Carnivore Diet Experiment

[Mark Leavy]

So yesterday I started what I hope to be 30 days of the Carnivore Diet, just to see if all of the health claims from people like Joe Rogan would be true for me too. I definitely need to lose about 50 lbs, cut my addiction to sodas/empty carbs and change my health.

Have any of you ever done this diet, another diet that is far removed from the Standard American Diet, or any other sort of bio-hacks and how did it go?

Hey jalanlong - my best wishes.

I have a lot of experience. Over 10 years strict carnivore. Now, a bit less strict, but probably 90% carnivore. It's been very good to me.

Just so you know what to expect, you are going to feel like shit for at least 2 weeks. Assuming that you aren't a spring chicken anymore, it may be 6 or 8 weeks. If you can manage to keep your trial going for 60 days instead of 30, you'll have a better comparison to see if it is for you or not.

Here's the killer: Your body processes carbohydrates for energy much differently than it does fat. It actually requires mitochondrial and brain chemistry changes to use fat effectively. You don't have those changes yet, and it will take a while for them to develop.

In the meantime, your body will panic. It will start searching for glucose in whatever form it can get. You can expect to lose around 10 lbs of weight in the first couple of weeks. Almost all water. Stored glucose in your body is bound with water and it will be released as you harvest it. Your liver has a glucose reserve. You may notice long periods of elevated heart rate and anxiety. That is your body pushing epinephrine (adrenaline) to get your liver to let go of the glucose in a fight or flight response.

You may lose a lot of fat because your body is ripping up fat molecules to get to the glycerol and throwing away the rest. Your piss will smell like acetone from the discarded acid chains.

You might feel fuzzy in your thinking or not as sharp as usual. The brain is a huge glucose hog, and until it converts over to ketones it won't be at 100%. The good news is that once it's running on ketones you will be sharper than ever.

Aches and flu like symptoms for awhile - again until you rebuild your mitochondria.

Your bowel movements will be all over the map the first few weeks. All of your gut flora that depend on carbs will die and leave in a hurry... likewise the volume of food that you eat will be significantly reduced, so don't expect the same regularity that you had before. Eat plenty of fat and drink plenty of water.

That's about it! I don't mean to scare you, just don't expect the transition to be smooth sailing. The change affects every level of your body down to the cellular level. The good news is that it is totally worth it. You will be in the best shape of your life and have the highest mental capacity.

Mark

[jalanlong]

So yesterday I started what I hope to be 30 days of the Carnivore Diet, just to see if all of the health claims from people like Joe Rogan would be true for me too. I definitely need to lose about 50 lbs, cut my addiction to sodas/empty carbs and change my health.

Have any of you ever done this diet, another diet that is far removed from the Standard American Diet, or any other sort of bio-hacks and how did it go?

Hey jalanlong - my best wishes.

I have a lot of experience. Over 10 years strict carnivore. Now, a bit less strict, buy probably 90% carnivore. It's been very good to me.

Just so you know what to expect, you are going to feel like shit for at least 2 weeks. Assuming that you aren't a spring chicken anymore, it may be 6 or 8 weeks. If you can manage to keep your trial going for 60 days instead of 30, you'll have a better comparison to see if it is for you or not.

Here's the killer: Your body processes carbohydrates for energy much differently than it does fat. It actually requires mitochondrial and brain chemistry changes to use fat effectively. You don't have those changes yet, and it will take a while for them to develop.

In the meantime, your body will panic. It will start searching for glucose in whatever form it can get. You can expect to lose around 10 lbs of weight in the first couple of weeks. Almost all water. Stored glucose in your body is bound with water and it will be released as you harvest it. Your liver has a glucose reserve. You may notice long periods of elevated heart rate and anxiety. That is your body pushing epinephrine (adrenaline) to get your liver to let go of the glucose in a fight or flight response.

You may lose a lot of fat because your body is ripping up fat molecules to get to the glycerol and throwing away the rest. Your piss will smell like acetone from the discarded acid chains.

You might feel fuzzy in your thinking or not as sharp as usual. The brain is a huge glucose hog, and until it converts over to ketones it won't be at 100%. The good news is that once it's running on ketones you will be sharper than ever.

Aches and flu like symptoms for awhile - again until you rebuild your mitochondria.

Your bowel movements will be all over the map the first few weeks. All of your gut flora that depend on carbs will die and leave in a hurry... likewise the volume of food that you eat will be significantly reduced, so don't expect the same regularity that you had before. Eat plenty of fat and drink plenty of water.

That's about it! I don't mean to scare you, just don't expect the transition to be smooth sailing. The change affects every level of your body down to the cellular level. The good news is that it is totally worth it. You will be in the best shape of your life and have the highest mental capacity.

Mark

Thanks for the help! I definitely have the foggy brain and dull headache thing going.

In your experience would it have been better for me to slowly ween off of carbs instead of going cold turkey? I went straight from a Standard American diet with tons of soda and empty carbs right into meat,eggs and water. I wonder if I should have tried to transition over a few weeks or if it would not have made any difference?

[Mark Leavy]

Thanks for the help! I definitely have the foggy brain and dull headache thing going.

In your experience would it have been better for me to slowly ween off of carbs instead of going cold turkey? I went straight from a Standard American diet with tons of soda and empty carbs right into meat,eggs and water. I wonder if I should have tried to transition over a few weeks or if it would not have made any difference?

I've heard good and bad from both approaches. I'm a cold turkey kind of guy. Rip the bandaid off and see what happens.
I made the transition in my mid 40's and it hit me hard. I was the CTO of the company and my brain shut off for about 4 weeks. If I hadn't also been an owner, I'm sure I would have been fired

Mark

[pp4me]

So yesterday I started what I hope to be 30 days of the Carnivore Diet, just to see if all of the health claims from people like Joe Rogan would be true for me too. I definitely need to lose about 50 lbs, cut my addiction to sodas/empty carbs and change my health.

Have any of you ever done this diet, another diet that is far removed from the Standard American Diet, or any other sort of bio-hacks and how did it go?

Hey jalanlong - my best wishes.

I have a lot of experience. Over 10 years strict carnivore. Now, a bit less strict, buy probably 90% carnivore. It's been very good to me.

Just so you know what to expect, you are going to feel like shit for at least 2 weeks. Assuming that you aren't a spring chicken anymore, it may be 6 or 8 weeks. If you can manage to keep your trial going for 60 days instead of 30, you'll have a better comparison to see if it is for you or not.

Here's the killer: Your body processes carbohydrates for energy much differently than it does fat. It actually requires mitochondrial and brain chemistry changes to use fat effectively. You don't have those changes yet, and it will take a while for them to develop.

In the meantime, your body will panic. It will start searching for glucose in whatever form it can get. You can expect to lose around 10 lbs of weight in the first couple of weeks. Almost all water. Stored glucose in your body is bound with water and it will be released as you harvest it. Your liver has a glucose reserve. You may notice long periods of elevated heart rate and anxiety. That is your body pushing epinephrine (adrenaline) to get your liver to let go of the glucose in a fight or flight response.

You may lose a lot of fat because your body is ripping up fat molecules to get to the glycerol and throwing away the rest. Your piss will smell like acetone from the discarded acid chains.

You might feel fuzzy in your thinking or not as sharp as usual. The brain is a huge glucose hog, and until it converts over to ketones it won't be at 100%. The good news is that once it's running on ketones you will be sharper than ever.

Aches and flu like symptoms for awhile - again until you rebuild your mitochondria.

Your bowel movements will be all over the map the first few weeks. All of your gut flora that depend on carbs will die and leave in a hurry... likewise the volume of food that you eat will be significantly reduced, so don't expect the same regularity that you had before. Eat plenty of fat and drink plenty of water.

That's about it! I don't mean to scare you, just don't expect the transition to be smooth sailing. The change affects every level of your body down to the cellular level. The good news is that it is totally worth it. You will be in the best shape of your life and have the highest mental capacity.

Mark

Thanks for the help! I definitely have the foggy brain and dull headache thing going.

In your experience would it have been better for me to slowly ween off of carbs instead of going cold turkey? I went straight from a Standard American diet with tons of soda and empty carbs right into meat,eggs and water. I wonder if I should have tried to transition over a few weeks or if it would not have made any difference?

I didn't have nearly as bad an experience as Mark describes and that may have been because I had been dabbling off and on with low carb eating for quite a few years before I went with keto/carnivore. So my body wasn't totally shocked by the change.

I'd take the things you are feeling as good signs however. Just shows it's working.

[dualstow]

God, this reads ilke withdrawal and rehab for grain and vegetable eaters (omnivores, really).
I don’t mean that in a disparaging way; just being factual.
I honestly had no idea.

[Cortopassi]

Lazy keto here as well. I will not refuse myself a cookie or chips, for example, but our meals are mainly meat and vegetables. Sometimes some white rice.

I never drink full sugar pop, but do drink diet at times. Never really eat bread or pasta. Completely stay away from vegetable oils, except what’s in the chips...

When I go hardcore low carb, I fall to about 191. Typical lazy keto, I sit around 196. The five pounds is not worth restricting myself that much.

Joints, in general, are less achy when I go hard core. Other than the five pound difference, that is what I noticed the most. I see no real difference in energy or mood. But I was in generally good shape to start with.

[pp4me]

In addition to keto/carnivore I have to give some credit to the fact that I retired 4 years ago for my weight loss. I think the stress of working has a lot to do with it as well as going out to lunch every day with the guys at work and then coming home to enjoy my wife's cooking for dinner.

Now I'm the cook and I can eat whenever and whatever I want as long as the other members of the household don't complain too much.

[boglerdude]

Vegetarian 30 years vegan 10. Food is a drug and it takes years to wean off the large dopamine bursts from high fat/sugar/salt/meat. You cut back a little at a time. Diet doesnt matter much tho, im ripped because i only eat once a day and walk 10 miles/week. Try coffee and tea instead of lunch.

[vnatale]

Vegetarian 30 years vegan 10. Food is a drug and it takes years to wean off the large dopamine bursts from high fat/sugar/salt/meat. You cut back a little at a time. Diet doesnt matter much tho, im ripped because i only eat once a day and walk 10 miles/week. Try coffee and tea instead of lunch.

What is your height and weight? Any other exercise aside from the walking?

Vinny

[l82start]

keto and near keto for a at least 7 or 8 years now, (i have lost track ) no negative symptoms during the transition, lost a lot of weight, better joint health etc etc...

not being as hard core with it right now, but still avoiding the bad oils, bread and most sugar, i also stay fairly close to an intermittent fasting meal pattern...

[WiseOne]

Hey Vinny,

Let me recommend a book by Lierre Kieth, "The Vegetarian Myth." There are a lot of claims about the dangers of meat eating that simply aren't true. The book very effectively rebuts them.

Research on pre-Neolithic diets indicates that the human diet was primarily (but not exclusively) based on meat. And, that human health worsened significantly after the transition to agriculture - height and life expectancy declined, teeth and bones started showing chronic disease, and heart disease (from investigations of Egyptian mummies) became common. Fascinating stuff. Takehome is that humans are not adapted to a vegetarian diet, and particularly are not adapted to eating grains.

[dualstow]

Vegetarian 30 years vegan 10. Food is a drug and it takes years to wean off the large dopamine bursts from high fat/sugar/salt/meat. You cut back a little at a time. Diet doesnt matter much tho, im ripped because i only eat once a day and walk 10 miles/week. Try coffee and tea instead of lunch.

I used to walk 6 miles/10km a day and was by no means ripped. You must have good metabolism.

[vnatale]

Hey Vinny,

Let me recommend a book by Lierre Kieth, "The Vegetarian Myth." There are a lot of claims about the dangers of meat eating that simply aren't true. The book very effectively rebuts them.

Research on pre-Neolithic diets indicates that the human diet was primarily (but not exclusively) based on meat. And, that human health worsened significantly after the transition to agriculture - height and life expectancy declined, teeth and bones started showing chronic disease, and heart disease (from investigations of Egyptian mummies) became common. Fascinating stuff. Takehome is that humans are not adapted to a vegetarian diet, and particularly are not adapted to eating grains.

Thanks. Just bought a used copy from Amazon. Will get to me sometime in August.

Vinny

[Hal]

Hey Vinny,

Let me recommend a book by Lierre Kieth, "The Vegetarian Myth." There are a lot of claims about the dangers of meat eating that simply aren't true. The book very effectively rebuts them.

Research on pre-Neolithic diets indicates that the human diet was primarily (but not exclusively) based on meat. And, that human health worsened significantly after the transition to agriculture - height and life expectancy declined, teeth and bones started showing chronic disease, and heart disease (from investigations of Egyptian mummies) became common. Fascinating stuff. Takehome is that humans are not adapted to a vegetarian diet, and particularly are not adapted to eating grains.

Thanks. Just bought a used copy from Amazon. Will get to me sometime in August.

Vinny

Sounds like you should do the 72 Oz challenge Vinny

https://www.bigtexan.com/live-stream/

[vnatale]

Hey Vinny,

Let me recommend a book by Lierre Kieth, "The Vegetarian Myth." There are a lot of claims about the dangers of meat eating that simply aren't true. The book very effectively rebuts them.

Research on pre-Neolithic diets indicates that the human diet was primarily (but not exclusively) based on meat. And, that human health worsened significantly after the transition to agriculture - height and life expectancy declined, teeth and bones started showing chronic disease, and heart disease (from investigations of Egyptian mummies) became common. Fascinating stuff. Takehome is that humans are not adapted to a vegetarian diet, and particularly are not adapted to eating grains.

Thanks. Just bought a used copy from Amazon. Will get to me sometime in August.

Vinny

Sounds like you should do the 72 Oz challenge Vinny

https://www.bigtexan.com/live-stream/

I don't think so! But once as a kid I was awarded an "I ate the entire banana split" button! Devoured anything with sugar in it.

Vinny

[boglerdude]

I'm not bulky, just lean with tone. The backpack usually has 5-10 lbs in it.

> humans are not adapted to a vegetarian diet

Tens of millions have thrived on vegetarian diets over the centuries. The only indisputable cases of diet failures are scurvy and rickets. For every book claiming being vegetarian is unhealthy there are 10 with data suggesting otherwise.

Rather than convince yourself you couldnt possibly eat healthier & more humanely, just accept that for you, its not worth the effort. Nobody gives 100% of their disposable income to charity either.

Arguments about diet aren't about diet, anything balanced is good enough. We don't want the pain caused by eating less than we want (im starving right now) or the pain from eating something different than what we grew up with. ie the flavors that wired up to the dopamine centers during childhood.

[WiseOne]

I don't question that some people can handle a vegetarian diet. Many however do not. Personally, I was vegetarian for a few years and that's when I started having weight problems. I also know a lot of people who spent years as vegetarians but for various reasons usually connected to health issues they went back to meat eating. Or, they started eating meat and then discovered that their health improved. And, there have been studies associating depression with vegetarian diets, a most interesting link.

As a neurologist I have also seen some severe medical consequences from vegetarian (especially vegan) diets. Like an otherwise healthy vegan man who spent two years wheelchair bound in a SNF because of B12 deficiency. Sure, not everyone will have this happen....but SOME will. And if there's one problem like this that can crop up, be assured there are more.

I'm just generally sold on the idea that the diet that humans evolved on is most likely the one that we are best adapted to eat today. The idea that we evolved to eat one diet but are actually healthiest on a totally different one...doesn't that strike you as odd? If it's true, then we are literally the only species on the planet with that characteristic.

[bedraggled]

Isn't B-12 is available through supplementation?

[vnatale]

Isn't B-12 is available through supplementation?

Yes. I just grabbed my bottle of Vitamin B-12 5000 mcg and am looking it.

My doctor recommended it even though my blood test did not reveal any B vitamin issues.

Vinny

[dualstow]

...
I also know a lot of people who spent years as vegetarians but for various reasons usually connected to health issues they went back to meat eating. Or, they started eating meat and then discovered that their health improved.
...

The one that got to me was the then-wife of Morgan Spurlock (of ‘Super-Size Me’ fame). She was a professional vegan chef! And she went back to the meat.

No dirty comments, kriegsspiel.

[Mark Leavy]

Isn't B-12 is available through supplementation?

Yes. I just grabbed my bottle of Vitamin B-12 5000 mcg and am looking it.

My doctor recommended it even though my blood test did not reveal any B vitamin issues.

Vinny

Not sure exactly what you eat, Vinny, but if you consume dairy and eggs you can skate along without the B supplements. Not great, but you'll live.

Also, if you eat breakfast cereals, many of those are fortified with B vitamins. Needless to say, that wouldn't be my first choice.

[pp4me]

In the documentary "The Magic Pill" about the keto diet there was a woman who was a vegan of the strictest kind who bought a piece of land where she intended to grow all of her own fruits and vegetables for food. So she went to a local store to buy some fertilizer and decided to look at what exactly was in the fertilizer, only to discover that one of the ingredients was "blood meal". And that's when the light went off for her. It takes dead animals to grow fruits and vegetables - it's simply nature's way on planet earth. So she went out and bought some chickens and other animals and changed her diet.

[vnatale]

Isn't B-12 is available through supplementation?

Yes. I just grabbed my bottle of Vitamin B-12 5000 mcg and am looking it.

My doctor recommended it even though my blood test did not reveal any B vitamin issues.

Vinny

Not sure exactly what you eat, Vinny, but if you consume dairy and eggs you can skate along without the B supplements. Not great, but you'll live.

Also, if you eat breakfast cereals, many of those are fortified with B vitamins. Needless to say, that wouldn't be my first choice.

Vegan at home. And, no breakfast cereals since I was a kid.

Vinny

[vnatale]

In the documentary "The Magic Pill" about the keto diet there was a woman who was a vegan of the strictest kind who bought a piece of land where she intended to grow all of her own fruits and vegetables for food. So she went to a local store to buy some fertilizer and decided to look at what exactly was in the fertilizer, only to discover that one of the ingredients was "blood meal". And that's when the light went off for her. It takes dead animals to grow fruits and vegetables - it's simply nature's way on planet earth. So she went out and bought some chickens and other animals and changed her diet.

The fertilizer in my garden is strictly the leaves from trees on my property. Two friends came by the other night and they could not believe how huge my kale plants were.

Vinny

[pp4me]

In the documentary "The Magic Pill" about the keto diet there was a woman who was a vegan of the strictest kind who bought a piece of land where she intended to grow all of her own fruits and vegetables for food. So she went to a local store to buy some fertilizer and decided to look at what exactly was in the fertilizer, only to discover that one of the ingredients was "blood meal". And that's when the light went off for her. It takes dead animals to grow fruits and vegetables - it's simply nature's way on planet earth. So she went out and bought some chickens and other animals and changed her diet.

The fertilizer in my garden is strictly the leaves from trees on my property. Two friends came by the other night and they could not believe how huge my kale plants were.

Vinny

I threw away about 20 bags of leaves from the oak trees in my backyard this year. My grandfather, that I grew up next to, would have considered that crazy since he got most of his fertilizer from "compost heaps" supplemented with dead fish caught from the traps in our pond (my mother always complained about the smell).

Still, when you are enjoying your kale I think you probably need to give some thanks to dead animals somewhere along the way.