Roger Stone Freed by Trump

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Ad Orientem
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Roger Stone Freed by Trump

Post by Ad Orientem » Fri Jul 10, 2020 7:08 pm

Donald Trump has commuted the sentence of his ally Roger Stone sparing him from reporting to prison next week and effectively ending his legal troubles (at least Federal).

https://www.cnbc.com/2020/07/10/trump-w ... -news.html


This country is in the midst of a serious constitutional crisis with an openly lawless president using the powers of his office to shield his criminal cronies.
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Re: Roger Stone Freed by Trump

Post by Ad Orientem » Sat Jul 11, 2020 12:26 am

Roger Stone was convicted in open court by a jury of his peers of witness tampering, obstruction of official proceedings, and five counts of perjury. He was represented by the best lawyers money can buy. Throughout the proceeding there was pressure from the White House to drop or reduce charges. Following his conviction the original sentencing recommendation was withdrawn under pressure from the White House causing all of the prosecutors to withdraw from the case in protest and one resigned from the Justice Department, also in protest. Mr. Trump subsequently commuted the very lenient prison sentence given to Stone. The entire affair has been a textbook assault on the rule of law by the most corrupt administration in United States history.
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Re: Roger Stone Freed by Trump

Post by Mountaineer » Sat Jul 11, 2020 6:06 am

I thought this part of the statement by the Press Secretary was interesting:

"Mr. Stone was charged by the same prosecutors from the Mueller Investigation tasked with finding evidence of collusion with Russia. Because no such evidence exists, however, they could not charge him for any collusion-related crime. Instead, they charged him for his conduct during their investigation. The simple fact is that if the Special Counsel had not been pursuing an absolutely baseless investigation, Mr. Stone would not be facing time in prison.

"In addition to charging Mr. Stone with alleged crimes arising solely from their own improper investigation, the Mueller prosecutors also took pains to make a public and shameful spectacle of his arrest. Mr. Stone is a 67-year-old man, with numerous medical conditions, who had never been convicted of another crime. But rather than allow him to surrender himself, they used dozens of FBI agents with automatic weapons and tactical equipment, armored vehicles, and an amphibious unit to execute a pre-dawn raid of his home, where he was with his wife of many years. Notably, CNN cameras were present to broadcast these events live to the world, even though they swore they were not notified—it was just a coincidence that they were there together with the FBI early in the morning."
DNA has its own language (code), and language requires intelligence. There is no known mechanism by which matter can give birth to information, let alone language. It is unreasonable to believe the world could have happened by chance.
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Re: Roger Stone Freed by Trump

Post by vnatale » Sat Jul 11, 2020 6:53 am

Mountaineer wrote:
Sat Jul 11, 2020 6:06 am
I thought this part of the statement by the Press Secretary was interesting:

"Mr. Stone was charged by the same prosecutors from the Mueller Investigation tasked with finding evidence of collusion with Russia. Because no such evidence exists, however, they could not charge him for any collusion-related crime. Instead, they charged him for his conduct during their investigation. The simple fact is that if the Special Counsel had not been pursuing an absolutely baseless investigation, Mr. Stone would not be facing time in prison.

"In addition to charging Mr. Stone with alleged crimes arising solely from their own improper investigation, the Mueller prosecutors also took pains to make a public and shameful spectacle of his arrest. Mr. Stone is a 67-year-old man, with numerous medical conditions, who had never been convicted of another crime. But rather than allow him to surrender himself, they used dozens of FBI agents with automatic weapons and tactical equipment, armored vehicles, and an amphibious unit to execute a pre-dawn raid of his home, where he was with his wife of many years. Notably, CNN cameras were present to broadcast these events live to the world, even though they swore they were not notified—it was just a coincidence that they were there together with the FBI early in the morning."
In other words, attack all the irrelevant sideline issues rather than addressing one single issue that Ad Orientem addressed above.

Vinny
Above provided by: Vinny, who always says: "I only regret that I have but one lap to give to my cats." AND "I'm a more-is-more person."
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Re: Roger Stone Freed by Trump

Post by Mountaineer » Sat Jul 11, 2020 9:38 am

vnatale wrote:
Sat Jul 11, 2020 6:53 am
Mountaineer wrote:
Sat Jul 11, 2020 6:06 am
I thought this part of the statement by the Press Secretary was interesting:

"Mr. Stone was charged by the same prosecutors from the Mueller Investigation tasked with finding evidence of collusion with Russia. Because no such evidence exists, however, they could not charge him for any collusion-related crime. Instead, they charged him for his conduct during their investigation. The simple fact is that if the Special Counsel had not been pursuing an absolutely baseless investigation, Mr. Stone would not be facing time in prison.

"In addition to charging Mr. Stone with alleged crimes arising solely from their own improper investigation, the Mueller prosecutors also took pains to make a public and shameful spectacle of his arrest. Mr. Stone is a 67-year-old man, with numerous medical conditions, who had never been convicted of another crime. But rather than allow him to surrender himself, they used dozens of FBI agents with automatic weapons and tactical equipment, armored vehicles, and an amphibious unit to execute a pre-dawn raid of his home, where he was with his wife of many years. Notably, CNN cameras were present to broadcast these events live to the world, even though they swore they were not notified—it was just a coincidence that they were there together with the FBI early in the morning."
In other words, attack all the irrelevant sideline issues rather than addressing one single issue that Ad Orientem addressed above.

Vinny
Not attacking at all. I merely said the statement was interresing. I'm thinking you must have Stage 4 TDS, or wrote the script for the movie Minority Report. Must we all think in group step or be labeled as attack dogs by the really subversive progressive leftists (labels intended)? ;)
DNA has its own language (code), and language requires intelligence. There is no known mechanism by which matter can give birth to information, let alone language. It is unreasonable to believe the world could have happened by chance.
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Re: Roger Stone Freed by Trump

Post by WiseOne » Sat Jul 11, 2020 9:42 am

I'm curious. How is the presidential pardon granted to Roger Stone "lawless"?

Presidential pardons have been a thing for a very long time. For example:

https://www.justice.gov/pardon/obama-pardons

Not to mention Ford's pardon of Nixon back in the 1970s.

Granted, this may not have been wise in the runup to an election, but it is within the President's rights to do this no matter how unpopular a move it is. On the other hand, it will probably be forgotten soon enough. Like the next time Trump tweets something.
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Re: Roger Stone Freed by Trump

Post by drumminj » Sat Jul 11, 2020 10:03 am

vnatale wrote:
Sat Jul 11, 2020 6:53 am
Mountaineer wrote:
Sat Jul 11, 2020 6:06 am
I thought this part of the statement by the Press Secretary was interesting:

"Mr. Stone was charged by the same prosecutors from the Mueller Investigation tasked with finding evidence of collusion with Russia. Because no such evidence exists, however, they could not charge him for any collusion-related crime. Instead, they charged him for his conduct during their investigation. The simple fact is that if the Special Counsel had not been pursuing an absolutely baseless investigation, Mr. Stone would not be facing time in prison.

"In addition to charging Mr. Stone with alleged crimes arising solely from their own improper investigation, the Mueller prosecutors also took pains to make a public and shameful spectacle of his arrest. Mr. Stone is a 67-year-old man, with numerous medical conditions, who had never been convicted of another crime. But rather than allow him to surrender himself, they used dozens of FBI agents with automatic weapons and tactical equipment, armored vehicles, and an amphibious unit to execute a pre-dawn raid of his home, where he was with his wife of many years. Notably, CNN cameras were present to broadcast these events live to the world, even though they swore they were not notified—it was just a coincidence that they were there together with the FBI early in the morning."
In other words, attack all the irrelevant sideline issues rather than addressing one single issue that Ad Orientem addressed above.

Vinny
Consider for a moment that there are two different topics to discuss/have an opinion on -- the pardoning of Stone, and the statement of the press secretary (both the fact it was made, as well as the content).

Ignoring the pardon, the description above is pretty appalling. Does anyone think it's appropriate or necessary to roll up with semi-automatic rifles (what I assume they mean by "automatic weapons"), armored vehicles, and an amphibious team to arrest someone for for obstruction and perjury? And to notify the press??

And I'm with WiseOne -- pardoning someone isn't "lawless". It's clearly a power the President has, and is free to exercise. Just because one disagrees with who was pardoned doesn't make it "lawless". Is the left now suggesting that should not be a power of the executive? Same with state Governors?
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Re: Roger Stone Freed by Trump

Post by Kriegsspiel » Sat Jul 11, 2020 10:26 am

WiseOne wrote:
Sat Jul 11, 2020 9:42 am
Presidential pardons have been a thing for a very long time.
It's in the Constitution, so since the beginning of the country. Some of the early pardons are pretty wild.
You there, Ephialtes. May you live forever.
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Re: Roger Stone Freed by Trump

Post by Cortopassi » Sat Jul 11, 2020 10:26 am

The gist of all this is the investigation should have never happened in the first place, so he would have never done the things he did without the investigation, right?

So, just curious if anyone knows -- if police had a search warrant for my house to find something particular, say a gun (are these limited warrants typical?) and during the search they turn up 10 pounds of cocaine. Can they not prosecute me for the cocaine? Like they are forced to unsee it?
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Re: Roger Stone Freed by Trump

Post by drumminj » Sat Jul 11, 2020 10:28 am

Cortopassi wrote:
Sat Jul 11, 2020 10:26 am
The gist of all this is the investigation should have never happened in the first place, so he would have never done the things he did without the investigation, right?

So, just curious if anyone knows -- if police had a search warrant for my house to find something particular, say a gun (are these limited warrants typical?) and during the search they turn up 10 pounds of cocaine. Can they not prosecute me for the cocaine? Like they are forced to unsee it?
I'm not sure if it applies to your specific example, but isn't this the whole "fruit of the poisonous tree" idea, and how evidence gets thrown out when improperly collected?
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Re: Roger Stone Freed by Trump

Post by Xan » Sat Jul 11, 2020 10:30 am

Cortopassi wrote:
Sat Jul 11, 2020 10:26 am
The gist of all this is the investigation should have never happened in the first place, so he would have never done the things he did without the investigation, right?

So, just curious if anyone knows -- if police had a search warrant for my house to find something particular, say a gun (are these limited warrants typical?) and during the search they turn up 10 pounds of cocaine. Can they not prosecute me for the cocaine? Like they are forced to unsee it?
IIRC they have to "unsee" something if they saw it as a result of doing something improper. If everything with the search warrant was in order, then you're in trouble for the coke.
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Re: Roger Stone Freed by Trump

Post by Xan » Sat Jul 11, 2020 10:31 am

One other note: I don't believe Stone was pardoned. I think his sentence was commuted. There are important differences (and also similarities, of course).
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Re: Roger Stone Freed by Trump

Post by Libertarian666 » Sat Jul 11, 2020 10:38 am

drumminj wrote:
Sat Jul 11, 2020 10:03 am
vnatale wrote:
Sat Jul 11, 2020 6:53 am
Mountaineer wrote:
Sat Jul 11, 2020 6:06 am
I thought this part of the statement by the Press Secretary was interesting:

"Mr. Stone was charged by the same prosecutors from the Mueller Investigation tasked with finding evidence of collusion with Russia. Because no such evidence exists, however, they could not charge him for any collusion-related crime. Instead, they charged him for his conduct during their investigation. The simple fact is that if the Special Counsel had not been pursuing an absolutely baseless investigation, Mr. Stone would not be facing time in prison.

"In addition to charging Mr. Stone with alleged crimes arising solely from their own improper investigation, the Mueller prosecutors also took pains to make a public and shameful spectacle of his arrest. Mr. Stone is a 67-year-old man, with numerous medical conditions, who had never been convicted of another crime. But rather than allow him to surrender himself, they used dozens of FBI agents with automatic weapons and tactical equipment, armored vehicles, and an amphibious unit to execute a pre-dawn raid of his home, where he was with his wife of many years. Notably, CNN cameras were present to broadcast these events live to the world, even though they swore they were not notified—it was just a coincidence that they were there together with the FBI early in the morning."
In other words, attack all the irrelevant sideline issues rather than addressing one single issue that Ad Orientem addressed above.

Vinny
Consider for a moment that there are two different topics to discuss/have an opinion on -- the pardoning of Stone, and the statement of the press secretary (both the fact it was made, as well as the content).

Ignoring the pardon, the description above is pretty appalling. Does anyone think it's appropriate or necessary to roll up with semi-automatic rifles (what I assume they mean by "automatic weapons"), armored vehicles, and an amphibious team to arrest someone for for obstruction and perjury? And to notify the press??

And I'm with WiseOne -- pardoning someone isn't "lawless". It's clearly a power the President has, and is free to exercise. Just because one disagrees with who was pardoned doesn't make it "lawless". Is the left now suggesting that should not be a power of the executive? Same with state Governors?
My understanding is that they weren't carrying semi-auto rifles, but fully automatic weapons. SWAT teams have them, for the supposed purpose of arresting extremely dangerous criminals.
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Re: Roger Stone Freed by Trump

Post by Libertarian666 » Sat Jul 11, 2020 10:38 am

Xan wrote:
Sat Jul 11, 2020 10:31 am
One other note: I don't believe Stone was pardoned. I think his sentence was commuted. There are important differences (and also similarities, of course).
Correct. One of the differences is that he can still appeal his conviction if he wants to.
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Re: Roger Stone Freed by Trump

Post by Libertarian666 » Sat Jul 11, 2020 10:42 am

Cortopassi wrote:
Sat Jul 11, 2020 10:26 am
The gist of all this is the investigation should have never happened in the first place, so he would have never done the things he did without the investigation, right?

So, just curious if anyone knows -- if police had a search warrant for my house to find something particular, say a gun (are these limited warrants typical?) and during the search they turn up 10 pounds of cocaine. Can they not prosecute me for the cocaine? Like they are forced to unsee it?
All warrants must be "limited", according to the Constitution:

"The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized. " (https://constitution.findlaw.com/amendment4.html)

General warrants ("Go to this guy's house and ransack it looking for anything you can find") were one of the reasons that the colonists revolted against Great Britain.
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Re: Roger Stone Freed by Trump

Post by Kriegsspiel » Sat Jul 11, 2020 10:51 am

Cortopassi wrote:
Sat Jul 11, 2020 10:26 am
The gist of all this is the investigation should have never happened in the first place, so he would have never done the things he did without the investigation, right?

So, just curious if anyone knows -- if police had a search warrant for my house to find something particular, say a gun (are these limited warrants typical?) and during the search they turn up 10 pounds of cocaine. Can they not prosecute me for the cocaine? Like they are forced to unsee it?
From what I gather, perjury traps are where law enforcement will ask you about things, and if your answers don't match up for whatever reason when you testify in court, they can prosecute you for perjury.

So to use your example; the police come to your house executing a search warrant, and ask you when you put in your gun safe and you say "last March." But you weren't really sure, so you call your friend afterwards and say,
"Hey, it was last March we put in that gun safe, right?"
"Yea I guess."
"You guess?"
"Yea, might have been April or May, whatever."
"Well, if the police ask you, just say you don't remember or plead the 5th or something."
"K"

When you go to court, you testify that you put the safe in in March. Then the police produce surveillance photos of you and your friend hauling the safe into your house in April. IE, you forgot the date and just guessed at it. Now you've committed perjury. If the police intercepted the phone call with your friend, you've also tampered with a witness.

The way I see it, perjury traps are a way to trick someone who otherwise hasn't done something wrong, or you can't prove it in a court of law. Real perjury is the kind you would see on a lawyer drama on TV. Where they ask someone where they were the night of the murder and they say they were at church or something, then the lawyer shows the video of them stabbing the victim in the alley.

I'll admit I'm probably not the most informed dude around, but this appears to be a case of "While we recognize that the man did not actually steal any horses, he is obviously guilty of trying to resist being hanged for it."
You there, Ephialtes. May you live forever.
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Re: Roger Stone Freed by Trump

Post by Libertarian666 » Sat Jul 11, 2020 10:56 am

Kriegsspiel wrote:
Sat Jul 11, 2020 10:51 am
Cortopassi wrote:
Sat Jul 11, 2020 10:26 am
The gist of all this is the investigation should have never happened in the first place, so he would have never done the things he did without the investigation, right?

So, just curious if anyone knows -- if police had a search warrant for my house to find something particular, say a gun (are these limited warrants typical?) and during the search they turn up 10 pounds of cocaine. Can they not prosecute me for the cocaine? Like they are forced to unsee it?
From what I gather, perjury traps are where law enforcement will ask you about things, and if your answers don't match up for whatever reason when you testify in court, they can prosecute you for perjury.

So to use your example; the police come to your house executing a search warrant, and ask you when you put in your gun safe and you say "last March." But you weren't really sure, so you call your friend afterwards and say,
"Hey, it was last March we put in that gun safe, right?"
"Yea I guess."
"You guess?"
"Yea, might have been April or May, whatever."
"Well, if the police ask you, just say you don't remember or plead the 5th or something."
"K"

When you go to court, you testify that you put the safe in in March. Then the police produce surveillance photos of you and your friend hauling the safe into your house in April. IE, you forgot the date and just guessed at it. Now you've committed perjury. If the police intercepted the phone call with your friend, you've also tampered with a witness.

The way I see it, perjury traps are a way to trick someone who otherwise hasn't done something wrong, or you can't prove it in a court of law. Real perjury is the kind you would see on a lawyer drama on TV. Where they ask someone where they were the night of the murder and they say they were at church or something, then the lawyer shows the video of them stabbing the victim in the alley.

I'll admit I'm probably not the most informed dude around, but this appears to be a case of "While we recognize that the man did not actually steal any horses, he is obviously guilty of trying to resist being hanged for it."
This is why the best advice is "Never talk to the police (or FBI, or whatever)". Call your lawyer and have him talk to them.
That's the only way to avoid being caught in a perjury trap.
You may say "but what if your lawyer tells them something they have evidence against"?
He is just telling them what you told him. So he isn't guilty of perjury.
And you didn't talk to them at all, so neither are you.
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Re: Roger Stone Freed by Trump

Post by Kriegsspiel » Sat Jul 11, 2020 11:07 am

Libertarian666 wrote:
Sat Jul 11, 2020 10:56 am
This is why the best advice is "Never talk to the police (or FBI, or whatever)". Call your lawyer and have him talk to them.
That's the only way to avoid being caught in a perjury trap.
You may say "but what if your lawyer tells them something they have evidence against"?
He is just telling them what you told him. So he isn't guilty of perjury.
And you didn't talk to them at all, so neither are you.
In all honesty, I was thinking about that famous "don't talk to the police" video before I posted ;D
You there, Ephialtes. May you live forever.
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Re: Roger Stone Freed by Trump

Post by pp4me » Sat Jul 11, 2020 11:20 am

Like WiseOne said, almost every president has had controversial pardons so why was this one the worse in the history of the country, perhaps the whole world, or even the universe and beyond?

TDS is the only explanation. The "most corrupt administration in history"? Gimme a break. We've had presidents who have lied us into wars. If the Durham investigation actually ends up with any indictments and Biden gets elected I predict he will pardon them too. And then his will be the new "most corrupt administration in history".
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Re: Roger Stone Freed by Trump

Post by Libertarian666 » Sat Jul 11, 2020 11:27 am

pp4me wrote:
Sat Jul 11, 2020 11:20 am
Like WiseOne said, almost every president has had controversial pardons so why was this one the worse in the history of the country, perhaps the whole world, or even the universe and beyond?

TDS is the only explanation. The "most corrupt administration in history"? Gimme a break. We've had presidents who have lied us into wars. If the Durham investigation actually ends up with any indictments and Biden gets elected I predict he will pardon them too. And then his will be the new "most corrupt administration in history".
I'm sure his administration will be scandal-free, just like Obama's was (and will be again if the Democrats win and erase inconvenient history).
After all, a scandal doesn't occur when misdeeds are committed, but when they are exposed.
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Re: Roger Stone Freed by Trump

Post by WiseOne » Sat Jul 11, 2020 11:50 am

Along the lines of unrelated incidental findings that turn up in the process of a search/investigation....

What happened to Bill Clinton. Ken Starr was toiling endlessly to find something to charge him with in relation to the Whitewater real estate deal, and just happened to stumble on the Monica Lewinsky affair. That then became the subject of the investigation, down to the salacious little report about the cigar. Sounds like one might argue that this was an illegal bait & switch - and if it slips through the legality net, it certainly set a nasty precedent.

Since it's almost impossible to live life without running afoul of a law somewhere or other, it basically guarantees that if you're investigated long enough, you can rest assured you'll be charged with something. There is something seriously wrong with that in my book...instead of prosecution you actually have persecution. I don't doubt that a healthy dose of persecution was involved in the Trump Russia investigation charges.
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Re: Roger Stone Freed by Trump

Post by vnatale » Sat Jul 11, 2020 12:50 pm

Mountaineer wrote:
Sat Jul 11, 2020 9:38 am
vnatale wrote:
Sat Jul 11, 2020 6:53 am
Mountaineer wrote:
Sat Jul 11, 2020 6:06 am
I thought this part of the statement by the Press Secretary was interesting:

"Mr. Stone was charged by the same prosecutors from the Mueller Investigation tasked with finding evidence of collusion with Russia. Because no such evidence exists, however, they could not charge him for any collusion-related crime. Instead, they charged him for his conduct during their investigation. The simple fact is that if the Special Counsel had not been pursuing an absolutely baseless investigation, Mr. Stone would not be facing time in prison.

"In addition to charging Mr. Stone with alleged crimes arising solely from their own improper investigation, the Mueller prosecutors also took pains to make a public and shameful spectacle of his arrest. Mr. Stone is a 67-year-old man, with numerous medical conditions, who had never been convicted of another crime. But rather than allow him to surrender himself, they used dozens of FBI agents with automatic weapons and tactical equipment, armored vehicles, and an amphibious unit to execute a pre-dawn raid of his home, where he was with his wife of many years. Notably, CNN cameras were present to broadcast these events live to the world, even though they swore they were not notified—it was just a coincidence that they were there together with the FBI early in the morning."
In other words, attack all the irrelevant sideline issues rather than addressing one single issue that Ad Orientem addressed above.

Vinny
Not attacking at all. I merely said the statement was interresing. I'm thinking you must have Stage 4 TDS, or wrote the script for the movie Minority Report. Must we all think in group step or be labeled as attack dogs by the really subversive progressive leftists (labels intended)? ;)
I was NOT accusing you of "attacking" since you were merely quoting. My accusation of "attacking" was directed towards the Press Secretary. I've seen her in action numerous times now (sometimes the entire press conference) and your quote of her is her typical M.O. Basically deflect and obfuscate.

But from your response you were clearly attacking me. I don't think you left any doubt on that one.

Vinny
Above provided by: Vinny, who always says: "I only regret that I have but one lap to give to my cats." AND "I'm a more-is-more person."
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Re: Roger Stone Freed by Trump

Post by vnatale » Sat Jul 11, 2020 12:54 pm

drumminj wrote:
Sat Jul 11, 2020 10:03 am


Consider for a moment that there are two different topics to discuss/have an opinion on -- the pardoning of Stone, and the statement of the press secretary (both the fact it was made, as well as the content).

Ignoring the pardon, the description above is pretty appalling. Does anyone think it's appropriate or necessary to roll up with semi-automatic rifles (what I assume they mean by "automatic weapons"), armored vehicles, and an amphibious team to arrest someone for for obstruction and perjury? And to notify the press??

And I'm with WiseOne -- pardoning someone isn't "lawless". It's clearly a power the President has, and is free to exercise. Just because one disagrees with who was pardoned doesn't make it "lawless". Is the left now suggesting that should not be a power of the executive? Same with state Governors?
"Appropriate or necessary"? Maybe not. But because of his prominence we all got to hear about it whereas all the others who get treated the same we never know about and no one expresses any umbrage. But, still, all in all, irrelevant to his innocence of guilt. Just more deflection.

It's not "lawless". And, I read something today that Trump's pardon rate compared to recent presidents is low, below average. But it above average, high, for the percentage related to him in some way.

Vinny
Above provided by: Vinny, who always says: "I only regret that I have but one lap to give to my cats." AND "I'm a more-is-more person."
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Re: Roger Stone Freed by Trump

Post by vnatale » Sat Jul 11, 2020 12:56 pm

drumminj wrote:
Sat Jul 11, 2020 10:28 am
Cortopassi wrote:
Sat Jul 11, 2020 10:26 am
The gist of all this is the investigation should have never happened in the first place, so he would have never done the things he did without the investigation, right?

So, just curious if anyone knows -- if police had a search warrant for my house to find something particular, say a gun (are these limited warrants typical?) and during the search they turn up 10 pounds of cocaine. Can they not prosecute me for the cocaine? Like they are forced to unsee it?
I'm not sure if it applies to your specific example, but isn't this the whole "fruit of the poisonous tree" idea, and how evidence gets thrown out when improperly collected?
This is exactly how I would have responded if you had not first done so. So, just reaffirming your beliefs.

Vinny
Above provided by: Vinny, who always says: "I only regret that I have but one lap to give to my cats." AND "I'm a more-is-more person."
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Re: Roger Stone Freed by Trump

Post by vnatale » Sat Jul 11, 2020 12:59 pm

Libertarian666 wrote:
Sat Jul 11, 2020 10:56 am


This is why the best advice is "Never talk to the police (or FBI, or whatever)". Call your lawyer and have him talk to them.
That's the only way to avoid being caught in a perjury trap.
You may say "but what if your lawyer tells them something they have evidence against"?
He is just telling them what you told him. So he isn't guilty of perjury.
And you didn't talk to them at all, so neither are you.
Not that you disputed what I'd stated but I'm always happy when you supply your usual good arguments to support something I just wrote, which was, "Our justice system does not deliver justice."

Vinny
Above provided by: Vinny, who always says: "I only regret that I have but one lap to give to my cats." AND "I'm a more-is-more person."
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