If you actually think black lives matter, watch this ad

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technovelist
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If you actually think black lives matter, watch this ad

Post by technovelist » Tue Aug 18, 2020 9:14 am

A black woman is running for Congress from Baltimore:
https://www.facebook.com/DonaldJTrumpJr ... 804426758/
Another nod to the most beautiful equation: e + 1 = 0
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Cortopassi
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Re: If you actually think black lives matter, watch this ad

Post by Cortopassi » Tue Aug 18, 2020 9:46 am

It's a great ad.

I know you are ignoring me, but in case you see this, just tell me what things a republican mayor/council (whatever form of gvt they have) would do to change things?

Trump gets elected mayor of Chicago. What does he do?

Do democrats do something specific that keep these communities in these bad situations on purpose? I want to be optimistic and say no. But I can't deny that most are run by democrats.
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Re: If you actually think black lives matter, watch this ad

Post by Xan » Tue Aug 18, 2020 9:51 am

That's an interesting question, Corto. It's always worth thinking about causality. Certainly the mayor could do things differently that would help, but would it really fix the problem?

I think the real answer is the culture of a place. The culture will produce particular kinds of mayors, as well as particular levels of street violence.

In your counterfactual "Trump gets elected mayor of Chicago": certainly there would be things he could do, but really what such an event would represent would be that rank-and-file Chicagoans are tired of the violence and really, actually want it to stop. "Trump" in that situation would be riding that wave of public support and have a mandate to clean things up. That wave/mandate is what is really needed.
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Cortopassi
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Re: If you actually think black lives matter, watch this ad

Post by Cortopassi » Tue Aug 18, 2020 10:08 am

I don't want to go anti-gun liberal here, but here's 2020 data from heyjackass.

I wonder what the murder rates in the US would be if guns weren't accessible, like in so many other countries? I assume there would still be crimes of many types, but take guns out of the equation, and Chicago's rate would drop like a rock.

Image
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technovelist
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Re: If you actually think black lives matter, watch this ad

Post by technovelist » Tue Aug 18, 2020 10:21 am

Cortopassi wrote:
Tue Aug 18, 2020 9:46 am
It's a great ad.

I know you are ignoring me, but in case you see this, just tell me what things a republican mayor/council (whatever form of gvt they have) would do to change things?

Trump gets elected mayor of Chicago. What does he do?

Do democrats do something specific that keep these communities in these bad situations on purpose? I want to be optimistic and say no. But I can't deny that most are run by democrats.
It wouldn't require Trump, just someone who actually wants to fix the problems, starting with the surge in crime.

Rudy Giuliani took a crime-ridden city and made it livable.
Bloomberg, whatever his numerous flaws, kept that up and reduced the crime rate even further.
De Blasio has managed to destroy that accomplishment in a brief period of time, with the help of Cuomo's "bail reform".

Here's what I would do:

1. Arrest people who break laws like turnstile jumping, and you find that most of them have lots of other arrest warrants out on them.
2. Keep them locked up by requiring reasonable bail rather than just letting them go to commit more crimes, as is being done now.
3. Peaceful protests that don't block traffic unreasonably are fine, but whoever commits the first violent act gets locked up, as do the second and third people. That will stop riots pretty quickly.

and I would add:

4. Repeal the drug laws, which make criminals for no reason.
5. Allow people to arm themselves to protect against burglary, rape, and so on.

There are lots of other things that need fixing in the cities, but those simple steps would solve the soaring crime rate.
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Re: If you actually think black lives matter, watch this ad

Post by shekels » Tue Aug 18, 2020 11:04 am

Cortopassi wrote:
Tue Aug 18, 2020 10:08 am
I don't want to go anti-gun liberal here, but here's 2020 data from heyjackass.

I wonder what the murder rates in the US would be if guns weren't accessible, like in so many other countries? I assume there would still be crimes of many types, but take guns out of the equation, and Chicago's rate would drop like a rock.

Seems like it is a false premise
You assume Guns Kill People. People Kill people..
Guns are the preferred method in this instance.
If someone was going to kill you without a gun, do you think they could find another way?

Like this for instance..
https://youtu.be/Hm72LSVMHmk
¯\_(ツ)_/¯
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Re: If you actually think black lives matter, watch this ad

Post by Cortopassi » Tue Aug 18, 2020 11:17 am

shekels wrote:
Tue Aug 18, 2020 11:04 am
Cortopassi wrote:
Tue Aug 18, 2020 10:08 am
I don't want to go anti-gun liberal here, but here's 2020 data from heyjackass.

I wonder what the murder rates in the US would be if guns weren't accessible, like in so many other countries? I assume there would still be crimes of many types, but take guns out of the equation, and Chicago's rate would drop like a rock.

Seems like it is a false premise
You assume Guns Kill People. People Kill people..
Guns are the preferred method in this instance.
If someone was going to kill you without a gun, do you think they could find another way?

Like this for instance..
https://youtu.be/Hm72LSVMHmk
I do not at all accept that suddenly death by stabbings rockets to the same level as deaths by guns currently is.

Guns are impersonal, kill by distance things. You don't even have to clearly see a person to shoot at them. Comparing that to stabbing, or beating to death, which is more personal I believe is apples and oranges. Not saying it won't take some place of gun killings, but at nowhere the level.

And there would be a likely drop to zero of these accidental killings of 9 year olds by stray bullets.
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Re: If you actually think black lives matter, watch this ad

Post by shekels » Tue Aug 18, 2020 11:19 am

shekels wrote:
Tue Aug 18, 2020 11:04 am
Cortopassi wrote:
Tue Aug 18, 2020 10:08 am
I don't want to go anti-gun liberal here, but here's 2020 data from heyjackass.

I wonder what the murder rates in the US would be if guns weren't accessible, like in so many other countries? I assume there would still be crimes of many types, but take guns out of the equation, and Chicago's rate would drop like a rock.

Seems like it is a false premise
You assume Guns Kill People. People Kill people..
Guns are the preferred method in this instance.
If someone was going to kill you without a gun, do you think they could find another way?

Like this for instance..
https://youtu.be/Hm72LSVMHmk
One more thing I will add, Do you think Legal Gun ownership is the problem in Chicago?
Or are you trying to decide if Chicago's Gun laws are not strict enough.They have one of the strictest gun laws.
Now I will suggest that if everyone carried a Concealed Gun in Chicago,the the crime in Chicago would go down after a breaking in period.
¯\_(ツ)_/¯
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shekels
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Re: If you actually think black lives matter, watch this ad

Post by shekels » Tue Aug 18, 2020 11:22 am

Cortopassi wrote:
Tue Aug 18, 2020 11:17 am
shekels wrote:
Tue Aug 18, 2020 11:04 am
Cortopassi wrote:
Tue Aug 18, 2020 10:08 am
I don't want to go anti-gun liberal here, but here's 2020 data from heyjackass.

I wonder what the murder rates in the US would be if guns weren't accessible, like in so many other countries? I assume there would still be crimes of many types, but take guns out of the equation, and Chicago's rate would drop like a rock.

Seems like it is a false premise
You assume Guns Kill People. People Kill people..
Guns are the preferred method in this instance.
If someone was going to kill you without a gun, do you think they could find another way?

Like this for instance..
https://youtu.be/Hm72LSVMHmk
I do not at all accept that suddenly death by stabbings rockets to the same level as deaths by guns currently is.

Guns are impersonal, kill by distance things. You don't even have to clearly see a person to shoot at them. Comparing that to stabbing, or beating to death, which is more personal I believe is apples and oranges. Not saying it won't take some place of gun killings, but at nowhere the level.

And there would be a likely drop to zero of these accidental killings of 9 year olds by stray bullets.
Again you seem to still blame guns, and not people for their lack of responsibility's in a "civilized" society.
¯\_(ツ)_/¯
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Re: If you actually think black lives matter, watch this ad

Post by pugchief » Tue Aug 18, 2020 1:05 pm

That youtube video was already removed for 'violations, blah blah', but if you look at London where guns are completely banned, people use knives to kill people a-plenty. Agree with Shekels, it's not the legal gun owners, farmers, skeet shooters and hunters that are the problem. Criminals will get guns no matter the law, and use them unlawfully. Also, Lightfoot's BS about Indiana being the problem is complete nonsense.
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Re: If you actually think black lives matter, watch this ad

Post by Cortopassi » Tue Aug 18, 2020 3:52 pm

pugchief wrote:
Tue Aug 18, 2020 1:05 pm
That youtube video was already removed for 'violations, blah blah', but if you look at London where guns are completely banned, people use knives to kill people a-plenty. Agree with Shekels, it's not the legal gun owners, farmers, skeet shooters and hunters that are the problem. Criminals will get guns no matter the law, and use them unlawfully. Also, Lightfoot's BS about Indiana being the problem is complete nonsense.
Oh, c'mon give me a break.

In the UK: "There were 259 sharp instrument homicides recorded in the year ending March 2019" out of 671 total homicides for the YEAR. In a country of 66 million people.

Compared to 16,214 in the US, 72% of which were with guns.

Please. Guns don't kill people, people kill people. No one should be killing anyone, but guns make it a whole lot easier.

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https://ucr.fbi.gov/crime-in-the-u.s/20 ... able-7.xls
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Re: If you actually think black lives matter, watch this ad

Post by Tortoise » Tue Aug 18, 2020 4:38 pm

Apples to oranges. Let's normalize the numbers a bit for a fair comparison.

First, the U.S. population is about 330 million -- 5 times higher than the U.K. population. So divide the number of U.S. homicides by 5.

Next, the majority (74%) of homicides in the U.S. are committed by blacks and Hispanics, but there are almost no blacks or Hispanics in the U.K., so multiply the number of U.S. homicides by (1 - 0.74) = 0.26 to get the number of non-Hispanic white homicides.

What you end up with is (16,214 / 5) * 0.26 = 843 non-Hispanic white homicides in the U.S. normalized to the U.K.'s population. That's a little bit higher than the U.K.'s 671, but not ridiculously so. They're in the same ballpark.

Seems like that weakens the guns-are-the-problem argument just a bit, doesn't it?
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