Coronavirus General Discussion

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Xan
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Re: Coronavirus General Discussion

Post by Xan » Fri Sep 11, 2020 11:12 am

pugchief wrote:
Fri Sep 11, 2020 10:42 am
Cortopassi wrote:
Fri Sep 11, 2020 8:21 am
FYI, I watched a stream of our local high school board meeting. During public comments, about 25 people came up from a group called Reopen D214.

The speakers were articulate and passionate and really gave it to the board about the changing metrics, the issues with remote learning for many students, the lack of socializing, etc.

They made excellent points, esp. considering that in our midst here in suburban Chicago we have all the Catholic schools at least partially in person.

It was good to hear, and hopefully it will actually produce some results.
Don't bet on it. I know lots of teachers, and they are universally against reopening. Some think it's unsafe, some like the reduced workload (same pay, why not?). Although the teacher's union here isn't as powerful as Chicago's, it's still pretty strong. I think the board will have a hard time doing anything unless the union is willing, which they aren't.
If they don't want to work, can't they all be fired and replaced?
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Re: Coronavirus General Discussion

Post by pugchief » Fri Sep 11, 2020 11:43 am

Xan wrote:
Fri Sep 11, 2020 11:12 am
pugchief wrote:
Fri Sep 11, 2020 10:42 am
Cortopassi wrote:
Fri Sep 11, 2020 8:21 am
FYI, I watched a stream of our local high school board meeting. During public comments, about 25 people came up from a group called Reopen D214.

The speakers were articulate and passionate and really gave it to the board about the changing metrics, the issues with remote learning for many students, the lack of socializing, etc.

They made excellent points, esp. considering that in our midst here in suburban Chicago we have all the Catholic schools at least partially in person.

It was good to hear, and hopefully it will actually produce some results.
Don't bet on it. I know lots of teachers, and they are universally against reopening. Some think it's unsafe, some like the reduced workload (same pay, why not?). Although the teacher's union here isn't as powerful as Chicago's, it's still pretty strong. I think the board will have a hard time doing anything unless the union is willing, which they aren't.
If they don't want to work, can't they all be fired and replaced?
Theoretically, yes. But that's an awful lot of replacements so it would be logistically difficult.
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Cortopassi
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Re: Coronavirus General Discussion

Post by Cortopassi » Fri Sep 11, 2020 11:45 am

Xan wrote:
Fri Sep 11, 2020 11:12 am
pugchief wrote:
Fri Sep 11, 2020 10:42 am
Cortopassi wrote:
Fri Sep 11, 2020 8:21 am
FYI, I watched a stream of our local high school board meeting. During public comments, about 25 people came up from a group called Reopen D214.

The speakers were articulate and passionate and really gave it to the board about the changing metrics, the issues with remote learning for many students, the lack of socializing, etc.

They made excellent points, esp. considering that in our midst here in suburban Chicago we have all the Catholic schools at least partially in person.

It was good to hear, and hopefully it will actually produce some results.
Don't bet on it. I know lots of teachers, and they are universally against reopening. Some think it's unsafe, some like the reduced workload (same pay, why not?). Although the teacher's union here isn't as powerful as Chicago's, it's still pretty strong. I think the board will have a hard time doing anything unless the union is willing, which they aren't.
If they don't want to work, can't they all be fired and replaced?
As I understand it, an informal survey shows upwards of 70% of teachers in this area want to go back to school. (I know at least 5 personally that all want to go back)

It's really hard to decipher what's going on. It truly seems a lot of this is driven by liability concerns.

As best I can tell, doing Zoom classes is not reduced workload, it puts more strain and stress on the teachers and hell, they went into this job to teach -- I would not lump them all into the slacker, cool, I get to stay at home, category.

The grade and middle school teachers actually have to show up to schools and teach from there. High school teachers have an option to do from home and about 50/50 split on teaching from home vs. going to the school.
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Re: Coronavirus General Discussion

Post by pugchief » Fri Sep 11, 2020 1:20 pm

Cortopassi wrote:
Fri Sep 11, 2020 11:45 am


As I understand it, an informal survey shows upwards of 70% of teachers in this area want to go back to school. (I know at least 5 personally that all want to go back)
Then why is the union, particularly in the city, so opposed to going back? If 70% favored return, they would just vote to return, and do so.
It's really hard to decipher what's going on. It truly seems a lot of this is driven by liability concerns.
Liability of what and to whom? The teachers aren't personally responsible if someone gets sick (viruses run rampant every year) and neither is the union.
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Re: Coronavirus General Discussion

Post by Cortopassi » Fri Sep 11, 2020 1:40 pm

pugchief wrote:
Fri Sep 11, 2020 1:20 pm

Then why is the union, particularly in the city, so opposed to going back? If 70% favored return, they would just vote to return, and do so.
As I understand the union, you cede your voting to them when you become part of it. They don't have to vote on everything. And any vote, even a majority vote, can be over-ridden by the leadership (I could be 100% wrong, this is what I was told)
pugchief wrote:
Fri Sep 11, 2020 1:20 pm
Liability of what and to whom? The teachers aren't personally responsible if someone gets sick (viruses run rampant every year) and neither is the union.
The district? Someone will find out some way to sue someone somehow! :-[
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Re: Coronavirus General Discussion

Post by pugchief » Fri Sep 11, 2020 1:50 pm

Another, excellent IMO, perspective on it:
Clay Travis wrote:Here’s Trump’s closing argument in three sentences: “We had the greatest economy in world history and then a once in a hundred years pandemic occurred. Our response wasn’t perfect, but we saved hundreds of thousands of lives, if not millions of lives, and we have now beaten the coronavirus. My administration is the best equipped to return us to the greatest economy in the world.”

Here’s Biden’s closing argument in three sentences: “Donald Trump isn’t fit to be president. He responded disastrously to the coronavirus and he’s overlooked too many Americans of all races and creeds, sowing division in his wake with his divisive commentary and failed leadership. I will restore truth, honor and decency to the White House.”

You notice anything here?

Biden’s campaign is about attacking Trump. That’s his message. So the best response from Trump is actually the country just rebounding and looking as normal as possible. Normalcy helps Trump.

Which is why Democrats are focused on keeping schools and sports closed.

This isn’t about science any longer, it’s pure politics.
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Re: Coronavirus General Discussion

Post by jalanlong » Fri Sep 11, 2020 3:05 pm

My son started back to elementary school this week as our district reopened. The rules are ridiculous. They have to wear a mask outside at recess. They cannot touch another student at recess or during gym. Gym is just dance routines so they can be apart from each other. They have to wear a mask, AND sit 6 feet apart AND have plastic shields around their desks. Even though my son is autistic I have been told that there are absolutely no exceptions to the mask rule. They must wear it all day every day. If they refuse they are sent home and enrolled in virtual schooling.

They do not leave the classroom except for recess. Lunches are brought to them. Art and music comes to them. They are quarantined to the same room all day except for recess and gym. This is his last year in elementary school. It is supposed to be the year he gets used to the concept of going to 7 different classes in middle school next year. How is he going to do that being quarantined in one classroom this year?

And remember this is Red State Texas!
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Re: Coronavirus General Discussion

Post by Cortopassi » Fri Sep 11, 2020 3:25 pm

jalanlong wrote:
Fri Sep 11, 2020 3:05 pm
My son started back to elementary school this week as our district reopened. The rules are ridiculous. They have to wear a mask outside at recess. They cannot touch another student at recess or during gym. Gym is just dance routines so they can be apart from each other. They have to wear a mask, AND sit 6 feet apart AND have plastic shields around their desks. Even though my son is autistic I have been told that there are absolutely no exceptions to the mask rule. They must wear it all day every day. If they refuse they are sent home and enrolled in virtual schooling.

They do not leave the classroom except for recess. Lunches are brought to them. Art and music comes to them. They are quarantined to the same room all day except for recess and gym. This is his last year in elementary school. It is supposed to be the year he gets used to the concept of going to 7 different classes in middle school next year. How is he going to do that being quarantined in one classroom this year?

And remember this is Red State Texas!
Interesting. My niece is an elementary teacher in Wheaton, IL, very red, one of the few districts in IL that are open. Much more "normal" rules compared to what you are seeing down there. The lack of consistency on any of this is crazy.
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Re: Coronavirus General Discussion

Post by pugchief » Fri Sep 11, 2020 3:31 pm

Cortopassi wrote:
Fri Sep 11, 2020 3:25 pm
The lack of consistency on any of this is crazy.
Doesn't that tell you something? If they were using facts and actual science to make these decisions, you would expect relative consistency across the spectrum. Instead, you see the opposite. What possible explanation other than politics could lead to this outcome?
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Re: Coronavirus General Discussion

Post by jalanlong » Fri Sep 11, 2020 3:32 pm

Cortopassi wrote:
Fri Sep 11, 2020 3:25 pm
jalanlong wrote:
Fri Sep 11, 2020 3:05 pm
My son started back to elementary school this week as our district reopened. The rules are ridiculous. They have to wear a mask outside at recess. They cannot touch another student at recess or during gym. Gym is just dance routines so they can be apart from each other. They have to wear a mask, AND sit 6 feet apart AND have plastic shields around their desks. Even though my son is autistic I have been told that there are absolutely no exceptions to the mask rule. They must wear it all day every day. If they refuse they are sent home and enrolled in virtual schooling.

They do not leave the classroom except for recess. Lunches are brought to them. Art and music comes to them. They are quarantined to the same room all day except for recess and gym. This is his last year in elementary school. It is supposed to be the year he gets used to the concept of going to 7 different classes in middle school next year. How is he going to do that being quarantined in one classroom this year?

And remember this is Red State Texas!
Interesting. My niece is an elementary teacher in Wheaton, IL, very red, one of the few districts in IL that are open. Much more "normal" rules compared to what you are seeing down there. The lack of consistency on any of this is crazy.
It is inconsistent from district to district. My mother lives 20 mins away but still in the same county. Her district has no masks outside, no plastic shields and they eat in the cafeteria. However, Dallas School District which is about 10 miles from me the other way is still closed until at least October.
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Re: Coronavirus General Discussion

Post by Cortopassi » Fri Sep 11, 2020 5:01 pm

pugchief wrote:
Fri Sep 11, 2020 3:31 pm
Cortopassi wrote:
Fri Sep 11, 2020 3:25 pm
The lack of consistency on any of this is crazy.
Doesn't that tell you something? If they were using facts and actual science to make these decisions, you would expect relative consistency across the spectrum. Instead, you see the opposite. What possible explanation other than politics could lead to this outcome?
No other answer. I completely agree.

If the (mainly left) could move away from everybody's gonna die and the (mainly right) could move away from it's a load of BS and we could meet somewhere in the middle, that would be the best case.

I am squarely in the middle on this.

--I am pissed off most schools gave up trying to open because it is overblown

--but I am also pissed off Trump has rallies in MI and elsewhere with thousands of people with no distancing and no masks while the rest of us are compelled to do both or face being fined, screamed at or expelled (if a student).
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Re: Coronavirus General Discussion

Post by technovelist » Fri Sep 11, 2020 5:29 pm

Cortopassi wrote:
Fri Sep 11, 2020 5:01 pm
pugchief wrote:
Fri Sep 11, 2020 3:31 pm
Cortopassi wrote:
Fri Sep 11, 2020 3:25 pm
The lack of consistency on any of this is crazy.
Doesn't that tell you something? If they were using facts and actual science to make these decisions, you would expect relative consistency across the spectrum. Instead, you see the opposite. What possible explanation other than politics could lead to this outcome?
No other answer. I completely agree.

If the (mainly left) could move away from everybody's gonna die and the (mainly right) could move away from it's a load of BS and we could meet somewhere in the middle, that would be the best case.

I am squarely in the middle on this.

--I am pissed off most schools gave up trying to open because it is overblown

--but I am also pissed off Trump has rallies in MI and elsewhere with thousands of people with no distancing and no masks while the rest of us are compelled to do both or face being fined, screamed at or expelled (if a student).
Political speech and peaceable assembly are protected under the 1st Amendment. Trump's rallies qualify as political speech and as peaceable assembly.

However, if you don't like the restrictions on gatherings, I suggest you should be mad at those who have imposed them.

In Michigan, that would be the Democrat governor, not Trump.

In California, it's the Democrat governor, not Trump.

In Illinois, it's the Democrat governor, not Trump.

I'm beginning to see a pattern here...
Another nod to the most beautiful equation: e + 1 = 0
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