George Floyd

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vnatale
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Re: George Floyd

Post by vnatale » Wed Jul 15, 2020 8:51 am

stuper1 wrote:
Wed Jul 15, 2020 8:22 am
It's called being holier than thou. Very common among people who aspire to be pastors. Also very common among SJWs.
This guy was a completely nice guy. Everyone loved him. But having reached the age of his late 20s, or early 30s, by him giving an answer like that he revealed that he lacked the proper sense to be a pastor.

Vinny
"I only regret that I have but one lap to give to my cats."
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Re: George Floyd

Post by shekels » Wed Jul 15, 2020 8:59 am

Cortopassi wrote:
Tue Jul 14, 2020 3:45 pm
shekels wrote:
Tue Jul 14, 2020 10:12 am

What are the guidelines, and did the POLICE Follow them?
I'm hoping there doesn't need to be a guideline against "kneel on the offender's neck until he's good and dead"

But you are right:

The manual of the Minneapolis Police Department states that neck restraints and chokeholds are basically reserved for when an officer feels caught in a life-or-death situation.

Not that Floyd looked like he was in any sort of position of power to make the officer feel that way.
Guidelines may have been the wrong word to use in this instance.
What I was leading to was if the Police followed procedure and the procedure ended in harm/death then who is at fault?
The Mayor and or City Council,maybe the State legislator possibly the Governor?
Or maybe just throw the Police under the bus and wash you hands of the matter.

We all know that the police do not have a specific Duty to respond to citizens.
¯\_(ツ)_/¯
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Re: George Floyd

Post by shekels » Wed Jul 15, 2020 9:07 am

vnatale wrote:
Tue Jul 14, 2020 12:35 pm


I'll ask you this question.

We are back in Germany during Nazi Germany times. You are hiding a Jew in your house. The Nazis come to your door and ask you is you are hiding any Jews in your house. You ARE breaking a law. And, if you answer them falsely you are breaking one of the Ten Commandments of not telling the truth.

Do you follow the law and the Ten Commandments and turn over the Jew you had been hiding?

Vinny
The difference is Man's Law vs Gods Law.

Man's Law will abolish Free Men of their Life ,Liberty and Freedom with their "Laws"
¯\_(ツ)_/¯
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Re: George Floyd

Post by Xan » Wed Jul 15, 2020 9:37 am

vnatale wrote:
Wed Jul 15, 2020 8:51 am
stuper1 wrote:
Wed Jul 15, 2020 8:22 am
It's called being holier than thou. Very common among people who aspire to be pastors. Also very common among SJWs.
This guy was a completely nice guy. Everyone loved him. But having reached the age of his late 20s, or early 30s, by him giving an answer like that he revealed that he lacked the proper sense to be a pastor.

Vinny
I think you're really asking two different questions here, though. One is "what is the RIGHT thing to do in this situation" and the other is "what would YOU do". I think we all agree that the right thing to do is to not turn the person over to the Nazis. But, when the rubber meets the road, would you actually risk losing everything for the sake of this person? Would you risk everything that you have, including your life? Would you risk condemning your own family to torture and death? Then it isn't so easy.
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vnatale
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Re: George Floyd

Post by vnatale » Wed Jul 15, 2020 9:45 am

shekels wrote:
Wed Jul 15, 2020 9:07 am
vnatale wrote:
Tue Jul 14, 2020 12:35 pm


I'll ask you this question.

We are back in Germany during Nazi Germany times. You are hiding a Jew in your house. The Nazis come to your door and ask you is you are hiding any Jews in your house. You ARE breaking a law. And, if you answer them falsely you are breaking one of the Ten Commandments of not telling the truth.

Do you follow the law and the Ten Commandments and turn over the Jew you had been hiding?

Vinny
The difference is Man's Law vs Gods Law.

Man's Law will abolish Free Men of their Life ,Liberty and Freedom with their "Laws"
Totally agree with you. You'd think an aspiring pastor would be aware of that?

Vinny
"I only regret that I have but one lap to give to my cats."
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vnatale
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Re: George Floyd

Post by vnatale » Wed Jul 15, 2020 9:46 am

Xan wrote:
Wed Jul 15, 2020 9:37 am
vnatale wrote:
Wed Jul 15, 2020 8:51 am
stuper1 wrote:
Wed Jul 15, 2020 8:22 am
It's called being holier than thou. Very common among people who aspire to be pastors. Also very common among SJWs.
This guy was a completely nice guy. Everyone loved him. But having reached the age of his late 20s, or early 30s, by him giving an answer like that he revealed that he lacked the proper sense to be a pastor.

Vinny
I think you're really asking two different questions here, though. One is "what is the RIGHT thing to do in this situation" and the other is "what would YOU do". I think we all agree that the right thing to do is to not turn the person over to the Nazis. But, when the rubber meets the road, would you actually risk losing everything for the sake of this person? Would you risk everything that you have, including your life? Would you risk condemning your own family to torture and death? Then it isn't so easy.
You are correct. Two questions. I was asking the idealistic version. Not the practical version.

Vinny
"I only regret that I have but one lap to give to my cats."
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Cortopassi
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Re: George Floyd

Post by Cortopassi » Wed Jul 15, 2020 10:48 am

shekels wrote:
Wed Jul 15, 2020 8:59 am
Cortopassi wrote:
Tue Jul 14, 2020 3:45 pm
shekels wrote:
Tue Jul 14, 2020 10:12 am

What are the guidelines, and did the POLICE Follow them?
I'm hoping there doesn't need to be a guideline against "kneel on the offender's neck until he's good and dead"

But you are right:

The manual of the Minneapolis Police Department states that neck restraints and chokeholds are basically reserved for when an officer feels caught in a life-or-death situation.

Not that Floyd looked like he was in any sort of position of power to make the officer feel that way.
Guidelines may have been the wrong word to use in this instance.
What I was leading to was if the Police followed procedure and the procedure ended in harm/death then who is at fault?
The Mayor and or City Council,maybe the State legislator possibly the Governor?
Or maybe just throw the Police under the bus and wash you hands of the matter.

We all know that the police do not have a specific Duty to respond to citizens.
Unless there are other video angles, any subduing of Floyd that might have been needed ended within 30 seconds of being on the ground. That the knee was still there 8 minutes later, shows intent to cause harm, probably because he pissed him off. I would like to believe he just wanted to cause him some pain and be done with it, and really did not intend to kill him, but he had ample time to calm down and give at least some rational thought to what he was doing.

But he actually looked quite calm kneeling there which made it that much more disturbing.
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Re: George Floyd

Post by stuper1 » Wed Jul 15, 2020 6:28 pm

vnatale wrote:
Wed Jul 15, 2020 9:46 am
Xan wrote:
Wed Jul 15, 2020 9:37 am
vnatale wrote:
Wed Jul 15, 2020 8:51 am
stuper1 wrote:
Wed Jul 15, 2020 8:22 am
It's called being holier than thou. Very common among people who aspire to be pastors. Also very common among SJWs.
This guy was a completely nice guy. Everyone loved him. But having reached the age of his late 20s, or early 30s, by him giving an answer like that he revealed that he lacked the proper sense to be a pastor.

Vinny
I think you're really asking two different questions here, though. One is "what is the RIGHT thing to do in this situation" and the other is "what would YOU do". I think we all agree that the right thing to do is to not turn the person over to the Nazis. But, when the rubber meets the road, would you actually risk losing everything for the sake of this person? Would you risk everything that you have, including your life? Would you risk condemning your own family to torture and death? Then it isn't so easy.
You are correct. Two questions. I was asking the idealistic version. Not the practical version.

Vinny
To bring this up to our time where the U.S.A. is grappling with systemic racism just like Nazi Germany did, how about this hypothetical: It's the middle of the night and a large, black man is beating on your front door, begging you to let him in because the cops have mistaken him for a cop-killer and will likely kill him when they catch up in a few minutes.

Do you open your door, let him in, hide him, and lie to the police when they show up? If not, aren't you part of the systemic racism problem just like that SS officer back in 1940?
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Re: George Floyd

Post by drumminj » Wed Jul 15, 2020 9:36 pm

stuper1 wrote:
Wed Jul 15, 2020 6:28 pm
If not, aren't you part of the systemic racism problem just like that SS officer back in 1940?
There's a presumption here that systemic racism is a thing/issue. Did I miss where that became a given?
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Re: George Floyd

Post by vnatale » Wed Jul 15, 2020 9:41 pm

stuper1 wrote:
Wed Jul 15, 2020 6:28 pm
vnatale wrote:
Wed Jul 15, 2020 9:46 am
Xan wrote:
Wed Jul 15, 2020 9:37 am
vnatale wrote:
Wed Jul 15, 2020 8:51 am
stuper1 wrote:
Wed Jul 15, 2020 8:22 am
It's called being holier than thou. Very common among people who aspire to be pastors. Also very common among SJWs.
This guy was a completely nice guy. Everyone loved him. But having reached the age of his late 20s, or early 30s, by him giving an answer like that he revealed that he lacked the proper sense to be a pastor.

Vinny
I think you're really asking two different questions here, though. One is "what is the RIGHT thing to do in this situation" and the other is "what would YOU do". I think we all agree that the right thing to do is to not turn the person over to the Nazis. But, when the rubber meets the road, would you actually risk losing everything for the sake of this person? Would you risk everything that you have, including your life? Would you risk condemning your own family to torture and death? Then it isn't so easy.
You are correct. Two questions. I was asking the idealistic version. Not the practical version.

Vinny
To bring this up to our time where the U.S.A. is grappling with systemic racism just like Nazi Germany did, how about this hypothetical: It's the middle of the night and a large, black man is beating on your front door, begging you to let him in because the cops have mistaken him for a cop-killer and will likely kill him when they catch up in a few minutes.

Do you open your door, let him in, hide him, and lie to the police when they show up? If not, aren't you part of the systemic racism problem just like that SS officer back in 1940?
I think I need some elucidation from you regarding what you wrote above.

Vinny
"I only regret that I have but one lap to give to my cats."
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Re: George Floyd

Post by stuper1 » Thu Jul 16, 2020 12:23 am

drumminj wrote:
Wed Jul 15, 2020 9:36 pm
stuper1 wrote:
Wed Jul 15, 2020 6:28 pm
If not, aren't you part of the systemic racism problem just like that SS officer back in 1940?
There's a presumption here that systemic racism is a thing/issue. Did I miss where that became a given?
I read it in all of the newspapers. They wouldn't all lie about this, would they?
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Re: George Floyd

Post by stuper1 » Thu Jul 16, 2020 12:26 am

vnatale wrote:
Wed Jul 15, 2020 9:41 pm
stuper1 wrote:
Wed Jul 15, 2020 6:28 pm
vnatale wrote:
Wed Jul 15, 2020 9:46 am
Xan wrote:
Wed Jul 15, 2020 9:37 am
vnatale wrote:
Wed Jul 15, 2020 8:51 am
stuper1 wrote:
Wed Jul 15, 2020 8:22 am
It's called being holier than thou. Very common among people who aspire to be pastors. Also very common among SJWs.
This guy was a completely nice guy. Everyone loved him. But having reached the age of his late 20s, or early 30s, by him giving an answer like that he revealed that he lacked the proper sense to be a pastor.

Vinny
I think you're really asking two different questions here, though. One is "what is the RIGHT thing to do in this situation" and the other is "what would YOU do". I think we all agree that the right thing to do is to not turn the person over to the Nazis. But, when the rubber meets the road, would you actually risk losing everything for the sake of this person? Would you risk everything that you have, including your life? Would you risk condemning your own family to torture and death? Then it isn't so easy.
You are correct. Two questions. I was asking the idealistic version. Not the practical version.

Vinny
To bring this up to our time where the U.S.A. is grappling with systemic racism just like Nazi Germany did, how about this hypothetical: It's the middle of the night and a large, black man is beating on your front door, begging you to let him in because the cops have mistaken him for a cop-killer and will likely kill him when they catch up in a few minutes.

Do you open your door, let him in, hide him, and lie to the police when they show up? If not, aren't you part of the systemic racism problem just like that SS officer back in 1940?
I think I need some elucidation from you regarding what you wrote above.

Vinny
The Nazis killed the Jews due to racism. The cops are killing blacks due to racism. Todays cops are essentially Nazis. Don't we have the same duty to protect blacks from cops as we would to protect Jews from Nazis?
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