Carnivore Diet Experiment

[Kriegsspiel]

Now remember, before any final, take a pre-game dump

Van Wilder was such a good movie. Ryan Reynolds is a funny motherfucker. I had something similar happen to me when I was taking the ACT.

[Kriegsspiel]

BUT these stories don't get to my question re no meat eating and my galloping through a mid-March afternoon. Any correlation between Veggie-ness and a better jogging experience? Thank you.

If it feels good, just keep doing it. Some endurance people do better on a low carb diet, some do better on high carbs.

[WiseOne]

There are a bunch of articles in the medical literature about this. Athletes are switching to a low carb diet because it improves their performance compared to the "carb-loading" regimen in controlled studies.

Seriously, I am amazed at how many modern problems low carb diets solve. A big reason for me to stay on it apart from weight issues: it appears to be protective against Alzheimers. i.e. Alzheimer's is actually a metabolic disease. And that's unfortunately a nearly universal affliction in my family.

[bedraggled]

WiseOne,
Since I had the experience of eliminating meat and finding my jogging ability improved, is that just me? And is no correlation indicated?

Thanks.

[Mark Leavy]

Bedraggled. Carbs are great for running. No question there at all. And if you are cutting meat, you are probably upping carbs. They are a hot, fast fuel.

They just aren't good for health and a lot marathoners die of cardiac disease due to the enormous oxidative damage that carbohydrate fuel imposes.

Fats can be used for aerobic exercise once you are adapted. They work differently than carbs and depending on the type of event, some athletes do better on fats than carbs. I think the jury is still out on that. The stoichiometry for fat is different than carbs and you only need about 75% of the oxygen for the same energy output. I can hold my breath for significantly longer when I am deeply in ketosis. But that is not running.

It's just that one form of fuel runs hot and dirty and generates a ton of reactive oxidant species (ROS) and the other runs clean and strong. You place your bets and you take your chances.

Mark

[bedraggled]

Mark,
Thanks for the comment. Thirty-eight years hence I'm not at the track anymore but that was a notable experience. The tendonitis finally calmed down, so I get to do light weights again.

BTW, from what WiseOne mentioned about the virus, you and I may be on airplanes in 2021. If so, life will certainly be more interesting. There is still a chunk of Europe to see. New Zealand, Singapore and South Korea come to mind. Australia sounds good and we have several residents posting here. DW has seen the Northern Lights My father saw them during WW2. And that leaves me. Maybe a cruise from Bergen, Norway. Maybe fly to Helsinki. Tough to get to Helsinki. Heck, it wasn't easy getting to Oslo, a nice city.

Many credit card points being accumulated but no trips taken. (May be an idea for a thread).

[jalanlong]

This reminds me of the discussion in the Coronavirus thread about how is the average person supposed to know what to believe. Some experts tells us to eat plants, some say focus on meat.I have friends in US who swear any carb makes them an addict and causes massive weight gain. I have friends in Italy and France who eat pastries and pasta every meal and are fit and healthy.

Some societies eat little meat and are healthy by our standards. Yet Hong Kong has the highest per capita consumption of meat and the longest lifespan.

Is it all individual? I took a DNA test and it said I should focus on high carb/low fat. But other experts say DNA determining what diet you would do best on is bunk.

[dualstow]

...
Some societies eat little meat and are healthy by our standards. Yet Hong Kong has the highest per capita consumption of meat and the longest lifespan.
...

I think Hong Kongers boast the best sperm count, too. At least, that’s what I read in the 90s.

[Cortopassi]

This reminds me of the discussion in the Coronavirus thread about how is the average person supposed to know what to believe. Some experts tells us to eat plants, some say focus on meat.I have friends in US who swear any carb makes them an addict and causes massive weight gain. I have friends in Italy and France who eat pastries and pasta every meal and are fit and healthy.

Some societies eat little meat and are healthy by our standards. Yet Hong Kong has the highest per capita consumption of meat and the longest lifespan.

Is it all individual? I took a DNA test and it said I should focus on high carb/low fat. But other experts say DNA determining what diet you would do best on is bunk.

Yeah, you can find a book or internet site or video or theory pretty much supporting any side of anything out there. Tough to choose what to believe.

[boglerdude]

It's not complicated. Eat less, or burn more calories (walk/exercise) to lose weight. If you don't want to do that, come to terms with it.

Protein, fiber, vegetables, and a multivitamin.

The rationalizations and fad diet chasing is trying to avoid the pain of eating less and the pain of re-wiring away from dopamine-burst food (sugar/salt/meat/fat)

Over months and years, incrementally dilute juice/soda for less sugar, sneak more vegetables into food, swap factory-farmed meat for humanely raised or plant protein.

[WiseOne]

Why not experiment for yourself?

Try low-fat/high carb for a while and see how you feel & perform on it, by whatever measures you want. Weight, energy, aches and pains, need for asthma inhalers, blood sugar (tested yourself with a glucometer), blood pressure if that's high. Then try low carb/high fat - but you have to give that at least a month because it will take that long to adapt.

If you do better with one vs the other, then you'll know what you're best suited for. The idea of a DNA test sounds like snake oil to me.

p.s. if you are on ANY medications especially for high blood pressure, diabetes, or heart arrhythmias, do not mess with diets without consulting your physician. Likely you'll need to be monitored especially during the low carb trial, because your meds may need to be adjusted (usually in the downward direction).

[Kriegsspiel]

Yea just try different things and see what works. Like, Mark Bell is all about the carnivore diet and talks a lot about how it works really well for him. Then you have the dude from Art Of Manliness who said that he found out that a high carb low fat diet works best for him.

[jalanlong]

Yea just try different things and see what works. Like, Mark Bell is all about the carnivore diet and talks a lot about how it works really well for him. Then you have the dude from Art Of Manliness who said that he found out that a high carb low fat diet works best for him.

That is why I am doing the 30 day Carnivore experiment to see how I feel. Of course even if I lose weight and do well on it, there is no guarantee it is because of the meat. It could be just from the fact I ditched sodas and pizza and ate less. To really know I would have to move from this to a high carb/low fat diet but maintain the same calories and food quality and see how that goes.

[Kriegsspiel]

Yea just try different things and see what works. Like, Mark Bell is all about the carnivore diet and talks a lot about how it works really well for him. Then you have the dude from Art Of Manliness who said that he found out that a high carb low fat diet works best for him.

That is why I am doing the 30 day Carnivore experiment to see how I feel. Of course even if I lose weight and do well on it, there is no guarantee it is because of the meat. It could be just from the fact I ditched sodas and pizza and ate less. To really know I would have to move from this to a high carb/low fat diet but maintain the same calories and food quality and see how that goes.

Sounds like the same "30 day" thing from the Whole 30 marketing strategy. Just losing weight and not being fat improves so much, the way you go about it doesn't really matter. Some morbidly obese person who did 30 days of a tomato juice fast or ate only potatoes (like Penn the magician) would probably feel much better at the end of the 30 days too.

The only things that are actually essential are complete proteins, essential fatty acids, and vitamins/minerals.

[yankees60]

Why not experiment for yourself?

Try low-fat/high carb for a while and see how you feel & perform on it, by whatever measures you want. Weight, energy, aches and pains, need for asthma inhalers, blood sugar (tested yourself with a glucometer), blood pressure if that's high. Then try low carb/high fat - but you have to give that at least a month because it will take that long to adapt.

If you do better with one vs the other, then you'll know what you're best suited for. The idea of a DNA test sounds like snake oil to me.

p.s. if you are on ANY medications especially for high blood pressure, diabetes, or heart arrhythmias, do not mess with diets without consulting your physician. Likely you'll need to be monitored especially during the low carb trial, because your meds may need to be adjusted (usually in the downward direction).

If someone has never had any blood sugar or diabetes issues would you recommend checking blood sugar every so often? Monthly? Quarterly?

I'd never heard of one of these until you mentioned it above.

This seems to be an extremely high rated (and oftentimes bought) one at Amazon. Do any of the supplies "go bad" over time? It seems like a lot of supplies aimed at a diabetic who will be frequently using them as opposed to someone just using them periodically.

https://www.amazon.com/Metene-Diabetes- ... op?ie=UTF8

Vinny

[WiseOne]

Glucometers are cheap and the strips are easy to find. They will have expiration dates on the package.

I confess I haven't managed to get the nerve up yet to get one myself...I know I should though. Monitoring your blood sugar response to specific foods is a powerful tool for optimizing health. There is a series of youtube videos by a diabetic guy and his non-diabetic wife testing their response to pairs of foods, like Coca-cola and a banana. Super interesting results.

[yankees60]

Glucometers are cheap and the strips are easy to find. They will have expiration dates on the package.

I confess I haven't managed to get the nerve up yet to get one myself...I know I should though. Monitoring your blood sugar response to specific foods is a powerful tool for optimizing health. There is a series of youtube videos by a diabetic guy and his non-diabetic wife testing their response to pairs of foods, like Coca-cola and a banana. Super interesting results.

That one I cited above is "cheap". And, based upon your response above, I just bought it. Will arrive this Thursday. Will report to you the results once I start using it. However, I can have tons of inertia actually using something I buy so no promises when I do actually starting using it.

Vinny

[Cortopassi]

For a change of pace from politics, I have been lo-carb for 1.5 weeks now after coming close to 200lbs a week ago Sunday. As part of this I always cut out mindless snacking too, which is probably a bigger culprit.

Getting close to 200 always mentally me want to go back on Keto, but I always fall off.

Today I am 193, which is almost always where I plateau. Joints and energy better than they have been in months. I know this is the result every time. I feel better, have more energy, clothes fit better, etc.

But, I can almost guarantee within the next month or two some event will cause me to fall off (Halloween!?!) and I will start an up cycle again. I wish I could figure out how to break that. Every time I tell myself I won't. It's not that I'm hungry, I rarely am. It is those bored periods after dinner where I just start snacking.

[Xan]

Have you tried changing the snack? Maybe roast some broccoli in a little olive oil and lime juice. Have some of that sitting out for munching on.

[jalanlong]

I have tried multiple times but I have the hardest time on low carb and carnivore. I have trouble making it a few days..the longest I have made it is 2 weeks. I know there is a transition period etc but how do I continue to fight thru something that makes me feel like crap? At what point do I say that this is just not the way for me?

I read varying opinions on whether there is little difference between humans and we are all built to eat the same things or if it really varies from person to person and one person will thrive on low carb while another will do better with high carb/low fat.

For what it is worth (and I dont know what they are worth) I used my DNA from 23 and Me and sent it to two DNA nutrition analysis companies. Both came back and said with my DNA I should eat high carb, moderate protein and low fat. The opposite of the low carb I have tried to eat. But there are plenty of experts who say that DNA diets are hooey.

[Cortopassi]

Have you tried changing the snack? Maybe roast some broccoli in a little olive oil and lime juice. Have some of that sitting out for munching on.

In this latest attempt my snack has been sugar-free jello. Works pretty well and almost no calories. My previous snacks have always been spoons of peanut butter. sure not many carbs but a hell of a lot of calories!

[Xan]

Sugar-free isn't all that great. It still makes you crave sugar, still makes you stay hungry. It's not that much better than sugar, I understand.

Make your snack something you're not all that excited about eating.

[l82start]

almond butter, pork rinds, dark chocolate (in moderation) cheese, mixed nuts (not peanuts they are not as keto friendly) are a few of my go to snacks...

[doodle]

Ok, one more question. If food companies worked with scientists to develop products that tapped into the brains evolutionary pleasure centers to create drug like chemical addictions to their products that they then heavily marketed to kids which in turn also caused health issues, would you have a problem with that?

[doodle]

Would you be willing to accept that in any situation where the behavior of one individual impacts the life of another regulation could be justifiable?

That being the case how do you propose to solve a health care issue where the health problems brought about by an extremely poor diet and lifestyle is paid for by society at large that then has to treat the medical problems of these individuals? If these people's personal health decisions impact other individuals then we have two choices, either we pay for their treatment but have some method to sway their behavior to better choices (not every regulation has to forbid things, it could simply make it more difficult or costly to procure something) or we just let them die on the street outside the hospital if they can't afford treatment. If a man goes into hospital with heart issues because he is 200 pounds overweight and has type 2 diabetes but doesn't have enough money or credit to pay for treatment should the hospital put him on street to die? If not, then who is going to pay for his treatment that is arising because of poor health choices? If society at large, then don't they have a right to stipulate certain things regarding this individuals choices if they are going to be paying for the treatment arising because of his choices.

bring back debtors prison? just throwing it out there.. i haven't thought through the implications or the down sides....

scenario....Economy depends on cheap labor to increase profits. Food companies create fast, affordable food that is very tasty and addictive yet detrimental to health. Workers eat because cheap and easily available and they are addicted to it...not to mention it is marketed to their kids incessantly.. They have health problems because of this. They have a choice, die...or go into debtors prison for medical treatment? Meanwhile, corporations CEOs are shielded from any debt or responsibility by corporate firewall. They can take on debt, pollute, poison whatever and when shit hits the fan dissolve company and walk away? Is this the vision for how to make America great again? I think I'll throw in with the Danish, or some other European nation. You guys can have this country.