There's a piece in the Week entitled France: The maverick behind the chloroquine craze
It begins,
Didier Raoult has suddenly “become France’s best-known, and most controversial, doctor,” said Peter Conradi in The Times (U.K.). A microbiologist with a talent for self-promotion, Raoult ignited a global run on the antimalarial drug hydroxychloroquine in March by announcing the coronavirus “endgame” in a YouTube video.
...
and now the conspiracy:
But this being France, there’s “an anti-Semitic conspiracy theory” or two to explain the sidelining of Raoult, said Damien Leloup and Lucie Soullier in Le Monde. Some online cranks insist his breakthrough is being suppressed because chloroquine is a cheap, established drug, and so Jewish-owned Big Pharma can’t profit from it. Another theory holds that the conspirators are Jews within the French government, namely former Health Minister Agnès Buzyn and her husband, immunologist Yves Lévy. Their dastardly plot involves killing off the elderly to save on pensions. Gilbert Collard, a politician with the far-right National Rally, promoted this theory on YouTube and quickly clocked more than 250,000 views. When people are scared, they want quick answers, and they are “quick to blame” those who advocate caution.
The whole hydroxychloroquine episode is actually nothing new as far as medicine goes. Something comes up that is promising based on lab and some crappy/anecdotal/observational clinical studies, so you do a clinical trial on it - preferably more than one, so that you can show the results are reproducible. The whole reason you do clinical trials is that the early promise doesn't always pan out.
Really good example: The estrogen for menopause story. The early/observational studies all concluded that estrogen reduced rates of heart disease in peri/post menopause. So clinical trials were done - and guess what, it was found that exactly the opposite was the case. Meanwhile, doctors everywhere jumped the gun and put millions of women on estrogen as a heart disease preventative. oops.
This sounds messy but it's how science works. I had read some of the background and thought it unlikely that this drug would prove to be the savior of the epidemic, but I wholeheartedly agreed with running multiple clinical trials to find out. The whole problem here has been the media and personality reporting, which was more about grabbing for sensational headlines and self-promotion. The NY Times could have jumped on any number of luminaries who promoted Plaquenil, e.g. Dr. Oz who definitely should have known better and due to the MD attached to his name, has a lot of influence. Trump at least has the excuse that he doesn't understand how the science is supposed to work, although he should have based his opinions on his advisors (Drs. Fauci and Birx), and limited his enthusiasm to supporting clinical trials and compassionate use in the meantime.
The whole thing is obviously a Democratic plot to get Trump. I mean there is no limit to what Democrats will do to win an election or try to make a Republican president look bad. Hurricane Katrina... with a Democratic mayor in New Orleans? The stock market crash of 1929 six months after Hoover takes the presidency with a Democratic governor running New York. Coincidence? President Taft's military aide drowns on an unsinkable ship in the middle of his 1912 reelection campaign... Coincidence?
WiseOne wrote: ↑Thu Apr 09, 2020 9:41 am
...
This sounds messy but it's how science works. I had read some of the background and thought it unlikely that this drug would prove to be the savior of the epidemic, but I wholeheartedly agreed with running multiple clinical trials to find out...
Great post, WiseOne. I didn't post the research details in this thread, focusing more on the conspiracy, but I read in the piece that Raoult never used a control group and made all kinds of sloppy mistakes. Obviously, that doesn't mean the drug combo is no good. It just means he put less energy into testing than into self-promotion.
(shekels) (imageMacro caption) { It's day 8 of the MSM trying to convince Americans
that hydrochloroquine isn't as safe as dying }
Hey Shekels, I have the cure for cancer. I'm selling pot-bellied pig feces for $2.99 a pound. Don't buy it? Your choice, man, but it's safer than dying of cancer.
I suddenly understand why Pascal's Wager has fooled so many people. It's a clever false premise.
WiseOne wrote: ↑Thu Apr 09, 2020 9:41 am
...
This sounds messy but it's how science works. I had read some of the background and thought it unlikely that this drug would prove to be the savior of the epidemic, but I wholeheartedly agreed with running multiple clinical trials to find out...
Great post, WiseOne. I didn't post the research details in this thread, focusing more on the conspiracy, but I read in the piece that Raoult never used a control group and made all kinds of sloppy mistakes. Obviously, that doesn't mean the drug combo is no good. It just means he put less energy into testing than into self-promotion.
(shekels) (imageMacro caption) { It's day 8 of the MSM trying to convince Americans
that hydrochloroquine isn't as safe as dying }
Hey Shekels, I have the cure for cancer. I'm selling pot-bellied pig feces for $2.99 a pound. Don't buy it? Your choice, man, but it's safer than dying of cancer.
I suddenly understand why Pascal's Wager has fooled so many people. It's a clever false premise.
When 65 % of Doctors Start prescribing Pigs feces to their own families, then Maybe we could come to a deal.
But 2.99 seems steep right now.
But i warn you the cure for Cancer is not what you are offering. It is Dog Worm Meds..
Also Bitter Apricot Seeds.
Do ask me How I know.
shekels wrote: ↑Thu Apr 09, 2020 11:11 am
for bitter apricot seeds
G. Edward Griffin
I actually read G. Edward Griffin's book on vitamin B17 back around 2007 when I was an avid Ron Paul supporter and a lot deeper into conspiracies. After reading the book, I bought a bag of apricot seeds online and ate some everyday to stave off cancer.
They were a lot more bitter than I expected, so I lost interest after a few weeks. Still don't have cancer. Meh.
WiseOne wrote: ↑Thu Apr 09, 2020 9:41 am
The whole hydroxychloroquine episode is actually nothing new as far as medicine goes. Something comes up that is promising based on lab and some crappy/anecdotal/observational clinical studies, so you do a clinical trial on it - preferably more than one, so that you can show the results are reproducible. The whole reason you do clinical trials is that the early promise doesn't always pan out.
I agree. And there are times when taking years to run your standard testing protocol to prove or disprove efficacy of a treatment makes sense. But there are also times when it's a ridiculous bureaucratic hurdle that ignores the risk/reward tradeoffs and unnecessarily kills hundreds of thousands of people. IMO, trying an inexpensive and well-known drug in a new way (and under medical supervision) to do anything you can to stop a deadly pandemic falls into the second situation. I'm personally on team Trump on this one.
Tortoise wrote: ↑Thu Apr 09, 2020 11:16 am
...
I bought a bag of apricot seeds online and ate some everyday to stave off cancer.
They were a lot more bitter than I expected, so I lost interest after a few weeks. Still don't have cancer. Meh.
Oh sure, it was completely reasonable to allow its use in "compassionate care" situations. That is a long-established, officially recognized way to allow treatments currently being investigated to be given to patients with no other viable alternatives. It's just that you don't know whether it works, and if the patient gets better you can't prove it was due to the medication - because they might have gotten better on their own. That is in fact what the FDA did.
Also, in this case the clinical trials were fast-tracked, and the results shared ahead of peer review. It is an interesting fact that the more effective a treatment is, the fewer patients you need to enroll in the clinical trial. A perfectly adequate study would be no more than 20-30 patients per group, with one or two treatment groups (different doses) vs an untreated group. One NYC hospital can enroll that many in about an hour. It's not like drugs with miniscule benefits that don't show up for years, like statins. That's where you need thousands of subjects across multiple centers, a massive organizing effort, and armies of statisticians.
shekels wrote: ↑Thu Apr 09, 2020 11:11 am
for bitter apricot seeds
G. Edward Griffin
I actually read G. Edward Griffin's book on vitamin B17 back around 2007 when I was an avid Ron Paul supporter and a lot deeper into conspiracies. After reading the book, I bought a bag of apricot seeds online and ate some everyday to stave off cancer.
They were a lot more bitter than I expected, so I lost interest after a few weeks. Still don't have cancer. Meh.
Yes I know, They are better when taken with a handful of m%m's
I have know people with Cancer and Chemotherapy is no Fun.
You know what some of them Chemicals are?
I will tell you about someone with Breast Cancer went through a year at Chemo.
Cancer Free said the Doctor.
Started taking Apricot Seeds as a Preventive and several years later more Lumps.
Fortunately not Cancer.
So did the seeds work. I Don't know.
But if it happens again they will probably take the little cyanide seeds again.
shekels wrote: ↑Thu Apr 09, 2020 11:11 am
for bitter apricot seeds
G. Edward Griffin
I actually read G. Edward Griffin's book on vitamin B17 back around 2007 when I was an avid Ron Paul supporter and a lot deeper into conspiracies. After reading the book, I bought a bag of apricot seeds online and ate some everyday to stave off cancer.
They were a lot more bitter than I expected, so I lost interest after a few weeks. Still don't have cancer. Meh.
Have you read or seen G. Edward Griffin's views on The FED? (The Creature From Jekyll Island).
I watched several of the YouTube videos on the subject, I thought they were quite informative.
He also has some on Collectivism, Not as good IMHO.
shekels wrote: ↑Thu Apr 09, 2020 12:45 pm
Have you read or seen G. Edward Griffin's views on The FED? (The Creature From Jekyll Island).
I watched several of the YouTube videos on the subject, I thought they were quite informative.
He also has some on Collectivism, Not as good IMHO.
Yes, I actually met G. Edward Griffin in person at a talk he gave in 2007/2008 and he signed my copy of The Creature from Jekyll Island.
Tortoise wrote: ↑Thu Apr 09, 2020 11:16 am
...
I bought a bag of apricot seeds online and ate some everyday to stave off cancer.
They were a lot more bitter than I expected, so I lost interest after a few weeks. Still don't have cancer. Meh.
Cyanide
It didn’t kill me, so it must have made me stronger!
Tortoise wrote: ↑Thu Apr 09, 2020 11:16 am
...
I bought a bag of apricot seeds online and ate some everyday to stave off cancer.
They were a lot more bitter than I expected, so I lost interest after a few weeks. Still don't have cancer. Meh.
Cyanide
It didn’t kill me, so it must have made me stronger!
Because iocane comes from Australia, as everyone knows! And Australia is entirely peopled with criminals. And criminals are used to having people not trust them, as you are not trusted by me, so I can clearly not choose the wine in front of you.
shekels wrote: ↑Thu Apr 09, 2020 12:45 pm
Have you read or seen G. Edward Griffin's views on The FED? (The Creature From Jekyll Island).
I watched several of the YouTube videos on the subject, I thought they were quite informative.
He also has some on Collectivism, Not as good IMHO.
Yes, I actually met G. Edward Griffin in person at a talk he gave in 2007/2008 and he signed my copy of The Creature from Jekyll Island.
Thanks, Pugchief. That first image got me a bit worked up with just how lazy and/or intentionally deceptive the media is today. So the second was a nice chaser that made me spit out my coffee.
How do you know?
