George Floyd

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pp4me
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George Floyd

Post by pp4me » Mon Jul 13, 2020 11:10 am

Some interesting information on the incident in Minneapolis. Don't know if it's true or not. Presumably it will all come out at the trial which the media, both liberal and conservative this time, couldn't wait for before setting the world aflame.....

https://www.paulcraigroberts.org/2020/0 ... and-words/

The police are not medics or toxicologists, but they sensed that Floyd had a problem far beyond passing fake $20 bills and questioned him. When they got Floyd in the police car to take him for booking, he said “I can’t breathe” and “I want to lay on the ground.”

Chauvin, a more experienced officer, realized Floyd was in trouble. The police acceded to Floyd’s request, removed him from the car, and put him on the ground as requested. The police put him on his stomach because one effect of a fentanyl overdose is nausea and the police did not want Floyd to choke to death on his own vomit.

Floyd was restrained so that he did not flail about using what little oxygen he was getting prior to the arrival on the scene of medics. The police were trying to prolong his life until the medics arrived.
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Cortopassi
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Re: George Floyd

Post by Cortopassi » Mon Jul 13, 2020 1:31 pm

If the cop was genuinely concerned about Floyd's well being, did he remove his knee?

Say a buddy of mine shoots someone through the heart. Fatal shot. But takes one minute to die. I shoot him again in the stomach. I'm free and clear, man! He was going to die anyway!

How long was he on the ground unresponsive? 3 minutes. Did they check his pulse? Yes. And didn't find one. Did they attempt CPR? Even the hands only version? Through the goodness of his heart he pulled him out of the car because they could see he was in trouble but then did not follow up with any other helpful procedures to keep him alive?

Count how long 3 minutes is and imagine that during that entire time someone is without a pulse at your feet. I just did. It is a long time. About the amount of time to pop a bag of microwave popcorn.

Unless that person just killed someone in your family and you don't give a crap if they die, I would hope the police were trained to help someone in that situation. Good luck to the lawyers trying to spin that.
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Re: George Floyd

Post by Smith1776 » Mon Jul 13, 2020 2:23 pm

I'm no medical expert, but as far as spin and jujitsu-style criminal defence is concerned... that's some Royce Gracie level shit.
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pp4me
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Re: George Floyd

Post by pp4me » Mon Jul 13, 2020 2:43 pm

Smith1776 wrote:
Mon Jul 13, 2020 2:23 pm
I'm no medical expert, but as far as spin and jujitsu-style criminal defence is concerned... that's some Royce Gracie level shit.
I don't know where the author of that piece got his information. He's not part of the defence team but a columnist who writes for the Unz Review and other publications. Had some position in the Reagan administration too, if memory serves me right.

If there is no evidence for what he is claiming then it will be a hard sell to a jury for sure. If there is, it will still be a hard sell because the media has already set the narrative and an unbiased jury will be nowhere to be found since the story went worldwide. Besides that, the jurors will have to consider the fact that if they find him not guilty the city of Minneapolis is likely to burn again.
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Re: George Floyd

Post by Kriegsspiel » Mon Jul 13, 2020 8:36 pm

Smith1776 wrote:
Mon Jul 13, 2020 2:23 pm
I'm no medical expert, but as far as spin and jujitsu-style criminal defence is concerned... that's some Royce Gracie level shit.
LOL

As I was reading it I was thinking of defense team BJJ as well. Clearly some high IQ mind-meld going on tonight.
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Re: George Floyd

Post by shekels » Tue Jul 14, 2020 10:12 am

Cortopassi wrote:
Mon Jul 13, 2020 1:31 pm
If the cop was genuinely concerned about Floyd's well being, did he remove his knee?

Say a buddy of mine shoots someone through the heart. Fatal shot. But takes one minute to die. I shoot him again in the stomach. I'm free and clear, man! He was going to die anyway!

How long was he on the ground unresponsive? 3 minutes. Did they check his pulse? Yes. And didn't find one. Did they attempt CPR? Even the hands only version? Through the goodness of his heart he pulled him out of the car because they could see he was in trouble but then did not follow up with any other helpful procedures to keep him alive?

Count how long 3 minutes is and imagine that during that entire time someone is without a pulse at your feet. I just did. It is a long time. About the amount of time to pop a bag of microwave popcorn.

Unless that person just killed someone in your family and you don't give a crap if they die, I would hope the police were trained to help someone in that situation. Good luck to the lawyers trying to spin that.
All good questions.The one answer I have to these questions
Is it against the law
Is anything the Police did against the Law?
I realize humanity plays into this but
Can the Police kneel on someones neck in Minnesota?
What are the guidelines, and did the POLICE Follow them?
¯\_(ツ)_/¯
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Re: George Floyd

Post by vnatale » Tue Jul 14, 2020 12:35 pm

shekels wrote:
Tue Jul 14, 2020 10:12 am
Cortopassi wrote:
Mon Jul 13, 2020 1:31 pm
If the cop was genuinely concerned about Floyd's well being, did he remove his knee?

Say a buddy of mine shoots someone through the heart. Fatal shot. But takes one minute to die. I shoot him again in the stomach. I'm free and clear, man! He was going to die anyway!

How long was he on the ground unresponsive? 3 minutes. Did they check his pulse? Yes. And didn't find one. Did they attempt CPR? Even the hands only version? Through the goodness of his heart he pulled him out of the car because they could see he was in trouble but then did not follow up with any other helpful procedures to keep him alive?

Count how long 3 minutes is and imagine that during that entire time someone is without a pulse at your feet. I just did. It is a long time. About the amount of time to pop a bag of microwave popcorn.

Unless that person just killed someone in your family and you don't give a crap if they die, I would hope the police were trained to help someone in that situation. Good luck to the lawyers trying to spin that.
All good questions.The one answer I have to these questions
Is it against the law
Is anything the Police did against the Law?
I realize humanity plays into this but
Can the Police kneel on someones neck in Minnesota?
What are the guidelines, and did the POLICE Follow them?
I'll ask you this question.

We are back in Germany during Nazi Germany times. You are hiding a Jew in your house. The Nazis come to your door and ask you is you are hiding any Jews in your house. You ARE breaking a law. And, if you answer them falsely you are breaking one of the Ten Commandments of not telling the truth.

Do you follow the law and the Ten Commandments and turn over the Jew you had been hiding?

Vinny
"I only regret that I have but one lap to give to my cats."
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Re: George Floyd

Post by Xan » Tue Jul 14, 2020 12:47 pm

vnatale wrote:
Tue Jul 14, 2020 12:35 pm
I'll ask you this question.

We are back in Germany during Nazi Germany times. You are hiding a Jew in your house. The Nazis come to your door and ask you is you are hiding any Jews in your house. You ARE breaking a law. And, if you answer them falsely you are breaking one of the Ten Commandments of not telling the truth.

Do you follow the law and the Ten Commandments and turn over the Jew you had been hiding?

Vinny
I read an interesting approach to this scenario a while back. Implicit in the question "are you hiding any Jews in your house" is the suffix "that we can come and kill". So you reply "no", again with the implicit suffix "that you can come and kill".

I'm not sure how generally such an approach would be appropriate.
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Re: George Floyd

Post by Cortopassi » Tue Jul 14, 2020 3:45 pm

shekels wrote:
Tue Jul 14, 2020 10:12 am

What are the guidelines, and did the POLICE Follow them?
I'm hoping there doesn't need to be a guideline against "kneel on the offender's neck until he's good and dead"

But you are right:

The manual of the Minneapolis Police Department states that neck restraints and chokeholds are basically reserved for when an officer feels caught in a life-or-death situation.

Not that Floyd looked like he was in any sort of position of power to make the officer feel that way.
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Re: George Floyd

Post by Mountaineer » Wed Jul 15, 2020 6:12 am

vnatale wrote:
Tue Jul 14, 2020 12:35 pm

I'll ask you this question.

We are back in Germany during Nazi Germany times. You are hiding a Jew in your house. The Nazis come to your door and ask you is you are hiding any Jews in your house. You ARE breaking a law. And, if you answer them falsely you are breaking one of the Ten Commandments of not telling the truth.

Do you follow the law and the Ten Commandments and turn over the Jew you had been hiding?

Vinny
The Law has been fulfilled, but not abolished. I am forgiven. I am free to the best of my ability to love my neighbor. When I slip up, I repent and remember I am baptized. And, we are to follow government laws only if they do not conflict with the Triune God; I think your scenario above is an example of a conflict where God trumps the Nazi law.
Its OK if some people don’t like you, not everyone has good taste.
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Re: George Floyd

Post by vnatale » Wed Jul 15, 2020 7:58 am

Mountaineer wrote:
Wed Jul 15, 2020 6:12 am
vnatale wrote:
Tue Jul 14, 2020 12:35 pm

I'll ask you this question.

We are back in Germany during Nazi Germany times. You are hiding a Jew in your house. The Nazis come to your door and ask you is you are hiding any Jews in your house. You ARE breaking a law. And, if you answer them falsely you are breaking one of the Ten Commandments of not telling the truth.

Do you follow the law and the Ten Commandments and turn over the Jew you had been hiding?

Vinny
The Law has been fulfilled, but not abolished. I am forgiven. I am free to the best of my ability to love my neighbor. When I slip up, I repent and remember I am baptized. And, we are to follow government laws only if they do not conflict with the Triune God; I think your scenario above is an example of a conflict where God trumps the Nazi law.
You gave what I believe to be the correct answer.

Now I would assume that you would be as aghast as I was when I asked the same question of someone who was going to be a pastor and he stated that he'd turn in the Jew? I told myself if that person lacks the sense to correctly answer this basic question then he has no business becoming a pastor.

Vinny
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Re: George Floyd

Post by stuper1 » Wed Jul 15, 2020 8:22 am

It's called being holier than thou. Very common among people who aspire to be pastors. Also very common among SJWs.
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