Roger Stone Freed by Trump

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Ad Orientem
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Roger Stone Freed by Trump

Post by Ad Orientem » Fri Jul 10, 2020 7:08 pm

Donald Trump has commuted the sentence of his ally Roger Stone sparing him from reporting to prison next week and effectively ending his legal troubles (at least Federal).

https://www.cnbc.com/2020/07/10/trump-w ... -news.html


This country is in the midst of a serious constitutional crisis with an openly lawless president using the powers of his office to shield his criminal cronies.
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Re: Roger Stone Freed by Trump

Post by technovelist » Fri Jul 10, 2020 11:52 pm

Ad Orientem wrote:
Fri Jul 10, 2020 7:08 pm
Donald Trump has commuted the sentence of his ally Roger Stone sparing him from reporting to prison next week and effectively ending his legal troubles (at least Federal).

https://www.cnbc.com/2020/07/10/trump-w ... -news.html


This country is in the midst of a serious constitutional crisis with an openly lawless president using the powers of his office to shield his criminal cronies.
What exactly did Roger Stone do? How was his trial conducted?

Of course you don't know the answer to either of these questions or you couldn't have such a position.
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Ad Orientem
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Re: Roger Stone Freed by Trump

Post by Ad Orientem » Sat Jul 11, 2020 12:26 am

Roger Stone was convicted in open court by a jury of his peers of witness tampering, obstruction of official proceedings, and five counts of perjury. He was represented by the best lawyers money can buy. Throughout the proceeding there was pressure from the White House to drop or reduce charges. Following his conviction the original sentencing recommendation was withdrawn under pressure from the White House causing all of the prosecutors to withdraw from the case in protest and one resigned from the Justice Department, also in protest. Mr. Trump subsequently commuted the very lenient prison sentence given to Stone. The entire affair has been a textbook assault on the rule of law by the most corrupt administration in United States history.
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Re: Roger Stone Freed by Trump

Post by Mountaineer » Sat Jul 11, 2020 6:06 am

I thought this part of the statement by the Press Secretary was interesting:

"Mr. Stone was charged by the same prosecutors from the Mueller Investigation tasked with finding evidence of collusion with Russia. Because no such evidence exists, however, they could not charge him for any collusion-related crime. Instead, they charged him for his conduct during their investigation. The simple fact is that if the Special Counsel had not been pursuing an absolutely baseless investigation, Mr. Stone would not be facing time in prison.

"In addition to charging Mr. Stone with alleged crimes arising solely from their own improper investigation, the Mueller prosecutors also took pains to make a public and shameful spectacle of his arrest. Mr. Stone is a 67-year-old man, with numerous medical conditions, who had never been convicted of another crime. But rather than allow him to surrender himself, they used dozens of FBI agents with automatic weapons and tactical equipment, armored vehicles, and an amphibious unit to execute a pre-dawn raid of his home, where he was with his wife of many years. Notably, CNN cameras were present to broadcast these events live to the world, even though they swore they were not notified—it was just a coincidence that they were there together with the FBI early in the morning."
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Re: Roger Stone Freed by Trump

Post by vnatale » Sat Jul 11, 2020 6:53 am

Mountaineer wrote:
Sat Jul 11, 2020 6:06 am
I thought this part of the statement by the Press Secretary was interesting:

"Mr. Stone was charged by the same prosecutors from the Mueller Investigation tasked with finding evidence of collusion with Russia. Because no such evidence exists, however, they could not charge him for any collusion-related crime. Instead, they charged him for his conduct during their investigation. The simple fact is that if the Special Counsel had not been pursuing an absolutely baseless investigation, Mr. Stone would not be facing time in prison.

"In addition to charging Mr. Stone with alleged crimes arising solely from their own improper investigation, the Mueller prosecutors also took pains to make a public and shameful spectacle of his arrest. Mr. Stone is a 67-year-old man, with numerous medical conditions, who had never been convicted of another crime. But rather than allow him to surrender himself, they used dozens of FBI agents with automatic weapons and tactical equipment, armored vehicles, and an amphibious unit to execute a pre-dawn raid of his home, where he was with his wife of many years. Notably, CNN cameras were present to broadcast these events live to the world, even though they swore they were not notified—it was just a coincidence that they were there together with the FBI early in the morning."
In other words, attack all the irrelevant sideline issues rather than addressing one single issue that Ad Orientem addressed above.

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Re: Roger Stone Freed by Trump

Post by Mountaineer » Sat Jul 11, 2020 9:38 am

vnatale wrote:
Sat Jul 11, 2020 6:53 am
Mountaineer wrote:
Sat Jul 11, 2020 6:06 am
I thought this part of the statement by the Press Secretary was interesting:

"Mr. Stone was charged by the same prosecutors from the Mueller Investigation tasked with finding evidence of collusion with Russia. Because no such evidence exists, however, they could not charge him for any collusion-related crime. Instead, they charged him for his conduct during their investigation. The simple fact is that if the Special Counsel had not been pursuing an absolutely baseless investigation, Mr. Stone would not be facing time in prison.

"In addition to charging Mr. Stone with alleged crimes arising solely from their own improper investigation, the Mueller prosecutors also took pains to make a public and shameful spectacle of his arrest. Mr. Stone is a 67-year-old man, with numerous medical conditions, who had never been convicted of another crime. But rather than allow him to surrender himself, they used dozens of FBI agents with automatic weapons and tactical equipment, armored vehicles, and an amphibious unit to execute a pre-dawn raid of his home, where he was with his wife of many years. Notably, CNN cameras were present to broadcast these events live to the world, even though they swore they were not notified—it was just a coincidence that they were there together with the FBI early in the morning."
In other words, attack all the irrelevant sideline issues rather than addressing one single issue that Ad Orientem addressed above.

Vinny
Not attacking at all. I merely said the statement was interresing. I'm thinking you must have Stage 4 TDS, or wrote the script for the movie Minority Report. Must we all think in group step or be labeled as attack dogs by the really subversive progressive leftists (labels intended)? ;)
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Re: Roger Stone Freed by Trump

Post by sophie » Sat Jul 11, 2020 9:42 am

I'm curious. How is the presidential pardon granted to Roger Stone "lawless"?

Presidential pardons have been a thing for a very long time. For example:

https://www.justice.gov/pardon/obama-pardons

Not to mention Ford's pardon of Nixon back in the 1970s.

Granted, this may not have been wise in the runup to an election, but it is within the President's rights to do this no matter how unpopular a move it is. On the other hand, it will probably be forgotten soon enough. Like the next time Trump tweets something.
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Re: Roger Stone Freed by Trump

Post by drumminj » Sat Jul 11, 2020 10:03 am

vnatale wrote:
Sat Jul 11, 2020 6:53 am
Mountaineer wrote:
Sat Jul 11, 2020 6:06 am
I thought this part of the statement by the Press Secretary was interesting:

"Mr. Stone was charged by the same prosecutors from the Mueller Investigation tasked with finding evidence of collusion with Russia. Because no such evidence exists, however, they could not charge him for any collusion-related crime. Instead, they charged him for his conduct during their investigation. The simple fact is that if the Special Counsel had not been pursuing an absolutely baseless investigation, Mr. Stone would not be facing time in prison.

"In addition to charging Mr. Stone with alleged crimes arising solely from their own improper investigation, the Mueller prosecutors also took pains to make a public and shameful spectacle of his arrest. Mr. Stone is a 67-year-old man, with numerous medical conditions, who had never been convicted of another crime. But rather than allow him to surrender himself, they used dozens of FBI agents with automatic weapons and tactical equipment, armored vehicles, and an amphibious unit to execute a pre-dawn raid of his home, where he was with his wife of many years. Notably, CNN cameras were present to broadcast these events live to the world, even though they swore they were not notified—it was just a coincidence that they were there together with the FBI early in the morning."
In other words, attack all the irrelevant sideline issues rather than addressing one single issue that Ad Orientem addressed above.

Vinny
Consider for a moment that there are two different topics to discuss/have an opinion on -- the pardoning of Stone, and the statement of the press secretary (both the fact it was made, as well as the content).

Ignoring the pardon, the description above is pretty appalling. Does anyone think it's appropriate or necessary to roll up with semi-automatic rifles (what I assume they mean by "automatic weapons"), armored vehicles, and an amphibious team to arrest someone for for obstruction and perjury? And to notify the press??

And I'm with Sophie -- pardoning someone isn't "lawless". It's clearly a power the President has, and is free to exercise. Just because one disagrees with who was pardoned doesn't make it "lawless". Is the left now suggesting that should not be a power of the executive? Same with state Governors?
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Re: Roger Stone Freed by Trump

Post by Kriegsspiel » Sat Jul 11, 2020 10:26 am

sophie wrote:
Sat Jul 11, 2020 9:42 am
Presidential pardons have been a thing for a very long time.
It's in the Constitution, so since the beginning of the country. Some of the early pardons are pretty wild.
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Re: Roger Stone Freed by Trump

Post by Cortopassi » Sat Jul 11, 2020 10:26 am

The gist of all this is the investigation should have never happened in the first place, so he would have never done the things he did without the investigation, right?

So, just curious if anyone knows -- if police had a search warrant for my house to find something particular, say a gun (are these limited warrants typical?) and during the search they turn up 10 pounds of cocaine. Can they not prosecute me for the cocaine? Like they are forced to unsee it?
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Re: Roger Stone Freed by Trump

Post by drumminj » Sat Jul 11, 2020 10:28 am

Cortopassi wrote:
Sat Jul 11, 2020 10:26 am
The gist of all this is the investigation should have never happened in the first place, so he would have never done the things he did without the investigation, right?

So, just curious if anyone knows -- if police had a search warrant for my house to find something particular, say a gun (are these limited warrants typical?) and during the search they turn up 10 pounds of cocaine. Can they not prosecute me for the cocaine? Like they are forced to unsee it?
I'm not sure if it applies to your specific example, but isn't this the whole "fruit of the poisonous tree" idea, and how evidence gets thrown out when improperly collected?
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Re: Roger Stone Freed by Trump

Post by Xan » Sat Jul 11, 2020 10:30 am

Cortopassi wrote:
Sat Jul 11, 2020 10:26 am
The gist of all this is the investigation should have never happened in the first place, so he would have never done the things he did without the investigation, right?

So, just curious if anyone knows -- if police had a search warrant for my house to find something particular, say a gun (are these limited warrants typical?) and during the search they turn up 10 pounds of cocaine. Can they not prosecute me for the cocaine? Like they are forced to unsee it?
IIRC they have to "unsee" something if they saw it as a result of doing something improper. If everything with the search warrant was in order, then you're in trouble for the coke.
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