Time to replace Macbook Pro?

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WiseOne
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Re: Time to replace Macbook Pro?

Post by WiseOne » Thu Apr 16, 2020 11:23 am

Ooh, that's a good tip, Xan. I destroyed the battery on a Kindle by letting it run down and not using it for several weeks.

Tip for Quicken users: if you're only interested in managing cash, check out YNAB. It does everything that Quickbooks and Quicken does and more (except reports aren't fancy), and it's cheaper. The bank important and interface are all vastly superior, and everything runs on the web so there are no portability/hardware issues to worry about.

I suspect online/cloud applications will get more common. Great antidote to the planned obsolescence issue.
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Re: Time to replace Macbook Pro?

Post by Mark Leavy » Thu Apr 16, 2020 11:52 am

Xan wrote:
Thu Apr 16, 2020 11:06 am
It has more to do with the laptop's firmware than anything else. I would hope that any OS would have the ability to fiddle with the option if it exists, but I'm not sure about anything other than Linux. Even there, it can require a manufacturer-specific tool. The Thinkpads (at least the business ones?) are pretty good about it. System76 is good about it.
Thanks Xan.
I did a bit of poking around to see if there is any setting or app that would allow me to do this on a Mac - and the answer appears to be "no". The solution on some older Macs was to put some tape over the middle sensing pins on the charging cable. Yeah. On the newer Macs with USB-C charging... not so much.
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Re: Time to replace Macbook Pro?

Post by CT-Scott » Thu Apr 16, 2020 1:30 pm

I don't think I'm following. If you want to stop the laptop from charging, you unplug it.

In the case of my MacBook Pro 16 (and presumably some others), though, I can top off the battery to 100%, leave it plugged in, and it's apparently smart enough to bypass the battery-charging circuitry in some way (presumably, as the battery falls to 99% from non-use it must trickle charge it back up to 100%). In any case, as I mentioned, if I check the System Report on my MacBook (now about 4 months old), it thinks I've only completely charged my battery from 0-100% a total of 5 times.

If anyone is bored, these Apple web pages are pretty thorough in talking about their laptops/devices and batteries, but it doesn't mention what I've just described above:
https://www.apple.com/batteries/why-lithium-ion/
(note that there are sub-pages which you can jump to via the top-right-hand links, so there's more discussed than just what's on the one web page I linked to)
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Re: Time to replace Macbook Pro?

Post by dualstow » Thu Apr 16, 2020 1:56 pm

WiseOne wrote:
Thu Apr 16, 2020 11:23 am
Ooh, that's a good tip, Xan. I destroyed the battery on a Kindle by letting it run down and not using it for several weeks.
I don’t know how old your Kindle is, but the early batteries were no match for Apple’s.

In addition to Xan’s note and the PCMag both suggesting to sip and stay in the middle %, I read somewhere that is just a good idea to “run electrons through” any device that you want to keep alive, to at least do it every thirty days. It’s very easy to lapse as older gadgets find their way into a closet or desk drawer.
RIP Marcello Gandini
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Re: Time to replace Macbook Pro?

Post by vnatale » Thu Apr 16, 2020 2:08 pm

dualstow wrote:
Thu Apr 16, 2020 1:56 pm
WiseOne wrote:
Thu Apr 16, 2020 11:23 am
Ooh, that's a good tip, Xan. I destroyed the battery on a Kindle by letting it run down and not using it for several weeks.
I don’t know how old your Kindle is, but the early batteries were no match for Apple’s.

In addition to Xan’s note and the PCMag both suggesting to sip and stay in the middle %, I read somewhere that is just a good idea to “run electrons through” any device that you want to keep alive, to at least do it every thirty days. It’s very easy to lapse as older gadgets find their way into a closet or desk drawer.
I have tons of devices that have not been plugged in for an extreme amount of months. One of the things on my list for "survival" is charging them all to full at least once a week. I'll keep you informed as to whether any of them have died through not have been touched all this time.

Vinny
Above provided by: Vinny, who always says: "I only regret that I have but one lap to give to my cats." AND "I'm a more-is-more person."
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Re: Time to replace Macbook Pro?

Post by Xan » Thu Apr 16, 2020 2:15 pm

vnatale wrote:
Thu Apr 16, 2020 2:08 pm
I have tons of devices that have not been plugged in for an extreme amount of months. One of the things on my list for "survival" is charging them all to full at least once a week. I'll keep you informed as to whether any of them have died through not have been touched all this time.
It isn't usually a matter of simply dying. The more a battery gets worn, the less time a full charge lasts. And eventually it might get to a point where it drops from 40% to 2% in no time.
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Re: Time to replace Macbook Pro?

Post by dualstow » Thu Apr 16, 2020 2:19 pm

Right.
I forgot to add, that same PCMag article says that if you’re going to replace a device in two years, you can happily ignore all of this advice.

However, this seems like the kind of crowd that would like to make things last.
RIP Marcello Gandini
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Re: Time to replace Macbook Pro?

Post by vnatale » Thu Apr 16, 2020 2:25 pm

Xan wrote:
Thu Apr 16, 2020 2:15 pm
vnatale wrote:
Thu Apr 16, 2020 2:08 pm
I have tons of devices that have not been plugged in for an extreme amount of months. One of the things on my list for "survival" is charging them all to full at least once a week. I'll keep you informed as to whether any of them have died through not have been touched all this time.
It isn't usually a matter of simply dying. The more a battery gets worn, the less time a full charge lasts. And eventually it might get to a point where it drops from 40% to 2% in no time.
I've bought many used devices from Craigslist over the last three to four years. Most of them have got little use from me. Therefore if their batteries have been laying dormant and without going though the worn down / re-charge cycles could that mean the batteries may possibly still be in fairly good condition?

Vinny
Above provided by: Vinny, who always says: "I only regret that I have but one lap to give to my cats." AND "I'm a more-is-more person."
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Re: Time to replace Macbook Pro?

Post by Mark Leavy » Thu Apr 16, 2020 2:31 pm

CT-Scott wrote:
Thu Apr 16, 2020 1:30 pm
I don't think I'm following. If you want to stop the laptop from charging, you unplug it.
The idea is to leave the laptop plugged in - with an unchanging fixed charge of 40 to 70%. That way you can use the laptop like a desktop most of the time without charging or draining the battery. Thus the battery is kept in "near new" condition for years - and is ready to deliver "like new" performance when you actually do take it on the road.
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Re: Time to replace Macbook Pro?

Post by dualstow » Thu Apr 16, 2020 4:58 pm

Just to recap a few things. When this thread forked to battery life, although it's a Macbook Pro thread title, it started with ipads and ipad minis. So, iPads:
(dual) I wish I could just bypass the battery on the ipad like you can with many laptops*. It's getting closer to always reading 10% or 100% charged, and not much in between.
(vin) I've not noticed that since the one I use at night is always plugged in thus always at 100%
(dual) Vin, you’re not supposed to plug it in all the time. Apple’s batteries are amazing, but you can still wear them out by charging them all the time.

Lots of engineers here, so tell me if I’ve been misinformed:
It’s not that something bad happens when you hit 100% and keep trying to charge. It’s that all charging ages a battery, period. So after that first full charge of a new device it’s better to take “sips” than to plug it in all night, although the latter is certainly convenient.
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
(CT-Scott) ... On my MacBook Pro 16 ... I'm not sure which other MacBooks, iPads, and iPhones may have similar circuitry now.
Ok, so now we're into laptop territory. Any post after this point may not apply to iPads.
Some people take the batteries out of laptops and use the wall outlet.
Xan seems to have found a way to keep the battery in the laptop and prevent it from charging. Not necessarily a Macbook. System 76 makes linux laptops.
(Xan) It has more to do with firmware than anything else.
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - //end recap

iPad or laptop, one thing is abundantly clear: modern batteries don't have a "memory" problem, so it's ok to sip here and there instead of discharging to 0% and charging to 100% every time, if you want to prolong the battery life. It's probably what you should do.

One more source, from just a few months ago (this is new for this thread). Regarding storage:
If you don’t plan to use your iPad for a long time (say, a few months), store it with about a 50% charge for best performance. Storing it at 100% isn’t ideal, and storing it completely dead is even worse. The best advice is to charge it to 50%, then turn the iPad completely off and store it in a cool area.
https://ipadpilotnews.com/2019/12/how-t ... rformance/
RIP Marcello Gandini
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Re: Time to replace Macbook Pro?

Post by Dieter » Thu Apr 16, 2020 5:30 pm

And just saw this.... But yeah, might be good to split out a battery life thread :)

https://www.theverge.com/2020/4/16/2122 ... percentage
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Re: Time to replace Macbook Pro?

Post by vnatale » Thu Apr 16, 2020 5:43 pm

Dieter wrote:
Thu Apr 16, 2020 5:30 pm
And just saw this.... But yeah, might be good to split out a battery life thread :)

https://www.theverge.com/2020/4/16/2122 ... percentage
Battery life has always been one of the KEY specs in all laptops. You'd think that all laptop manufacturers would have started working on this in the 90s? Am I missing something?

Vinny
Above provided by: Vinny, who always says: "I only regret that I have but one lap to give to my cats." AND "I'm a more-is-more person."
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Re: Time to replace Macbook Pro?

Post by dualstow » Thu Apr 16, 2020 7:12 pm

Dieter wrote:
Thu Apr 16, 2020 5:30 pm
And just saw this.... But yeah, might be good to split out a battery life thread :)

https://www.theverge.com/2020/4/16/2122 ... percentage
Hey, it’s written by a guy named Dieter. You just saw it or you just wrote it? ;-)
That’s a great article, btw. Looks very promising.
vnatale wrote:
Thu Apr 16, 2020 5:43 pm
Battery life has always been one of the KEY specs in all laptops. You'd think that all laptop manufacturers would have started working on this in the 90s. Am I missing something?
It’s hard.
RIP Marcello Gandini
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Re: Time to replace Macbook Pro?

Post by Mountaineer » Fri Apr 17, 2020 6:25 am

Dieter wrote:
Thu Apr 16, 2020 5:30 pm
And just saw this.... But yeah, might be good to split out a battery life thread :)

https://www.theverge.com/2020/4/16/2122 ... percentage
My iPhone has this battery management feature now (11 Pro Max).
DNA has its own language (code), and language requires intelligence. There is no known mechanism by which matter can give birth to information, let alone language. It is unreasonable to believe the world could have happened by chance.
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Re: Time to replace Macbook Pro?

Post by dualstow » Mon May 04, 2020 7:56 pm

Good news everyone

The saga of Apple’s bad butterfly MacBook keyboards is finally over
https://www.theverge.com/2020/5/4/21246 ... ple-design
RIP Marcello Gandini
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Re: Time to replace Macbook Pro?

Post by Dieter » Tue May 05, 2020 12:11 am

dualstow wrote:
Thu Apr 16, 2020 7:12 pm
Dieter wrote:
Thu Apr 16, 2020 5:30 pm
And just saw this.... But yeah, might be good to split out a battery life thread :)

https://www.theverge.com/2020/4/16/2122 ... percentage
Hey, it’s written by a guy named Dieter. You just saw it or you just wrote it? ;-)
That’s a great article, btw. Looks very promising.
vnatale wrote:
Thu Apr 16, 2020 5:43 pm
Battery life has always been one of the KEY specs in all laptops. You'd think that all laptop manufacturers would have started working on this in the 90s. Am I missing something?
It’s hard.
Nope, not written by me. :)
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Re: Time to replace Macbook Pro?

Post by Dieter » Tue May 05, 2020 12:32 am

dualstow wrote:
Mon May 04, 2020 7:56 pm
Good news everyone

The saga of Apple’s bad butterfly MacBook keyboards is finally over
https://www.theverge.com/2020/5/4/21246 ... ple-design
Huzzah! Earlier than I expected.
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Re: Time to replace Macbook Pro?

Post by WiseOne » Tue May 05, 2020 3:31 pm

Yee ha!

So - what's the consensus on picking upgrades? Option 1: get a basic configuration and plan on replacing in 4-5 years. Option 2: max out memory and cpu, and count on keeping it for 7 years or more.

I did Option 2 in 2013, and the limit I ran into is the battery - performance is otherwise fine. So I could limp along with this one until big international conferences resume, or I guess until something big and bad fails.
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Re: Time to replace Macbook Pro?

Post by gizmo_rat » Wed May 06, 2020 2:49 pm

WiseOne wrote:
Tue May 05, 2020 3:31 pm
I did Option 2 in 2013, and the limit I ran into is the battery - performance is otherwise fine.
If performance is adequate then I’d be tempted to get a decent battery replacement and give Apple a couple more years to reestablish their hardware mojo.
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Re: Time to replace Macbook Pro?

Post by CT-Scott » Wed May 06, 2020 6:53 pm

WiseOne wrote:
Tue May 05, 2020 3:31 pm
Yee ha!

So - what's the consensus on picking upgrades? Option 1: get a basic configuration and plan on replacing in 4-5 years. Option 2: max out memory and cpu, and count on keeping it for 7 years or more.

I did Option 2 in 2013, and the limit I ran into is the battery - performance is otherwise fine. So I could limp along with this one until big international conferences resume, or I guess until something big and bad fails.
I think it boils down to how much money you can afford to spend and how important a computer is to your daily life. I actually regret spending as much as I did on the MacBook Pro 16 I just bought. I bumped up the RAM (to 32GB), storage space (to 1TB), and also upgraded the GPU. But today I think I would have saved myself some money and kept the storage at 512GB and instead bought an external SSD drive for other occasional use (e.g., video editing).

I use my computer so much, that it's probably worth more to me to spend a good chunk of my monthly income on a computer than it would be to spend extra money on a nicer or 2nd vehicle, as I work from home all the time (even pre-COVID-19).

So it's tough...on the one hand, I want to upgrade some specs if I think the upgrades will make my enjoyment of it better today. But I can also see wanting to go crazy and upgrading my computer every 2-3 years (or even go crazy and upgrade every year), in which case I might also want to just plan to trade it in to Apple and not do any upgrades, because they don't give you a lot of extra value for those upgrades.
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Re: Time to replace Macbook Pro?

Post by Dieter » Wed May 06, 2020 9:07 pm

WiseOne wrote:
Tue May 05, 2020 3:31 pm
Yee ha!

So - what's the consensus on picking upgrades? Option 1: get a basic configuration and plan on replacing in 4-5 years. Option 2: max out memory and cpu, and count on keeping it for 7 years or more.

I did Option 2 in 2013, and the limit I ran into is the battery - performance is otherwise fine. So I could limp along with this one until big international conferences resume, or I guess until something big and bad fails.
I TEND to do Option 3. A "step up" configuration that I use as long as possible. But for light gone use, and last one I got asked me to upgrade RAM and HD (late 2012 mini)

However, without doing more research, this time I'd be sorely tempted to get the top/Tier 3 option to get Gen 10 (vs Gen 8) Intel inside. Especially if it were my daily workhorse.
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Re: Time to replace Macbook Pro?

Post by dualstow » Wed May 06, 2020 9:13 pm

Yeah, it's interesting that Apple may switch to the A14 (native ARM-based Apple chip produced by Taiwan Semiconductor), the chip it uses in iPhones and Ipads, instead of Intel chips, for its entry-level Macbooks.
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