Being supportive of rioters

Other discussions not related to the Permanent Portfolio

Moderator: Global Moderator

User avatar
technovelist
Executive Member
Executive Member
Posts: 6022
Joined: Wed Sep 15, 2010 11:20 pm

Being supportive of rioters

Post by technovelist » Tue Jun 02, 2020 9:42 am

This is a wonderful example of how not to react to these events:

https://www.phillymag.com/news/2020/06/ ... rotesters/
Another nod to the most beautiful equation: e + 1 = 0
User avatar
Cortopassi
Executive Member
Executive Member
Posts: 1823
Joined: Mon Feb 24, 2014 2:28 pm
Location: Illinois

Re: Being supportive of rioters

Post by Cortopassi » Tue Jun 02, 2020 10:43 am

Interesting, I though that was a well written and well thought out article expressing anger at the looting, but also some level of understanding.

Aren't you an anarchist, tech? Don't you want to see it all burn anyway? ;)
User avatar
technovelist
Executive Member
Executive Member
Posts: 6022
Joined: Wed Sep 15, 2010 11:20 pm

Re: Being supportive of rioters

Post by technovelist » Tue Jun 02, 2020 11:03 am

Cortopassi wrote:
Tue Jun 02, 2020 10:43 am
Interesting, I though that was a well written and well thought out article expressing anger at the looting, but also some level of understanding.

Aren't you an anarchist, tech? Don't you want to see it all burn anyway? ;)
From the article:
"Whether it’s to overturn the whole system as the anarchists want, to hasten the race war as the white nationalists want, or just to “get paid” as the looters want, they all distract from the message the protesters meant to deliver with their shouts, bricks and flames."

The only message delivered with bricks and flames is "I am a murderous criminal".

As for anarchy, it means no rulers, not no rules.

Read https://cdn.mises.org/For%20a%20New%20L ... esto_3.pdf for an explanation.
Another nod to the most beautiful equation: e + 1 = 0
User avatar
Cortopassi
Executive Member
Executive Member
Posts: 1823
Joined: Mon Feb 24, 2014 2:28 pm
Location: Illinois

Re: Being supportive of rioters

Post by Cortopassi » Tue Jun 02, 2020 11:14 am

technovelist wrote:
Tue Jun 02, 2020 11:03 am
Cortopassi wrote:
Tue Jun 02, 2020 10:43 am
Interesting, I though that was a well written and well thought out article expressing anger at the looting, but also some level of understanding.

Aren't you an anarchist, tech? Don't you want to see it all burn anyway? ;)
From the article:
"Whether it’s to overturn the whole system as the anarchists want, to hasten the race war as the white nationalists want, or just to “get paid” as the looters want, they all distract from the message the protesters meant to deliver with their shouts, bricks and flames."

The only message delivered with bricks and flames is "I am a murderous criminal".

As for anarchy, it means no rulers, not no rules.

Read https://cdn.mises.org/For%20a%20New%20L ... esto_3.pdf for an explanation.
Are you being selective with your clipping?

And then, after they do, the opportunists come around to push their own agendas. Whether it’s to overturn the whole system as the anarchists want, to hasten the race war as the white nationalists want, or just to “get paid” as the looters want, they all distract from the message the protesters meant to deliver with their shouts, bricks and flames.

I believe she is defining the opportunists as the object for the shouts bricks and flames, not the protesters?

And elsewhere in the article

This morning, a middle-aged woman who lives on the other side of The Shoppes at La Salle from me was having none of that. As we both stood in front of the ransacked Rite Aid drugstore — the only business in the strip mall to have successfully been invaded — she let her fellow African-Americans, some of them likely neighbors, have it.

“These ain’t La Salle students did this, they’re all home,” she said to no one in particular. “This ain’t about no George Floyd. These are crazy people who took advantage of a situation.”

She didn’t stop there. “I live here. I come here every day. I get my medicines here. Why would anyone trash their own neighborhood like that? I’m black, and today, I’m ashamed to be black. They treat us like animals because we act like animals.”
User avatar
sophie
Executive Member
Executive Member
Posts: 3658
Joined: Mon Apr 23, 2012 7:15 pm

Re: Being supportive of rioters

Post by sophie » Tue Jun 02, 2020 11:29 am

Hey, I've got a great idea. Build a new city somewhere, safely away from existing communities. On an island, maybe. Mandate that there will be no police, court system, or jails. Let's even be nice and offer people who move there free housing and a small stipend, by way of attraction. In return, they have to agree to strict limitations on travel out of the city.

Wonder what the results of this experiment would be. I bet life there wouldn't be much different from current minority communities, but perhaps the residents would be happier without having to deal with outsiders trying to enforce laws. We certainly would be happier with less crime to worry about. In other words, why not give them what they want - EXACTLY what they want?
User avatar
Cortopassi
Executive Member
Executive Member
Posts: 1823
Joined: Mon Feb 24, 2014 2:28 pm
Location: Illinois

Re: Being supportive of rioters

Post by Cortopassi » Tue Jun 02, 2020 12:12 pm

sophie wrote:
Tue Jun 02, 2020 11:29 am
Hey, I've got a great idea. Build a new city somewhere, safely away from existing communities. On an island, maybe. Mandate that there will be no police, court system, or jails. Let's even be nice and offer people who move there free housing and a small stipend, by way of attraction. In return, they have to agree to strict limitations on travel out of the city.

Wonder what the results of this experiment would be. I bet life there wouldn't be much different from current minority communities, but perhaps the residents would be happier without having to deal with outsiders trying to enforce laws. We certainly would be happier with less crime to worry about. In other words, why not give them what they want - EXACTLY what they want?
A bit like Escape from New York, eh?

Obviously you, and I and I am sure most people don't understand the motivations. I can't see going out and looting for any reason other than if I was literally starving to death. But we don't live in these communities. Democrats, Republicans, churches, community groups, etc have tried for decades to improve the situation (or maybe not, depending what you believe). I certainly don't have a solution, but I've heard enough black parents on TV talking about counseling their black kids on how to deal with police so they don't get hurt/killed/arrested that I am sure I'd be damn pissed off if that was my situation.
User avatar
Xan
Administrator
Administrator
Posts: 2615
Joined: Tue Mar 13, 2012 1:51 pm

Re: Being supportive of rioters

Post by Xan » Tue Jun 02, 2020 12:20 pm

Cortopassi wrote:
Tue Jun 02, 2020 12:12 pm
I've heard enough black parents on TV talking about counseling their black kids on how to deal with police so they don't get hurt/killed/arrested that I am sure I'd be damn pissed off if that was my situation.
Isn't that common sense? Everybody should know how to behave around police, particularly in any kind of confrontational scenario, which certainly includes something as simple as a traffic stop. The advice is the same for everyone: be polite and respectful, follow orders (while making it clear that you're not voluntarily cooperating, if needed), don't make sudden motions, do everything you can to not make the officer feel threatened. The more comfortable he is with the encounter, the better it'll go for everyone.
User avatar
Cortopassi
Executive Member
Executive Member
Posts: 1823
Joined: Mon Feb 24, 2014 2:28 pm
Location: Illinois

Re: Being supportive of rioters

Post by Cortopassi » Tue Jun 02, 2020 12:26 pm

Xan wrote:
Tue Jun 02, 2020 12:20 pm
Cortopassi wrote:
Tue Jun 02, 2020 12:12 pm
I've heard enough black parents on TV talking about counseling their black kids on how to deal with police so they don't get hurt/killed/arrested that I am sure I'd be damn pissed off if that was my situation.
Isn't that common sense? Everybody should know how to behave around police, particularly in any kind of confrontational scenario, which certainly includes something as simple as a traffic stop. The advice is the same for everyone: be polite and respectful, follow orders (while making it clear that you're not voluntarily cooperating, if needed), don't make sudden motions, do everything you can to not make the officer feel threatened. The more comfortable he is with the encounter, the better it'll go for everyone.
I don't disagree with what you've said, but there is still a bias. White guy driving a Mercedes, no problem. Black guy, probably might look up if the car was stolen.

From a recent article below. So you think blacks and Hispanics just don't distance as well???
--------------------------------------
According to the NYPD data, 374 summons “for violations of emergency procedures and acts liable to spread disease” were handed out by police between March 16 and May 5. A summons is a ticket that is usually issued to someone by a police officer for a court appearance after violating a law.

Of that 374 summons, 304 were handed out to black and Hispanic people.

Related information from the Brooklyn DA’s office confirmed that 40 people were arrested from March 17 to May 4 for not following social distancing measures. 35 of those people were black, four of them were Hispanic and one was white.

https://time.com/5834414/nypd-social-di ... rest-data/
User avatar
Xan
Administrator
Administrator
Posts: 2615
Joined: Tue Mar 13, 2012 1:51 pm

Re: Being supportive of rioters

Post by Xan » Tue Jun 02, 2020 12:34 pm

Cortopassi wrote:
Tue Jun 02, 2020 12:26 pm
I don't disagree with what you've said, but there is still a bias. White guy driving a Mercedes, no problem. Black guy, probably might look up if the car was stolen.
Don't they always run the plates and the license on pretty much every stop?

Cortopassi wrote:
Tue Jun 02, 2020 12:26 pm
From a recent article below. So you think blacks and Hispanics just don't distance as well???
--------------------------------------
According to the NYPD data, 374 summons “for violations of emergency procedures and acts liable to spread disease” were handed out by police between March 16 and May 5. A summons is a ticket that is usually issued to someone by a police officer for a court appearance after violating a law.

Of that 374 summons, 304 were handed out to black and Hispanic people.

Related information from the Brooklyn DA’s office confirmed that 40 people were arrested from March 17 to May 4 for not following social distancing measures. 35 of those people were black, four of them were Hispanic and one was white.

https://time.com/5834414/nypd-social-di ... rest-data/
No Asians either. My guess as to the situation here is that police have been friendily reminding people to do proper distancing, which 99% of the time results in compliance, except for small subsets (teenage males, I'm guessing) which decide to ignore/challenge/sass such requests.

As for whether white teenagers are choosing not to engage in such a way, or whether police decline to ticket them while ticketing black teenagers for the same thing, I suppose we don't know. Personally I think the former is more likely. Perhaps combined with more white kids being inside playing video games while more black kids are hanging out with their friends on the street.
User avatar
pugchief
Executive Member
Executive Member
Posts: 3540
Joined: Tue Jun 26, 2012 2:41 pm
Location: suburbs of Chicago, IL

Re: Being supportive of rioters

Post by pugchief » Tue Jun 02, 2020 12:42 pm

Cortopassi wrote:
Tue Jun 02, 2020 12:26 pm
So you think blacks and Hispanics just don't distance as well???

Correct. I know for a fact this has been a huge problem in Chicago since the lockdown began. Huge parties on the South and West sides with wanton violation of the orders. Google it.
User avatar
dualstow
Executive Member
Executive Member
Posts: 10469
Joined: Wed Oct 27, 2010 10:18 am
Contact:

Re: Being supportive of rioters

Post by dualstow » Tue Jun 02, 2020 12:45 pm

sophie wrote:
Tue Jun 02, 2020 11:29 am
Hey, I've got a great idea. Build a new city somewhere, safely away from existing communities. On an island, maybe. Mandate that there will be no police, court system, or jails. Let's even be nice and offer people who move there free housing and a small stipend, by way of attraction. In return, they have to agree to strict limitations on travel out of the city.

Wonder what the results of this experiment would be. I bet life there wouldn't be much different from current minority communities, but perhaps the residents would be happier without having to deal with outsiders trying to enforce laws. We certainly would be happier with less crime to worry about. In other words, why not give them what they want - EXACTLY what they want?
United States of Nevada in the 'Mandibles' novel?
New York City disbanded its anticrime unit of plainclothes officers on June 15, part of a $1 billion reduction in the city’s police budget. —WSJ
User avatar
technovelist
Executive Member
Executive Member
Posts: 6022
Joined: Wed Sep 15, 2010 11:20 pm

Re: Being supportive of rioters

Post by technovelist » Tue Jun 02, 2020 1:45 pm

Cortopassi wrote:
Tue Jun 02, 2020 11:14 am
technovelist wrote:
Tue Jun 02, 2020 11:03 am
Cortopassi wrote:
Tue Jun 02, 2020 10:43 am
Interesting, I though that was a well written and well thought out article expressing anger at the looting, but also some level of understanding.

Aren't you an anarchist, tech? Don't you want to see it all burn anyway? ;)
From the article:
"Whether it’s to overturn the whole system as the anarchists want, to hasten the race war as the white nationalists want, or just to “get paid” as the looters want, they all distract from the message the protesters meant to deliver with their shouts, bricks and flames."

The only message delivered with bricks and flames is "I am a murderous criminal".

As for anarchy, it means no rulers, not no rules.

Read https://cdn.mises.org/For%20a%20New%20L ... esto_3.pdf for an explanation.
Are you being selective with your clipping?

And then, after they do, the opportunists come around to push their own agendas. Whether it’s to overturn the whole system as the anarchists want, to hasten the race war as the white nationalists want, or just to “get paid” as the looters want, they all distract from the message the protesters meant to deliver with their shouts, bricks and flames.

I believe she is defining the opportunists as the object for the shouts bricks and flames, not the protesters?
Sorry, I don't agree that the opportunists are the ones using the shouts, bricks, and flames. Note the phrase "protests and riots" in this passage:

"This same person got upset about something else last night as a second curfew descended on the city. His target this time: The people who have turned the protests and riots into an illegal shopping spree."

Protests aren't violent. Riots are.

Want to reconsider your position?
Another nod to the most beautiful equation: e + 1 = 0
Post Reply