Xanax please

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doodle
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Xanax please

Post by doodle » Mon Apr 27, 2020 10:44 am

Donald J. Trump

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Why should the people and taxpayers of America be bailing out poorly run states (like Illinois, as example) and cities, in all cases Democrat run and managed, when most of the other states are not looking for bailout help? I am open to discussing anything, but just asking?

37.7K
7:41 AM - Apr 27, 2020

Just hit me with a tranquilizer...two trillion for Wall Street and we're going to start liquidating city health departments. God almighty I just can't anymore
Last edited by doodle on Mon Apr 27, 2020 12:28 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Kriegsspiel
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Re: Xanax please

Post by Kriegsspiel » Mon Apr 27, 2020 10:52 am

Yea, I saw some commentors talking about how poorly managed states and the like are going to try to grab some of the bailout too. This is really the Chinese Curse diplopia: we definitely live in interesting times.
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Re: Xanax please

Post by Cortopassi » Mon Apr 27, 2020 11:00 am

Par for the course. We should expect it from him. The crazy uncle who says crazy stuff, but just so happens to be president.

How about the federal government, whether democrats or republicans, running debt to over 20T? Huh, Mr. Trump?

At this point it seems we can print money with no repercussions. We should 100% bail out every state and start over. Would be an interesting experiment.
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Re: Xanax please

Post by ochotona » Mon Apr 27, 2020 11:31 am

Really manly for a President of the United States to be ginning people up for a destruction of the United States, rather than seeking dialog and solutions on how to manage States through the crisis. Just let everything fall over and break. Genius.

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Xan
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Re: Xanax please

Post by Xan » Mon Apr 27, 2020 11:49 am

Cortopassi wrote:
Mon Apr 27, 2020 11:00 am
Par for the course. We should expect it from him. The crazy uncle who says crazy stuff, but just so happens to be president.

How about the federal government, whether democrats or republicans, running debt to over 20T? Huh, Mr. Trump?

At this point it seems we can print money with no repercussions. We should 100% bail out every state and start over. Would be an interesting experiment.
The federal government is a currency issuer; it has access to the "magic" of the printing press. The state governments are currency users. Currency users actually do need balanced budgets.

Many states have spent profligately. They have made promises they cannot possibly keep (like guaranteed 7% returns on bloated pension funds for employees). Bailing them out would be a mistake of the highest order. Now instead of one entity with unconstrained spending, we'd have fifty-one.

The states that have over-promised DO need to declare bankruptcy.
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Re: Xanax please

Post by doodle » Mon Apr 27, 2020 12:32 pm

Xan wrote:
Mon Apr 27, 2020 11:49 am
Cortopassi wrote:
Mon Apr 27, 2020 11:00 am
Par for the course. We should expect it from him. The crazy uncle who says crazy stuff, but just so happens to be president.

How about the federal government, whether democrats or republicans, running debt to over 20T? Huh, Mr. Trump?

At this point it seems we can print money with no repercussions. We should 100% bail out every state and start over. Would be an interesting experiment.
The federal government is a currency issuer; it has access to the "magic" of the printing press. The state governments are currency users. Currency users actually do need balanced budgets.

Many states have spent profligately. They have made promises they cannot possibly keep (like guaranteed 7% returns on bloated pension funds for employees). Bailing them out would be a mistake of the highest order. Now instead of one entity with unconstrained spending, we'd have fifty-one.

The states that have over-promised DO need to declare bankruptcy.
Guess that logic doesn't apply to corporations that have taken on huge loads of debt to buyback shares and drive up share prices for managements enrichment.

I don't give two shits which side you take, just have some logical consistency
Last edited by doodle on Mon Apr 27, 2020 1:11 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Xanax please

Post by doodle » Mon Apr 27, 2020 1:11 pm

That of the "leader" you defend
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Re: Xanax please

Post by shekels » Mon Apr 27, 2020 3:53 pm

doodle wrote:
Mon Apr 27, 2020 12:32 pm
Xan wrote:
Mon Apr 27, 2020 11:49 am
Cortopassi wrote:
Mon Apr 27, 2020 11:00 am
Par for the course. We should expect it from him. The crazy uncle who says crazy stuff, but just so happens to be president.

How about the federal government, whether democrats or republicans, running debt to over 20T? Huh, Mr. Trump?

At this point it seems we can print money with no repercussions. We should 100% bail out every state and start over. Would be an interesting experiment.
The federal government is a currency issuer; it has access to the "magic" of the printing press. The state governments are currency users. Currency users actually do need balanced budgets.

Many states have spent profligately. They have made promises they cannot possibly keep (like guaranteed 7% returns on bloated pension funds for employees). Bailing them out would be a mistake of the highest order. Now instead of one entity with unconstrained spending, we'd have fifty-one.

The states that have over-promised DO need to declare bankruptcy.
Guess that logic doesn't apply to corporations that have taken on huge loads of debt to buyback shares and drive up share prices for managements enrichment.

I don't give two shits which side you take, just have some logical consistency
Ok let me say this. Corporation and State Bailout are 2 separate thing IMO.

Corporate Bailout in most cases are consisting of Loans to the Indebted Corp world.
With plenty Corp Debt the Banks/Bond Holders are on the hook already.
So is it really a Corporate Bailout or just Bailout for the Banks/Bond/stock Holders that will take the loss if/when the Corporation go down?

Also
State Bailout..How do you Bailout a State,what does the state put up for Collateral? So who gets the assets in case of a default?
Or should the FED or maybe the U.S. citizens (government) give the states what they need?

Now I do propose the FED bailout of Social Security, and replace the worthless Bonds with U.S. Treasury Bonds.
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doodle
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Re: Xanax please

Post by doodle » Mon Apr 27, 2020 9:28 pm

The state is shouldering a public burden not enriching a private few. If anything let the corporations stock and bond holders take the hit and funnel trillions in monetary resources into those that are actually applying funds towards fighting pandemic. Can't believe some work so hard to defend the behaviors of those people raping this country's money supply for private gain.
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Re: Xanax please

Post by shekels » Mon Apr 27, 2020 9:53 pm

doodle wrote:
Mon Apr 27, 2020 9:28 pm
The state is shouldering a public burden not enriching a private few. If anything let the corporations stock and bond holders take the hit

Agreed

doodle wrote:
Mon Apr 27, 2020 9:28 pm
and funnel trillions in monetary resources into those that are actually applying funds towards fighting pandemic.

From what source are you proposing a State Bailout for Pensions and all the state wasteful Spending the FED or the U.S taxpayer?
Or is the money just for fighting the Pandemic?

doodle wrote:
Mon Apr 27, 2020 9:28 pm
Can't believe some work so hard to defend the behaviors of those people raping this country's money supply for private gain.

Like you are not trying to defend people raping the money supply by advocating giving it to States.

When you are wanting Bailouts for States where is the Money going to come from The Federal Reserve or the U.S Taxpayer/Citizen?
Please be specific.
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Re: Xanax please

Post by doodle » Tue Apr 28, 2020 12:55 am

Im not advocating bailing out state pension funds. I have seen government profligacy and understand it's dimensions. Its the logical inconsistency and hypocrisy of bailing out private corporations and then threatening to not send aid to states who are shouldering public pandemic response.

I also have a huuuugggee issue with efforts that the right has taken to shield corporations and the elite crust from any marketplace discipline. The moral hazard the right is creating in our economy is extremely dangerous
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Re: Xanax please

Post by shekels » Tue Apr 28, 2020 7:00 am

doodle wrote:
Tue Apr 28, 2020 12:55 am
Im not advocating bailing out state pension funds. I have seen government profligacy and understand it's dimensions. Its the logical inconsistency and hypocrisy of bailing out private corporations and then threatening to not send aid to states who are shouldering public pandemic response.

I also have a huuuugggee issue with efforts that the right has taken to shield corporations and the elite crust from any marketplace discipline. The moral hazard the right is creating in our economy is extremely dangerous
I agree it is a huge issue that that Big Corp/Banks are not allowed to fail.
Corporations can go thru some form of Bankruptcy and let someone decide it's fate.
I do not agree that Bailouts are a right vs left issue.

Looks like trump is open to discussion, maybe Trump is not keen on bailing out State run programs either.
Trump is just pointing out the Dem run State/Cities.

@realDonaldTrump
Why should the people and taxpayers of America be bailing out poorly run states (like Illinois, as example) and cities, in all cases Democrat run and managed, when most of the other states are not looking for bailout help? I am open to discussing anything, but just asking?
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doodle
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Re: Xanax please

Post by doodle » Tue Apr 28, 2020 7:42 am

Because he's talking about New York and California which by the fact that they are so heavily populated are experiencing this pandemic on a different scale than a state like Wyoming or Arizona. He is playing with people's lives during a pandemic to score political points. That is inexcusable behavior for the president.
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doodle
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Re: Xanax please

Post by doodle » Tue Apr 28, 2020 7:47 am

Should also mention that I have seen data to suggest that biggest bailout states (those that take more federal dollars than they contribute ) are red States....Kentucky, West Virginia...
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Re: Xanax please

Post by shekels » Tue Apr 28, 2020 8:04 am

doodle wrote:
Tue Apr 28, 2020 7:42 am
Because he's talking about New York and California which by the fact that they are so heavily populated are experiencing this pandemic on a different scale than a state like Wyoming or Arizona. He is playing with people's lives during a pandemic to score political points. That is inexcusable behavior for the president.
Political Points ::) Political Points they all are trying to score Political Points.
What you don't think Chuck Schumer or Pelosi are trying to do? Yes score Political Points.
Truth be known this continued Lock down may be the means for them to score Political Points.
Schumer/Pelosi want a change in Management so a little Lock down/Imprisonment is not beyond their realm..

You may want to consider Trump is not the only one..Inexcusable behavior
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Re: Xanax please

Post by Tortoise » Tue Apr 28, 2020 12:51 pm

doodle wrote:
Tue Apr 28, 2020 7:47 am
Should also mention that I have seen data to suggest that biggest bailout states (those that take more federal dollars than they contribute ) are red States....Kentucky, West Virginia...
I assume that in the statement above, you're actually referring to subsidies, not bailouts.

A state that receives net subsidies from the federal government each year (e.g., for the agriculture industry) is not the same thing as a state that's on the brink of bankruptcy and receives a large one-time bailout from the federal government to prevent it.

I'm generally opposed to most subsidies and bailouts -- whether of companies or of state governments. It tends to introduce moral hazard and distort markets.

In the special case of this pandemic, I'm very curious about how some of the states that are at risk of bankruptcy (e.g., NY and CA) got that way. Specifically, I'm wondering if a big part of the problem was that when those state governments issued their lockdown orders, they continued to pay the salaries and benefits of most state employees even while they choked off the salaries and benefits of millions of private-sector employees by forcing "non-essential" companies to shut down. If so, that seems like a stark double standard.
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Re: Xanax please

Post by Tyler » Tue Apr 28, 2020 1:12 pm

One of the biggest problems I have with state bailouts is the incentives involved. If states get the idea that the Feds will step in and bail them out if things get bad enough, they actually have an incentive to stay closed and ruin their own economies in the short term to get bailed out of their long term obligations that existed way before the virus ever hit. Companies have no choice of when they're allowed to open for business, but states do. And frankly I don't trust many of them to act in the best interests of their own residents, much less the residents of other states paying the bill.
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