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Re: Coronavirus General Discussion

Posted: Tue Oct 27, 2020 10:43 am
by vnatale
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Re: Coronavirus General Discussion

Posted: Tue Oct 27, 2020 10:49 am
by Kriegsspiel
That tweet tells me nothing useful, and it's not even funny. At least link to a story or something bro.

Re: Coronavirus General Discussion

Posted: Tue Oct 27, 2020 10:49 am
by Xan
vnatale wrote:
Tue Oct 27, 2020 10:43 am
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Is that true or is it just how Brian Williams "remembers" it? :-)

Re: Coronavirus General Discussion

Posted: Tue Oct 27, 2020 10:59 am
by pp4me
"Covid onset diabetes" and "Covid onset lupus"?

For real?

I'm betting not but I'll leave it to the forum experts.

Re: Coronavirus General Discussion

Posted: Tue Oct 27, 2020 11:20 am
by Cortopassi
No one has answered my basic conspiracy question about the dem governors in particular. If Biden wins, does it all start magically disappearing?

Given their current postures, I think not. It would be too obvious.

So they either really believe it, or are really good liars.

The health director in IL, who puts out the numbers daily during their press conference, actually broke down at the podium last week. I do not think it was an act. I was surprised.

I totally worry about future years, when a bad flu season is upon us, do we fall into some level of lockdown mode by default?

One thing I also don't see anyone questioning -- IL in particular, why are our cases rising? Everyone, everywhere is wearing masks. So that leads me down the masks don't really do much rabbit hole. Argh!

Re: Coronavirus General Discussion

Posted: Tue Oct 27, 2020 11:32 am
by vnatale
Kriegsspiel wrote:
Tue Oct 27, 2020 10:49 am
That tweet tells me nothing useful, and it's not even funny. At least link to a story or something bro.
It was not supposed to be funny. It makes the point of those so willing to cast aside the opinions of professionals and, instead, going with those who have zero expertise. And, here is the related story for you:

https://www.tpr.org/podcast/petrie-dish ... na-berrent

Vinny

Re: Coronavirus General Discussion

Posted: Tue Oct 27, 2020 11:52 am
by pugchief
sophie wrote:
Tue Oct 27, 2020 9:33 am
pugchief wrote:
Tue Oct 27, 2020 8:26 am
If cases are rising but hospitalizations and deaths aren't, why are they freaking out? People get nasty viruses EVERY YEAR. They stay home for a few days and then get better and life returns to normal.

The "cases" that are being counted currently are in reality positive tests - which includes a fair proportion of false positives. Read this post for some eye opening information on that:

https://drmalcolmkendrick.org/2020/09/2 ... ive-tests/

And, a positive PCR test does not qualify a person as a COVID case. There must also be symptoms consistent with COVID, per the WHO and the CDC both. And, you must also have ruled out other likely possible etiologies.

Hospitalizations and deaths from respiratory illnesses always start rising around this time in the northern tier of the US at least. The real question is whether these are greater than the usual expected range. So far I'd say the answer is NO.

I really wish the media would stop their fear-mongering about COVID. If it weren't for that and the widespread PCR testing, we would have very little idea that anything out of the ordinary is going on. Take those two things away and life could well be perfectly normal right now. Elderly first cousins have died yes, but that sort of thing has always been part of life.
Thank you for that. Now I don't have to be governor of Doodleville.

But it still doesn't explain why half the country is still freaking out. Even if the MSM fuels the fire, there is more going on. Is this just all about Trump? I used to think maybe, but now I'm not so sure.

Re: Coronavirus General Discussion

Posted: Tue Oct 27, 2020 12:55 pm
by Kriegsspiel
vnatale wrote:
Tue Oct 27, 2020 11:32 am
Kriegsspiel wrote:
Tue Oct 27, 2020 10:49 am
That tweet tells me nothing useful, and it's not even funny. At least link to a story or something bro.
It was not supposed to be funny. It makes the point of those so willing to cast aside the opinions of professionals and, instead, going with those who have zero expertise.
I know, but posting a screenshot of a tweet is probably the most low-information thing you can do, very surprised it came from YOU, who's all about reading and watching videos twice to squeeze the most info out of them. Twitter is the stupidest way to put out information, the only way it's effective is when people use it to post links to some other site where they have enough room to inform you/convince you of whatever it is. Actually doing it ON twitter, like when people do those "1/x" posts where they write out an article in 57 tweets, is dumb. Man, I fucking hate twitter.

And even the point of that random dude's rant is absurd, since he seems to be replying to a tweet where a reporter is interviewing a non-expert, saying "lol at all the morons who don't listen to the experts, you should be listening to this photographer from NYC who got sick and started a club about it."

And, here is the related story for you:

https://www.tpr.org/podcast/petrie-dish ... na-berrent

Vinny
Thanks. Been seeing sporadic stories like this for a while now.

Re: Coronavirus General Discussion

Posted: Tue Oct 27, 2020 12:58 pm
by Tortoise
Regarding the question of why the Dem governors are doing this: You guys are all familiar with the phrase "drunk with power", right?

When someone is drunk, they often don't act rationally in their own best interests. What the Dem governors are doing might very well result in their citizens not reelecting them, but since they are drunk with power, I really doubt they care.

For those Dem governors, this is the most unchecked power they will ever have over millions of people. Unbelievable rush. The possibility of a second term as governor with a normal, boring, constitutional level of authority probably doesn't even compare to this high.

It seems like most of the Dem governors began their lockdowns with good intentions, honestly believing it might help. But now that we have months of evidence across the world that Covid-1984 spreads widely even under lockdowns and heavy restrictions, altruism no longer explains the governors' continued lockdowns and restrictions. What they are doing now is repeatedly taking hits from the crack pipe of raw, unchecked power, unwilling to let that high slip away.

Re: Coronavirus General Discussion

Posted: Tue Oct 27, 2020 1:08 pm
by pugchief
Tortoise wrote:
Tue Oct 27, 2020 12:58 pm
Regarding the question of why the Dem governors are doing this: You guys are all familiar with the phrase "drunk with power", right?

When someone is drunk, they often don't act rationally in their own best interests. What the Dem governors are doing might very well result in their citizens not reelecting them, but since they are drunk with power, I really doubt they care.

For those Dem governors, this is the most unchecked power they will ever have over millions of people. Unbelievable rush. The possibility of a second term as governor with a normal, boring, constitutional level of authority probably doesn't even compare to this high.

It seems like most of the Dem governors began their lockdowns with good intentions, honestly believing it might help. But now that we have months of evidence across the world that Covid-1984 spreads widely even under lockdowns and heavy restrictions, altruism no longer explains the governors' continued lockdowns and restrictions. What they are doing now is repeatedly taking hits from the crack pipe of raw, unchecked power, unwilling to let that high slip away.
That's a potentially valid thesis. But GOP governors like power just as much as Dem ones do, so if that was the explanation, you would expect at least some of the Republican governors to be acting like this. But they aren't.

Re: Coronavirus General Discussion

Posted: Tue Oct 27, 2020 1:13 pm
by Tortoise
pugchief wrote:
Tue Oct 27, 2020 1:08 pm
That's a potentially valid thesis. But GOP governors like power just as much as Dem ones do, so if that was the explanation, you would expect at least some of the Republican governors to be acting like this. But they aren't.
I think that due to their political leanings, most of the GOP governors never took that first hit from the lockdown crack pipe. That's the difference.

If you never take that first hit, you generally don't devolve into addiction.

Re: Coronavirus General Discussion

Posted: Tue Oct 27, 2020 1:33 pm
by sophie
pugchief wrote:
Tue Oct 27, 2020 11:52 am
sophie wrote:
Tue Oct 27, 2020 9:33 am
pugchief wrote:
Tue Oct 27, 2020 8:26 am
If cases are rising but hospitalizations and deaths aren't, why are they freaking out? People get nasty viruses EVERY YEAR. They stay home for a few days and then get better and life returns to normal.

The "cases" that are being counted currently are in reality positive tests - which includes a fair proportion of false positives. Read this post for some eye opening information on that:

https://drmalcolmkendrick.org/2020/09/2 ... ive-tests/

And, a positive PCR test does not qualify a person as a COVID case. There must also be symptoms consistent with COVID, per the WHO and the CDC both. And, you must also have ruled out other likely possible etiologies.

Hospitalizations and deaths from respiratory illnesses always start rising around this time in the northern tier of the US at least. The real question is whether these are greater than the usual expected range. So far I'd say the answer is NO.

I really wish the media would stop their fear-mongering about COVID. If it weren't for that and the widespread PCR testing, we would have very little idea that anything out of the ordinary is going on. Take those two things away and life could well be perfectly normal right now. Elderly first cousins have died yes, but that sort of thing has always been part of life.
Thank you for that. Now I don't have to be governor of Doodleville.

But it still doesn't explain why half the country is still freaking out. Even if the MSM fuels the fire, there is more going on. Is this just all about Trump? I used to think maybe, but now I'm not so sure.
The media plus the lockdowns & mask mandates are enough to make people freak out. Most people believe what they read in the papers and see on TV, plain and simple. Those that aren't freaking out, of course, are the ones who do our own sanity checking and pay attention to dissenting views. Like you, me, and a few others on the forum.

I'm inclined to think it's a self-perpetuating cycle rather than a diabolical design. Journalists are freaking out just like everyone else, in fact they are probably more susceptible because their logic, science and math skills are limited, and they are much more immersed in news than the average person. So Journalist A writes an article with a tone of terror in it that causes Journalist B to freak out more. Journalist B then writes an even scarier article. Journalist A reads this, grows even more terrified, and escalates the fear factor in his/her next article. And so on. But, I'd allow that there may be an element of sticking it to Trump in all this too.