plan, rather than let them gamble by not buying insurance. Either way the public foots the bill.
LOL, I'm not a physician, so I'm not part of that system. I'm triggered by comments that in my opinion make no logical sense. Athletes and movie stars are overpaid. CEOs are overpaid. If I need open heart surgery, I want the Dr with the best skills. Not the guy who went to Med School in Guam because he couldn't get admitted to a school stateside. Just cuz someone has 'free time' doesn't mean they could do any given job. ::)
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Re: Price Info not a cure for health care costs?

Post by vnatale » Sat Sep 05, 2020 7:44 am

pugchief wrote:
Sat Sep 05, 2020 7:08 am
boglerdude wrote:
Sat Sep 05, 2020 12:32 am
Pug triggered cuz he thinks he deserves to be paid more despite already being rich.
https://www.politico.com/agenda/story/2 ... es-000557/

There are 7,000 million people in the world and soon enough robots will build homes, cars, and farm. 1 in 4 people will have enough free time to be a medical professional.

> What do you think is fair compensation for 12-20 years of post high school training Plus the insanely long hours, particularly during residency?

Pay is market decision based on relative skill. The long hours during residency are abusive, i dont see how exhausted people treating patients is good.

> and then let others pay for that bill by raising prices on people who can pay

Yeah, we pay taxes or throw poors into the volcano. The non-American solution is raising taxes and forcing everyone into a plan, rather than let them gamble by not buying insurance. Either way the public foots the bill.
LOL, I'm not a physician, so I'm not part of that system. I'm triggered by comments that in my opinion make no logical sense. Athletes and movie stars are overpaid. CEOs are overpaid. If I need open heart surgery, I want the Dr with the best skills. Not the guy who went to Med School in Guam because he couldn't get admitted to a school stateside. Just cuz someone has 'free time' doesn't mean they could do any given job. ::)
Athletes are not overpaid. They are paid what the are worth in a market based economy.

They are the best at what they do in a market based economy.

In baseball there are tons of professional baseball players who are in the minor leagues. If you include their wages with the pay of the major leaguers the median play for professional baseball players might be in about the $30,000 range (if even that high). Is that overpaid?

Vinny
"I only regret that I have but one lap to give to my cats."
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Re: Price Info not a cure for health care costs?

Post by vnatale » Sat Sep 05, 2020 7:46 am

vnatale wrote:
Sat Sep 05, 2020 7:44 am
pugchief wrote:
Sat Sep 05, 2020 7:08 am
boglerdude wrote:
Sat Sep 05, 2020 12:32 am
Pug triggered cuz he thinks he deserves to be paid more despite already being rich.
https://www.politico.com/agenda/story/2 ... es-000557/

There are 7,000 million people in the world and soon enough robots will build homes, cars, and farm. 1 in 4 people will have enough free time to be a medical professional.

> What do you think is fair compensation for 12-20 years of post high school training Plus the insanely long hours, particularly during residency?

Pay is market decision based on relative skill. The long hours during residency are abusive, i dont see how exhausted people treating patients is good.

> and then let others pay for that bill by raising prices on people who can pay

Yeah, we pay taxes or throw poors into the volcano. The non-American solution is raising taxes and forcing everyone into a plan, rather than let them gamble by not buying insurance. Either way the public foots the bill.
LOL, I'm not a physician, so I'm not part of that system. I'm triggered by comments that in my opinion make no logical sense. Athletes and movie stars are overpaid. CEOs are overpaid. If I need open heart surgery, I want the Dr with the best skills. Not the guy who went to Med School in Guam because he couldn't get admitted to a school stateside. Just cuz someone has 'free time' doesn't mean they could do any given job. ::)
Athletes are not overpaid. They are paid what the are worth in a market based economy.

They are the best at what they do in a market based economy.

In baseball there are tons of professional baseball players who are in the minor leagues. If you include their wages with the pay of the major leaguers the median play for professional baseball players might be in about the $30,000 range (if even that high). Is that overpaid?

And, if my $30,000 pure guess is accurate that would be it at the $15.00 minimum wage that many are advocating for.

Vinny
"I only regret that I have but one lap to give to my cats."
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Re: Price Info not a cure for health care costs?

Post by pugchief » Sat Sep 05, 2020 11:47 am

vnatale wrote:
Sat Sep 05, 2020 7:44 am
pugchief wrote:
Sat Sep 05, 2020 7:08 am
boglerdude wrote:
Sat Sep 05, 2020 12:32 am
Pug triggered cuz he thinks he deserves to be paid more despite already being rich.
https://www.politico.com/agenda/story/2 ... es-000557/

There are 7,000 million people in the world and soon enough robots will build homes, cars, and farm. 1 in 4 people will have enough free time to be a medical professional.

> What do you think is fair compensation for 12-20 years of post high school training Plus the insanely long hours, particularly during residency?

Pay is market decision based on relative skill. The long hours during residency are abusive, i dont see how exhausted people treating patients is good.

> and then let others pay for that bill by raising prices on people who can pay

Yeah, we pay taxes or throw poors into the volcano. The non-American solution is raising taxes and forcing everyone into a plan, rather than let them gamble by not buying insurance. Either way the public foots the bill.
LOL, I'm not a physician, so I'm not part of that system. I'm triggered by comments that in my opinion make no logical sense. Athletes and movie stars are overpaid. CEOs are overpaid. If I need open heart surgery, I want the Dr with the best skills. Not the guy who went to Med School in Guam because he couldn't get admitted to a school stateside. Just cuz someone has 'free time' doesn't mean they could do any given job. ::)
Athletes are not overpaid. They are paid what the are worth in a market based economy.

They are the best at what they do in a market based economy.

In baseball there are tons of professional baseball players who are in the minor leagues. If you include their wages with the pay of the major leaguers the median play for professional baseball players might be in about the $30,000 range (if even that high). Is that overpaid?

Vinny
Well then I guess you agree with my premise that physicians are not overpaid as it is market based, based on the system we have. I do agree that athletes and movie stars should be paid a market based salary, it's just my opinion that the market grossly overvalues their worth.

@Boglerdude Again, be careful what you wish for: Surveys showed that the second biggest stress for doctors was finances and the #1 thing they said would reduce their burnout was getting paid more.
https://thephysicianphilosopher.com/wha ... n-burnout/ and
https://etactics.com/blog/physician-burnout-statistics
Maybe when they all retire early due to burnout and you can't get an appointment, you'll be happier. Or maybe you'll enter the field yourself and work for half of the average since the current pay is too high.
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Re: Price Info not a cure for health care costs?

Post by vnatale » Sat Sep 05, 2020 2:42 pm

pugchief wrote:
Sat Sep 05, 2020 11:47 am
vnatale wrote:
Sat Sep 05, 2020 7:44 am
pugchief wrote:
Sat Sep 05, 2020 7:08 am
boglerdude wrote:
Sat Sep 05, 2020 12:32 am
Pug triggered cuz he thinks he deserves to be paid more despite already being rich.
https://www.politico.com/agenda/story/2 ... es-000557/

There are 7,000 million people in the world and soon enough robots will build homes, cars, and farm. 1 in 4 people will have enough free time to be a medical professional.

> What do you think is fair compensation for 12-20 years of post high school training Plus the insanely long hours, particularly during residency?

Pay is market decision based on relative skill. The long hours during residency are abusive, i dont see how exhausted people treating patients is good.

> and then let others pay for that bill by raising prices on people who can pay

Yeah, we pay taxes or throw poors into the volcano. The non-American solution is raising taxes and forcing everyone into a plan, rather than let them gamble by not buying insurance. Either way the public foots the bill.
LOL, I'm not a physician, so I'm not part of that system. I'm triggered by comments that in my opinion make no logical sense. Athletes and movie stars are overpaid. CEOs are overpaid. If I need open heart surgery, I want the Dr with the best skills. Not the guy who went to Med School in Guam because he couldn't get admitted to a school stateside. Just cuz someone has 'free time' doesn't mean they could do any given job. ::)
Athletes are not overpaid. They are paid what the are worth in a market based economy.

They are the best at what they do in a market based economy.

In baseball there are tons of professional baseball players who are in the minor leagues. If you include their wages with the pay of the major leaguers the median play for professional baseball players might be in about the $30,000 range (if even that high). Is that overpaid?

Vinny
Well then I guess you agree with my premise that physicians are not overpaid as it is market based, based on the system we have. I do agree that athletes and movie stars should be paid a market based salary, it's just my opinion that the market grossly overvalues their worth.

@Boglerdude Again, be careful what you wish for: Surveys showed that the second biggest stress for doctors was finances and the #1 thing they said would reduce their burnout was getting paid more.
https://thephysicianphilosopher.com/wha ... n-burnout/ and
https://etactics.com/blog/physician-burnout-statistics
Maybe when they all retire early due to burnout and you can't get an appointment, you'll be happier. Or maybe you'll enter the field yourself and work for half of the average since the current pay is too high.
The owners get their revenues from the market. The market willingly pays what it pays. And, the owners have franchises that continually go up in value. So in what way does the market "grossly overvalue their worth"?

There are all kinds of people on Wall Street who make way more than the most athletes make. We have no idea who their names are. They have also have careers of much greater longevity than athletes and don't have their earning power subject to being reduced due to physically injured while carrying out their professions.

The American public is constantly voting with their wallets that athletes are worth what they are paid.

Vinny
"I only regret that I have but one lap to give to my cats."
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