Resolved: that President Trump has praiseworthy accomplishments

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technovelist
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Resolved: that President Trump has praiseworthy accomplishments

Post by technovelist » Wed Aug 05, 2020 8:31 am

I'll take the affirmative side, whereas @vnatale seems to want to take the negative.

1. Reduction in regulations that stifle economic activity
2. No new wars
3. Withdrawal of troops from overseas
4. Getting the EU to pay more for their own defense
5. Tax cuts for most Americans
6. The First Step Act to reduce sentences for people convicted of non-violent offenses (mostly minorities)
7. VA Choice to allow veterans to seek private care if their VA hospitals are backed up
8. Reduction in government prohibitions of hemp and CBD
9. Increasing transparency in health care costs
10. Increased ability for consumers to import drugs from Canada
11. Moving the US embassy in Israel to Jerusalem, as asked by the Israelis
12. Arranged for numerous US hostages to be freed from other countries
13. Supported and signed Right to Try legislation to allow terminally ill patients to access experimental drugs

I'll come up with more as time permits, but I think that's a good start.
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Re: Resolved: that President Trump has praiseworthy accomplishments

Post by Cortopassi » Wed Aug 05, 2020 8:54 am

tech, I know you got me on ignore, but that's a good list and I hope Vinny is up for the challenge.
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Re: Resolved: that President Trump has praiseworthy accomplishments

Post by Xan » Wed Aug 05, 2020 8:55 am

He's pushed school choice farther along than anyone else (at least at the federal level).
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Re: Resolved: that President Trump has praiseworthy accomplishments

Post by l82start » Wed Aug 05, 2020 9:00 am

Xan wrote:
Wed Aug 05, 2020 8:55 am
He's pushed school choice farther along than anyone else (at least at the federal level).
i wish he would go the full distance on that one....
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Re: Resolved: that President Trump has praiseworthy accomplishments

Post by vnatale » Wed Aug 05, 2020 10:03 am

technovelist wrote:
Wed Aug 05, 2020 8:31 am
I'll take the affirmative side, whereas @vnatale seems to want to take the negative.

1. Reduction in regulations that stifle economic activity
2. No new wars
3. Withdrawal of troops from overseas
4. Getting the EU to pay more for their own defense
5. Tax cuts for most Americans
6. The First Step Act to reduce sentences for people convicted of non-violent offenses (mostly minorities)
7. VA Choice to allow veterans to seek private care if their VA hospitals are backed up
8. Reduction in government prohibitions of hemp and CBD
9. Increasing transparency in health care costs
10. Increased ability for consumers to import drugs from Canada
11. Moving the US embassy in Israel to Jerusalem, as asked by the Israelis
12. Arranged for numerous US hostages to be freed from other countries
13. Supported and signed Right to Try legislation to allow terminally ill patients to access experimental drugs

I'll come up with more as time permits, but I think that's a good start.
First of all, I will be honest and NOT an apologist for just being anti-Trump.

Second of all, I'll give some quick responses to the above. Others I want to spend more time thinking about them.

Finally, I'll couch some of my answers, stipulating that if what you say is true then I'm in agreement.

Rather than answer inline above I'll recreate the list here with comments.

1. Reduction in regulations that stifle economic activity - Will come back to later. But I've never accepted this conservative / Republican mantra

2. No new wars - A big plus. This was one of his campaign promises and, so far, he has fulfilled it. A good outcome of his following his instincts.

3. Withdrawal of troops from overseas - What has actually happened to date over 3+ years into his presidency? Overall, I believe we have too many troops too many places but the withdrawals needs to be managed in a planned, optimal manner. NOT the way Trump does anything. His manner is far more whimsical.

4. Getting the EU to pay more for their own defense - Who can argue against that? But, again, one can find fault in the his way of being able to manage a successful implementation. And, also again, how much of this is bluster and how much of this is actual results?

5. Tax cuts for most Americans - Did not agree with this or Bush's. It's again the Republican / conservative mantra that this always more than pays for itself leading to all kinds of increased economic activity. Last reports I saw was that this one did not. And, all the Republicans / conservatives said the sky was going to fall if Clinton's 1993 tax increases took place. Instead we have the roaring 90s until 2000. I don't want to pay any more taxes than the next person. But if you are going to spend the money then you need to tax to pay for those expenditures. And, of course, each time the Republicans are in power the Republicans / conservatives drop all concern for deficits.

6. The First Step Act to reduce sentences for people convicted of non-violent offenses (mostly minorities) - A good one.

7. VA Choice to allow veterans to seek private care if their VA hospitals are backed up - Another good one.

8. Reduction in government prohibitions of hemp and CBD - A good one but wonder what its overall impact it's going to be on the common person so a minor accomplishment.

9. Increasing transparency in health care costs - We desperately need it. But what exactly has happened three plus years into his presidency? In other words, what do I know today that I did not in December 2016?

10. Increased ability for consumers to import drugs from Canada - Good one. But HOW increased? Major? Minor?

11. Moving the US embassy in Israel to Jerusalem, as asked by the Israelis - Minor and pandering to his base.

12. Arranged for numerous US hostages to be freed from other countries - Other presidents have not? Makes for headlines but quite minor in the light of all else going on in our country.

13. Supported and signed Right to Try legislation to allow terminally ill patients to access experimental drugs - A good one. When did this go into effect and this includes ALL Americans?


In sum, I'm agreeing with more than I'm not. But I'm not agreeing to many that affect a broad swarth of the American population and, almost none for the world population.

Vinny
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Re: Resolved: that President Trump has praiseworthy accomplishments

Post by vnatale » Wed Aug 05, 2020 10:04 am

Xan wrote:
Wed Aug 05, 2020 8:55 am
He's pushed school choice farther along than anyone else (at least at the federal level).
I am for that. But how successful has he been? In other words, over three years into his presidency, what have been the actual, concrete results?

Vinny
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Re: Resolved: that President Trump has praiseworthy accomplishments

Post by vnatale » Wed Aug 05, 2020 10:24 am

I will use this topic to take the opportunity to raise some questions (one per post).


Three plus years into his presidency how is that Wall coming? How much of it has been done? How much still to go?

Finally, how much has Mexico paid towards its cost?

Vinny
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Re: Resolved: that President Trump has praiseworthy accomplishments

Post by vnatale » Wed Aug 05, 2020 10:27 am

How do you evaluate his handling of this virus crisis?

Did he and his administration put the full force of the government behind it in terms of managing it in a logical, organized manner?

Do you believe he put his personal interests LAST in all the actions he took and all he said while putting the interests of the American people FIRST?

Vinny
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Re: Resolved: that President Trump has praiseworthy accomplishments

Post by technovelist » Wed Aug 05, 2020 10:52 am

vnatale wrote:
Wed Aug 05, 2020 10:27 am
How do you evaluate his handling of this virus crisis?

Did he and his administration put the full force of the government behind it in terms of managing it in a logical, organized manner?

Do you believe he put his personal interests LAST in all the actions he took and all he said while putting the interests of the American people FIRST?

Vinny
I'd give him a B on the overall handling. I agree with most of what he did other than allowing Fauci to influence him too much in keeping the country locked down too long. That's obviously a big problem but he's not a doctor and so had to rely on experts, who unfortunately gave him contradictory and changing advice.

He did put the federal government behind it as much as he could without much cooperation from the legislature. He used the Defense Production Act when necessary to get private companies to help out with ventilators, PPE, and the like.

I believe he has put his personal interests last and the interests of the American people first.

Note that I'm convinced that he honestly believes that his not getting re-elected would be a catastrophe for the American people, and I agree with him because of the horrible proposals of the Democrats. Thus, I believe that, all other things being equal, his trying to increase his chances of getting re-elected is in fact in the interests of the American people.
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Re: Resolved: that President Trump has praiseworthy accomplishments

Post by stuper1 » Wed Aug 05, 2020 12:50 pm

I don't know much about the details, but isn't there something praiseworthy in him standing up to China and not allowing them so freely to steal our trade secrets, etc.?
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Re: Resolved: that President Trump has praiseworthy accomplishments

Post by technovelist » Wed Aug 05, 2020 4:44 pm

stuper1 wrote:
Wed Aug 05, 2020 12:50 pm
I don't know much about the details, but isn't there something praiseworthy in him standing up to China and not allowing them so freely to steal our trade secrets, etc.?
Agreed. I was trying to come up with a list that would be relatively uncontroversial.
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Re: Resolved: that President Trump has praiseworthy accomplishments

Post by jalanlong » Wed Aug 05, 2020 5:33 pm

vnatale wrote:
Wed Aug 05, 2020 10:24 am
I will use this topic to take the opportunity to raise some questions (one per post).


Three plus years into his presidency how is that Wall coming? How much of it has been done? How much still to go?

Finally, how much has Mexico paid towards its cost?

Vinny
To be fair, did his supporters really think a wall was going to be built? Isn't that one of those symbolic promises people don't take literally? Like Rick Santorum promising to ban pornography, Herman Cain promising to veto any bill longer than 3 pages, Newt Gingrich promising a moon colony by the end of his second term and Dennis Kucinich promising to arrest George Bush.

I am not a huge Trump supporter but that is the sort of stuff that grinds on me. The media and his opponents holding him to standards they have never held previous presidents to. A week into his term I saw one of the major nightly news programs spend over 15 mins of airtime "fact-checking" various Trump statements. Now I am all for fact-checking politicians. But come on, did the nightly news EVER fact check Obama on anything, let alone spend half of a nightly news broadcast on it? Do they ever fact check AOC or Pelosi?

Every politician embellishes/lies or says things that are meant to be more figurative. The media likes to bring up constantly "how is the wall coming along" but they never asked Obama "how is the closing of Guantanamo Bay" coming along?
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