Carnivore Diet Experiment

[jalanlong]

Yea just try different things and see what works. Like, Mark Bell is all about the carnivore diet and talks a lot about how it works really well for him. Then you have the dude from Art Of Manliness who said that he found out that a high carb low fat diet works best for him.

That is why I am doing the 30 day Carnivore experiment to see how I feel. Of course even if I lose weight and do well on it, there is no guarantee it is because of the meat. It could be just from the fact I ditched sodas and pizza and ate less. To really know I would have to move from this to a high carb/low fat diet but maintain the same calories and food quality and see how that goes.

[Kriegsspiel]

Yea just try different things and see what works. Like, Mark Bell is all about the carnivore diet and talks a lot about how it works really well for him. Then you have the dude from Art Of Manliness who said that he found out that a high carb low fat diet works best for him.

That is why I am doing the 30 day Carnivore experiment to see how I feel. Of course even if I lose weight and do well on it, there is no guarantee it is because of the meat. It could be just from the fact I ditched sodas and pizza and ate less. To really know I would have to move from this to a high carb/low fat diet but maintain the same calories and food quality and see how that goes.

Sounds like the same "30 day" thing from the Whole 30 marketing strategy. Just losing weight and not being fat improves so much, the way you go about it doesn't really matter. Some morbidly obese person who did 30 days of a tomato juice fast or ate only potatoes (like Penn the magician) would probably feel much better at the end of the 30 days too.

The only things that are actually essential are complete proteins, essential fatty acids, and vitamins/minerals.

[vnatale]

Why not experiment for yourself?

Try low-fat/high carb for a while and see how you feel & perform on it, by whatever measures you want. Weight, energy, aches and pains, need for asthma inhalers, blood sugar (tested yourself with a glucometer), blood pressure if that's high. Then try low carb/high fat - but you have to give that at least a month because it will take that long to adapt.

If you do better with one vs the other, then you'll know what you're best suited for. The idea of a DNA test sounds like snake oil to me.

p.s. if you are on ANY medications especially for high blood pressure, diabetes, or heart arrhythmias, do not mess with diets without consulting your physician. Likely you'll need to be monitored especially during the low carb trial, because your meds may need to be adjusted (usually in the downward direction).

If someone has never had any blood sugar or diabetes issues would you recommend checking blood sugar every so often? Monthly? Quarterly?

I'd never heard of one of these until you mentioned it above.

This seems to be an extremely high rated (and oftentimes bought) one at Amazon. Do any of the supplies "go bad" over time? It seems like a lot of supplies aimed at a diabetic who will be frequently using them as opposed to someone just using them periodically.

https://www.amazon.com/Metene-Diabetes- ... op?ie=UTF8

Vinny

[WiseOne]

Glucometers are cheap and the strips are easy to find. They will have expiration dates on the package.

I confess I haven't managed to get the nerve up yet to get one myself...I know I should though. Monitoring your blood sugar response to specific foods is a powerful tool for optimizing health. There is a series of youtube videos by a diabetic guy and his non-diabetic wife testing their response to pairs of foods, like Coca-cola and a banana. Super interesting results.

[vnatale]

Glucometers are cheap and the strips are easy to find. They will have expiration dates on the package.

I confess I haven't managed to get the nerve up yet to get one myself...I know I should though. Monitoring your blood sugar response to specific foods is a powerful tool for optimizing health. There is a series of youtube videos by a diabetic guy and his non-diabetic wife testing their response to pairs of foods, like Coca-cola and a banana. Super interesting results.

That one I cited above is "cheap". And, based upon your response above, I just bought it. Will arrive this Thursday. Will report to you the results once I start using it. However, I can have tons of inertia actually using something I buy so no promises when I do actually starting using it.

Vinny

[Cortopassi]

For a change of pace from politics, I have been lo-carb for 1.5 weeks now after coming close to 200lbs a week ago Sunday. As part of this I always cut out mindless snacking too, which is probably a bigger culprit.

Getting close to 200 always mentally me want to go back on Keto, but I always fall off.

Today I am 193, which is almost always where I plateau. Joints and energy better than they have been in months. I know this is the result every time. I feel better, have more energy, clothes fit better, etc.

But, I can almost guarantee within the next month or two some event will cause me to fall off (Halloween!?!) and I will start an up cycle again. I wish I could figure out how to break that. Every time I tell myself I won't. It's not that I'm hungry, I rarely am. It is those bored periods after dinner where I just start snacking.

[Xan]

Have you tried changing the snack? Maybe roast some broccoli in a little olive oil and lime juice. Have some of that sitting out for munching on.

[jalanlong]

I have tried multiple times but I have the hardest time on low carb and carnivore. I have trouble making it a few days..the longest I have made it is 2 weeks. I know there is a transition period etc but how do I continue to fight thru something that makes me feel like crap? At what point do I say that this is just not the way for me?

I read varying opinions on whether there is little difference between humans and we are all built to eat the same things or if it really varies from person to person and one person will thrive on low carb while another will do better with high carb/low fat.

For what it is worth (and I dont know what they are worth) I used my DNA from 23 and Me and sent it to two DNA nutrition analysis companies. Both came back and said with my DNA I should eat high carb, moderate protein and low fat. The opposite of the low carb I have tried to eat. But there are plenty of experts who say that DNA diets are hooey.

[Cortopassi]

Have you tried changing the snack? Maybe roast some broccoli in a little olive oil and lime juice. Have some of that sitting out for munching on.

In this latest attempt my snack has been sugar-free jello. Works pretty well and almost no calories. My previous snacks have always been spoons of peanut butter. sure not many carbs but a hell of a lot of calories!

[Xan]

Sugar-free isn't all that great. It still makes you crave sugar, still makes you stay hungry. It's not that much better than sugar, I understand.

Make your snack something you're not all that excited about eating.

[l82start]

almond butter, pork rinds, dark chocolate (in moderation) cheese, mixed nuts (not peanuts they are not as keto friendly) are a few of my go to snacks...

[doodle]

Ok, one more question. If food companies worked with scientists to develop products that tapped into the brains evolutionary pleasure centers to create drug like chemical addictions to their products that they then heavily marketed to kids which in turn also caused health issues, would you have a problem with that?

[doodle]

Would you be willing to accept that in any situation where the behavior of one individual impacts the life of another regulation could be justifiable?

That being the case how do you propose to solve a health care issue where the health problems brought about by an extremely poor diet and lifestyle is paid for by society at large that then has to treat the medical problems of these individuals? If these people's personal health decisions impact other individuals then we have two choices, either we pay for their treatment but have some method to sway their behavior to better choices (not every regulation has to forbid things, it could simply make it more difficult or costly to procure something) or we just let them die on the street outside the hospital if they can't afford treatment. If a man goes into hospital with heart issues because he is 200 pounds overweight and has type 2 diabetes but doesn't have enough money or credit to pay for treatment should the hospital put him on street to die? If not, then who is going to pay for his treatment that is arising because of poor health choices? If society at large, then don't they have a right to stipulate certain things regarding this individuals choices if they are going to be paying for the treatment arising because of his choices.

bring back debtors prison? just throwing it out there.. i haven't thought through the implications or the down sides....

scenario....Economy depends on cheap labor to increase profits. Food companies create fast, affordable food that is very tasty and addictive yet detrimental to health. Workers eat because cheap and easily available and they are addicted to it...not to mention it is marketed to their kids incessantly.. They have health problems because of this. They have a choice, die...or go into debtors prison for medical treatment? Meanwhile, corporations CEOs are shielded from any debt or responsibility by corporate firewall. They can take on debt, pollute, poison whatever and when shit hits the fan dissolve company and walk away? Is this the vision for how to make America great again? I think I'll throw in with the Danish, or some other European nation. You guys can have this country.

[doodle]

I feel like our political extremism has filtered into our national dietary fads. All meat! No meat! Only fruit! Nothing cooked! Is our entire nation insane?

[doodle]

Ok, one more question. If food companies worked with scientists to develop products that tapped into the brains evolutionary pleasure centers to create drug like chemical addictions to their products that they then heavily marketed to kids which in turn also caused health issues, would you have a problem with that?

They've been doing it for 70 years since the invention of gas spectrometry.

The parents should take responsibility for parenting. It's all about personal responsibility.

So your argument / solution is should? There are a lot of things that should happen and don't. If humans were perfect and rational and logical there wouldn't be a need for laws at all. Now, stepping back into reality, what is your plan?

[doodle]

Actually, I find it interesting that you think parents should take responsibility...yet say nothing about the food companies and how they shouldn't engineer foods that are intentionally addictive and terrible for the health of the species.

[doodle]

I'm all for personal responsibility but you have to recognize that everyone shares in that. You can't dangle prostitutes and drugs and fast food restaurants, and video games and peer pressure in front of a 16 year old kid who comes from a broken home and then be surprised when he falls into bad habits. Society in addition to parents (because not every kid is blessed with them) also has a responsibility to shield people from harm and help encourage good choices. You realize that sometimes what is most profitable for an individual is actually detrimental to society right? We are an over medicated society because pharmaceutical companies incentive doctors to push drugs onto patients. The personal profit motive incentivizes negative outcomes. No one makes billions selling brocolli and an evening walk. Do you think it's realistic for the solution to this problem being patients pushing back against their doctors? Seriously, Tom. I get the idea but it's just not realistic. I wish it would happen. I think we have a serious lack of personal responsibility in this country. Ahemmmm...including our president.

I think it's a two pronged approach of personal responsibility, incentivizing and increasing ease of access to making good choices, and making negative choices more difficult or disincentivized. For example, vending machines at school. Why are they full of soda and candy? Are we really providing kids with an environment here that will encourage them to make good dietary decisions when they are hungry when this is the option we give them? It's setting things up for failure.

So

[Tortoise]

Would you be willing to accept that in any situation where the behavior of one individual impacts the life of another regulation could be justifiable?

This is a good question. The way I see it, there are basically two ways to approach situations where one person's actions could potentially affect another person:

1. Regulate - Restrict the person's freedom in such a way that they (hopefully) will be less likely to violate certain rights of the other person.

2. Enforce violations of rights - Do not restrict the person's freedom, but if he violates any rights of the other person, prosecute him in court to seek justice.

#1 (regulate) is sort of a one-size-fits-all approach in which everyone may be forced to change their behavior in a certain way, even if it is completely irrelevant to many of them from a rights-violation perspective. By contrast, #2 (enforce violations of rights) effectively tailors the situation to each individual and doesn't assume that people are fungible.

[doodle]

Would you be willing to accept that in any situation where the behavior of one individual impacts the life of another regulation could be justifiable?

This is a good question. The way I see it, there are basically two ways to approach situations where one person's actions could potentially affect another person:

1. Regulate - Restrict the person's freedom in such a way that they (hopefully) will be less likely to violate certain rights of the other person.

2. Enforce violations of rights - Do not restrict the person's freedom, but if he violates any rights of the other person, prosecute him in court to seek justice.

#1 (regulate) is sort of a one-size-fits-all approach in which everyone may be forced to change their behavior in a certain way, even if it is completely irrelevant to many of them from a rights-violation perspective. By contrast, #2 (enforce violations of rights) effectively tailors the situation to each individual and doesn't assume that people are fungible.

Ok, I'd be for number 2 if it wasn't so complicated. We know for example that city air pollution from transportation aggravates respiratory ailments especially in young children with developing lungs. Should a parent whose child has severe asthma because they live next to a highway sue every driver in the city? Go after the car manufacturers? Do you think that is really realistic?

[WiseOne]

Favorite keto nibble foods are what you need, Cortopassi!! There are plenty of options but you do have to think outside the box a bit.

The ALL TIME NUMBER ONE FAVORITE: Keto Fudge Bites from Trader Joe's. Damn they are delicious and addicting. If you can't find it, try making your own version out of coconut cream, cocoa powder, coconut flour, peanut butter, and erythritol/monkfruit sweetener.

Also from Trader Joe's, smokehouse or Thai chili flavored almonds. Plain almonds not so bad either.

Parmesan crackers. Stew Leonard's has a nice mix of these with nuts, but you can also melt parmesan with a little butter in a pan, let it cool, and voila.

Cheese. Any kind. Those flavored pub cheeses are great when you use olives, almonds, or veggies to dip it up with.

Olives. Don't get the ones that come in jars, you want the deli-counter variety that look like real food.

This is the one that got me through the initial craving phase: bacon and cream cheese sandwiches. Seriously. Take two pieces of bacon and put a slice of cream cheese in between. Yum. Cook a whole package of bacon at a time so you always have some in the fridge.

Make yogurt out of half and half. I use my sous vide stick. Add a few berries, fresh or frozen. I don't typically add sweetener but you can if you like. Ground up chia seeds make a nice addition too.

Eskimo ice cream: frozen berries with a bit of cream poured on top. There are also keto ice creams - "Rebel" and "Enlightened" brands are good.

Hardboiled eggs.

Rolled up salami, or one of those fancy whole Italian sausages sliced up.

Enjoy your next trip through the land of keto!

[Kriegsspiel]

I feel like our political extremism has filtered into our national dietary fads. All meat! No meat! Only fruit! Nothing cooked! Is our entire nation insane?

Hey man, people (well, bodybuilders and athletes, mostly) have been doing extreme diets for a real long time. Vince Gironda was popularizing his steak and eggs diet back in the 50s. Before that there was the Scandinavian dude who was hanging out with the Eskimos and eating seals for a year. Not to mention... the Eskimos themselves

[Kriegsspiel]

In this latest attempt my snack has been sugar-free jello. Works pretty well and almost no calories. My previous snacks have always been spoons of peanut butter. sure not many carbs but a hell of a lot of calories!

Sugar-free isn't all that great. It still makes you crave sugar, still makes you stay hungry. It's not that much better than sugar, I understand.

I listened to the Carnivore dude (Shawn Baker) on the Rogan podcast, and he brought up a chick who went from morbidly obese to a very attractive figure, pretty much just by eating hamburgers. I found her site, and she said she was doing mostly keto at the start, and eating a shit ton of jello (my words). Then after she lost a hundred pounds she went pretty much only bacon and hamburgers. I think she said she stopped eating the jello then.

But hey, unless the jello is "making" you eat other stuff, it's fine.

[l82start]

I have tried multiple times but I have the hardest time on low carb and carnivore. I have trouble making it a few days..the longest I have made it is 2 weeks. I know there is a transition period etc but how do I continue to fight thru something that makes me feel like crap? At what point do I say that this is just not the way for me?

I read varying opinions on whether there is little difference between humans and we are all built to eat the same things or if it really varies from person to person and one person will thrive on low carb while another will do better with high carb/low fat.

For what it is worth (and I dont know what they are worth) I used my DNA from 23 and Me and sent it to two DNA nutrition analysis companies. Both came back and said with my DNA I should eat high carb, moderate protein and low fat. The opposite of the low carb I have tried to eat. But there are plenty of experts who say that DNA diets are hooey.

you may find that true ketogenic is easier than low carb, it could be due to dna or just your personal metabolism, but if you feel crappy and crave carbs you probably are not burning ketones, most of the best effects come with ketosis, and not everybody enters or stays in ketosis at the same level of carb intake, on my first run at this kind of diet i shot for under 6 grams per day, if you read the ingredients, something as small as two fast food ketchup packs can have that much... keto strips can help confirm ketosis for you.... and also stay away from peanuts .... not ketogenic . stick to true nuts..

[Mark Leavy]

In this latest attempt my snack has been sugar-free jello. Works pretty well and almost no calories. My previous snacks have always been spoons of peanut butter. sure not many carbs but a hell of a lot of calories!

Sugar-free isn't all that great. It still makes you crave sugar, still makes you stay hungry. It's not that much better than sugar, I understand.

I listened to the Carnivore dude (Shawn Baker) on the Rogan podcast, and he brought up a chick who went from morbidly obese to a very attractive figure, pretty much just by eating hamburgers. I found her site, and she said she was doing mostly keto at the start, and eating a shit ton of jello (my words). Then after she lost a hundred pounds she went pretty much only bacon and hamburgers. I think she said she stopped eating the jello then.

But hey, unless the jello is "making" you eat other stuff, it's fine.

Unflavored gelatin is pure collagen. Great stuff. If I can't find hydrolyzed collagen wherever I am at, I'll pick up some unflavored jello at the grocery store. Then I'll either just drink a cup of it hot, or If I have time and access to fresh pineapple, I'll use the bromelain to hydrolyze the gelatin ahead of time.

I'm pretty much back on steak and eggs and collagen now. It's really hard to beat.

[doodle]

Correct me if I'm wrong but a ketogenic diet requires around 80% of calories to come from fat...so most meat doesn't even come close to qualifying as that....too much protein. I guess one could have a stick of butter and a steak.

The thing is, one can find people losing weight and feeling better on the strangest diets...only potatoes, or just rice and jam. It seems like when one either eats unprocessed carbs and no fat or fat and no carbs the body generally loses weight. It's when the two are mixed (which is most delicious foods) the problem begins.