Coronavirus General Discussion

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l82start
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Re: Coronavirus General Discussion

Post by l82start » Fri Jan 15, 2021 2:40 pm

vnatale wrote:
Fri Jan 15, 2021 2:32 pm
l82start wrote:
Fri Jan 15, 2021 1:56 pm
vnatale wrote:
Fri Jan 15, 2021 1:45 pm


Finally, thanks for enlightening me with the above. Do you have any problems with the ultimate goals of The Great Reset? Do the conspiracy theorists? Or, is it their never ending paranoia regarding the methods that MAY be used to get to those goals?
if you want to debate or discuss with people in good faith, you might stop using the pejorative "conspiracy theorist", all you are doing is showing people that you have labeled their opinions and dismissed them without thought...
no point in replying to that...
Is that in any way similar to others using the pejorative...."liberals"..."The left"...."The Leftists"?

I don't dismiss anyone's opinions without thought. However, when I read some of the opinions expressed I have to classify some of them as belonging to the "conspiracy theorist" category.
but liberalism the left and leftists are great! and correct about everything, how can accurately describing them as such be a pejorative ;) ?
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Re: Coronavirus General Discussion

Post by Cortopassi » Fri Jan 15, 2021 2:51 pm

On the face of it the goals stated by Schwab seem perfectly honorable.

But I am far more left leaning than most here.

I assume many reading what he writes immediately scream socialism.

And I would have to respond, ok, sure, why not? We already do it with so many things, to questionable results sometimes, I’ll give you that. But as population grows and jobs shrink due to automation, what are the great number of poorly employed or unemployed going to do? Seems a UBI is likely to be in order, at a minimum.

Anyway don’t flame me for this, I know this is political, and in the Covid discussion but I didn’t start it!
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Re: Coronavirus General Discussion

Post by pugchief » Fri Jan 15, 2021 3:52 pm

Cortopassi wrote:
Fri Jan 15, 2021 2:51 pm
On the face of it the goals stated by Schwab seem perfectly honorable.

But I am far more left leaning than most here.

I assume many reading what he writes immediately scream socialism.

And I would have to respond, ok, sure, why not? We already do it with so many things, to questionable results sometimes, I’ll give you that. But as population grows and jobs shrink due to automation, what are the great number of poorly employed or unemployed going to do? Seems a UBI is likely to be in order, at a minimum.

Anyway don’t flame me for this, I know this is political, and in the Covid discussion but I didn’t start it!
How about bc the problems that they aim to fix are more perceived than real?
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Re: Coronavirus General Discussion

Post by Maddy » Fri Jan 15, 2021 4:08 pm

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Re: Coronavirus General Discussion

Post by Tortoise » Fri Jan 15, 2021 4:20 pm

vnatale wrote:
Fri Jan 15, 2021 1:45 pm
His name [Klaus Schwab] is thrown around like whatever he has to say has the same impact as when someone far more highly known has to say something.
I didn't recognize his name, either, but when I googled it, I discovered that he's the founder and executive chairman of the World Economic Forum -- an organization whose name I do recognize.

It's not an organization whose name most people would recognize, but it's one of the handful of international groups that has periodic gatherings of some of the wealthiest and most powerful businessmen, politicians, academics, and celebrities in the world:
The WEF hosts an annual meeting at the end of January in Davos, a mountain resort in Graubünden, in the eastern Alps region of Switzerland. The meeting brings together some 3,000 business leaders, international political leaders, economists, celebrities and journalists for up to five days to discuss global issues, across 500 sessions.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_Economic_Forum
So it's basically the 1% of the 1% of the 1%. The elite. Another such organization is the Bilderberg Group.
vnatale wrote:
Fri Jan 15, 2021 1:45 pm
I'm sorry. If you have to do research to find out who this person is because he is so unfamiliar to most then said person is not a particularly impactful person.
It's pretty clear that the founder and executive chairman of an organization that hosts an annual meeting of a few thousand of the world's wealthiest and most powerful elites is at least somewhat impactful -- even if you and most other people don't recognize his name.
vnatale wrote:
Fri Jan 15, 2021 1:45 pm
And, course, the conspiracy theorists are always ready to jump into anything that does not meet their approval.
Aren't we all, especially on a discussion forum?
vnatale wrote:
Fri Jan 15, 2021 1:45 pm
Do you have any problems with the ultimate goals of The Great Reset?
The main problem I have with the Great Reset is that its goals are fundamentally socialist in nature. A secondary problem I have with it is that it's explicitly predicated on taking advantage of a crisis -- the Covid-19 pandemic -- to push its agenda. When I see people exploiting crises to push agendas that are harder to push during more stable times, my instinct is to be skeptical of the effort.
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Re: Coronavirus General Discussion

Post by Maddy » Fri Jan 15, 2021 4:35 pm

vnatale wrote:
Fri Jan 15, 2021 1:45 pm
His name [Klaus Schwab] is thrown around like whatever he has to say has the same impact as when someone far more highly known has to say something.
vnatale wrote:
Fri Jan 15, 2021 1:45 pm
I'm sorry. If you have to do research to find out who this person is because he is so unfamiliar to most then said person is not a particularly impactful person.
I give up.
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Re: Coronavirus General Discussion

Post by vnatale » Fri Jan 15, 2021 4:36 pm




The above is long, long, long, long, long!

Read through it at record speed.

While the author accurately quotes Schwab with liberal citations.....the authors' interpretations are not black and white interpretations. The author makes extreme interpretations to match the author's world view.

Though there is liberal citation from many of Schwab's work none of those actual Schwab writings persuaded me of these sweeping generalizations made by the author such as:


"Born in Ravensburg in 1938, Klaus Schwab is a child of Adolf Hitler’s Germany, a police-state regime built on fear and violence, on brainwashing and control, on propaganda and lies, on industrialism and eugenics, on dehumanisation and “disinfection”, on a chilling and grandiose vision of a “new order” that would last a thousand years.

Schwab seems to have dedicated his life to reinventing that nightmare and to trying to turn it into a reality not just for Germany but for the whole world.

Worse still, as his own words confirm time and time again, his technocratic fascist vision is also a twisted transhumanist one, which will merge humans with machines in “curious mixes of digital-and-analog life”, which will infect our bodies with “Smart Dust” and in which the police will apparently be able to read our brains.

And, as we will see, he and his accomplices are using the Covid-19 crisis to bypass democratic accountability, to override opposition, to accelerate their agenda and to impose it on the rest of humankind against our will in what he terms a “Great Reset“."



"The “partnerships” which the WEF creates are aimed at replacing democracy with a global leadership of hand-picked and unelected individuals whose duty is not to serve the public, but to impose the rule of the 1% on that public with as little interference from the rest of us as possible."


"Everything in this world is reduced to economic challenges, economic imperatives and economic benefits for the ruling capitalist class.

The myth of Progress has long been used by the 1% to persuade people to accept the technologies designed to exploit and control us and Schwab plays on this when he declares that “the Fourth Industrial Revolution represents a significant source of hope for continuing the climb in human development that has resulted in dramatic increases in quality of life for billions of people since 1800”. (4)"


"The truth is that this highly influential figure, at the centre of the new global order currently being established, is an out-and-out transhumanist who dreams of an end to natural healthy human life and community."



I could go on and on with the author's assertions....none of which he convicted me of the validity of any of them.

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Re: Coronavirus General Discussion

Post by vnatale » Fri Jan 15, 2021 4:38 pm

pugchief wrote:
Fri Jan 15, 2021 3:52 pm

Cortopassi wrote:
Fri Jan 15, 2021 2:51 pm

On the face of it the goals stated by Schwab seem perfectly honorable.

But I am far more left leaning than most here.

I assume many reading what he writes immediately scream socialism.

And I would have to respond, ok, sure, why not? We already do it with so many things, to questionable results sometimes, I’ll give you that. But as population grows and jobs shrink due to automation, what are the great number of poorly employed or unemployed going to do? Seems a UBI is likely to be in order, at a minimum.

Anyway don’t flame me for this, I know this is political, and in the Covid discussion but I didn’t start it!


How about bc the problems that they aim to fix are more perceived than real?


Substitute one of those named problems for "art" in the following quote and I believe it'd be a correct statement.

"“Art is in the eye of the beholder, and everyone will have their own interpretation.”"

Whether or not a problem is more perceived than real is subject to each person's interpretation.

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Re: Coronavirus General Discussion

Post by vnatale » Fri Jan 15, 2021 4:47 pm

Tortoise wrote:
Fri Jan 15, 2021 4:20 pm

vnatale wrote:
Fri Jan 15, 2021 1:45 pm

His name [Klaus Schwab] is thrown around like whatever he has to say has the same impact as when someone far more highly known has to say something.


I didn't recognize his name, either, but when I googled it, I discovered that he's the founder and executive chairman of the World Economic Forum -- an organization whose name I do recognize.

It's not an organization whose name most people would recognize, but it's one of the handful of international groups that has periodic gatherings of some of the wealthiest and most powerful businessmen, politicians, academics, and celebrities in the world:


The WEF hosts an annual meeting at the end of January in Davos, a mountain resort in Graubünden, in the eastern Alps region of Switzerland. The meeting brings together some 3,000 business leaders, international political leaders, economists, celebrities and journalists for up to five days to discuss global issues, across 500 sessions.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_Economic_Forum


So it's basically the 1% of the 1% of the 1%. The elite. Another such organization is the Bilderberg Group.


[font=][font=]What ARE the documented results of any of these meeting? How did they affect what our presidents and senators and congress people have decided to do?[/font][/font]


vnatale wrote:
Fri Jan 15, 2021 1:45 pm

I'm sorry. If you have to do research to find out who this person is because he is so unfamiliar to most then said person is not a particularly impactful person.


It's pretty clear that the founder and executive chairman of an organization that hosts an annual meeting of a few thousand of the world's wealthiest and most powerful elites is at least somewhat impactful -- even if you and most other people don't recognize his name.

Emphasis on somewhat. What is this precise somewhat? Again how much of it filters to how our country is governed and then its ultimate effect on each of us?

vnatale wrote:
Fri Jan 15, 2021 1:45 pm

And, course, the conspiracy theorists are always ready to jump into anything that does not meet their approval.


Aren't we all, especially on a discussion forum?

Some. Some more than others.

vnatale wrote:
Fri Jan 15, 2021 1:45 pm

Do you have any problems with the ultimate goals of The Great Reset?


The main problem I have with the Great Reset is that its goals are fundamentally socialist in nature. A secondary problem I have with it is that it's explicitly predicated on taking advantage of a crisis -- the Covid-19 pandemic -- to push its agenda. When I see people exploiting crises to push agendas that are harder to push during more stable times, my instinct is to be skeptical of the effort.


Define what you believe to be socialist and what is not. My street getting snow plowed in front of my house so I do not have do it myself?

Crises are the only time we get certain things done. Other times it's only constant petty squabbling with nothing getting done.
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Re: Coronavirus General Discussion

Post by vnatale » Fri Jan 15, 2021 4:54 pm



If "winteroak" appeals to you (he appears to be Paul Cudenec?)...you can get free PDFs of books written by him and others:

https://winteroak.org.uk/books/


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Re: Coronavirus General Discussion

Post by Maddy » Fri Jan 15, 2021 5:51 pm

The [European] health authority said further in its most blunt statement cautioning against a policy of a blanket promotion of the vaccine for all:

"For those who have a very short remaining life span anyway, the benefit of the vaccine may be marginal or irrelevant."
https://www.zerohedge.com/covid-19/norw ... -23-deaths

Uh, am I getting this right? The benefit of the vaccine to the vulnerable population may be "marginal or irrelevant" due to their short remaining life span--but we're turning the world upside down to keep them from being infected?
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Re: Coronavirus General Discussion

Post by vnatale » Fri Jan 15, 2021 6:01 pm

Maddy wrote:
Fri Jan 15, 2021 5:51 pm

The [European] health authority said further in its most blunt statement cautioning against a policy of a blanket promotion of the vaccine for all:

"For those who have a very short remaining life span anyway, the benefit of the vaccine may be marginal or irrelevant."


https://www.zerohedge.com/covid-19/norw ... -23-deaths

Uh, am I getting this right? The benefit of the vaccine to the vulnerable population may be "marginal or irrelevant" due to their short remaining life span--but we're turning the world upside down to keep them from being infected?


https://www.nytimes.com/2020/12/18/us/p ... ptics.html

"Mr. Trump has been quick to claim credit for the manufacturing and distribution of the vaccine. “Distribution to start immediately,” he said Friday on Twitter, a day after an F.D.A. expert advisory panel recommended approval of Moderna’s vaccine."
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