Coronavirus General Discussion

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Kriegsspiel
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Re: Coronavirus General Discussion

Post by Kriegsspiel » Fri Sep 11, 2020 5:33 pm

Cortopassi wrote:
Fri Sep 11, 2020 5:01 pm
If the (mainly left) could move away from everybody's gonna die and the (mainly right) could move away from it's a load of BS and we could meet somewhere in the middle, that would be the best case.

I am squarely in the middle on this.

--I am pissed off most schools gave up trying to open because it is overblown

--but I am also pissed off Trump has rallies in MI and elsewhere with thousands of people with no distancing and no masks while the rest of us are compelled to do both or face being fined, screamed at or expelled (if a student).
So, you're pissed that schools won't open, AND you're pissed that you're compelled to wear a mask?

Stop fighting it, Corto. [whispering] You're one of us... [/whispering]
I hated all the things I had toiled for under the sun, because I must leave them to the one who comes after me. Who knows whether that person will be wise or foolish? Yet they will have control over all the fruit of my toil into which I have poured my effort and skill under the sun. . . Nothing is better for a man than to eat and drink and enjoy his work.
- Ecclesiastes
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Re: Coronavirus General Discussion

Post by Tortoise » Fri Sep 11, 2020 5:49 pm

Cortopassi wrote:
Fri Sep 11, 2020 5:01 pm
--but I am also pissed off Trump has rallies in MI and elsewhere with thousands of people with no distancing and no masks while the rest of us are compelled to do both or face being fined, screamed at or expelled (if a student).
Funny thing about that. Remember that recent Trump rally in North Carolina where supposedly almost nobody in the audience was wearing a mask? I recall you posted about it in a different thread. Well, turns out The Hill sent a tweet with that accusation, but the photo they included in the tweet clearly showed that almost everyone in the audience was wearing a red MAGA mask.

As a result, their tweet was massively ratioed and The Hill subsequently deleted it. Oopsie! ;D

Here's the original tweet captured on archive.today:
https://archive.vn/HnQPh
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Re: Coronavirus General Discussion

Post by vnatale » Fri Sep 11, 2020 7:26 pm

https://www.forbes.com/sites/carolineho ... bc5719124f

"From Wall Street to the Silicon Slopes, portraits of a frozen spring through the lens of seven photographers.

America, we’ve never seen you like this before. Bustling commercial centers and corporate campuses are barren; main streets and malls are black holes. To stop the spread of infection and “flatten the curve,” nearly everything is shuttered: movie theaters and schools, factories and restaurants, mom-and-pop spots and big box chains. Only the hospitals are buzzing—and the funeral parlors.

Take a look at our empty America through the lens of some our best photographers."
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Cortopassi
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Re: Coronavirus General Discussion

Post by Cortopassi » Fri Sep 11, 2020 8:58 pm

Kriegsspiel wrote:
Fri Sep 11, 2020 5:33 pm
Stop fighting it, Corto. [whispering] You're one of us... [/whispering]
;)

I did vote for him. I liked his fuck you style as a candidate. I liked it for a while as president. I was hopeful he would become "presidential."

I know esp. that tech would call me illogical, but the novelty has worn off long ago. And it really doesn't matter here in IL who I vote for, the state will go to Biden. Thank God for that -- at least we don't get bombarded with ads like I assume all the swing states are right now.

If Trump does win, I can only hope that what tech says does happen, that it just splinters the democrats, and probably even the republicans, and maybe we'll get to some real possibilities of more than the two party system we've lived with.

How would the electoral system handle that? Doesn't seem structured for it. Two rounds?
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Re: Coronavirus General Discussion

Post by vnatale » Fri Sep 11, 2020 11:24 pm

https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2019 ... al_twitter

How Mosquitoes Changed Everything

They slaughtered our ancestors and derailed our history. And they’re not finished with us yet
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Re: Coronavirus General Discussion

Post by technovelist » Sat Sep 12, 2020 12:23 am

Cortopassi wrote:
Fri Sep 11, 2020 8:58 pm
Kriegsspiel wrote:
Fri Sep 11, 2020 5:33 pm
Stop fighting it, Corto. [whispering] You're one of us... [/whispering]
;)

I did vote for him. I liked his fuck you style as a candidate. I liked it for a while as president. I was hopeful he would become "presidential."

I know esp. that tech would call me illogical, but the novelty has worn off long ago. And it really doesn't matter here in IL who I vote for, the state will go to Biden. Thank God for that -- at least we don't get bombarded with ads like I assume all the swing states are right now.

If Trump does win, I can only hope that what tech says does happen, that it just splinters the democrats, and probably even the republicans, and maybe we'll get to some real possibilities of more than the two party system we've lived with.

How would the electoral system handle that? Doesn't seem structured for it. Two rounds?
The Constitution makes no reference to political parties, although of course the Framers knew all about them.

In this particular case, there's no need for two rounds to elect a President, regardless of the number of candidates: if no candidate gets 270 electoral votes, then the House of Representatives chooses the President from one of the top three electoral vote recipients.

So let's say there's a 269-269 tie between Trump and Biden (or someone else gets enough electoral votes to prevent either major party candidate from getting 270). Who will be President?

That will be up to the House, so you might think it would probably be Biden because there are more Democrats in the House.

But in fact that is not correct because each state delegation gets one vote. Since there are 26 state delegations that are majority Republican and 23 that are majority Democrat (one is tied), Trump would almost certainly be elected.

Not that I think this is likely, of course. The only time in history that the election went to the House after the passage of the 12th Amendment, in 1824, was due to four candidates getting electoral votes with no one candidate getting a majority of the 261 total electoral votes. The 1876 election was also contested in Congress but in a different manner because there were rival slates of electors sent by three Southern states.
Another nod to the most beautiful equation: e + 1 = 0
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Re: Coronavirus General Discussion

Post by dualstow » Sat Sep 12, 2020 6:46 am

Cortopassi wrote:
Fri Sep 11, 2020 8:58 pm
I did vote for <Donald Trump>. I liked his fuck you style as a candidate. I liked it for a while as president. I was hopeful he would become "presidential."

I know esp. that tech would call me illogical, but the novelty has worn off long ago.
...

I’m the opposite. I didn’t vote him (voted for that 3rd party joker, “What’s Aleppo?”) but I have come to accept him, to see through the bombast and realize that I am fine with many of his policies, and to despite the far Lefft.
RIP Ron Cobb (Daily Check-in Thread).
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Re: Coronavirus General Discussion

Post by I Shrugged » Sat Sep 12, 2020 9:06 am

This thread has sure had a long run. Can you folks maybe take the presidential election stuff to one of the other threads more closely aligned to that?
:)
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Re: Coronavirus General Discussion

Post by shekels » Sat Sep 12, 2020 10:37 am

Some good info,2nd wave and Casedemic.
Skip ahead if you want to see USA


https://youtu.be/8UvFhIFzaac?t=499
¯\_(ツ)_/¯
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Re: Coronavirus General Discussion

Post by sophie » Sat Sep 12, 2020 11:25 am

That is indeed an excellent video. It's well worth 37 minutes of your time.

It takes only a bit of thought to realize that the unusual way that we diagnose COVID cases, as opposed to other viruses such as the flu, is immensely important to understanding those graphs that state governments are posting to "prove" that we are still in a pandemic. This video presents a compelling case that the pandemic was over and done with in Europe and most of the US by May. What we have now is essentially an epidemic of overdiagnosis. The one thing the video doesn't mention is the over-sensitivity of PCR tests. They detect viral fragments that indicate prior exposure to the virus, whether or not you were symptomatic. It does NOT mean that you are infectious, or that you are harboring any live virus. Because the PCR tests don't report their parameters (i.e. #cycles of amplification), there's no way to judge the proportion of non-infectious cases detected.
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Re: Coronavirus General Discussion

Post by vnatale » Sat Sep 12, 2020 12:25 pm

In a matter of weeks, Covid-19 spurred seismic shifts in how we work, learn and transact, and it helped usher in a new era that is smarter and fairer.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/randalllan ... 74e73b71c1



"Capitalism, the greatest engine for prosperity and innovation ever created, was already under strain before the coronavirus pandemic. Despite a decade of impressive economic growth and job creation, a plurality of Americans still reported feeling as though the system was rigged, that hard work and playing by the rules no longer ensured success. “It is scary when you had the lowest unemployment, the lowest African American unemployment, the lowest Hispanic unemployment, the lowest women’s unemployment,” says Michael Milken, who has sat in the middle of several of these cycles, “and that’s how people felt.”


Those feelings have only accelerated this spring, particularly among the young. At the end of February, during the last week of the pre-Covid era, Forbes surveyed 1,000 American adults under age 30 about capitalism and socialism. Half approved of the former; 43% regarded the latter positively. Ten weeks, 80,000 deaths and 20 million unemployment claims later, we repeated the exercise, and those already dismal results had flipped: 47% now approve of socialism, 46% of capitalism. You can see those changing sentiments playing out in public, as ideas such as universal basic income, rent amnesties and job guarantees move rapidly from the fringe to the mainstream.

Amid the chaos and the disorienting paradigm shifts, though, something profound is also happening: The Invisible Hand is operating on itself with dispatch.

As one of the patron saints of capitalism, Joseph Schumpeter, could tell you, the creation of a new system requires the destruction of the old. So count Milton Friedman’s legacy as another coronavirus casualty. It was already on life support; even the fusty Business Roundtable declared last summer that Friedman’s shareholder-first dogma no longer held sway over its members. The funeral rites can now be witnessed at any grocery store or aboard any UPS truck, where the low-paid heroes previously termed “unskilled workers” are now known, with respect, as essential. Pity the CEO who argues for paying them as little as possible in order to protect the quarterly dividend."


"Not every barrier has an altruistic billionaire willing to ram through it, though, which helps explain why so many, especially Millennials and those in Gen Z, have soured on capitalism’s 21st-century variant. If the current system doesn’t offer them equal opportunity to succeed, promises of more equal outcomes will carry the day. For younger generations to experience America as the land of opportunity, the root inequalities need to be ripped out—now.

That starts with the education system. Getting into college once offered a ticket out, a near-sure path to the upper middle class. Compare today’s debt-laden and rightfully cynical college graduates with the returning heroes of the Greatest Generation, America’s most upwardly mobile, largely courtesy of the G.I. Bill. Service-for-college proposals suddenly abound anew, most notably in Michigan, where Governor Gretchen Whitmer has put forward a “Futures for Front-Liners” initiative that will provide a tuition-free path to a college degree or technical certificate for those who performed essential services during the pandemic.

Even without government intervention, the Invisible Hand is doing its own work. For this entire century, colleges, serving a customer base that could tap endless wells of guaranteed loans, had little incentive to mind costs. With virtual education immediately made universal, the genie is out of the bottle. “A lot of issues can be changed here,” Milken observes. “Do you really need $50,000 a year to get a quality experience?”"
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Re: Coronavirus General Discussion

Post by vnatale » Sat Sep 12, 2020 12:30 pm

The inside story behind the pandemic, the CEO and a promising, unproven treatment.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/nathanvard ... 1a88ae382e



"In the middle of March, Pfizer chief Albert Bourla beamed into a WebEx video call with the leaders of the American pharmaceutical giant’s vaccine research and manufacturing groups. The two teams had worked late into the night on a robust development plan for Pfizer’s experimental Covid-19 vaccine and told Bourla that they aimed to make it available lightning-fast. It could be ready sometime in 2021.

“Not good enough,” Bourla said. The faces of the researchers tensed up, and conscious of the Herculean effort that had taken place, Bourla made sure to thank them. But he also kept pushing. He asked if people on the call thought the virus might come back in the fall, and what they expected would happen if a vaccine were not available when a new flu season hit at the same time, an issue the federal Centers for Disease Control raised weeks later.

“Think in different terms,” Bourla told them. “Think you have an open checkbook, you don’t need to worry about such things. Think that we will do things in parallel, not sequential. Think you need to build manufacturing of a vaccine before you know what’s working. If it doesn’t, let me worry about it and we will write it off and throw it out.” "


"Bourla’s urgency was evident after a difficult weekend in February when he realized that Covid-19 was not going to be just a problem for China. On a call the following Monday morning, Bourla fired off instructions to Pfizer’s top brass. He told the science executives to make sure the company’s labs remained open, and that Pfizer needed to contribute to a medical solution to the pandemic. “If not us, then who?” Bourla said. He instructed the manufacturing group to make a list of Pfizer’s drugs—including those that treat heart failure and opportunistic bacterial infections—that would be in high demand in a pandemic and make sure they wouldn’t be hampered by production bottlenecks. He then officially informed the board that he was pivoting the company toward Covid-19.

One day in the midst of this retooling, Pfizer director Scott Gottlieb, who used run the FDA, left the company’s Manhattan headquarters, and within hours his fears were coming to pass: Reports were emerging from California indicating community spread in America. That evening Gottlieb posted a Twitter thread: A long fight could be ahead, one requiring shared sacrifice, he said—but partly because of Bourla’s efforts at Pfizer, he could also say that development of vaccines and therapeutics was already underway.

“Albert laid out early why it was so important to put up the enormous resources of Pfizer without an eye toward the business bottom line,” Gottlieb says. “Coming up with a vaccine could change the course of human history. That is literally what’s at stake, and big companies have the ability to scale up manufacturing and run big trials in a way not available to small product developers.” "
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