Biden/Harris Discussion

[Mark Leavy]

My gal is always talking about what she will do when she wins the lottery.

I asked her if she would mail her lottery ticket in after she won, or if she would walk it in.

She looked at me like I was an idiot. Of course she would walk it in.

[Dieter]

More on the Post Office.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics ... story.html

Republicans had the House, Senate, and Presidency for two years but I'm not aware of them making any substantive changes to laws impacting the Post Office.

[vnatale]

With all this talk of post office slowness....I buy A LOT of used books on Amazon. And, I continue to be shocked by how FAST some of them get to me.

Vinny

[doodle]

Never-ending election: Trump says November's results might not be known 'for weeks, months, maybe ever' because of mail-in ballots - then claims only he can save the American Dream from 'total anarchy, madness and chaos'

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/articl ... -ever.html

Yup, this to me is scary as heck.

And that folks here seem to be fine with what is happening. He is saving our democracy by subverting it.

Which is why he has such an affinity for leaders like Putin. No one seems to be concerned here about his statements regarding not accepting election results or that he should be granted a third term...I always wondered how a seemingly intelligent population could permit authoritarian rulers to come into power...now I realize, all they have to do is knock and people will let them come walking in. Make no mistake the Democrats scare me as well. But Trump is in another league of corruption. It's mountain lion vs grizzly bear...pick your battle.

[doodle]

With all this talk of post office slowness....I buy A LOT of used books on Amazon. And, I continue to be shocked by how FAST some of them get to me.

Vinny

Post office is more akin to public utility or public infrastructure. How much profit did our national highway system make us last year? What is happening is a challenge to our nation's public resources. Pretty soon we aren't going to need a wall, no one is going to want to come here. I look out at the world and for the first time in my life the United States is no longer at the top of my list for where I would want to live. Our medical system is broken in an extreme way, our public infrastructure is crumbling, our political system is a mess, our monetary system is out of control, and our countries morale is at an all time low. America's secret sauce seems to have run out. There is a group on here that wants to hand control of all these problems to corporate oligopolists to solve...because historically handing control to the wealthy elite has always worked out so well for the common man. Unfortunately many of our politicians are now part of this class as well. The whole things a mess and the only thing anyone can do is point fingers.

[Cortopassi]

Pretty soon we aren't going to need a wall, no one is going to want to come here. I look out at the world and for the first time in my life the United States is no longer at the top of my list for where I would want to live.

This, unfortunately, is where I am at.

But if you listen to some (many here), if Trump gets booted out, it will only get worse. I just don't see how it possibly can.
-------------
On a related note to the original topic -- Biden -- at the convention there was a speech by a 12 year old who stuttered. I did not know Biden was a stutterer.

Any thoughts on that history being the basis for his occasional mis-speaks, where the mind-mouth control just wigs out like it must have when he was a kid? Vs. those who believe he has dementia? Asking anyone here that question.

[pp4me]

Pretty soon we aren't going to need a wall, no one is going to want to come here. I look out at the world and for the first time in my life the United States is no longer at the top of my list for where I would want to live.

This, unfortunately, is where I am at.

But if you listen to some (many here), if Trump gets booted out, it will only get worse. I just don't see how it possibly can.
-------------
On a related note to the original topic -- Biden -- at the convention there was a speech by a 12 year old who stuttered. I did not know Biden was a stutterer.

Any thoughts on that history being the basis for his occasional mis-speaks, where the mind-mouth control just wigs out like it must have when he was a kid? Vs. those who believe he has dementia? Asking anyone here that question.

I don't think a stuttering problem would cause someone to say stupid things which Biden does and has done for a long time. Searching Youtube I found a lot of old clips of comedians making fun of him, including Robin Williams who has been dead for a long time now.

We still need the wall and border security because there will still be at least two groups of people who want to come here illegally. That would be those seeking the free health care that is being promised and MS-13 gang members and other undesirables who can get away with things they could never do in their home countries since we are eliminating police and prisons.

Something I can't figure out about the current Dems is if they are too naive and/or stupid to not realize this or is it actually what they want?

[WiseOne]

With all this talk of post office slowness....I buy A LOT of used books on Amazon. And, I continue to be shocked by how FAST some of them get to me.

Vinny

Post office is more akin to public utility or public infrastructure. How much profit did our national highway system make us last year? What is happening is a challenge to our nation's public resources. Pretty soon we aren't going to need a wall, no one is going to want to come here. I look out at the world and for the first time in my life the United States is no longer at the top of my list for where I would want to live. Our medical system is broken in an extreme way, our public infrastructure is crumbling, our political system is a mess, our monetary system is out of control, and our countries morale is at an all time low. America's secret sauce seems to have run out. There is a group on here that wants to hand control of all these problems to corporate oligopolists to solve...because historically handing control to the wealthy elite has always worked out so well for the common man. Unfortunately many of our politicians are now part of this class as well. The whole things a mess and the only thing anyone can do is point fingers.

These are totally valid concerns. Let's take them one at a time.

Post office: Agree that this is part of the national infrastructure and shouldn't be expected to make money. However, the Post Office's management troubles have been going on a long time. I gather that DeJoy has been trying to streamline the budget by continuing ALREADY EXISTING plans to cut excess capacity (started during the Obama administration), which may or may not be a good idea. Beyond that, I haven't seen any really solid description of exactly what the problems are and what caused them. I've noticed a number of packages getting misdirected or disappearing, then suddenly surfacing weeks or months later. I've also noticed a lot less junk mail, which to me is a good thing but may be a problem for the post office as they have historically depended on it for a large portion of their income. Anyway, if there is a problem, it should be identified first then solved. So far all we have is a House bill that throws money at the Post Office with unclear rationale behind it.

Medical system is broken: First off, how exactly do you mean broken? If you mean that medical care guidance is driven largely by pharmaceutical and device manufacturers who stand to gain the most, and that the whole system is one giant conflict of interest, then I totally agree with you. That is not however Trump's doing, it existed long before he came on the scene. If you mean that a lot of people are uninsured or underinsured, then yes, I'd agree with that also. Again, that all predates Trump's administration. The causes of that could fill a book and has been discussed in this forum at great length. If anything, Trump's efforts at forcing hospitals and medical centers to make their pricing information public, and his recent drug pricing bill, have helped and not hurt matters. And I know he's tried to undermine Obamacare without proposing anything helpful in its place, which is probably why that effort hasn't gone anywhere. Medicare for all might or might not fix these problems, but I tend to think it will either make things worse or blow a giant hole in the federal budget. Or both.

Public infrastructure is crumbling: That's been going on for ages. Several presidents have ignored this problem. The next one is likely to do so as well.

Political system is a mess: Well, we have two parties who disagree with each other and can't get along. Which is about status quo for the past 200+ years. Some of the stories from the 1800s are pretty colorful (e.g. duels, beatings on the Senate floor) and suggest to me that things weren't all that much more amicable in the past.

Monetary system is out of control: say what??

Morale at an all time low: Yes well, hardly unexpected in the circumstances. Take a large population and virtually lock them inside their homes for several months while drumming up fear and anxiety about the new virus and pushing the economy into the crapper. You don't think a lot of people would blow their lids? That's what I think is driving the whole BLM thing. Reopening the economy is really the only way back to normalcy, and that is more likely to happen in Republican hands than Democratic.

Provide more information if you want to start a real discussion? These are important topics to be sure.

[doodle]

sorry that Biden/Harris has morphed into a Trump discussion.

Yes, all of these problems predate Trump. And on issues like immigration I side more with his philosophy. However, if he is so serious about illegals then why doesn't he enact laws that punish those big business owners contracting illegals instead of going after the little people just trying to feed their families?

As far as healthcare, again predates Trump. However, removing the mandate on Obamacare really screwed things up worse. We need a national healthcare system like every other civilized industrial western nation on the planet. Im tired of Republicans thinking private insurance companies are going to solve this. Ask anyone who works in billing department in a hospital...so much expense and waste.

Post office..not sure where root of issue lies but a government agency mandated to deliver mail in rural communities for same price as big cities is not exactly on the same playing field as a UPS or FedEx. However the imagery of postal boxes being collected en masse at seeming behest of trump to make voting less accessible is bad imagery at the least and possibly downright nefarious affront to our democracy.

Monetary system...so tired of Republicans decrying spending on so many social benefits and then coming up with trillions of bailouts when corporate America starts crying. National debt surpassed GDP on his watch and while we can debate the workings of the monetary system ad nauseum, the fact is debt Hawks have suddenly become big spenders when their man is in power.

But most of all, I will be voting straight Democrat across the ticket because to me the Republican party and Trump in particular has stumbled onto a certain message that inspires a certain group of people to do this. And this scares me more than anything. The thing that will knock America off its standing as world leader faster than anything is this



https://images.app.goo.gl/7QwY2tG4XFMByYGN9




**How on Earth does one get image to embed in forum btw?

[Dieter]

As for political system is a mess, I think in recent years it's the Republicans. Refusing or greatly slowing down confirmations durring the Obama years as an example. Not what I remember from the prior 20-30 years.

I know this is contentious, but I also think less willing to work across the isle. When Clinton healthcare plan was being proposed, Republicans countered with something Obamacare like (gross simplification). When Obamacare came up, all stayed away, so policymakers had to go to the left.

So, IMO, Republicans got their six years of great slowdown in government.

Then they had two years of full control.

The biggest things I remember are blowing up the deficits, filling seats, and trying to repeal Obamacare without a counterproposal (other than a secret plan to awesome to share or some such).

So, either the Republicans like the old system, wanted to use people dying because of lack of healthcare as a bargaining chip, or just don't care.

But basically, their plan looked to me to cause chaos and was going to from scratch AFTER they had repealed.

Single payer scares me, but gotta do something about reducing costs and providing coverage for all Americans.

The Post Office fiasco looks similar to me. No plan. Cut, cut, cut with no understanding of the impacts. In the middle of millions sheltering in place. The entire board approved and postmaster general appointed by Trump (Thanks Sanders and McConnell). None with government / USPS experience. A postmaster general without any USPS experience. Almost four years since Trump elected.

Yeah, does seem reasonable to potentially reduce service a bit where loosing a lot of money (M/W/F?), Maybe some rate increases. But I also don't think it has to be directly profitable. Kinda like roads and infrastructure.

Immigration - I think the wall is a waste. More effective ways to provide security. Go after those who hire illegals. Have more temporary field worker Visas (americans don't want those jobs).

Heck, what can we do to help make peoples lives better where they live so don't have urgent desire to come here? End the war on drugs? Be more proactive.


How would the US be different if the deficit spending had been used on infrastructure and other investments in the economy (science, research, high speed internet, ...)?

Including money / law changes to healthcare to expand coverage and reduce costs.


Would save the economy a LOT of money.

[doodle]

How would the US be different if the deficit spending had been used on infrastructure and other investments in the economy (science, research, high speed internet, ...)?

Good point. We're broke and can't afford investment spending but when corporations come crying we suddenly have trillions to hand out. Conservatives by nature have trouble investing in future though as so fixated on retrograde motion...

[flyingpylon]

sorry that Biden/Harris has morphed into a Trump discussion.

This happens because nobody can come up with any reason to support Biden/Harris other than their hatred for Trump.

[Dieter]

sorry that Biden/Harris has morphed into a Trump discussion.

This happens because nobody can come up with any reason to support Biden/Harris other than their hatred for Trump.

This should be fun in this hotbed of civility....

Reproductive choice
Marriage equality
Expand health care (public option in the platform ; not Medicare for all)
Medicare can negotiate drug prices (I think should go further on health reform)
De-criminalize Pot (federal level)
De-emphasize fossil fuels ; cleaner energy
Restore protections from the voting rights act
Science based decisions
Solid reading abilities , teleprompter or not

At least, some items other than "Not Trump", anyways.

[shekels]

sorry that Biden/Harris has morphed into a Trump discussion.

This happens because nobody can come up with any reason to support Biden/Harris other than their hatred for Trump.

This should be fun in this hotbed of civility....

Reproductive choice
Marriage equality
Expand health care (public option in the platform ; not Medicare for all)
Medicare can negotiate drug prices (I think should go further on health reform)
De-criminalize Pot (federal level)
De-emphasize fossil fuels ; cleaner energy
Restore protections from the voting rights act
Science based decisions
Solid reading abilities , teleprompter or not

At least, some items other than "Not Trump", anyways.

Based on my opinion only
Reproductive choice -- States should decide..
Marriage equality -- Don't care. Very low priority
Expand health care (public option in the platform ; not Medicare for all) -- Enforce existing Laws, and break up medical monopoly's. then decide
Medicare can negotiate drug prices (I think should go further on health reform) -- Enforce existing Laws, and break up medical monopoly's. then decide
De-criminalize Pot (federal level) -- Fine,Don't care. Very low priority
De-emphasize fossil fuels ; cleaner energy -- I don't see this as the President's/ Government duty.
Restore protections from the voting rights act-- Don't know, have not investigated. Yes on I.D . to vote.
Science based decisions -- Science will be settled when Hell freezes over. Just look at HCQ and Masks. I don't see this as the President's/ Government duty to mandate masks or vaccines.
Solid reading abilities , teleprompter or not So who is controlling the Teleprompter. Who is behind the curtain pulling the strings.

So most of the Items for Not Trump are not a big deal to me.

[flyingpylon]

sorry that Biden/Harris has morphed into a Trump discussion.

This happens because nobody can come up with any reason to support Biden/Harris other than their hatred for Trump.

This should be fun in this hotbed of civility....

Reproductive choice
Marriage equality
Expand health care (public option in the platform ; not Medicare for all)
Medicare can negotiate drug prices (I think should go further on health reform)
De-criminalize Pot (federal level)
De-emphasize fossil fuels ; cleaner energy
Restore protections from the voting rights act
Science based decisions
Solid reading abilities , teleprompter or not

At least, some items other than "Not Trump", anyways.

Well at least those are some “reasons”, thanks. I’ll leave them unchallenged lest I be deemed uncivil.

[shekels]

If Biden/Harris ever allowed questioning.
Maybe someone can ask these Questions.
Some of them are pretty good.


https://www.breitbart.com/2020-election ... la-harris/



45 Questions the Media Should Ask Joe Biden and Kamala Harris

[jalanlong]

With all this talk of post office slowness....I buy A LOT of used books on Amazon. And, I continue to be shocked by how FAST some of them get to me.

Vinny

Post office is more akin to public utility or public infrastructure. How much profit did our national highway system make us last year? What is happening is a challenge to our nation's public resources. Pretty soon we aren't going to need a wall, no one is going to want to come here. I look out at the world and for the first time in my life the United States is no longer at the top of my list for where I would want to live. Our medical system is broken in an extreme way, our public infrastructure is crumbling, our political system is a mess, our monetary system is out of control, and our countries morale is at an all time low. America's secret sauce seems to have run out. There is a group on here that wants to hand control of all these problems to corporate oligopolists to solve...because historically handing control to the wealthy elite has always worked out so well for the common man. Unfortunately many of our politicians are now part of this class as well. The whole things a mess and the only thing anyone can do is point fingers.

Political system is a mess: Well, we have two parties who disagree with each other and can't get along. Which is about status quo for the past 200+ years. Some of the stories from the 1800s are pretty colorful (e.g. duels, beatings on the Senate floor) and suggest to me that things weren't all that much more amicable in the past.

Whenever I head talking heads or people on the street say that politics is dirtier than ever or this will be the dirtiest campaign ever, it shows their recency bias because I don't think they remember in 1800 when Jeffersonians accused Adams of being a Hermaphrodite and Adams supporters said if Jefferson won the election then "murder, robbery, rape, adultery and incest will openly be taught and practiced." Or the 1828 election when the newspapers accused both candidates of being pimps and adulterers. Or 1928 when Hoover (and his wife!) accused Al Smith of being a drunkard because of his opposition to Prohibition and claimed they would fill the cabinet with bootleggers.

[jalanlong]

mocracy.

Monetary system...so tired of Republicans decrying spending on so many social benefits and then coming up with trillions of bailouts when corporate America starts crying. National debt surpassed GDP on his watch and while we can debate the workings of the monetary system ad nauseum, the fact is debt Hawks have suddenly become big spenders when their man is in power.

Peter Schiff had an excellent speech about this on his podcast last week. Republicans long ago gave up the mantle of being fiscally responsible and by doing so they played right into Democrat's hands about being only for the rich and not caring about the little people. Once you accept the idea that government spending stimulates the economy, then you cannot argue why $1 million is good but $3 million is not. Then you just look cheap and appear as if you don't care.

[Ad Orientem]

More than two dozen former Republican lawmakers endorse Joe Biden on first day of GOP convention

https://www.cnn.com/2020/08/24/politics ... index.html

[glennds]

sorry that Biden/Harris has morphed into a Trump discussion.

This happens because nobody can come up with any reason to support Biden/Harris other than their hatred for Trump.

I heard Warren Buffett comment that the concept of negative voting (i.e. voting for one candidate for not much more reason than the fact that you hate the opposing candidate), is something that he did not notice to be prevalent until recently. It got me wondering if it is known what % of people voted for Trump in 2016 merely because they hated Hillary. I know quite a few in that category.
And likewise how many will vote for Biden this time around simply because they hate Trump?

Or better yet, to prove or disprove Buffett's observation, how much has negative voting increased over time? A lot or not at all?
Maybe negative voting is the natural default if none of the options are compelling enough to earn a voter's enthusiastic vote?

This post has nothing to do with any particular candidate, more I'm just speculating about the phenomenon of negative voting as opposed to positive voting, so please don't feel the need to defend or bash Trump. Based on what chatter I hear, this ought to be an election pretty rich in negative voting both ways.

[Cortopassi]

More than two dozen former Republican lawmakers endorse Joe Biden on first day of GOP convention

https://www.cnn.com/2020/08/24/politics ... index.html

--Negative voting in 2016 is why I voted for Trump, and will almost exclusively be why I will vote for Biden this year.

A smattering of adjectives Trump has used against others, applied randomly to this list. I was amazed I could find enough to cover all of them. Well, I guess not really amazed. He will need to come up with more!

What I found most interesting this weekend -- the tapes recording his older sister. In any reasonable world, that would still be headline news. In this world, it barely registered. Pretty much, yeah, we all know that already.

I am sure this week will be a unifying experience for America. Or maybe not. Maybe just his base....

Texas Rep. Steve Bartlett, Loser
Pennsylvania Rep. Bill Clinger, Lowlife
Missouri Rep. Tom Coleman, Cheatin
Hawaii Rep. Charles Djou, Crazy
Oklahoma Rep. Mickey Edwards, Little
Maryland Rep. Wayne Gilchrest, Lyin
Pennsylvania Rep. Jim Greenwood, Sleepy
South Carolina Rep. Bob Inglis, Creepy
Arizona Rep. Jim Kolbe, Nervous
California Rep. Steve Kuykendall, Pocahontas
Illinois Rep. Ray LaHood, Phony
Iowa Rep. Jim Leach, Lightweight
New York Rep. Susan Molinari, Flunky
Maryland Rep. Connie Morella, Crooked
Mississippi Rep. Mike Parker, Alfred E Neuman
New York Rep. Jack Quinn, Low Energy
Rhode Island Rep. Claudine Schneider, Deranged
Connecticut Rep. Christopher Shays, Dog
Vermont Rep. Peter Smith, Horseface
Texas Rep. Alan Steelman, Leaker
New York Rep. Jim Walsh, Slimeball
Virginia Rep. Bill Whitehurst, Sloppy
New Jersey Rep. Dick Zimmer, Dumb as a Rock

[shekels]

More than two dozen former Republican lawmakers endorse Joe Biden on first day of GOP convention

https://www.cnn.com/2020/08/24/politics ... index.html

--Negative voting in 2016 is why I voted for Trump, and will almost exclusively be why I will vote for Biden this year.

A smattering of adjectives Trump has used against others, applied randomly to this list. I was amazed I could find enough to cover all of them. Well, I guess not really amazed. He will need to come up with more!

What I found most interesting this weekend -- the tapes recording his older sister. In any reasonable world, that would still be headline news. In this world, it barely registered. Pretty much, yeah, we all know that already.

I am sure this week will be a unifying experience for America. Or maybe not. Maybe just his base....

Texas Rep. Steve Bartlett, Loser
Pennsylvania Rep. Bill Clinger, Lowlife
Missouri Rep. Tom Coleman, Cheatin
Hawaii Rep. Charles Djou, Crazy
Oklahoma Rep. Mickey Edwards, Little
Maryland Rep. Wayne Gilchrest, Lyin
Pennsylvania Rep. Jim Greenwood, Sleepy
South Carolina Rep. Bob Inglis, Creepy
Arizona Rep. Jim Kolbe, Nervous
California Rep. Steve Kuykendall, Pocahontas
Illinois Rep. Ray LaHood, Phony
Iowa Rep. Jim Leach, Lightweight
New York Rep. Susan Molinari, Flunky
Maryland Rep. Connie Morella, Crooked
Mississippi Rep. Mike Parker, Alfred E Neuman
New York Rep. Jack Quinn, Low Energy
Rhode Island Rep. Claudine Schneider, Deranged
Connecticut Rep. Christopher Shays, Dog
Vermont Rep. Peter Smith, Horseface
Texas Rep. Alan Steelman, Leaker
New York Rep. Jim Walsh, Slimeball
Virginia Rep. Bill Whitehurst, Sloppy
New Jersey Rep. Dick Zimmer, Dumb as a Rock

Given the state of things today, the names he calls These A$$Ole look pretty tame to me.

[shekels]

Well Folks,
Trump Campaign Announces President Trump’s 2nd Term Agenda:

Just size up Trump's agenda and Biden's agenda.

Who do you Believe?
I wish you all well.





https://joebiden.com/joes-vision/

https://www.donaldjtrump.com/media/trum ... ng-for-you

[Cortopassi]

Well Folks,
Trump Campaign Announces President Trump’s 2nd Term Agenda:

Just size up Trump's agenda and Biden's agenda.

Who do you Believe?
I wish you all well.





https://joebiden.com/joes-vision/

https://www.donaldjtrump.com/media/trum ... ng-for-you

Looks like a good list for someone running for president the first term... oops, he's already been there 4 years. With the first two years having both houses of congress...

Trump will not get the house back and may lose the senate. Good luck with Trump getting anything done the next four years.

I'm surprised he did not mention the Supreme Court?

[vnatale]

More than two dozen former Republican lawmakers endorse Joe Biden on first day of GOP convention

https://www.cnn.com/2020/08/24/politics ... index.html

Fair to say this is unprecedented for either side?

Vinny