Senators Sold Stock, Sounded No Alarms

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dualstow
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Senators Sold Stock, Sounded No Alarms

Post by dualstow » Fri Mar 20, 2020 3:01 pm

What do you make of this?

I don't have any problem with them selling their stock.
The combination of dumping stuck before the crash and simultaneously sending a message that all is well does indeed look fishy.
I could probably be persuaded either way.

https://www.thedailybeast.com/sen-kelly ... ref=scroll
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Re: Senators Sold Stock, Sounded No Alarms

Post by Smith1776 » Fri Mar 20, 2020 3:26 pm

I read in another article that they are making the case that the sales were handled by a third party without their knowledge. Interesting defense...

I can also see them making the case that they were not privy to knowledge that was specific to a given company. If a climate scientist has especially bad “inside information” concerning the latest climate models, is it insider trading for him to buy a stock based on that? I’m actually not 100% sure. That’s probably a spotty defense, but potentially something a good lawyer could seize upon.
I still find the James Rickards portfolio fascinating.
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Re: Senators Sold Stock, Sounded No Alarms

Post by Smith1776 » Fri Mar 20, 2020 3:28 pm

Also, interestingly, if she had just held the PP this never would have happened. ;D
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Re: Senators Sold Stock, Sounded No Alarms

Post by dualstow » Fri Mar 20, 2020 3:28 pm

Even though they didn't have inside info on the companies?
That's an interesting take on it. Inside info on world events.
They probably didn't hold enough shares to influence the price of the stock by selling, but from the perspective of a regular joe left holding the shares when the virus hit...

This is all aside from the question about whether or not they should have been more forthcoming to the public about the dangers ahead, after the briefing.

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Re: Senators Sold Stock, Sounded No Alarms

Post by shekels » Fri Mar 20, 2020 3:30 pm

I think there is a least a couple more who did the same thing.
I was also under the impression that insider trading is not Illegal for Congress.
I know at one time that is was a perk, did it change?
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Re: Senators Sold Stock, Sounded No Alarms

Post by dualstow » Fri Mar 20, 2020 3:31 pm

Smith1776 wrote:
Fri Mar 20, 2020 3:26 pm
I read in another article that they are making the case that the sales were handled by a third party without their knowledge. Interesting defense...
...
Yeah, it's been picked up by other news sites and reported in different ways, with updates. People wrote to the NYT about sales made by other senators, and the Times said that there wasn't anything strange about those sales. e.g. the sale of a biotech company that has actually since gone up in value; the use of a blind trust etc.
shekels wrote:
Fri Mar 20, 2020 3:30 pm
I think there is a least a couple more who did the same thing.
I was also under the impression that insider trading is not Illegal for Congress.
I know at one time that is was a perk, did it change?
You've given me something new to look up. The article I put in the OP does mention this:
Burr was one of just one of three senators who voted against legislation in 2012 banning so-called congressional insider trading.
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Re: Senators Sold Stock, Sounded No Alarms

Post by shekels » Fri Mar 20, 2020 3:34 pm

dualstow wrote:
Fri Mar 20, 2020 3:28 pm


This is all aside from the question about whether or not they should have been more forthcoming to the public about the dangers ahead, after the briefing.

--
Right, Smith! O0
Who are they going to tell without causing panic?
I don't know but for some reason everyone in CONgress is a millionaire.
Maybe they just use a Buy and Hold strategy >:D
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Re: Senators Sold Stock, Sounded No Alarms

Post by dualstow » Fri Mar 20, 2020 3:35 pm

RIP Marcello Gandini
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Re: Senators Sold Stock, Sounded No Alarms

Post by vnatale » Fri Mar 20, 2020 3:49 pm

MangoMan wrote:
Fri Mar 20, 2020 3:13 pm
If you ask me, it would constitute insider trading.
Until recently they WERE permitted to do this type of insider trading based upon the information only they knew.

No surprise given that they generally exempt themselves from many of the laws that apply to the rest of us.

Vinny
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Re: Senators Sold Stock, Sounded No Alarms

Post by Smith1776 » Fri Mar 20, 2020 3:49 pm

Thanks for the link, dualstow. Time to read up.
I still find the James Rickards portfolio fascinating.
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Re: Senators Sold Stock, Sounded No Alarms

Post by vnatale » Fri Mar 20, 2020 3:50 pm

shekels wrote:
Fri Mar 20, 2020 3:30 pm
I think there is a least a couple more who did the same thing.
I was also under the impression that insider trading is not Illegal for Congress.
I know at one time that is was a perk, did it change?
You are correct. But it did change some time in the last ten years or so.

VInny
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Re: Senators Sold Stock, Sounded No Alarms

Post by pmward » Fri Mar 20, 2020 5:04 pm

To be fair here... everyone had access to the data about the virus well in advance. Everyone had the same opportunity to act on that info and derisk before the crash.
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Re: Senators Sold Stock, Sounded No Alarms

Post by Xan » Fri Mar 20, 2020 5:20 pm

Insider trading is when somebody on the inside of a company has some inside-the-company knowledge about the stock and trades based on it.

Regardless of how unseemly this is, it isn't insider trading. Maybe it's something else that's illegal.
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Re: Senators Sold Stock, Sounded No Alarms

Post by vnatale » Fri Mar 20, 2020 5:37 pm

Xan wrote:
Fri Mar 20, 2020 5:20 pm
Insider trading is when somebody on the inside of a company has some inside-the-company knowledge about the stock and trades based on it.

Regardless of how unseemly this is, it isn't insider trading. Maybe it's something else that's illegal.
Once it was revealed what all the Congressional scoundrels were routinely and regularly doing, i.e., maybe not actions that fulfilled all the definitions of "insider trading" but with the same results, Congress quickly realized that they had to bar these actions. Happened nearly ten years ago.

https://represent.us/action/insider-trading/

Vinny
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Re: Senators Sold Stock, Sounded No Alarms

Post by dualstow » Fri Mar 20, 2020 5:42 pm

Yes, Vinny, see my link on page 1.
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Re: Senators Sold Stock, Sounded No Alarms

Post by vnatale » Fri Mar 20, 2020 5:57 pm

dualstow wrote:
Fri Mar 20, 2020 5:42 pm
Yes, Vinny, see my link on page 1.
Don't see it here after I quickly scanned the article you provided there.

-----------------
I don't have any problem with them selling their stock.
The combination of dumping stuck before the crash and simultaneously sending a message that all is well does indeed look fishy.
I could probably be persuaded either way.

https://www.thedailybeast.com/sen-kelly ... ref=scroll
-----------------

Vinny
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Re: Senators Sold Stock, Sounded No Alarms

Post by dualstow » Fri Mar 20, 2020 6:13 pm

It was just a link to the wiki page on the STOCK Act of 2012.
A one-line post.
—-
My beloved Mark Shields commented on this topic on Newshour. With some careful contingencies, he said that this was “unacceptable”, “blood money” and “something that should be investigated.’
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Re: Senators Sold Stock, Sounded No Alarms

Post by Dieter » Fri Mar 20, 2020 6:19 pm

pmward wrote:
Fri Mar 20, 2020 5:04 pm
To be fair here... everyone had access to the data about the virus well in advance. Everyone had the same opportunity to act on that info and derisk before the crash.
Classified briefing to senator: it's gonna suck

Senator to public: nothing to worry about

Senator to business leaders: prepare for the worst
(I think there was article like this; North Carolina senator?)

Business leaders to trustee (or Senator to aid to trustee): SELL

AFAIK, no proof.

But it sure has the appearance of impropriety.
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Re: Senators Sold Stock, Sounded No Alarms

Post by pmward » Fri Mar 20, 2020 6:35 pm

Dieter wrote:
Fri Mar 20, 2020 6:19 pm
pmward wrote:
Fri Mar 20, 2020 5:04 pm
To be fair here... everyone had access to the data about the virus well in advance. Everyone had the same opportunity to act on that info and derisk before the crash.
Classified briefing to senator: it's gonna suck

Senator to public: nothing to worry about

Senator to business leaders: prepare for the worst
(I think there was article like this; North Carolina senator?)

Business leaders to trustee (or Senator to aid to trustee): SELL

AFAIK, no proof.

But it sure has the appearance of impropriety.
The data that it was going to suck was public though. I was listening to a Podcast back in mid January that predicted this exact scenario. I wish in hindsight I would have acted more on that... but oh well. The data was there for all to see well in advance. It was all over the news, but the stock market kept powering higher like nothing was wrong.
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Re: Senators Sold Stock, Sounded No Alarms

Post by Smith1776 » Fri Mar 20, 2020 6:46 pm

The shit thing about the law is that if you do something illegal without even knowing it's illegal, that does not give you a valid defense.

It's super scary. Just so scary. There are so many laws, and the legal code gets more stacked every year.

It's one of my biggest fears surrounding, say, starting a business. There's just so many ways to get totally f@#$ed over, even without any kind of malicious intent.

Not saying that's the case here with the Senator in question, but just thought it was a valid point worth mentioning.
I still find the James Rickards portfolio fascinating.
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Re: Senators Sold Stock, Sounded No Alarms

Post by dualstow » Fri Mar 20, 2020 7:12 pm

Borowitz’ take on it:

Richard Burr Demands Assurance That Senators Working from Home Will Still Get Stock Tips

https://www.newyorker.com/?source=EDT_N ... Y_Borowitz
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Re: Senators Sold Stock, Sounded No Alarms

Post by vnatale » Fri Mar 20, 2020 7:54 pm

dualstow wrote:
Fri Mar 20, 2020 6:13 pm
It was just a link to the wiki page on the STOCK Act of 2012.
A one-line post.
—-
My beloved Mark Shields commented on this topic on Newshour. With some careful contingencies, he said that this was “unacceptable”, “blood money” and “something that should be investigated.’
Now I see it. But looking at it again I can see that without you having provided any context (i.e., quoting something so I could see what it was in response to) I can see why I just looked at it and moved on to the next post.

Sometimes if I'm reading the newest post that could be my first one I'm seeing and with what you had there was no context.

Vinny
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Re: Senators Sold Stock, Sounded No Alarms

Post by Kriegsspiel » Tue Mar 24, 2020 8:36 am

Senate Democrats blocked the first coronavirus bill**. Look what they're putting in their version:

Image

Image

Image

Image

Tucker Carlson is on it.

Politics continues to disgust me.

** If anyone is aware of stupid stuff in the first one, plz post it.
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Re: Senators Sold Stock, Sounded No Alarms

Post by Cortopassi » Tue Mar 24, 2020 8:53 am

Why they are doing this is just flat out stupid. This bill should be like 5-10 pages long. Substituting one ideology for another.
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Re: Senators Sold Stock, Sounded No Alarms

Post by Kriegsspiel » Tue Mar 24, 2020 9:24 am

I flew through the Republican one, which I found here. It was long as hell, but covered a lot of different aspects of what they wanted done to fight the coronavirus and its economic damage to companies (via loans and taxes)** and people (helicopter money). They wanted to give a handout to fucking UNIVERSITIES, for fucks' sake, which I think it totally idiotic. (colleges refused to refund students for room and board and campus-related stuff which they were no longer using, or to lower tuition, or anything, really.). They're doing special things for women and minority-owned businesses, and have a weirdly long section on menstruation (yes, really), but... fuck it. Absolutely nothing indicating that Republicans were trying to sneak shit past Democrats, like making abortion illegal or requiring every citizen to buy a gun.

That one was 247 pages long. The Democrat's new one is more than 1,400 pages long. I haven't gone through it yet, I'm assuming there is more insanity than we've seen so far.
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