Coronavirus General Discussion

Other discussions not related to the Permanent Portfolio

Moderator: Global Moderator

User avatar
doodle
Executive Member
Executive Member
Posts: 4260
Joined: Fri Feb 11, 2011 2:17 pm

Re: Coronavirus General Discussion

Post by doodle » Tue Oct 27, 2020 8:03 am

pugchief wrote:
Tue Oct 27, 2020 7:01 am
Tortoise wrote:
Mon Oct 26, 2020 4:44 pm
Looks like IL's Gov. Pritzker has shut down indoor service in bars and restaurants in Cook County in response to rising cases. That's a bummer.

CA's Gov. Newsom is like the hipster of the tyrannical governors. He was locking shit down like this before it was cool.
gavin jb.png
Yep. Which one is cool and which one is the wannabe dork?
If people aren't already fleeing CA and IL fast enough due to high taxes and cost of living, tyranny will just help accelerate the process.
What would your response be when hospital capacity gets maxed out?
User avatar
Cortopassi
Executive Member
Executive Member
Posts: 2671
Joined: Mon Feb 24, 2014 2:28 pm
Location: Illinois

Re: Coronavirus General Discussion

Post by Cortopassi » Tue Oct 27, 2020 8:20 am

I have partial discussions about this with people at work about Pritzker.

Some givens:

--Cases are rising
--Hospitalizations are somewhat rising
--Deaths seem stable

In what universe does doing what Pritzker is doing help him? I really really want an answer to this question! If people really think it is some sort of power trip, what does it gain him? He will just continue to build up animosity and guarantee himself to be voted out of office next election?

So he's either:

1) Believing he is doing the right thing, which may, in the end prove out to be wrong or
2) Had some underlying agenda/reason that is not clear to me.
User avatar
pugchief
Executive Member
Executive Member
Posts: 4273
Joined: Tue Jun 26, 2012 2:41 pm
Location: suburbs of Chicago, IL

Re: Coronavirus General Discussion

Post by pugchief » Tue Oct 27, 2020 8:22 am

doodle wrote:
Tue Oct 27, 2020 8:03 am
pugchief wrote:
Tue Oct 27, 2020 7:01 am
Tortoise wrote:
Mon Oct 26, 2020 4:44 pm
Looks like IL's Gov. Pritzker has shut down indoor service in bars and restaurants in Cook County in response to rising cases. That's a bummer.

CA's Gov. Newsom is like the hipster of the tyrannical governors. He was locking shit down like this before it was cool.
gavin jb.png
Yep. Which one is cool and which one is the wannabe dork?
If people aren't already fleeing CA and IL fast enough due to high taxes and cost of living, tyranny will just help accelerate the process.
What would your response be when hospital capacity gets maxed out?
Where is it in danger of getting maxed out? Million$ were spent setting up makeshift hospitals in Chicago, NY and elsewhere that were never used. Again, what happened to 'flatten the curve'? We locked down for over 2 months, the curve was flattened, and again the goalposts are moved. Lockdowns don't prevent anyone from getting the virus, it just slows the process while destroying the economy in the process, particularly the livelihoods of small business owners and their employees.

Related: Ballooning wait times in Canada for six common medical procedures — including hip replacements and MRIs
Is this the type of socialized medicine you think would be so awesome for the US to embrace?
User avatar
pugchief
Executive Member
Executive Member
Posts: 4273
Joined: Tue Jun 26, 2012 2:41 pm
Location: suburbs of Chicago, IL

Re: Coronavirus General Discussion

Post by pugchief » Tue Oct 27, 2020 8:26 am

Cortopassi wrote:
Tue Oct 27, 2020 8:20 am
I have partial discussions about this with people at work about Pritzker.

Some givens:

--Cases are rising
--Hospitalizations are somewhat rising
--Deaths seem stable

In what universe does doing what Pritzker is doing help him? I really really want an answer to this question! If people really think it is some sort of power trip, what does it gain him? He will just continue to build up animosity and guarantee himself to be voted out of office next election?

So he's either:

1) Believing he is doing the right thing, which may, in the end prove out to be wrong or
2) Had some underlying agenda/reason that is not clear to me.
If cases are rising but hospitalizations and deaths aren't, why are they freaking out? People get nasty viruses EVERY YEAR. They stay home for a few days and then get better and life returns to normal.
User avatar
doodle
Executive Member
Executive Member
Posts: 4260
Joined: Fri Feb 11, 2011 2:17 pm

Re: Coronavirus General Discussion

Post by doodle » Tue Oct 27, 2020 8:31 am

pugchief wrote:
Tue Oct 27, 2020 8:26 am
Cortopassi wrote:
Tue Oct 27, 2020 8:20 am
I have partial discussions about this with people at work about Pritzker.

Some givens:

--Cases are rising
--Hospitalizations are somewhat rising
--Deaths seem stable

In what universe does doing what Pritzker is doing help him? I really really want an answer to this question! If people really think it is some sort of power trip, what does it gain him? He will just continue to build up animosity and guarantee himself to be voted out of office next election?

So he's either:

1) Believing he is doing the right thing, which may, in the end prove out to be wrong or
2) Had some underlying agenda/reason that is not clear to me.
If cases are rising but hospitalizations and deaths aren't, why are they freaking out? People get nasty viruses EVERY YEAR. They stay home for a few days and then get better and life returns to normal.
Ummm..in my state of Montana we have numerous hospitals that don't have any more inpatient beds. They are at 100% capacity and winter hasn't even started. What would you recommend governor pugchief when my dad or grandfather can't breathe?
User avatar
doodle
Executive Member
Executive Member
Posts: 4260
Joined: Fri Feb 11, 2011 2:17 pm

Re: Coronavirus General Discussion

Post by doodle » Tue Oct 27, 2020 8:35 am

Related: Ballooning wait times in Canada for six common medical procedures — including hip replacements and MRIs
Is this the type of socialized medicine you think would be so awesome for the US to embrace?
As opposed to what? Doing the procedure, person not paying for it, and socializing costs? That seems to be our strategy.

A public and private option seem like the best strategy to me. As far as I know that exists in Europe and Canada.
User avatar
doodle
Executive Member
Executive Member
Posts: 4260
Joined: Fri Feb 11, 2011 2:17 pm

Re: Coronavirus General Discussion

Post by doodle » Tue Oct 27, 2020 8:42 am

Trump makes it and this guy dies. It's a very weird virus

https://nypost.com/2020/10/19/coronavi ... covid-19/
dmitriy-stuzhuk-07.jpg
dmitriy-stuzhuk-07.jpg (94.31 KiB) Viewed 188 times
User avatar
vnatale
Executive Member
Executive Member
Posts: 5410
Joined: Fri Apr 12, 2019 8:56 pm
Location: Massachusetts
Contact:

Re: Coronavirus General Discussion

Post by vnatale » Tue Oct 27, 2020 9:10 am

doodle wrote:
Tue Oct 27, 2020 8:42 am
Trump makes it and this guy dies. It's a very weird virus

https://nypost.com/2020/10/19/coronavi ... covid-19/
dmitriy-stuzhuk-07.jpg
For certain!

However, Trump did get a lot of excellent treatment available to no one else (probably) from that part of "socialized" medicine known as Walter Reed hospital.

Vinny
"I only regret that I have but one lap to give to my cats."
User avatar
sophie
Executive Member
Executive Member
Posts: 4234
Joined: Mon Apr 23, 2012 7:15 pm

Re: Coronavirus General Discussion

Post by sophie » Tue Oct 27, 2020 9:33 am

pugchief wrote:
Tue Oct 27, 2020 8:26 am
If cases are rising but hospitalizations and deaths aren't, why are they freaking out? People get nasty viruses EVERY YEAR. They stay home for a few days and then get better and life returns to normal.

The "cases" that are being counted currently are in reality positive tests - which includes a fair proportion of false positives. Read this post for some eye opening information on that:

https://drmalcolmkendrick.org/2020/09/2 ... ive-tests/

And, a positive PCR test does not qualify a person as a COVID case. There must also be symptoms consistent with COVID, per the WHO and the CDC both. And, you must also have ruled out other likely possible etiologies.

Hospitalizations and deaths from respiratory illnesses always start rising around this time in the northern tier of the US at least. The real question is whether these are greater than the usual expected range. So far I'd say the answer is NO.

I really wish the media would stop their fear-mongering about COVID. If it weren't for that and the widespread PCR testing, we would have very little idea that anything out of the ordinary is going on. Take those two things away and life could well be perfectly normal right now. Elderly first cousins have died yes, but that sort of thing has always been part of life.
User avatar
doodle
Executive Member
Executive Member
Posts: 4260
Joined: Fri Feb 11, 2011 2:17 pm

Re: Coronavirus General Discussion

Post by doodle » Tue Oct 27, 2020 9:40 am

sophie wrote:
Tue Oct 27, 2020 9:33 am
pugchief wrote:
Tue Oct 27, 2020 8:26 am
If cases are rising but hospitalizations and deaths aren't, why are they freaking out? People get nasty viruses EVERY YEAR. They stay home for a few days and then get better and life returns to normal.

The "cases" that are being counted currently are in reality positive tests - which includes a fair proportion of false positives. Read this post for some eye opening information on that:

https://drmalcolmkendrick.org/2020/09/2 ... ive-tests/

And, a positive PCR test does not qualify a person as a COVID case. There must also be symptoms consistent with COVID, per the WHO and the CDC both. And, you must also have ruled out other likely possible etiologies.

Hospitalizations and deaths from respiratory illnesses always start rising around this time in the northern tier of the US at least. The real question is whether these are greater than the usual expected range. So far I'd say the answer is NO.

I really wish the media would stop their fear-mongering about COVID. If it weren't for that and the widespread PCR testing, we would have very little idea that anything out of the ordinary is going on. Take those two things away and life could well be perfectly normal right now. Elderly first cousins have died yes, but that sort of thing has always been part of life.
Wouldn't excess deaths be the best way to measure what is happening?

"

To be exact, the researchers reported that 299,028 more people died from Jan. 26 to Oct. 3 this year than on average during the same stretch from 2015 to 2019. Excess deaths also occurred at higher rates among Latinx, Asian, American Indian, and Black people than among white people, mirroring the disparities in official U.S. Covid-19 death counts.

Most likely, the excess deaths account for some otherwise untallied Covid-19 deaths — those who may have died without being tested or who died at home and whose deaths were not counted as caused by the coronavirus.

"
User avatar
Cortopassi
Executive Member
Executive Member
Posts: 2671
Joined: Mon Feb 24, 2014 2:28 pm
Location: Illinois

Re: Coronavirus General Discussion

Post by Cortopassi » Tue Oct 27, 2020 10:14 am

Libertarian666 wrote:
Tue Oct 27, 2020 9:56 am
Cortopassi wrote:
Tue Oct 27, 2020 8:20 am
I have partial discussions about this with people at work about Pritzker.

Some givens:

--Cases are rising
--Hospitalizations are somewhat rising
--Deaths seem stable

In what universe does doing what Pritzker is doing help him? I really really want an answer to this question! If people really think it is some sort of power trip, what does it gain him? He will just continue to build up animosity and guarantee himself to be voted out of office next election?

So he's either:

1) Believing he is doing the right thing, which may, in the end prove out to be wrong or
2) Had some underlying agenda/reason that is not clear to me.
He's on the Democrat team, which has only one objective: make sure Trump isn't re-elected.
That's why so many Democrat governors are acting against the interests of their citizenry.
I hear that from nearly 100% of my conspiracy minded friends.

Let's assume that's the case. So on Nov 4th, if Biden wins (or even Trump), are you positing that all the fear mongering suddenly lessens, and starts disappearing?

I mean, esp. if Biden wins, do you see that happening? It would be so obvious if that's the case. I don't see that happening.
User avatar
Kriegsspiel
Executive Member
Executive Member
Posts: 3317
Joined: Sun Sep 16, 2012 5:28 pm

Re: Coronavirus General Discussion

Post by Kriegsspiel » Tue Oct 27, 2020 10:37 am

sophie wrote:
Tue Oct 27, 2020 9:33 am
I really wish the media would stop their fear-mongering about COVID. If it weren't for that and the widespread PCR testing, we would have very little idea that anything out of the ordinary is going on. Take those two things away and life could well be perfectly normal right now. Elderly first cousins have died yes, but that sort of thing has always been part of life.
That's kind of what I've been wondering for a long time now. I remember back at the beginning of the year at physical therapy talking with the PT about how it was a bad flu year. Not ideal, but nothing we couldn't get through.
I hated all the things I had toiled for under the sun, because I must leave them to the one who comes after me. Who knows whether that person will be wise or foolish? Yet they will have control over all the fruit of my toil into which I have poured my effort and skill under the sun. . . Nothing is better for a man than to eat and drink and enjoy his work.
- Ecclesiastes
Post Reply