An outsiders perspective of the politcal turmoil

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sophie
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Re: An outsiders perspective of the politcal turmoil

Post by sophie » Fri Jun 26, 2020 4:10 pm

I'll chime in here....I also have suspected that masks are largely worthless, and there is certainly zero evidence in support of them.

We had to take an online course in how to don and doff PPE at the beginning of the pandemic. It is not at all easy to get it right and there is a good reason why training is necessary. I regard the mask as mainly a fashion statement.

This is relevant to this thread: if you don't toe the line in the US you can now officially be persecuted in many ways: you can be fired, victimized by violent thugs, singled out for ostracism, etc etc. We used to be able to say we live in a free society, but not anymore!!!
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Re: An outsiders perspective of the politcal turmoil

Post by flyingpylon » Fri Jun 26, 2020 4:22 pm

Back to the original topic... I saw this posted by an acquaintance on social media:
"Agree to disagree" is reserved for things like "I don't like coffee". Not racism, homophobia, and sexism. Not human rights. Not basic common decency. If I unfriend you during this, it IS personal. We do not have a difference of opinion. We have a difference in morality.
When you combine that kind of statement with different opinions about the role of government in people's lives, things can get a bit crazy.

I point out to people that if we didn't give government so much control in the first place then each election would not feel like such a life or death matter and our politics would be a lot less contentious. But that argument doesn't usually go anywhere.
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Re: An outsiders perspective of the politcal turmoil

Post by Cortopassi » Fri Jun 26, 2020 4:31 pm

Then I have to ask all of the Trump/right leaning people here:

You just know Trump, and probably Pence want to call bullshit on how things are being handled. So why is there a vacuum of leadership there? Why do they defer to the task force, then either openly or covertly defy them?

Why not decide they are going to take a different tack? Assemble doctors who side with his thinking? He's done it in every other darn circumstance, he fires people left and right for not towing the line, etc.

Get docs who agree that masks are worthless and show the proof. Get ones who agree we have to isolate those at risk and everyone else go on with their lives. And so on.

Tech, others, why?? I actually would welcome this as well. But why isn't it happening? I was just in a meeting where every individual was of this opinion. So it definitely is widespread. Why is it not being done? Why instead dumb statements like if we test less we'll have less cases?
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Re: An outsiders perspective of the politcal turmoil

Post by flyingpylon » Fri Jun 26, 2020 4:31 pm

Cortopassi wrote:
Fri Jun 26, 2020 12:29 pm
For fun, I went to Denninger to see. He has dug in 200% on the masks are worthless side.

Yes, people are most certainly using them wrong. Yes, I am sure I am using it wrong.
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Re: An outsiders perspective of the politcal turmoil

Post by pugchief » Fri Jun 26, 2020 4:47 pm

Cortopassi wrote:
Fri Jun 26, 2020 4:31 pm
Then I have to ask all of the Trump/right leaning people here:

You just know Trump, and probably Pence want to call bullshit on how things are being handled. So why is there a vacuum of leadership there? Why do they defer to the task force, then either openly or covertly defy them?

Why not decide they are going to take a different tack? Assemble doctors who side with his thinking? He's done it in every other darn circumstance, he fires people left and right for not towing the line, etc.

Get docs who agree that masks are worthless and show the proof. Get ones who agree we have to isolate those at risk and everyone else go on with their lives. And so on.

Tech, others, why?? I actually would welcome this as well. But why isn't it happening? I was just in a meeting where every individual was of this opinion. So it definitely is widespread. Why is it not being done? Why instead dumb statements like if we test less we'll have less cases?
Purely speculation, but my guess that is that on the outside chance they are proven wrong down the road it will lead to a bigger fiasco and fallout than just tacitly disagreeing.
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Re: An outsiders perspective of the politcal turmoil

Post by pp4me » Fri Jun 26, 2020 4:53 pm

flyingpylon wrote:
Fri Jun 26, 2020 4:22 pm
Back to the original topic... I saw this posted by an acquaintance on social media:
"Agree to disagree" is reserved for things like "I don't like coffee". Not racism, homophobia, and sexism. Not human rights. Not basic common decency. If I unfriend you during this, it IS personal. We do not have a difference of opinion. We have a difference in morality.
When you combine that kind of statement with different opinions about the role of government in people's lives, things can get a bit crazy.

I point out to people that if we didn't give government so much control in the first place then each election would not feel like such a life or death matter and our politics would be a lot less contentious. But that argument doesn't usually go anywhere.
Smoking a pipe on my back porch the other day I was thinking deep thoughts on evolutionary biology (not that I know squat about it but I do know about smoking pipes).

How is it that ants have been programmed to behave with such a singularity of purpose to survive? I mean think about how amazing this is. We think of ourselves as more evolved than they are but how in the hell do they communicate with each other? Did they invent some form of social media we can't currently begin to fathom? And there are many more examples in nature, like the salmon run that takes place every year in Alaska. Or monarch butterflies who require several generations to complete a journey, somehow passing on the knowledge of the ultimate purpose and destination.

Then you have the bears who are much more independent creatures who benefit from the predictability of the salmon.

Makes me wonder which direction humans are heading in. I guess natural selection will ultimately have the answer.
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Re: An outsiders perspective of the politcal turmoil

Post by Tortoise » Fri Jun 26, 2020 5:36 pm

Cortopassi wrote:
Fri Jun 26, 2020 4:31 pm
Get docs who agree that masks are worthless and show the proof.
This statement particularly caught my eye. Isn't the burden of scientific proof on people who propose the new recommendation or mandate (e.g., mask-wearing) for everyone? Prior to March, not wearing masks in the U.S. was the norm, and up to that time nobody required scientific proof that it was acceptable.
Cortopassi wrote:
Fri Jun 26, 2020 4:31 pm
Why instead dumb statements like if we test less we'll have less cases?
Because that's not a dumb statement. It's a simple fact, and he said it in the context of (to paraphrase), "Part of the reason why case counts are rising is because we're doing more testing." It's actually a very important fact for people to keep in mind when they read news stories that disingenuously report case count increases without reporting the corresponding increase in the number of tests.

Regarding the OP, are things really that rosy in European culture compared to US culture? In the UK there's Brexit drama, and various European countries have been committing cultural suicide via unchecked Muslim immigration. Wasn't it just a week or two ago when those armed Chechens were rioting in France's Dijon prefecture, running around with AKs, shooting into the air and setting cars on fire? Come to think of it, aren't Muslim riots a pretty typical occurrence in various parts of France these days?

Maybe the biggest difference is that most European citizens just roll over and let their traditions, history, and culture disintegrate around them, whereas in America at least some of us argue and push back a little to slow it down?
Joe is just Biden his time now.
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Re: An outsiders perspective of the politcal turmoil

Post by I Shrugged » Fri Jun 26, 2020 6:09 pm

flyingpylon wrote:
Fri Jun 26, 2020 4:22 pm


I point out to people that if we didn't give government so much control in the first place then each election would not feel like such a life or death matter and our politics would be a lot less contentious. But that argument doesn't usually go anywhere.
That is exactly right, and should be repeated much more often!
At a minimum, we could say that about "federal government", and let electoral power devolve to the states, as it was meant to be.
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Re: An outsiders perspective of the politcal turmoil

Post by technovelist » Fri Jun 26, 2020 6:26 pm

WhiteElephant wrote:
Thu Jun 25, 2020 4:25 pm
I'm mostly lurking this board as there are usually some interesting threads about the PP.

Of course I noticed the political threads lately and I've been pretty interested in them. As a Dutch citizen this board gives me a different perspective of what's going on in the US.

What struck me is how completely polarized the political climate seems, even among board members. This is very hard to imagine for me.
I've been used to Americans telling me it's just the media, and it's really not as bad as it seems. But what I'm reading here is so ridiculously polarized, it's kinda hard to believe people seem so antagonized about this right/left thing. As if it's possible the other half is so completely, fundamentally wrong about, well really, everything.
The Democrat party is in thrall to terrorists. Notice that no Democrat leader has said that "Black Lives Matter" and Antifa are terrorists, even though that is clearly what they are.

Thus, if the Democrats win in November, the terrorists will have free run of the country. This will lead to a civil war because we have a very highly armed citizenry who aren't going to take tyranny lying down.

The only way this can be avoided is for the Democrats to be totally wiped out in the election so that their party has to be rebuilt from the ground up as a pro-American party, whatever its other precepts may be.

So yes, the Democrats are completely, fundamentally wrong about everything of any significance.
Another nod to the most beautiful equation: e + 1 = 0
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Re: An outsiders perspective of the politcal turmoil

Post by technovelist » Fri Jun 26, 2020 6:31 pm

sophie wrote:
Fri Jun 26, 2020 4:10 pm
I'll chime in here....I also have suspected that masks are largely worthless, and there is certainly zero evidence in support of them.

We had to take an online course in how to don and doff PPE at the beginning of the pandemic. It is not at all easy to get it right and there is a good reason why training is necessary. I regard the mask as mainly a fashion statement.

This is relevant to this thread: if you don't toe the line in the US you can now officially be persecuted in many ways: you can be fired, victimized by violent thugs, singled out for ostracism, etc etc. We used to be able to say we live in a free society, but not anymore!!!
This will get exponentially worse if the left gets into power.
Another nod to the most beautiful equation: e + 1 = 0
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Re: An outsiders perspective of the politcal turmoil

Post by technovelist » Fri Jun 26, 2020 6:32 pm

flyingpylon wrote:
Fri Jun 26, 2020 4:22 pm
Back to the original topic... I saw this posted by an acquaintance on social media:
"Agree to disagree" is reserved for things like "I don't like coffee". Not racism, homophobia, and sexism. Not human rights. Not basic common decency. If I unfriend you during this, it IS personal. We do not have a difference of opinion. We have a difference in morality.
When you combine that kind of statement with different opinions about the role of government in people's lives, things can get a bit crazy.

I point out to people that if we didn't give government so much control in the first place then each election would not feel like such a life or death matter and our politics would be a lot less contentious. But that argument doesn't usually go anywhere.
Yes, that is a difference in morality.
One side wishes to live and let live.
The other wishes to impose their diktat on the other side.
It should be obvious which is which.
Another nod to the most beautiful equation: e + 1 = 0
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Re: An outsiders perspective of the politcal turmoil

Post by technovelist » Fri Jun 26, 2020 6:35 pm

Cortopassi wrote:
Fri Jun 26, 2020 4:31 pm
Then I have to ask all of the Trump/right leaning people here:

You just know Trump, and probably Pence want to call bullshit on how things are being handled. So why is there a vacuum of leadership there? Why do they defer to the task force, then either openly or covertly defy them?

Why not decide they are going to take a different tack? Assemble doctors who side with his thinking? He's done it in every other darn circumstance, he fires people left and right for not towing the line, etc.

Get docs who agree that masks are worthless and show the proof. Get ones who agree we have to isolate those at risk and everyone else go on with their lives. And so on.

Tech, others, why?? I actually would welcome this as well. But why isn't it happening? I was just in a meeting where every individual was of this opinion. So it definitely is widespread. Why is it not being done? Why instead dumb statements like if we test less we'll have less cases?
I'll be happy to tell you my opinion.

Trump is in the fight of his life, and he knows it. If he loses in November, the country is destroyed.
Thus, he is reserving his firepower for critical issues and doesn't care if his attackers are screaming about masks. If anything, that helps him because they are wasting their effort.
Another nod to the most beautiful equation: e + 1 = 0
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