Time to replace Macbook Pro?

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WiseOne
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Time to replace Macbook Pro?

Post by WiseOne » Mon Apr 13, 2020 2:46 pm

Following Smith1776's lead, I could use a little advice from my fellow wise forum members....

I've been working all this time on my 13" macbook pro (late 2013 model). I'm comfortable with it and it handles normal stuff well. Serious computational work is done via remote access to my research server. It's loaded up with 16g RAM and it has a 500 Gb flash drive. This is adequate thanks to Dropbox's Smart Sync setting. I have Mojave running on it and I dare not upgrade further. I don't miss any of the bells and whistles in subsequent Mac OS versions, except for not being able to use virtual backgrounds in Zoom meetings.

The battery is just about shot, and it is finally showing with a "Replace soon" message. It lasts maybe an hour or two if not plugged into power, and it's definitely gotten worse in the past week or so. I looked up the battery replacement procedure on iFixit. It's a difficult procedure that will take a few hours, and the kit will cost probably $150 with the needed tools plus shipping & tax. I've done surgery on Macs before but I've not tackled anything like this battery replacement.

And of course the bigger question....would I be better off springing the $1500-$2000 to get a new laptop? It would be a few hundred $$ less between trading this in and getting the university discount, but obviously still a nice chunk of change. There are some neat new features on the recent laptops which I would probably like, but won't miss terribly if I don't have them.

Grateful for any and all advice!
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Re: Time to replace Macbook Pro?

Post by dualstow » Mon Apr 13, 2020 2:54 pm

If these weren’t such germy times, I would recommend taking a look at the secondhand market. I know a guy who is basically set for life, but he always buys used Macbooks. I think he replaces them every 1-2 years.

I saw one for sale at the one physical repair shop in the neighborhood for just $300. (It has High Sierra on it).
I’m typing this on a used ipad mini.

Obviously, you’re used to a more powerful machine and I know you’ll want something recent enough that it has Mojave on it- there are a lot out there. Especially since you’re doing the computational work on remote machine.

But...germy times.
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Re: Time to replace Macbook Pro?

Post by CT-Scott » Mon Apr 13, 2020 3:27 pm

I have a 2013 MacBook Pro (just 8GB RAM, I think) but upgraded recently to a 16" model (upgraded it, too, with 32GB, 1TB drive, and possibly an upgraded GPU). I think I paid about $3000 for it (yikes).

But, if you're wanting to save money, you could definitely get more life out of that 2013 MacBook Pro 13 and just get the battery replaced. Obviously, that's hard to do right now during the lockdown. Do you need to use it unplugged or can you get by keeping it plugged in most/all of the time? I work remotely (even before the COVID-19 lockdown) and basically plug mine in no matter what room I work out of (it might not be true of the older models, but the newer ones seem to bypass the battery altogether when plugged in once the battery is at 100%). If you did that, you could consider backing up your files and totally reformatting/reinstalling the OS, as that could give you a performance bump (after years of use, the hard drive has likely become pretty fragmented), but that *might* (maybe not) force you into upgrading to the latest OS (Catalina).

If you want a new laptop, I would recommend one with the newest "Magic Keyboard." This is what they're calling the latest version of the scissor-style keyboard, which is what they used to use (like on your 2013 model), before they introduced the Butterfly-style keyboard that most people dislike and which were problematic (sticky keys, keys not always printing). I like the newest Air models, as I love the lighter weight of those, and the newest models have that new "Magic Keyboard." There are some complaints online that if you tax them too hard, they get hot, the fan kicks in, and the performance gets throttled. But depending on what you're doing with it, that may be a non-issue.

If you want something more powerful than the Air, they are rumored to replace the MacBook Pro 13 (possibly becoming a 14" model) in about a month with the new keyboard.
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Re: Time to replace Macbook Pro?

Post by Hal » Mon Apr 13, 2020 3:45 pm

I would suggest having a look on eBay to find the average price of your MacBook.
If the repairs will cost more than half the market price, then look at replacing.

https://www.ebay.com/b/2013-Apple-Lapto ... /bn_225496
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Re: Time to replace Macbook Pro?

Post by Dieter » Mon Apr 13, 2020 4:13 pm

I tend to like buying new and keep as long as can. Although I also consider Apple refurbished.

I'm currently typing on my late 2012 Mac Mini (bought new late 2012); I've upgraded RAM and the internal hard drive to SSD -- the good old days of being able to upgrade macs at least a little.

That being said, I don't do my day job on this computer.

And I'd be tempted to upgrade. I'm pondering iPad or laptop purchase.

Would you want same "ultraportable" form factor?

If Mac, I'd steer clear of the 13" MacBook Pro until updated with a better Keyboard (rumors say this year soonish).
(no direct experience, but LOTS of online complaints about the keyboard.
Apple switched out that keyboard on their recent 16" Pro and Air releases, so I guess something to those complaints).

The 2020 MacBook Air is getting good reviews. Has come out in the last month or so.

Should be faster than what you have, even though Air is more optimized for form factor and battery life

(compare on https://browser.geekbench.com/v5/cpu/se ... ir+2020+i5 for user reported benchmarks; this link to the middle CPU offered on the 2020 Air).

An updated Pro should be faster (and the 16", outside your listed budget, but even faster).

If considering Windows, I've heard good things about the ThinkPad L13 Yoga (13") and Dell XPS 13
(in the same "ultraportable" space as the MacBook Air, although at least the Yoga flips into tablet mode).
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Re: Time to replace Macbook Pro?

Post by WiseOne » Mon Apr 13, 2020 4:26 pm

awesome, I knew you guys would be super helpful. CT Scott & Dieter thank you for the keyboard advice! very key, pun intended. Kinda rules out the refurbished idea, and when the Apple stores reopen I'll go have a look at the new macbook pros. Dualstow, why is buying used every 1-2 years better than buying new every 7 years? Curious.

Replacing the battery would cost just about half the current ebay refurbished value, and probably a bit more than the Apple store's trade-in value. Since I use this as my everything computer (desktop replacement, light/very interactive Matlab/data analysis, couch surfing, kitchen recipe viewing, and business travel/presentation making) I should probably upgrade to the newest pro model if they get that keyboard fixed. No travel in the foreseeable future so I have time. Keeping it plugged in can be done for now.

An OS reinstall is a great idea if I have a day or so to kill. Turns out you can restore the original OS from the recovery partition, and then upgrade to the OS of your choice from the apple store.
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Re: Time to replace Macbook Pro?

Post by Mountaineer » Mon Apr 13, 2020 5:25 pm

I too endorse the “new-old” keyboard. I have an 2018 MacBook Pro 15” laptop with the new at that time keyboard. I also have a 2009 MacBook Pro 15” laptop. The keyboard on the 2009 is far superior to the 2018. All other aspects of the 2018 are better. Thus, be sure to get the latest MacBook Pro with the new-old style keyboard. My opinion.
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Re: Time to replace Macbook Pro?

Post by dualstow » Mon Apr 13, 2020 5:49 pm

WiseOne wrote:
Mon Apr 13, 2020 4:26 pm
why is buying used every 1-2 years better than buying new every 7 years? Curious.
It’s not better for me. In fact, I am more like Dieter in that I buy brand new and make it last. I’m on my only second Mac mini, having started in 2009, and actually the first one still works.

For the guy I know, I assume it’s a way to keep getting new hardware without paying for brand new hardware (Macbooks, specifically). I’m sure there is a third kind of person out there, lots of them, who both buy used and make it last.

Apple hardware seems so sturdy to me, perfect for the secondary market. On the other hand, planned obsolescence in the software... And as Dieter mentioned, you can’t really upgrade anymore, not easily.

I had my Mac mini souped up by a shop. They installed an SSD and extra RAM for me. Now the RAM is soldered in by Apple. Not cool.
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Re: Time to replace Macbook Pro?

Post by jhogue » Mon Apr 13, 2020 6:00 pm

This discussion has been very helpful.

My 2010 MacBook Pro should have been turned out to pasture a long time ago.

Any opinions on where to shop? Apple? Best Buy? Some place else?
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Re: Time to replace Macbook Pro?

Post by vnatale » Mon Apr 13, 2020 6:20 pm

Dieter wrote:
Mon Apr 13, 2020 4:13 pm
I tend to like buying new and keep as long as can. Although I also consider Apple refurbished.
I highly second the "Apple refurbished"!

When I bought my first iPad in 2012 I did not want to pay full price for a new one. I bought an "Apple refurbished" one. And, I considered it a superior purchase to the new.

The refurbished one came with a new screen and new battery and in a new box and with the same one year warranty. If I did not know it'd been refurbished it would have appeared to me to have been a new unit.

I forget what I saved. Maybe 15% from the new price?

But here is what I really valued. My assumption is that on new units of anything there is just a sampling of all the new units produced. Your new one may have never gone through any kind of quality control. On the other hand, my assumption was that EVERY refurbished unit WAS individually looked at prior to selling.

Therefore how could I pass up buying what was cheaper AND had also been more thoroughly evaluated before it had been sold?

7 1/2 years later that iPad is STILL going strong! And, it's been brought to innumerable softball games as I use it to keep score of our games.

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Re: Time to replace Macbook Pro?

Post by vnatale » Mon Apr 13, 2020 6:21 pm

https://www.apple.com/shop/refurbished? ... --product-

Guaranteed Apple quality.
Like new products backed by a one-year warranty and the Apple Certified Refurbished promise.
Above provided by: Vinny, who always says: "I only regret that I have but one lap to give to my cats." AND "I'm a more-is-more person."
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Re: Time to replace Macbook Pro?

Post by Dieter » Mon Apr 13, 2020 6:22 pm

jhogue wrote:
Mon Apr 13, 2020 6:00 pm
This discussion has been very helpful.

My 2010 MacBook Pro should have been turned out to pasture a long time ago.

Any opinions on where to shop? Apple? Best Buy? Some place else?
Partly depends on deals and if you quality for any special discounts.

In the past, I've bought directly from Apple (online and in store, which obviously isn't an option right now, and that I think was for phone for a kid).

As well as Other World Computer (OWC), which is where I would get my after market RAM and SSDs (internal and external) -- https://eshop.macsales.com

Amazon as last resort.
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Re: Time to replace Macbook Pro?

Post by Mountaineer » Mon Apr 13, 2020 7:04 pm

Dieter wrote:
Mon Apr 13, 2020 6:22 pm
jhogue wrote:
Mon Apr 13, 2020 6:00 pm
This discussion has been very helpful.

My 2010 MacBook Pro should have been turned out to pasture a long time ago.

Any opinions on where to shop? Apple? Best Buy? Some place else?
Partly depends on deals and if you quality for any special discounts.

In the past, I've bought directly from Apple (online and in store, which obviously isn't an option right now, and that I think was for phone for a kid).

As well as Other World Computer (OWC), which is where I would get my after market RAM and SSDs (internal and external) -- https://eshop.macsales.com

Amazon as last resort.
+1
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Re: Time to replace Macbook Pro?

Post by CT-Scott » Mon Apr 13, 2020 7:08 pm

I'm normally a big fan of buying from Apple's refurbished store. The products look good-as-new (I wouldn't be surprised if they were new units that they sell at a discount...at the very least, they appear to be returns where they completely replace the outer shell, because I've never seen *ANY* cosmetic flaws with any of their refurbs). And you still get the full warranty. *BUT* I wouldn't recommend a refurb Apple MacBook now, because those will all (most likely) have the Butterfly-style keyboard.

When buying new, if you qualify for Apple's education discount, that's not bad, but you'll pay sales tax. It can sometimes be a little better deal to find something from Adorama when they're having a sale, as they don't charge sales tax.

As far as frequent upgrading goes...if you have a "lease" mentality, you wouldn't do badly by purchasing a brand new Apple MacBook in one of their base configurations (no upgrades) and then trading it in to Apple after 2 years, where they'll give you a decent trade-in value and you won't have to deal with selling to strangers.
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Re: Time to replace Macbook Pro?

Post by Dieter » Mon Apr 13, 2020 7:34 pm

I've been able to time my own larger purchases around deal times -- Black Friday had historically been one of the few times to get direct deals on Apple products.
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Re: Time to replace Macbook Pro?

Post by drumminj » Mon Apr 13, 2020 9:51 pm

I've bought my past few MBP's used off Craigslist. A 2-3 year old model has worked well for me in the past, but I doubt the CL market is that great these days :)

I've been a mac person for....almost 20 years now? But my girlfriend has a SurfaceBook that I've been intrigued by. The touch screen and "detachability" seem like nice features. I've not priced one however.

Sounds like Apple refurb is the way to go if you're looking to stick with a mac. My 2015 13" MBP is still working fine for me, but I suspect I'll be in your position soon...
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Re: Time to replace Macbook Pro?

Post by europeanwizard » Tue Apr 14, 2020 2:12 am

Dieter wrote:
Mon Apr 13, 2020 4:13 pm
If Mac, I'd steer clear of the 13" MacBook Pro until updated with a better Keyboard (rumors say this year soonish).
(no direct experience, but LOTS of online complaints about the keyboard.
I do have experience with those keyboards, and I can tell you: it's going to annoy you. If you are going to buy now, get the 16". If you really want the 13", do wait for the new keyboard. Or simply get the new 2020 MacBook Air, which has been out for barely a couple of weeks and has the good keyboard.
https://www.macrumors.com/2020/03/18/20 ... announced/

As an aside, are you making backups regularly? That 2013 is going to croak sooner or later.
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Re: Time to replace Macbook Pro?

Post by WiseOne » Tue Apr 14, 2020 9:09 am

I hear you guys loud and clear on the keyboard! That is a big deal, and I've heard about the keyboard issues before. I'm going to limp along with this computer until the stores reopen and the 2020 Macbook comes out, so I can test out the keyboard in person.

I would really prefer the Pro to the Air, because of upgradeability and performance. There are Matlab/data crunching tasks that I'd rather do on the laptop than the remote server. But then, it's hard to upgrade any Mac product now. The issue with the battery replacement on this machine is that it is GLUED in and you have to break it out. Sounds like you only do it if you're prepared to deal with completely breaking the machine. Apples are otherwise great for longevity. I've had Windows laptops in the past and something expensive always breaks by the 3 year mark. And it always happens when you're at a conference or something, where it's a disaster rather than an annoyance.

Don't worry wizard, all my data are safely on Dropbox. BTW how many of you rely on SmartSync? It makes it possible to have a smaller hard drive, since you only pull files from the cloud when you need them. It runs seamlessly and it's pretty cool, except that the download delay can be a little irritating.
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Re: Time to replace Macbook Pro?

Post by WiseOne » Tue Apr 14, 2020 9:12 am

Also thanks for the Adorama link! I'm still better off with the Apple store, since the university discount more than covers the sales tax and I can upgrade at will. But that site is good to know about.
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Re: Time to replace Macbook Pro?

Post by Mark Leavy » Tue Apr 14, 2020 9:58 am

WiseOne wrote:
Tue Apr 14, 2020 9:09 am
There are Matlab/data crunching tasks that I'd rather do on the laptop than the remote server.
Matlab makes my heart go pitter-patter. And madame Curie. Sigh.
And my current mac has the crappy keyboard. I can't wait to ditch it.
Let us know what you end up with.
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Re: Time to replace Macbook Pro?

Post by dualstow » Tue Apr 14, 2020 11:34 am

CT-Scott wrote:
Mon Apr 13, 2020 7:08 pm
...
As far as frequent upgrading goes...if you have a "lease" mentality, you wouldn't do badly by purchasing a brand new Apple MacBook in one of their base configurations (no upgrades) and then trading it in to Apple after 2 years, where they'll give you a decent trade-in value and you won't have to deal with selling to strangers.
I just want to add that the trade-in value is not as decent as it used to be. They quietly lowered it in '19. But still, better than nothing.
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Re: Time to replace Macbook Pro?

Post by Xan » Tue Apr 14, 2020 11:39 am

Soldered RAM should be an absolute non-starter. Do they have any offerings without it?
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Re: Time to replace Macbook Pro?

Post by CT-Scott » Tue Apr 14, 2020 11:48 am

Xan wrote:
Tue Apr 14, 2020 11:39 am
Soldered RAM should be an absolute non-starter. Do they have any offerings without it?
Not for laptops, only their desktop computers.
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Re: Time to replace Macbook Pro?

Post by dualstow » Tue Apr 14, 2020 11:56 am

dualstow wrote:
Mon Apr 13, 2020 5:49 pm
I had my Mac mini souped up by a shop. They installed an SSD and extra RAM for me. Now the RAM is soldered in by Apple. Not cool.
Xan wrote:
Tue Apr 14, 2020 11:39 am
Soldered RAM should be an absolute non-starter. Do they have any offerings without it?
(CT-Scott answered above)

Xan, I guess that's how much I appreciate the operating system. I hate Windows, post-XP and I hate Linux even more. MacOS and late OSX before it are so stable and everything just works the way I want it to. If they also soldered in something that releases a skunk smell all day long just to torture me, I would still stick with their products. Mac mini forever.
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Re: Time to replace Macbook Pro?

Post by WiseOne » Tue Apr 14, 2020 12:24 pm

Soldered RAM and glued batteries....geez, Apple.

That removes the disadvantage that Macbook Air used to have, that you couldn't ever upgrade it. But I agree with dualstow. Windows is way too finicky and I have no patience for Linux. Mac OS has gotten more finicky and Windows-like in the post Steve Jobs era, but it is still the best operating system for people who just want to use a computer and not have go through multiple hoops every time they want to get something done.
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