Would you wear a mask?

[Xan]

The thing is that Fauci and scientists are myopic. This doesn't mean they're doing their jobs wrong. They should recommend the best thing for public health. But no one thing is the most important thing in the world. That viewpoint has to be balanced against everything else.

Just as a for instance, when one of our boys was born, the lactation consultant said "absolutely do not give your baby a bottle ever". And my wife's OB said "give the baby a bottle overnight so you can get a decent chunk of sleep".

Neither was wrong, they just have their own focus. Both were giving the best advice for the situation that was their purview. It was up to us to process both recommendations and make a final decision.

So saying "the scientists" should make the decision is, in my view, fatally wrong. They are an input, a major one. But there's a reason they're not actually in charge.

[dualstow]

I get that, I really do. The economy and other factors have to be taken into consideration. I don’t think, though, that Fauci is unaware of that.

On another personal note, I think the reason my wife and I cannot stay home as long as Vinny is mental health. (But, I’m glad you’re doing it. Bravo, Vinny). Our yard is the size of a bathroom. Going out for food one a week helps keep me sane. I primarily go to outdoor farmers markets where the food is already paid for and the risk is minimized. It’s not worth avoiding the virus if i’m going to have a mental breakdown. Yes, everything must be balanced.

Hey, I’m also going to a dentist this month.

[Kriegsspiel]

I like Heather McDonald, that's kind of an annoying article. Masks are policy in many places, not paranoia. It feels like just yesterday that Americans with masks were the ones everyone avoided. It was assumed that they were sick. Finally, finally, the culture has changed, so now that people are at least making an effort to keep their fluids to themselves, they get called paranoid? Perfect.

I think I mentioned it on here before, but I'm a big fan of how places like Japan wear masks when they're sick, as a cultural courtesy to people they encounter during the day. Watching videos from Japan on the toobz, it doesn't really look like people avoid them that much, it's kind of normal. They'd be doing interviews of a few people, and one of them is wearing a mask, no problem. I'm assuming that's the culture you said has finally changed. But again, I thought what she was calling paranoid is the belief that the people NOT wearing masks are the ones to be afraid of.

I can't get back into the article now, but the message I got from it was that we shouldn't be afraid of people not wearing masks. A culture of wearing a mask if you are sick is definitely something I'm on board with. I'm somewhat skeptical that it will catch on in America, though

Everyone's trying a little too hard to sound clever. And now, like everything else, it's getting politicized and divided that way.

It's quite 2020, isn't it?

[jalanlong]

Used to teach English, and getting by on investments these days. Again, I’m not trying to use my own choice as something to impose on everyone else. I just wish people would honor the lockdown while it lasts, like wearing a mask if the state calls for it. As opposed to I’m an anarchist, and I don’t trust the government about other things, anyway. I’m smarter than the government, so I think I’ll do what’s right for me.

This is starting to remind of the anti-vaxxer movement in more ways than one. (1) This is a lot less effective when a critical amount of people doesn’t cooperate, and (2) the reason for not cooperating is tied to nefarious ulterior motives of the government.

As for how long we’re going to self-quarantine, I just don’t know, Pug. We’ll see how it goes.

There is certainly an aspect of "don't tell me what to do" involved in the protests. But as far as "honoring the lockdown while it lasts", can you not see how people who have lost jobs and are unable to pay for shelter and food or small business owners who have lost months of income would be struggling to just "follow orders" while their life is crumbling in front of them? In certain political circles I have seen anyone in favor of reopening labelled as selfish. But to me, to demand to sit at home and force others to do the same while certain essential workers make sure your daily needs are met seems to be the height of selfishness.

[dualstow]

jalanlong, that’s why I keep repeating over and over and over again that I am not trying to force my method on anyone else. Except the mask wearing.

kriegs: yes, very 2020.

[WiseOne]

Xan, I really appreciate your posts too. There are a lot of concepts here that people are struggling to understand and your comments are super helpful. Since we on this forum are struggling with them (and IQs here on average are going to be significantly greater than 100, I suspect) just imagine how the general population and politicians are faring.

It is clear that we can't stay locked down until a vaccine is available, because that is likely to take years. Some measures, like masks, social distancing and working from home, with extra protection for vulnerable populations, are going to continue until then regardless. There's a "ramp-up" plan for lab & clinical research at my university that spells out these measures, and they're going to be similar to what everyone else is doing. Twitter for example just announced a permanent work from home plan for the majority of their employees. And doctors' office visits are going to be predominantly telemed going forward.

It comes down to finding the right balance, and society will determine that more than government will. Saying that any amount of economic sacrifice is worth it to "save one life" is just stupid. First of all, you aren't saving a life. You are delaying death, because everyone's risk of that is 100% and the question really is for how long. Second, taken to its logical conclusion that argument would have us all permanently locked inside our homes, all motorized travel banned, ski resorts closed, the NFL and Little League shut down and most college sports stopped, etc. Lots of human activities carry a risk. Where do you draw the line?

[Tortoise]

And why the F are all the government employees still getting paid?

Because the government defined most government employees as "essential." Funny how that works, isn't it?

[Tortoise]

[dualstow]

^ I hate that I can always smell cigars through my mask. What he’s exhaling, I’m breathing. Oh well. i still think it helps block water droplets coming from me, like when I’m talking to a vendor.

[pp4me]

^ I hate that I can always smell cigars through my mask. What he’s exhaling, I’m breathing. Oh well. i still think it helps block water droplets coming from me, like when I’m talking to a vendor.

If I go to the store and my mask saves me from directly inhaling the coronavirus where is the virus now? Did it fall to the ground or get stuck in my mask? I leave my mask in the car after I use it thinking that the Florida heat which has to get well over 100 degrees in the car this time of year will kill it but I don't know that for sure.

I read some kind of study they did with re-usable grocery bags in the transmission of the Norovirus and they found that those bags were complicit in spreading the virus. So why wouldn't it be the same or worse with masks if you don't use them properly?

[vnatale]

^ I hate that I can always smell cigars through my mask. What he’s exhaling, I’m breathing. Oh well. i still think it helps block water droplets coming from me, like when I’m talking to a vendor.

If I go to the store and my mask saves me from directly inhaling the coronavirus where is the virus now? Did it fall to the ground or get stuck in my mask? I leave my mask in the car after I use it thinking that the Florida heat which has to get well over 100 degrees in the car this time of year will kill it but I don't know that for sure.

I read some kind of study they did with re-usable grocery bags in the transmission of the Norovirus and they found that those bags were complicit in spreading the virus. So why wouldn't it be the same or worse with masks if you don't use them properly?

That goes counter to what I'd heard the doctor say.....that there has not been one documented case of anyone catching virus via a surface, which I assume a bag would be considered being?

Vinny

[pp4me]

^ I hate that I can always smell cigars through my mask. What he’s exhaling, I’m breathing. Oh well. i still think it helps block water droplets coming from me, like when I’m talking to a vendor.

If I go to the store and my mask saves me from directly inhaling the coronavirus where is the virus now? Did it fall to the ground or get stuck in my mask? I leave my mask in the car after I use it thinking that the Florida heat which has to get well over 100 degrees in the car this time of year will kill it but I don't know that for sure.

I read some kind of study they did with re-usable grocery bags in the transmission of the Norovirus and they found that those bags were complicit in spreading the virus. So why wouldn't it be the same or worse with masks if you don't use them properly?

That goes counter to what I'd heard the doctor say.....that there has not been one documented case of anyone catching virus via a surface, which I assume a bag would be considered being?

Vinny

How do they know with any degree of accuracy where someone caught the virus? With all the statistics being assembled on "cases", do they even ask questions about where they might have gotten it? Haven't been tested myself but I'm guessing not.

[Tortoise]

If the virus generally isn’t transmitted via surfaces, that would seem to imply that the amount of virus in saliva droplets from a person’s mouth is negligible. But that would invalidate the main premise of wearing masks to prevent the spread of SARS-CoV-2.

What a confusing world we currently live in. <shrug>

[dualstow]

If the virus generally isn’t transmitted via surfaces, that would seem to imply that the amount of virus in saliva droplets from a person’s mouth is negligible.
...

why?

[vnatale]

If the virus generally isn’t transmitted via surfaces, that would seem to imply that the amount of virus in saliva droplets from a person’s mouth is negligible. But that would invalidate the main premise of wearing masks to prevent the spread of SARS-CoV-2.

What a confusing world we currently live in. <shrug>

Is that what it is implying?

The doctor also stated that the main determinants are the amount of dosage you are exposed to and for how long.

Therefore there is going to be negligible exposure from a surface. But if you have it and you are speaking loudly to me, constantly spewing droplets out of your mouth, the closer I am to you and the longer I am near you is going to be my ultimate cumulative exposure.

Vinny

[Tortoise]

If the virus generally isn’t transmitted via surfaces, that would seem to imply that the amount of virus in saliva droplets from a person’s mouth is negligible.
...

why?

Because if saliva droplets contained a significant amount of the virus, then presumably they could land on doorknobs and other objects that many people touch, and end up in someone’s mouth, nose, or eyes, right?

Yet the doctor that Vinnie talked to said that there are no documented cases of SARS-CoV-2 transmission via surfaces.

[vnatale]

If the virus generally isn’t transmitted via surfaces, that would seem to imply that the amount of virus in saliva droplets from a person’s mouth is negligible.
...

why?

Because if saliva droplets contained a significant amount of the virus, then presumably they could land on doorknobs and other objects that many people touch, and end up in someone’s mouth, nose, or eyes, right?

Yet the doctor that Vinnie talked to said that there are no documented cases of SARS-CoV-2 transmission via surfaces.

Aren't we looking at odds?

What are the odds of significant amount of virus landing on a surface? Then surviving? Then someone picking up an appreciable amount of virus from the surface?

Compare that to my scenario where I am 3 feet away from you, you are speaking loudly, spewing droplets all over the place, and I'm in your presence for 15 minutes. Seems like those odds are infinitesimally greater of virus being transmitted to me than via a surface?

And, I did not talk to any doctor. The doctor I was referring to was the podcast I'd (on Saturday) put in a forum post and then followed up with extensive notes from it.

Vinny

[Tortoise]

Not a bad explanation, Vinny. So transmission via surfaces may be rare because the viral load tends to be much lower than when fluids travel directly from face to face.

[vnatale]

Not a bad explanation, Vinny. So transmission via surfaces may be rare because the viral load tends to be much lower than when fluids travel directly from face to face.

That was my (accountant's) translation of putting together all I heard him say. I'd have more faith in your interpretation an an engineer than mine.

I regularly tell everyone that I'm good when it comes to what can be done while sitting in front of a computer. I'm not so good in figuring in things out that are in the physical world.

Vinny

[dualstow]

i ignored the parens at first and thought, Vinny has an accountant?

[Kriegsspiel]

I had to flip back a page, I thought this was the thread where we were talking about the parens and frens that were partying next to Corto.

[murphy_p_t]

I will wear a mask if I am forced. And then, only with objection.

I don't belong to a cult. I don't believe in superstition, nor pseudoscience.I don't want to further cult-like behavior and superstitious action, nor any other form of groupthink or virtue signaling.

I will not consent to voluntarily contributing to the orchestrated panic occurring within the country at the moment.

if I fall ill with the Wuhan cough, I will voluntarily self quarantine.

[dualstow]

I broke out the shemagh today. Weather’s not as hot as last week and it’s getting easier to breathe. i could wear the shemagh in public for the rest of my life.


#ShowerThought: are the dogs of the world getting used to masked men?

[jalanlong]

If the virus generally isn’t transmitted via surfaces, that would seem to imply that the amount of virus in saliva droplets from a person’s mouth is negligible.
...

why?

Because if saliva droplets contained a significant amount of the virus, then presumably they could land on doorknobs and other objects that many people touch, and end up in someone’s mouth, nose, or eyes, right?

Yet the doctor that Vinnie talked to said that there are no documented cases of SARS-CoV-2 transmission via surfaces.

Aren't we looking at odds?

What are the odds of significant amount of virus landing on a surface? Then surviving? Then someone picking up an appreciable amount of virus from the surface?

Compare that to my scenario where I am 3 feet away from you, you are speaking loudly, spewing droplets all over the place, and I'm in your presence for 15 minutes. Seems like those odds are infinitesimally greater of virus being transmitted to me than via a surface?

And, I did not talk to any doctor. The doctor I was referring to was the podcast I'd (on Saturday) put in a forum post and then followed up with extensive notes from it.

Vinny

So the cashier at my local gas station who hand sanitizes after touching every credit card is overdoing it?

[dualstow]

Someone is catching this virus somehow. From the majority of the forum, one would think it’s nearly impossible. And yet, the numbers continue to climb.