Time to replace Macbook Pro?

[dualstow]

{Apple is} not worth the extra $, IMO, and still too many programs that can't be run on Mac. At least 4 that are essential to my business fall into that category.

How about this https://www.macpractice.com/dental-software

[dualstow]

Understandable.

[Dieter]

Apple porn (rumour mongering) -- https://www.tomsguide.com/news/macbook- ... ell-xps-13

[vnatale]

Don't worry wizard, all my data are safely on Dropbox. BTW how many of you rely on SmartSync? It makes it possible to have a smaller hard drive, since you only pull files from the cloud when you need them. It runs seamlessly and it's pretty cool, except that the download delay can be a little irritating.

All Excel files that I use are kept in my dropbox folders so each time I save them not only are they saved to the computer I'm currently using but also going to dropbox and being distributed to all other computers I currently have turned on. And, for QuickBooks which I'm running remotely on my office computer, I'm constantly doing backups of it during the day to a dropbox folder so that in case I lose the VPN connection to my office computer I can get at that latest backup via dropbox at this computer I'm using at home.

I could not live without dropbox. Totally stopped me from using flash drives.

Vinny

[vnatale]

Xan, I guess that's how much I appreciate the operating system. I hate Windows, post-XP and I hate Linux even more. MacOS and late OSX before it are so stable and everything just works the way I want it to. If they also soldered in something that releases a skunk smell all day long just to torture me, I would still stick with their products. Mac mini forever.

Have you used Windows 10? I liked XP a lot. Windows 7 even more. But Windows 10 has absolutely spoiled me.

VInny

[vnatale]

Soldered RAM and glued batteries....geez, Apple.

That removes the disadvantage that Macbook Air used to have, that you couldn't ever upgrade it. But I agree with dualstow. Windows is way too finicky and I have no patience for Linux. Mac OS has gotten more finicky and Windows-like in the post Steve Jobs era, but it is still the best operating system for people who just want to use a computer and not have go through multiple hoops every time they want to get something done.

Maybe. But not worth the extra $, IMO, and still too many programs that can't be run on Mac. At least 4 that are essential to my business fall into that category.

Has QuickBooks ever created a satisfactory product for Apple use?

Vinny

[vnatale]

Has QuickBooks ever created a satisfactory product for Apple use?

Vinny

No idea, as I use Windows and Quicken.

I use Quicken extensively to keep track of all my personal income and expense items plus all investment transactions. But it's a poor, poor, poor substitute for business accounting. QuickBooks is far more efficient for inputting information and vastly superior reporting.

Have you used Windows 10? I liked XP a lot. Windows 7 even more. But Windows 10 has absolutely spoiled me.

VInny

Not a fan of W10. Liked XP a lot, loved 7. But 10 is too non-intuitive.

I think I read one or two books on it prior to using it. Windows 10 just has so many nice features which Windows 7 lacks. I feel it every time and miss it whenever I use my office Windows 7 computer. Oh, you can't do that. This isn't Windows 10.

[vnatale]

I use Quicken extensively to keep track of all my personal income and expense items plus all investment transactions. But it's a poor, poor, poor substitute for business accounting. QuickBooks is far more efficient for inputting information and vastly superior reporting.

The only thing Quicken can't do is accurately track Equity. So I use Wave Accounting (online, free) to produce a Balance Sheet that includes Equity. The P&L (Income & Expense) works fine with Quicken. Those are the only 2 reports my CPA needs to complete my 1120.

Windows 10 just has so many nice features which Windows 7 lacks. I feel it every time and miss it whenever I use my office Windows 7 computer. Oh, you can't do that. This isn't Windows 10.

Can you site a couple of examples? I find that functions that worked seamlessly in 7 are a pain in 10, particularly networking among several computers.

I left click on the start button. It brings up the column of my apps. I click on the # sign. It brings up a square of all the letters in the alphabet. I want to open Quicken. I click on Q, which brings me to all the programs / apps that start with Q. I like methodical processes.

When I have multiple Excels file open and I click on the Excel icon on my taskbar it does not only show me the title for the file but also gives me a view of it.

I'd tell you more if I were using my office computer more extensively but for now I'm mostly just using it to access the QuickBooks file that is on our server.

Vinny

[vnatale]

Both of those things work in 7 with the proper settings.

Both my office computer and my home computer were installed using standard windows installations without making any changes.

I'm looking at my Windows 7 office computer now and I'd not have any guess where to go to match the settings that Windows 10 seems to have right "out of the box".

VInny

[Smith1776]

I'm currently rocking a 2015 15" MacBook Pro, and I'm also thinking replacement within the next year is in order. When I graduate and start working in industry, I'll use my first pay check on a new laptop as my "reward."

I have the following specs:

- Core i7 4770HQ
- 16GB RAM
- Iris Pro 5200
- 256GB SSD

My biggest gripe is that I didn't layout the extra 500 bucks for dedicated graphics and double the storage when I first bought this. Otherwise I'd probably keep it for a while longer. Either way, I should be able to get a decent chunk of change to use towards a new machine.

[WiseOne]

Soldered RAM and glued batteries....geez, Apple.

That removes the disadvantage that Macbook Air used to have, that you couldn't ever upgrade it. But I agree with dualstow. Windows is way too finicky and I have no patience for Linux. Mac OS has gotten more finicky and Windows-like in the post Steve Jobs era, but it is still the best operating system for people who just want to use a computer and not have go through multiple hoops every time they want to get something done.

Maybe. But not worth the extra $, IMO, and still too many programs that can't be run on Mac. At least 4 that are essential to my business fall into that category.

Has QuickBooks ever created a satisfactory product for Apple use?

Vinny

Everything that Intuit makes is optimized for Windows. Their Mac versions universally suck, especially Quickbooks.

I found that Quickbooks on Mac lacks some key functionality, and the exported data/backup files are incompatible between Mac and Windows versions. Absolutely insane. It's sort of a big giant message that says "We at Intuit hate Macs and want to punish you for using one." Your only real option if you want to cover both platforms is to spring for Quickbooks Online, which is not only more expensive than buying the desktop software but also lacks some key functionality, even worse than the Mac desktop version.

I agree that in a commercial situation you pretty much have to use Windows. It's personal or academic computing where Mac shines.

[vnatale]

Has QuickBooks ever created a satisfactory product for Apple use?

Vinny

Everything that Intuit makes is optimized for Windows. Their Mac versions universally suck, especially Quickbooks.

I found that Quickbooks on Mac lacks some key functionality, and the exported data/backup files are incompatible between Mac and Windows versions. Absolutely insane. It's sort of a big giant message that says "We at Intuit hate Macs and want to punish you for using one." Your only real option if you want to cover both platforms is to spring for Quickbooks Online, which is not only more expensive than buying the desktop software but also lacks some key functionality, even worse than the Mac desktop version.

I agree that in a commercial situation you pretty much have to use Windows. It's personal or academic computing where Mac shines.

Isn't it just a situation where they (and other software developers) look at the potential market for their software and decide to serve the largest market? What is the breakdown between commercial users of Windows and Apple? 98% / 2%.

Reason why I've never owned an Apple computer.

On the other had I knew that my first tablet should be an iPad because in 2012 it had by far the largest
installed base which meant app developers would be first certain to serve that market and, possibly, if they had any resources left over they'd develop the same apps for other operating systems.

I guess Apple computers are these wondrous machines. But when I compare specs for an equivalent Windows computer the Apple computers always seem way overpriced. And, then we get to the software problems above.

That's led me to own just about every type of Apple device except for their computers.

Vinny

[dualstow]

What is the breakdown between commercial users of Windows and Apple? 98% / 2%.

Maybe it's beside the point, but counting everything in commercial you'd have to count servers and then Linux would win, right? Also, I think there are a fair amount of Mac mini servers out there.
Here's a source which I admittedly have barely looked at, but I'm going to look at it.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Usage_sha ... ng_systems

[vnatale]

What is the breakdown between commercial users of Windows and Apple? 98% / 2%.

Maybe it's beside the point, but counting everything in commercial you'd have to count servers and then Linux would win, right? Also, I think there are a fair amount of Mac mini servers out there.
Here's a source which I admittedly have barely looked at, but I'm going to look at it.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Usage_sha ... ng_systems

Thanks for providing the above. This seems to be the most relevant to computer operating systems:

Capture.JPG (18.34 KiB) Viewed 4327 times

I think that supports that developers of computer software will almost always focus on making sure it works for computers running Windows.

And, with that market share, I think the rest of world shares my opinion of the value of Windows based computers versus Apple/Mac based computers.

Vinny

[dualstow]

Yup. It's a damn shame.

[vnatale]

In what way?

Vinny

[dualstow]

Windows sucks. It's not not popular because it's good. It's still popular because it's entrenched*, and it initially became popular for a variety of reasons, none of them being quality. Even Microsoft knows this. Remember the famous "don't worry, be crappy" speech? Microsoft is a fantastic company, and I admire it. I'm a shareholder. But Windows just sucks.

*See puchief's post earlier in this thread in which he talks about what a pain it would be to switch. That's not only because of cost. Some of my friends and family members are the same. They don't run a business, but as much as they love their iPhones they don't even want to try an alternative to Windows for their laptops and desktops. (Both can afford it). Do they like Windows? No.

You have a different opinion. That's fine. But, that's what I meant when I said the market share stats are a damn shame.

[dualstow]

To be fair, as I pointed out in that post, the cost of migrating data would be the same even if moving to a different Windows based program.

Right, like I said, it's not only about cost.

When the software options are comparable, and when Macs are roughly the same price for a comparable set up, LMK and I'll consider switching.

Ok, it is about cost. But not only about cost. Btw, just stating the obvious here, but a lot of gamers choose Windows over Mac for the same reason. Software. More games. (I'm not a game player).

Oh yeah, and when Apple becomes less heavy-handed with things like proprietary connectors and iTunes and whatnot.

iTunes is a disaster. I try to avoid it.
Unfortunately, they seem to be going in the direction of heavier-handedness, not lighter.

I think it was in Neal Stephenson's immensely entertaining essay (or very small book), "In the beginning, there was the command line" he pointed out -- this was a very long time ago -- the contradiction of hackers who were into Apple, because Apple was such a closed system. The book sang the praises of Linux. He compared Windows to crummy station wagons, Macs to overpriced Euro cars, and Linux to tanks with a complete assembly and usage manual.
At some point, I visited the page on his personal website that has that essay after Mac adopted the Intel processor and a kind of Unix-based operating system. Under the essay, Stephenson basically wrote, "Things have changed. I'm a Mac user now."

[vnatale]

I like the concept of Linux. But it's just too damn hard to understand/troubleshoot, and seems very buggy with a lot of things. Like wifi setup, for instance. But you can't complain about the price; Free is good.

Free is good except when you factor in the value of your time. Then free to purchase but then too much of your time to implement ends up being quite costly.

Vinny

[dualstow]

I like the concept of Linux. But it's just too damn hard to understand/troubleshoot, and seems very buggy with a lot of things. Like wifi setup, for instance. But you can't complain about the price; Free is good.

Apple's operating system has been free for a few iterations now. Granted, you could say it's baked into the price of the hardware. But, if your Macbook lasts several years and and a new OS is out every six months, you can upgrade as you please. No certifications, no hassle. When you buy a new Macbook, you can just transfer everything from the old to the new with a cable. The last time I did that, it even copied the browser tabs I had open on the old machine (!)

OS aside, Linux has all those free 3rd party programs, but then Vinny's comment really applies. You get what you pay for.

Updating to a new MacOS does often break 3rd party programs, and that's very annoying.

[vnatale]

I like the concept of Linux. But it's just too damn hard to understand/troubleshoot, and seems very buggy with a lot of things. Like wifi setup, for instance. But you can't complain about the price; Free is good.

Apple's operating system has been free for a few iterations now. Granted, you could say it's baked into the price of the hardware. But, if your Macbook lasts several years and and a new OS is out every six months, you can upgrade as you please. No certifications, no hassle. When you buy a new Macbook, you can just transfer everything from the old to the new with a cable. The last time I did that, it even copied the browser tabs I had open on the old machine (!)

OS aside, Linux has all those free 3rd party programs, but then Vinny's comment really applies. You get what you pay for.

Updating to a new MacOS does often break 3rd party programs, and that's very annoying.

I just realized another major, major, major drawback to Apple products. The planned obsolescence, which becomes quite costly.

For my older iPhones, iPads apps just stop working as they don't work without having an updated operating system.

Within the Windows environment you are always able to find versions of software that work with the older versions of operating systems (e.g., Windows 7). They don't become unavailable and near impossible to find. That considerably drives up the cost of owning these Apple devices if any app is a must for you.

Vinny

[Mountaineer]

I just realized another major, major, major drawback to Apple products. The planned obsolescence, which becomes quite costly.
Vinny

Interesting. My 10 year old MacBookPro still works fine, just a bit slower than my year-old one and far better than my old Windows Dell desktop which I have updated with maximum memory and bigger capacity harddrive. I have also updated the memory and internal drive to an SSD though in the old MacBookPro.

[dualstow]

That's not entirely accurate, Vinny. The small devices have planned obsolescence but Mac computers, like Mountaineer's, just keep on trucking. One day my Windows box just imploded.

[Xan]

I thought that Apple was pretty bad about continuing to support older hardware with software, though. Are these 10-year-old Macs running unsupported OSes?

[vnatale]

I just realized another major, major, major drawback to Apple products. The planned obsolescence, which becomes quite costly.
Vinny

Interesting. My 10 year old MacBookPro still works fine, just a bit slower than my year-old one and far better than my old Windows Dell desktop which I have updated with maximum memory and bigger capacity harddrive. I have also updated the memory and internal drive to an SSD though in the old MacBookPro.

I should have been more specific as since I have no experience with their computers I don't know what is the case with them. But I did think I was being semi-specific when I wrote: "For my older iPhones, iPads apps just stop working as they don't work without having an updated operating system. '

Vinny