Trump's Mt. Rushmore speech

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Libertarian666
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Trump's Mt. Rushmore speech

Post by Libertarian666 » Sun Jul 05, 2020 2:00 pm

(I'm skipping the first minute in which he thanks the various people who have come to the speech, but if you want to make sure he isn't sending out any hidden signals you can watch the whole thing from the beginning.)

https://youtu.be/mXD4zPY4Ai0?t=109
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Re: Trump's Mt. Rushmore speech

Post by vnatale » Sun Jul 05, 2020 3:08 pm

Libertarian666 wrote:
Sun Jul 05, 2020 2:00 pm
(I'm skipping the first minute in which he thanks the various people who have come to the speech, but if you want to make sure he isn't sending out any hidden signals you can watch the whole thing from the beginning.)

https://youtu.be/mXD4zPY4Ai0?t=109
While I was working yesterday I listened to the entire thing three times - all the introductions prior to him and then through all the songs played during the fireworks and, finally, the concluding song played by the on site band (which was was quite good musically).

One that has always been puzzling to me regarding the Trump campaign is their choice of music artists and the songs they choose to play during the rallies.

Both choices seems like they would offend certain segments of the Trump base (i.e., White Evangelicals).

I listen to the lyrics of some of the songs and I ask myself who in the Trump campaign thinks it is a good idea to play this song during one his rallies. They certainly don't offend me and I generally greatly enjoy them. Just, again, am surprised that some of the Trump base would not take offense to them. Or, maybe a case of no one is listening to the lyrics so no one gets offended.

Guns 'N Roses being played while Air Force One is making its entrance? Gun 'N Roses and all they represent displaying the values of the Trump campaign?

It's clear to me that someone in the campaign is not thinking. Again, I was thrilled to hear the Gun 'N Roses song when the plane was coming in but.....

Vinny
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Re: Trump's Mt. Rushmore speech

Post by Mark Leavy » Sun Jul 05, 2020 3:30 pm

vnatale wrote:
Sun Jul 05, 2020 3:08 pm
They certainly don't offend me and I generally greatly enjoy them. Just, again, am surprised that some of the Trump base would not take offense to them. Or, maybe a case of no one is listening to the lyrics so no one gets offended.
Why do you dismiss the idea that Trump's base enjoys these picks as much as he does? That would be the rational, normal conclusion. People like the music they grew up with.

I don't vote and I don't count myself as right or left, but I mingle amongst them :)

In general, I find the righties can fairly lucidly describe the lefties' positions (even when they don't agree), but a large majority of the lefties only grasp caricatures of righty positions.

For example...
Of the "out and proud" Trump supporters on this board - some of which are also very Christian - do you get the impression that any of them would have any issue with any of the music?
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Re: Trump's Mt. Rushmore speech

Post by pp4me » Sun Jul 05, 2020 4:19 pm

I listen to music all the time where I probably wouldn't agree with the lyrics if I actually stopped and thought about it and delved too deeply into what the artist meant to say.

Case in point, the Christian song by Larry Gatlin, "Light at the end of the darkness". He's obviously talking about Jesus but it makes me think of the first time I took a hit on a joint when I was in Vietnam. I can play it over and over again.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_cont ... e=emb_logo
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Re: Trump's Mt. Rushmore speech

Post by vnatale » Sun Jul 05, 2020 4:42 pm

Mark Leavy wrote:
Sun Jul 05, 2020 3:30 pm
vnatale wrote:
Sun Jul 05, 2020 3:08 pm
They certainly don't offend me and I generally greatly enjoy them. Just, again, am surprised that some of the Trump base would not take offense to them. Or, maybe a case of no one is listening to the lyrics so no one gets offended.
Why do you dismiss the idea that Trump's base enjoys these picks as much as he does? That would be the rational, normal conclusion. People like the music they grew up with.

I don't vote and I don't count myself as right or left, but I mingle amongst them :)

In general, I find the righties can fairly lucidly describe the lefties' positions (even when they don't agree), but a large majority of the lefties only grasp caricatures of righty positions.

For example...
Of the "out and proud" Trump supporters on this board - some of which are also very Christian - do you get the impression that any of them would have any issue with any of the music?
From extensive direct experience I'm quite familiar with the conservative Christian mindset. I've had a lot of contact with Christians who once they have become Christians turned their backs on the music they listened to in their pre-Christian lives. It's now "the Devil's music" to them.

Also, the Trump crowd is definitely representing "the establishment". How do The Rolling Stones and Guns 'N Rose represent "establishment"? There are tons of country artists that do.

And, what is the message that the Trump campaign is trying to send when one listens to the lyrics of the Rolling Stones, "You Can't Get What You Want."

Campaign songs are picked for their message.

If you listened to all the songs played during the fireworks display after Trump's Mt. Rushmore speech it was clear that someone was on the job there. Every one of those songs had some America or Patriotic theme to them. But whoever picks the other songs played before and after rallies? NOT on the job.

Back to the fireworks songs. They even played the song that contains my ALL-TIME favorite guitar solo - Back in the USA. They did not play this version:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wf2NsGMW_A4

(With Rick Derringer playing that solo. Year later got to tell him in person how I regarded that solo.).

This version was one I'd never heard before. And, I wanted to know who it was. Finally discovered it was a Linda Rondstadt version.

Anyway, back to the Trump campaign. I'm pointing out that for an effective campaign all should be in harmony and carrying the same message.

I'm certainly not in agreement with much of the Trump campaign's message but I generally love the songs that they play. That in itself is saying a lot.

Several years ago Crosby, Stills, Nash, Young had a tour that was decidedly anti-Iraq War. This resulted in many of the crowds in the South walking out when these type songs were played. Those people heard the lyrics and were not pleased.

Just wondering who is listening to the words of the songs the Trump campaign is playing and, if so, if a Trump supporter can fit those lyrics in with the overall theme(s) of the Trump campaign.

Vinny
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Re: Trump's Mt. Rushmore speech

Post by vnatale » Sun Jul 05, 2020 4:47 pm

pp4me wrote:
Sun Jul 05, 2020 4:19 pm
I listen to music all the time where I probably wouldn't agree with the lyrics if I actually stopped and thought about it and delved too deeply into what the artist meant to say.

Case in point, the Christian song by Larry Gatlin, "Light at the end of the darkness". He's obviously talking about Jesus but it makes me think of the first time I took a hit on a joint when I was in Vietnam. I can play it over and over again.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_cont ... e=emb_logo
In general for me, I call music the cake and the lyrics the icing.

In other words, I don't care how good the lyrics might be. If the music is not there then it's not a good song. I the music IS good and the lyrics add, then all the better.

But in general I'm not that much listening to the lyrics and will even enjoy music if the vocals are all in Spanish and I'm not understanding a word sung.

But, when it comes to a campaign, the lyrics of a song should be in sync with the campaign's values (as well as the artists chosen who perform those songs).

I was shocked last night to hear them pick Neil Young's "Rockin in the Free World". The sentiments that Neil Young expresses in that song are definitely not supported by Trump policies? So why was it chosen? Just for its title with complete obliviousness to its actual lyrics and what they are communicating?

Vinny
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Re: Trump's Mt. Rushmore speech

Post by sophie » Sun Jul 05, 2020 5:07 pm

What do you guys think of the announcement to create a new national park with statues of American heroes?

I would call that doubling down on his executive order that institutes a punishment for defacing a statue that is twice as strenuous (10 year minimum jail sentence) as the punishment for rape (5 years AVERAGE sentence).

It'll be a bit difficult for the BLM crowd to complain too much about it though...MLK, Harriet Tubman, and Jackie Robinson are on the hero list.
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Re: Trump's Mt. Rushmore speech

Post by flyingpylon » Sun Jul 05, 2020 5:19 pm

Vinny, with all due respect, you don’t seem to have an accurate understanding of Trump’s base. And some people just like a good kick-ass tune, especially at celebrations, events featuring kick-ass military hardware, or campaign rallies. It’s more about setting the mood than analyzing the lyrics.
Simonjester wrote: Christians thinking rock lyrics will send you to hell, seems like a parody of the 1990 moral majority years, and as over the top as the religious right crowd were back then, cancel culturing a presidential music selection still seems far fetched..
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Re: Trump's Mt. Rushmore speech

Post by Libertarian666 » Sun Jul 05, 2020 5:51 pm

sophie wrote:
Sun Jul 05, 2020 5:07 pm
What do you guys think of the announcement to create a new national park with statues of American heroes?
I think it's great. Not because I'm a big fan of statues, but I am a big fan of giving the finger to these cretins and terrorists.
sophie wrote:
Sun Jul 05, 2020 5:07 pm

I would call that doubling down on his executive order that institutes a punishment for defacing a statue that is twice as strenuous (10 year minimum jail sentence) as the punishment for rape (5 years AVERAGE sentence).

It'll be a bit difficult for the BLM crowd to complain too much about it though...MLK, Harriet Tubman, and Jackie Robinson are on the hero list.
No, BLM will just call them Uncle Toms and want to tear them down too. Remember they wanted to destroy the Emancipation Monument, which doesn't make any sense if they actually cared about anything other than chaos.
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Re: Trump's Mt. Rushmore speech

Post by stuper1 » Sun Jul 05, 2020 6:45 pm

Vinny trying to give Trump lessons on showmanship is like me trying to give Mark lessons on how to live the good life.
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Re: Trump's Mt. Rushmore speech

Post by vnatale » Sun Jul 05, 2020 10:13 pm

flyingpylon wrote:
Sun Jul 05, 2020 5:19 pm
Vinny, with all due respect, you don’t seem to have an accurate understanding of Trump’s base. And some people just like a good kick-ass tune, especially at celebrations, events featuring kick-ass military hardware, or campaign rallies. It’s more about setting the mood than analyzing the lyrics.
From here I get a good understanding of a certain segment of Trump's base. Not the typical set of people that many people assume to be his base.

And, I did read an entire book wherein the book author spent an entire year with Trump's people in New Orleans in an attempt to understand them and their attraction to him. I also understand a lot of it is a hatred of Hillary and anything liberal or Democratic.

And, what is kick-ass or setting a mood for the Rolling Stones, "You Can't Get What You Want"? It was never a hit song. Does it even get played on classic rock stations? You have to be at least 65 years old to even
remember it.

I'm sure there must be some drive-y rap or hip hop songs but due to the lyrics the Trump campaign is on the ball enough to never play any of them.

Vinny
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Re: Trump's Mt. Rushmore speech

Post by vnatale » Sun Jul 05, 2020 10:22 pm

stuper1 wrote:
Sun Jul 05, 2020 6:45 pm
Vinny trying to give Trump lessons on showmanship is like me trying to give Mark lessons on how to live the good life.
You are not keeping things straight. What Trump actually does and what his campaign workers actually do are two separate things. Do you think he actually picks any of those songs?

Trump is a master showman, entertainer. No question with that. Why else would someone like me who does not agrees with him on practically anything he has to say but will still listen to his entire speech three times yesterday? For the pure entertainment value! But I could do a vastly superior job in picking his campaign songs for him than who is currently doing a poor job doing it.

Curious. How many other took in in his Mt. Rushmore speech in its entirety? How many the entire ceremony? From Air Force One coming it to the last song played by the band after the fireworks?

Finally yesterday I also caught Biden taking calls from educators. They were only able to ask him three questions in the time allotted because he spent between 5 - 10 minutes to answer each of them!!! !!!!!!!!! He'd lose me about a minute into his monologues.

We all know that time is money. Therefore my corollary is that I don't trust anyone to manage my money who has demonstrated that they cannot manage money.

Biden belongs to the John Kerry blowhard school of politicians. And, while Obama is right up there for me, he was also oftentimes guilty of the same. Please just give a concise answer without covering everything under the sun.

Vinny
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Re: Trump's Mt. Rushmore speech

Post by vnatale » Sun Jul 05, 2020 10:23 pm

Libertarian666 wrote:
Sun Jul 05, 2020 7:48 pm
stuper1 wrote:
Sun Jul 05, 2020 6:45 pm
Vinny trying to give Trump lessons on showmanship is like me trying to give Mark lessons on how to live the good life.
Well, I don't know. I mean it's not like Trump had a successful TV show or anything.
Oh, wait...
You are mixing apples and oranges here. What Trump actually does compared to the performances of those around him.

Vinny
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Re: Trump's Mt. Rushmore speech

Post by dualstow » Mon Jul 06, 2020 6:29 am

sophie wrote:
Sun Jul 05, 2020 5:07 pm
What do you guys think of the announcement to create a new national park with statues of American heroes?
I love it, for the same reason as Libertarian666.
traveling...
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Re: Trump's Mt. Rushmore speech

Post by Mountaineer » Mon Jul 06, 2020 10:52 am

dualstow wrote:
Mon Jul 06, 2020 6:29 am
sophie wrote:
Sun Jul 05, 2020 5:07 pm
What do you guys think of the announcement to create a new national park with statues of American heroes?
I love it, for the same reason as Libertarian666.
Ditto. It would be nice if something like this could/would give the violence lovers and those who are giving them a free pass some self-respect, and more importantly respect for others' property and lives, and respect for the city/state/country they obviously choose to live in. In my opinion, Jesus had it right when asked what are the two greatest commandments: love God, and love neighbor as yourself. When a growing number of people ditch those principles, our society increasingly diminishes in many, many ways.
Psalm 146
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Re: Trump's Mt. Rushmore speech

Post by vnatale » Mon Jul 06, 2020 2:32 pm

Mountaineer wrote:
Mon Jul 06, 2020 10:52 am
dualstow wrote:
Mon Jul 06, 2020 6:29 am
sophie wrote:
Sun Jul 05, 2020 5:07 pm
What do you guys think of the announcement to create a new national park with statues of American heroes?
I love it, for the same reason as Libertarian666.
Ditto. It would be nice if something like this could/would give the violence lovers and those who are giving them a free pass some self-respect, and more importantly respect for others' property and lives, and respect for the city/state/country they obviously choose to live in. In my opinion, Jesus had it right when asked what are the two greatest commandments: love God, and love neighbor as yourself. When a growing number of people ditch those principles, our society increasingly diminishes in many, many ways.
He also had it right when he said all of this:

"Matthew 25:33-40 33He will put the sheep on his right and the goats on his left. 34"Then the King will say to those on his right, 'Come, you who are blessed by my Father; take your inheritance, the kingdom prepared for you since the creation of the world. 35For I was hungry and you gave me something to eat, I was thirsty and you gave me something to drink, I was a stranger and you invited me in, 36I needed clothes and you clothed me, I was sick and you looked after me, I was in prison and you came to visit me.' 37"Then the righteous will answer him, 'LORD, when did we see you hungry and feed you, or thirsty and give you something to drink? 38When did we see you a stranger and invite you in, or needing clothes and clothe you? 39When did we see you sick or in prison and go to visit you?' 40"The King will reply, 'Truly I tell you, whatever you did for one of the least of these brothers and sisters of mine, you did for me.'

Matthew 25:45 45"He will reply, 'Truly I tell you, whatever you did not do for one of the least of these, you did not do for me.'"

Vinny
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Re: Trump's Mt. Rushmore speech

Post by pp4me » Mon Jul 06, 2020 4:45 pm

I haven't heard him weigh in on the subject but my guess is that Ron Paul would not have voted to spend one penny of taxpayer money on Trump's idea.

I agree.
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Re: Trump's Mt. Rushmore speech

Post by vnatale » Mon Jul 06, 2020 6:48 pm

pp4me wrote:
Mon Jul 06, 2020 4:45 pm
I haven't heard him weigh in on the subject but my guess is that Ron Paul would not have voted to spend one penny of taxpayer money on Trump's idea.

I agree.
When I first glanced at your email I thought you were responding to me and staying on the Biblical theme and saying that Paul the Apostle (previously known as Saul of Tarsus) would not have agreed.

But after I carefully read what you wrote. I'd have to agree with you that as a good Libertarian Ron Paul would say that there are no Constitutional grounds for the taxpayers money to pay for something like this.

This is just one of those many areas where the only difference between Republicans and Democrats / conservative and liberals is how far in each direction they'll go. Otherwise they are carrying out the same policies.

Vinny
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Re: Trump's Mt. Rushmore speech

Post by vnatale » Mon Jul 06, 2020 6:50 pm

vnatale wrote:
Mon Jul 06, 2020 6:48 pm
pp4me wrote:
Mon Jul 06, 2020 4:45 pm
I haven't heard him weigh in on the subject but my guess is that Ron Paul would not have voted to spend one penny of taxpayer money on Trump's idea.

I agree.
When I first glanced at your email I thought you were responding to me and staying on the Biblical theme and saying that Paul the Apostle (previously known as Saul of Tarsus) would not have agreed.

But after I carefully read what you wrote. I'd have to agree with you that as a good Libertarian Ron Paul would say that there are no Constitutional grounds for the taxpayers money to pay for something like this.

This is just one of those many areas where the only difference between Republicans and Democrats / conservative and liberals is how far in each direction they'll go. Otherwise they are carrying out the same policies.

And, of course, the goal of each sets of parties / interests is NOT to put the interests of the American people first but, instead, to both equally serve their corporate masters and to maximize their possibilities of getting re-elected.

Vinny
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